Saints 1-2 Everton - Reaction

[Pamplemousse]

Don’t talk pony man. In our history only Lawrie & Koeman have finished above him in the league and only him, Lawrie & WGS have got us to a cup final. Whether you like it or not, with a Shiite side he was a pretty decent manager.

 

 

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Hence why I called him world class, a statement I stand by and have been proven right by.

[St.JonB]

Hence why I called him world class, a statement I stand by and have been proven right by.

 

If Puel is world class what does that make Brendan Rogers!? Leicester look like they are playing without the handbrake on since getting rid of Puel.

Also can we please stop with this “we march on” nonsense. Never has a slogan been so inappropriate for a club.

[Mr X]

Ralph clearly has given up on us & yesterday was his way of saying it, you can see it in his demeanor & lack of enthusiasm! I know the players are the root cause but he hasn't helped himself at all, he has zero tactical nous & continues to muck around with players out of position!

 

If the players can't play for him in this league what makes people think he's suddenly going to motivate them in the championship?

 

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[Charlie Wayman]

Anybody know what the attendance was yesterday, it looked pretty thin on screen. Presumably the weather kept a quite a few STs away even 'though they'd be in the official headcount.

[Charlie Wayman]

If Puel is world class what does that make Brendan Rogers!? Leicester look like they are playing without the handbrake on since getting rid of Puel.

Also can we please stop with this “we march on” nonsense. Never has a slogan been so inappropriate for a club.

 

 

Yes but they have spent well and he has a pretty decent squad to work with. Unlike us when they sold top assets they re-invested it in younger decent players unlike our previous owner. Look what happens when you have an owner who cared passionately about his club.

[Whitey Grandad]

Don’t talk pony man. In our history only Lawrie & Koeman have finished above him in the league and only him, Lawrie & WGS have got us to a cup final. Whether you like it or not, with a Shiite side he was a pretty decent manager.

 

 

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Some go on about finishing eighth but how many points did we get?

 

It was 46 points, the same as Bournemouth and one more that West Brom. 46 points is nothing special.

 

And Puel’s handling of our European campaign was abysmal.

[Whitey Grandad]

Went yesterday, yes Saints are as bad as feared. First half was poor all round , they scored after 2 unchallenged headers in our box from corner. We needed a right and left back and someone to get the ball forward from our half !

Walcott must have thought it was a training session it was so easy to go round our ‘defence’ . Second half a bit of a rally and hope with the equaliser but undone by defensive frailty , Djenepo failed to get near their man with the ball and Richardson finished well unhindered . What to do ? Back 4 with recognised full backs , a midfielder who can move the ball FORWARD and better attacking ideas , it’s no good putting through balls to Ings he hasn’t got the pace !

Full Back is a specialised position. They protect the flanks and anchor the outsides of the defensive line. We only had one for the first half and he was played on his wrong side.

 

For their second goal we had Djenepo on our left and Armstrong too far upfield on the right. They had time to pick out a cross to Richarlison who was unmarked.

 

You can’t play a game without full backs.

[Lord Duckhunter]

yes and both Branfoot and Pardew got us to cup finals

 

Dear god, we’re counting them? Only a noddy club brag about those.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

Hence why I called him world class, a statement I stand by and have been proven right by.

 

He’s not world class, he just did a decent job with average players.

 

Blaming him now for what’s going on now is just bizarre. We’ve had 3 managers since. I doubt Everton fans are blaming Roberto Martinez for their poor start to the season. We do have some weird supporters.

 

The people to blame for the mess we are in are the players & manager predominantly. The only thing relevant to the Puel era is the players who allegedly wanted him out and the club seemingly backed, are the ones letting us down. They’re going to get another manager the sack. They are a bunch of son-in-laws without any fight or desire. No leaders, no nastiness, just a bunch of fairies poncing around stealing a living. I’m starting to think I’d like Fat Sam or Roy Keane to come in and do a number on them.

