General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[doddisalegend]

You harp on about DEMOCRACY with Brexit, yet act like we live in a dictatorship in which the Government are not allowed to be held to account when they break the law.

Had it been a Labour government doing the same thing Wes would be hailing the courts for saving Britian from anti democratic commies.

 

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[Wes Tender]

What do you mean ‘acted as a political tool’?

 

Absolute tosh. They upheld the Law.

 

You don't seem to realise that it was you that introduced the expression "acted as a political tool" into the conversation. So I ask you, what did you mean by the expression?

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

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[whelk]

 

 

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Did you mock that up? Looks unskilled

[badgerx16]

You don't seem to realise that it was you that introduced the expression "acted as a political tool" into the conversation. So I ask you, what did you mean by the expression?

 

There are a few 'political tools' on here.

[Whitey Grandad]

You don't seem to realise that it was you that introduced the expression "acted as a political tool" into the conversation. So I ask you, what did you mean by the expression?

 

Now don’t try to turn this back on me.

 

What was your turn of phrase? “Intervened in political matters”.

 

A ‘political tool’ is what you wanted the Supreme Court to be. To help your man with his dictatorial actions. Instead they supported Parliament, the only true democratic will of the people.

Edited 10 November, 2019 by Whitey Grandad

[Wes Tender]

Now don’t try to turn this back on me.

 

A ‘political tool’ is what you wanted the Supreme Court to be. To help your man with his dictatorial actions. Instead they supported Parliament, the only true democratic will of the people.

 

No it isn't, so don't try an put words into my mouth. As you well know if you take any sort of interest in current affairs, the Supreme Court meddling in political matters has been frowned on in judicial circles as setting a dangerous precedent.

 

As for your nonsensical opinion that this Parliament in any way reflects the political will of the people, why then do you think that this election will be framed as Parliament against the people? I have to point out once again that two thirds of Constituencies voted to leave the EU and that two thirds of MPs have done their level best to thwart it. Is that really your idea of democracy?

 

I'm all for rule setting bodies, provided that they are seen to be impartial. In the case of Brexit, hardly any of them are, because they represent the pro-Remain establishment. The Supreme Court, the Speaker, the Electoral Commission, Parliament, much of the Civil Service, have all shown bias or vested interest in adopting a pro-remain position. One can only hope that if the Conservatives achieve a strong majority that they will bring about reform of some of these organisations.

[Whitey Grandad]

No it isn't, so don't try an put words into my mouth. As you well know if you take any sort of interest in current affairs, the Supreme Court meddling in political matters has been frowned on in judicial circles as setting a dangerous precedent.

 

As for your nonsensical opinion that this Parliament in any way reflects the political will of the people, why then do you think that this election will be framed as Parliament against the people? I have to point out once again that two thirds of Constituencies voted to leave the EU and that two thirds of MPs have done their level best to thwart it. Is that really your idea of democracy?

 

I'm all for rule setting bodies, provided that they are seen to be impartial. In the case of Brexit, hardly any of them are, because they represent the pro-Remain establishment. The Supreme Court, the Speaker, the Electoral Commission, Parliament, much of the Civil Service, have all shown bias or vested interest in adopting a pro-remain position. One can only hope that if the Conservatives achieve a strong majority that they will bring about reform of some of these organisations.

You are a biased and twisted that you have lost all sense of reality.

 

The Supreme Court did not ‘take an interest in current affairs’. It rippled that Johnson could not shut down

Parliament just to suit his own desires.

 

The election is only ‘being framed as Parliament against the people’ because you and your lot are choosing to put it that way. They don’t like it when the only true democratic body in Britain acts as it should.

 

It is irrelevant how many constituencies voted which way in that advisory Referendum, it was a nationwide opinion poll yet you try to insist that it was democratic. Only in your world.

 

If you for some weird reason believe that the whole establishment is pro-remain then that only goes to show how extreme your views are.

 

Your last sentence is one more step on the road to dictatorship.

[aintforever]

As for your nonsensical opinion that this Parliament in any way reflects the political will of the people, why then do you think that this election will be framed as Parliament against the people? I have to point out once again that two thirds of Constituencies voted to leave the EU and that two thirds of MPs have done their level best to thwart it. Is that really your idea of democracy?

.

 

That’s nonsense. MPs are elected to do what they think is in the best interests of their constituents - if they think the deal would be bad for their constituents it is their duty to vote against it, just like Boris Johnson did twice for May’s deal.

 

May’s deal is the only one Parliament voted down anyway, it never stopped Boris’ he did that himself.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

The election is only ‘being framed as Parliament against the people’ because you and your lot are choosing to put it that way. They don’t like it when the only true democratic body in Britain acts as it should.

 

it was a nationwide opinion poll yet you try to insist that it was democratic. Only in your world.

 

If you for some weird reason believe that the whole establishment is pro-remain then that only goes to show how extreme your views are .

 

 

What a load of pony.

 

The “the only true democratic body in Britain” is going to change, the swamp is being drained. No doubt you’ll be consistent and welcome any decisions it takes when Boris is returned with a majority.

 

 

In most people’s world the referendum was democratic, only losers like yourself claim it was an “opinion poll”.