 

 

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[hasper57saint]

If Puel is world class what does that make Brendan Rogers!? Leicester look like they are playing without the handbrake on since getting rid of Puel.

Also can we please stop with this “we march on” nonsense. Never has a slogan been so inappropriate for a club.

Remember that song at school 'The Grand Old Duke of York'? Well it's Changed to

That useless boss called GAO

He had a 'team' of men

He couldn't March them up the League

But he sure Marched them down again

And when they were down they were down

And further than before

The goals keep flooding in

But it's not his men who score.

I own the copyright!

[saints-til-i-die]

GK - McCarthy

DL - Bertrand

DC - Stephens

DC - Bednarek /Yoshida

DR - Cedric

CDM - Danso

CM - Slattery

CM - Armstrong

AMR - Boufal

AML - Djenepo

ST - Ings

[Shroppie]

Anybody know what the attendance was yesterday, it looked pretty thin on screen. Presumably the weather kept a quite a few STs away even 'though they'd be in the official headcount.

Officially 29000+

 

 

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[Chez]

I still can’t believe we offloaded Reed and Lemina without adding anyone in CM. Complete negligence.

 

We badly need a midfielder like Lemina with the ability to actually get about the pitch. I know things came to a head and he had to leave, but the way Saints managers have treated him, Boufal and Gambiadini in recent years is criminal. All three have had the ability we needed, but have not been trusted or shown the faith that would have IMO allowed them to blossom. Remove talent from a squad and you are left with mediocrity that doesn't have the ability to move the ball and create chances.

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

We badly need a midfielder like Lemina with the ability to actually get about the pitch. I know things came to a head and he had to leave, but the way Saints managers have treated him, Boufal and Gambiadini in recent years is criminal. All three have had the ability we needed, but have not been trusted or shown the faith that would have IMO allowed them to blossom. Remove talent from a squad and you are left with mediocrity that doesn't have the ability to move the ball and create chances.

Its the M.LeGod situation all over again!

[Chez]

Its the M.LeGod situation all over again!

 

say what?

[beatlesaint]

Dear god, we’re counting them? Only a noddy club brag about those.

 

 

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well only because you like to be so precise and are usually the first to correct anyone else.....unless as in this case it doesnt suit your argument

[saint97]

Said at 2pm yesterday it was an absolute disaster of a lineup. What was he thinking putting stu at RWB. Second goal Cedric would've tucked in if he was in that position.

 

Has to go back to a back four after the Arsenal game. Only way we'll even compete to stay up this year is with 4 points from those two games.

[shurlock]

Said at 2pm yesterday it was an absolute disaster of a lineup. What was he thinking putting stu at RWB. Second goal Cedric would've tucked in if he was in that position.

 

Has to go back to a back four after the Arsenal game. Only way we'll even compete to stay up this year is with 4 points from those two games.

 

Or play 3 at the back with Bertrand and Cedric in their correct positions. There’s little evidence that we can play consistently well with a back 4 whereas we did grind out results last season with 3CBs.

[kwsaint]

The worry is what will go with relegation. I can't see too many of the current bunch of players scrapping it out in the Championship. There is very little coming through from the academy and there are clearly major problems behind the scenes. Plus an invisible owner who has spent £200 million for the club with borrowed money and is about to see the value of his asset plummet. The hope at the beginning of the season was that Ralph would keep us up for a couple of seasons to give time to address the recruitment problems. Doesn't look like that will happen. Unfortunately I can't see this ending well. We will be lucky not to be back to League 1 in a couple of seasons time.

[ally_uk]

Armstrong at right back..... I think we knew the outcome before a ball was even kicked... Ralph needs to realize we are not Lepzig and currently do not have the talent to play similar style football..

 

Either Ralph stops being stubborn and takes it back to basics with a flat back 4 and two attackers and actually play players in correct postions. Or quite frankly he can do one...... Get Big Sam in steady the ship he might even get us midtable.....

[John Boy Saint]

The worry is what will go with relegation. I can't see too many of the current bunch of players scrapping it out in the Championship. There is very little coming through from the academy and there are clearly major problems behind the scenes. Plus an invisible owner who has spent £200 million for the club with borrowed money and is about to see the value of his asset plummet. The hope at the beginning of the season was that Ralph would keep us up for a couple of seasons to give time to address the recruitment problems. Doesn't look like that will happen. Unfortunately I can't see this ending well. We will be lucky not to be back to League 1 in a couple of seasons time.

Maybe that’s the plan - to ultimately reduce the value of the remaining 20% Gao has agreed to buy.

[Toussaint]

Whatever.

 

That’s the same lie I tell myself, but in reality, denial is the first stage of grief. It hurts quite a lot.

[saintstr1]

I don't think Ralph has a clue. I have watched Stuart Armstrong for a few years, he was great attacking midfielder for both Dundee United &Celtic. He is being destroyed at Saints. Playing him at RB is unbelievable it is like Man city putting Kevin De Bruyne at RB, Ralph needs to sort it and play 442 or 433 with proper full backs. I would suggest

McCarthy

Cedric

Stephens

Danso

Bertram

Hoijberg

Armstrong

Boufal

Djnepo

Ings

Adams

[hasper57saint]

Attacking midfielders are not right or left backs. Ralph has a very serious problem as he doesn't appear to know that. Flexibility is great when you have flexible players but we ain't got none. I just cringe when I hear the taters say 'It was on his wrong foot' My coach when I played threatened us with death by saying 'Your Mum and Dad gave you two feet. Use both or you are up the f.....g road'.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I just cringe when I hear the taters say 'It was on his wrong foot' My coach when I played threatened us with death by saying 'Your Mum and Dad gave you two feet. Use both or you are up the f.....g road'.

 

Stoichkov & Hagi were 2 of the most one footed players that have ever played, good job their coach didn’t send them up the first f......g road. Who was your coach Mike Bassett?

 

 

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[Badger]

I don't think Ralph has a clue. I have watched Stuart Armstrong for a few years, he was great attacking midfielder for both Dundee United &Celtic. He is being destroyed at Saints. Playing him at RB is unbelievable it is like Man city putting Kevin De Bruyne at RB, Ralph needs to sort it and play 442 or 433 with proper full backs. I would suggest

McCarthy

Cedric

Stephens

Danso

Bertram

Hoijberg

Armstrong

Boufal

Djnepo

Ings

Adams

 

This seems to be what we now do best, bring players in and coach them so their form and careers go on a rapid downward spiral.

 

As for the selection of full backs, that seems to be down to events, Betrand suspended, Hojberg injured (apparently), so moving Cedric to LB (I thought he'd previously played there for us although you wouldn't have thought so yesterday). Valery would have been a logical RB but has been crap this season, so JWP or Armstrong for the role.

[spyinthesky]

I was concerned at the start of the season for the following reasons.

 

1. No cover at left back after Targett sold (for a decent fee I have to say)

2. Problems at central defence, which everyone knew about, but hoped Danso would step in to fill the gap (no sign of that now)

3. Lack of mobility in midfield once it was apparent that Lemina was off and also lack of cover if Hodjberg and/or Romeu were out of the side.

4. No natural attacking left footer once we lost Tadic.

5. No aerial presence up front. Any ball in the air pumped forward is immediately returned as none of our forward players are any good in the air.

 

In addition this year our pressing style of play seems none existent and other teams (with more quality) are doing it better than we can.

Throw ins - we still cant use them to our advantage.

Free kicks/Corners - oh for some variety a la Eddie Howe's Bournemouth who seem to practice such variety in training.

[stknowle]

Hence why I called him world class, a statement I stand by and have been proven right by.

 

He really isn't and you really haven't. I doubt you'll find many Leicester fans prepared to describe him as world class. Would we have fared better over the last 2 and a bit seasons if we had stuck with him? - Possibly. Would we have all been bored to tears? - Almost certainly. Is he world class? - No.

[captainchris]

Stoichkov & Hagi were 2 of the most one footed players that have ever played, good job their coach didn’t send them up the first f......g road. Who was your coach Mike Bassett?

 

 

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I’d its you who has no idea Duckhunter... Proffessional footballers should be able to kick with both feet. That is a basic requirement.

[SNSUN]

under normal circumstances, I would call you less than a proper supporter. However, by the time we scored, I confess I was, of all things, looking at the Wikipedia page of nothing less than the extremely interesting.............Midsomer Murders!

 

I was doing a big food shop in Sainsbury's. I listened to the car radio until Davies scored early on, realised that was probably that, then decided the monthly food shop was more entertaining.

[St_Tel49]

Until January it is what it is. So where do we go from here. IMO break it all down to basics so start from scratch. Firstly identify those with character and a bit of pace. Macarthy in goal is easy. Bertrand at left back is a no brainer, Bednarak, Yoshida, Danso, Stephens, Vestergaard, two of them have got to play. Personally Valery at Right back. We need a holding midfielder not a Romeu all over the place type. Stephens maybe as he could be a defensive playmaker that can play balls over defenders out to the wings. Either Romeu or Hojbjerg could play in midfield with Armstrong. Up front three from Ings, Djenepo, Redmond, Boufal, Adams, Obafemi, Long. Maybe try Ings, Adams and Djenepo with Redmond and Boufal as alternatives.

 

I know it's clutching at straws but that gives me something like. Macarthy, Valery Bednarak Yoshida or Danso Bertrand, Stephens, Armstrong Hojbjerg or Romeu, Djenepo Adams Ings. Not ideal but a lot better than the bizarre selections lately. Danso could be an alternative to Stephens but I've not seen enough of him to form an opinion either way. Romeu isn't a holding midfielder he needs a partner because he roams around. That's not to say he couldn't discipline himself to hold. Any other suggestions. I hate what JWP does in slowing everything down. This team has to be aggressive, high tempo and get the ball up front quickly with runners from midfield getting into the box. I'd be interested in any better suggestions.

I have thought for some time that Stephens would be a better defensive midfielder than CB. He is quite good on the ball and can see a pass. He's worth a go.

[St_Tel49]

Remember that song at school 'The Grand Old Duke of York'? Well it's Changed to

That useless boss called GAO

He had a 'team' of men

He couldn't March them up the League

But he sure Marched them down again

And when they were down they were down

And further than before

The goals keep flooding in

But it's not his men who score.

I own the copyright!

 

You are welcome to it

[woodsaint]

May aswell get all the rants out before the weekends over. Two observations

 

1. The 'We March On' motto on the free scarves. Can we just bin it. Was introduced post the mass exodus of players whenever Koeman took over and held true during his tenure. However its getting embarassing because we've steadily went backwards the last 2.5 years. Delusional by the club not to recognise we arent marching on.....unless its on to the quest channel next year.

 

2. Would love to know what the most important attributes the 'black box' looks for, because leadership must have been missing from the database. Not one player in that starting lineup yesterday shows any kind of leadership qualities. JWP captain, give me a break. Before him, Hoj or Berty dont strike me as real captain material either. Would love our recruitment going forward to focus on those big characters/leaders as much as the 'unpolished' diamonds we've previously looked to get

[derry]

I've just checked the rules and Bertrand will be available for the Arsenal game provided he is fit. Yellow cards only are competition specific whilst Red cards are covered by all three competitions. So MC twice and Everton completes his three match suspension. Now pick a proper team, no excuses.

[Whitey Grandad]

Attacking midfielders are not right or left backs. Ralph has a very serious problem as he doesn't appear to know that. Flexibility is great when you have flexible players but we ain't got none. I just cringe when I hear the taters say 'It was on his wrong foot' My coach when I played threatened us with death by saying 'Your Mum and Dad gave you two feet. Use both or you are up the f.....g road'.

 

Ralph would have Matt LeTiss playing at left back.

[gammon cheeks]

Is Chris Coleman coming in as DOf ? or some other role ? Probably a load of bull****.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

May aswell get all the rants out before the weekends over. Two observations

 

1. The 'We March On' motto on the free scarves. Can we just bin it. Was introduced post the mass exodus of players whenever Koeman took over and held true during his tenure. However its getting embarassing because we've steadily went backwards the last 2.5 years. Delusional by the club not to recognise we arent marching on.....unless its on to the quest channel next year.

 

2. Would love to know what the most important attributes the 'black box' looks for, because leadership must have been missing from the database. Not one player in that starting lineup yesterday shows any kind of leadership qualities. JWP captain, give me a break. Before him, Hoj or Berty dont strike me as real captain material either. Would love our recruitment going forward to focus on those big characters/leaders as much as the 'unpolished' diamonds we've previously looked to get

 

This

[Jonnyboy]

May aswell get all the rants out before the weekends over. Two observations

 

1. The 'We March On' motto on the free scarves. Can we just bin it. Was introduced post the mass exodus of players whenever Koeman took over and held true during his tenure. However its getting embarassing because we've steadily went backwards the last 2.5 years. Delusional by the club not to recognise we arent marching on.....unless its on to the quest channel next year.

 

2. Would love to know what the most important attributes the 'black box' looks for, because leadership must have been missing from the database. Not one player in that starting lineup yesterday shows any kind of leadership qualities. JWP captain, give me a break. Before him, Hoj or Berty dont strike me as real captain material either. Would love our recruitment going forward to focus on those big characters/leaders as much as the 'unpolished' diamonds we've previously looked to get

 

How about Ings as captain?

[derry]

How about Ings as captain?

 

Not a bad shout, has something about him. Why not go the whole hog and play him in midfield alongside Armstrong in front of Stephens with three from Djenepo, Adams, Redmond and Boufal up front. Compared to the last four games it couldn't be worse and give us some balance and attacking pace.

[Norm]

I sat through that yesterday and can’t believe I then watched MOTD last night and again this morning. That has to be one of the worst 45 minutes I’ve seen in a few years. What really struck me, not one Saints player would be good enough to swap places with a single Everton player! Not one, IMO.

i thought Ralf’s body language during the game was one of utter depression. Whilst many of his team selections and substitutions seem bizarre, he only has very average players to work with. We really don’t know what is going on behind closed doors and if he has any support from the owner.

[SKD]

Is Chris Coleman coming in as DOf ? or some other role ? Probably a load of bull****.

 

Saw a bit of fuse on twitter about him as he was seen in Southampton.... nothing to see here though, he lives in Winchester

[St Lej]

May aswell get all the rants out before the weekends over. Two observations

 

1. The 'We March On' motto on the free scarves. Can we just bin it. Was introduced post the mass exodus of players whenever Koeman took over and held true during his tenure. However its getting embarassing because we've steadily went backwards the last 2.5 years. Delusional by the club not to recognise we arent marching on.....unless its on to the quest channel next year.

 

2. Would love to know what the most important attributes the 'black box' looks for, because leadership must have been missing from the database. Not one player in that starting lineup yesterday shows any kind of leadership qualities. JWP captain, give me a break. Before him, Hoj or Berty dont strike me as real captain material either. Would love our recruitment going forward to focus on those big characters/leaders as much as the 'unpolished' diamonds we've previously looked to get

 

The complete reluctance to recruit anyone with genuine leadership experience or solid premier league experience in defensive areas is going to undoubtedly relegate us, and i find it utterly astonishing that we didn't, and still don't, consider this quality a priority. Cedric apparently in the "leadership group" and JWP as captain is absolutely laughable and shows how much trouble we're in. We clearly thought we could churn out untried young, rough gems every time, all under 25, and we'd be ok. Naivety in the extreme and ridiculously complacent in what is regarded as the toughest league in the world. "Tough" being the key word.....you need "tough" players, people who will dig in when you don't have the resources to buy the best skilled players. We've failed at this, and we'll pay for it.

[Shroppie]

Full Back is a specialised position. They protect the flanks and anchor the outsides of the defensive line. We only had one for the first half and he was played on his wrong side.

 

For their second goal we had Djenepo on our left and Armstrong too far upfield on the right. They had time to pick out a cross to Richarlison who was unmarked.

 

You can’t play a game without full backs.

I agree!!!!

 

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[adrian lord]

i thought Ralf’s body language during the game was one of utter depression.

 

Not surprising - his stepping stone plan to come to the Premier League and take Saints to a couple of top 7 finishes and a Final or 2 before getting a BIG CLUB is now in tatters.

[derry]

JWP, made 35 passes, 86% completion backwards and sideways five yard passes FFS, Made NO tackles, For God's sake how did he manage that with the amount of time Everton were attacking. One Shot, a ****ing free kick. His corners were poor and lacked control. I'm not an analyst, the club must be ignoring what anybody who watches him can see, he is a liability. He is a big part of the problem bringing the defence into play to pass sideways and backwards.

Edited 10 November, 2019 by derry

[derry]

I think I'd take them away for a week in tents cooking their own food and doing the Lympestone RM obstacle and training regime every day. It might not make them better footballers but by God they wouldn't want to go back there any time soon. If money and persuasion won't cut it, the fear of the pain might.

[Saints foreva]

JWP, made 35 passes, 86% completion backwards and sideways five yard passes FFS, Made NO tackles, For God's sake how did he manage that with the amount of time Everton were attacking. One Shot, a ****ing free kick. His corners were poor and lacked control. I'm not an analyst, the club must be ignoring what anybody who watches him can see, he is a liability. He is a big part of the problem bringing the defence into play to pass sideways and backwards.

 

Captain for the day too.

[Dark Munster]

Chris Nicholl got us 7th in 1990.

Another decent manager hounded out by a large segment of our fans.

[macca155]

I get the feeling that some of Ralph's bizarre selections are down pressure from the owner.

 

Not playing obvious people in their positions, or the better player, seems to indicate that they are being sold in January to reduce the wage bill. How else could the omission of McCarthy, Cedric, Bertrand, Leminna (who we need) be explained.

 

Our defence is weak but has zero support from midfield. The team is nervous, slow, and bereft of ideas.

 

Armstrong and Lemina were exactly what we needed. Fast forward looking players. One is played at RB the other is loaned out..... ridiculous.

 

If you have problems at the back stabilise and sort it out professionally.

 

Stephen's is clearly a DM, yes he'll be a bit slow but he has the edge on Romeo.

 

My team would be.

McCarthy

 

Cedric

Danso

Vestergaard

Bertrand

 

Holberg Stephens

 

Armstrong Lemina

 

Boufel Ings Redmond

 

And hope the ref can't count.

 

That team would not concede the number of goals we are currently shipping. Principally because the ball would be pushed forward faster and the opposition will be on the back foot.

 

It's interesting reading the whole thread as there seems to be a consistent view. Need to hold on to that.

 

We aren't 't relegated yet, long way from it, a bit of fight stability,courage, and a couple of wins and things will look a lot better.

 

Carry on with the same nonsense and Saints are down.

Edited 10 November, 2019 by macca155

[JRM]

I have thought for some time that Stephens would be a better defensive midfielder than CB. He is quite good on the ball and can see a pass. He's worth a go.

 

Stephens played a whole season in that position on loan to Swindon a few years ago and won their player of the year in a season they made the league one play off final, but I've never seen Saints try him there.