 

The whole establishment is pro remain. The commons, lords, civil service, big business, banks, imf, tuc.

 

 

 

 

 

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[norwaysaint]

What a load of pony.

 

The “the only true democratic body in Britain” is going to change, the swamp is being drained. No doubt you’ll be consistent and welcome any decisions it takes when Boris is returned with a majority.

 

 

In most people’s world the referendum was democratic, only losers like yourself claim it was an “opinion poll”.

 

The whole establishment is pro remain. The commons, lords, civil service, big business, banks, imf, tuc.

 

 

 

 

 

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What a load of pony.

[Weston Super Saint]

What a load of pony.

 

Is this you still advocating debating the issues like an adult

[Wes Tender]

You are a biased and twisted that you have lost all sense of reality.

 

The Supreme Court did not ‘take an interest in current affairs’. It rippled that Johnson could not shut down

Parliament just to suit his own desires.

 

The election is only ‘being framed as Parliament against the people’ because you and your lot are choosing to put it that way. They don’t like it when the only true democratic body in Britain acts as it should.

 

It is irrelevant how many constituencies voted which way in that advisory Referendum, it was a nationwide opinion poll yet you try to insist that it was democratic. Only in your world.

 

If you for some weird reason believe that the whole establishment is pro-remain then that only goes to show how extreme your views are.

 

Your last sentence is one more step on the road to dictatorship.

 

Something wrong with your powers of comprehension today? I enquired whether you took an interest in current affairs, not the Supreme Court. As I said, there had been numerous articles in legal circles even, expressing concern that the Supreme Court would be meddling in political affairs by ruling on the prorogation issue. But of course, all those who expressed that opinion were biased and twisted, just as everybody was who voted to leave the EU, eh?

 

It is up to the political parties as to how they lay out the thrust of their campaigns, so of course you remoaners who aren't capable of accepting that Parliament has been hugely at odds with their electorate will resent that emphasis of the campaign. Clearly, they aren't after gaining the votes of the terminally blinkered anti-democrats, like you, who are idiotic enough to think that the referendum was some giant opinion poll to be ignored if it didn't return the result you wanted. And you have the brass neck to talk about democracy.

 

As for your belief that the establishment is not pro-remain, I am amazed at your naivety, which would be more credible in some spotty fourth former, not an aged grandad.

 

As for your last sentence, expressing the opinion that some establishment bodies or organisations require reform is hardly a step on the road to dictatorship. It is a bad case of hyperbole on your part. Calm down dear, you're sounding far too shrill to be taken seriously.

[buctootim]

Something wrong with your powers of comprehension today? I enquired whether you took an interest in current affairs, not the Supreme Court. As I said, there had been numerous articles in legal circles even, expressing concern that the Supreme Court would be meddling in political affairs by ruling on the prorogation issue. But of course, all those who expressed that opinion were biased and twisted, just as everybody was who voted to leave the EU, eh?

 

It is up to the political parties as to how they lay out the thrust of their campaigns, so of course you remoaners who aren't capable of accepting that Parliament has been hugely at odds with their electorate will resent that emphasis of the campaign. Clearly, they aren't after gaining the votes of the terminally blinkered anti-democrats, like you, who are idiotic enough to think that the referendum was some giant opinion poll to be ignored if it didn't return the result you wanted. And you have the brass neck to talk about democracy.

 

As for your belief that the establishment is not pro-remain, I am amazed at your naivety, which would be more credible in some spotty fourth former, not an aged grandad.

 

As for your last sentence, expressing the opinion that some establishment bodies or organisations require reform is hardly a step on the road to dictatorship. It is a bad case of hyperbole on your part. Calm down dear, you're sounding far too shrill to be taken seriously.

 

You are a very peculiar individual

[badgerx16]

Some people are happy that decisions go their way, others are unhappy because those same decisions go against their views. Neither displays evidence of bias.

[Wes Tender]

You are a very peculiar individual

 

How's the Norway option going, Timmy?

[norwaysaint]

Is this you still advocating debating the issues like an adult

 

Haha, it's me getting tired of reading that silly, lazy comment like it carries any weight at all. Both sides here are capable of similar lazy tactics, but that one stands out as particularly weak.

[buctootim]

How's the Norway option going, Timmy?

 

Very well. You said no deal I said Norway. Its still five years or so till its finalised but you can pay up now based on the way its going. Even if the Tories get re-elected no deal has been ruled out and we're probably stay in the single market and customs union during an implementation period which gets extended for years till its all quietly dropped.

 

You're likely to be dead before five years are up, so maybe leave the £50 to charity in your will?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Very well. You said no deal I said Norway. Its still five years or so till its finalised but you can pay up now based on the way its going. Even if the Tories get re-elected no deal has been ruled out and we're probably stay in the single market and customs union during an implementation period which gets extended for years till its all quietly dropped.

 

You're likely to be dead before five years are up, so maybe leave the £50 to charity in your will?

 

 

This is rubbish. If Boris wins a majority there’s absolutely zero chance of us staying in the SM after any implementation period. After the swamp is drained the Parliamentary party will be far more right wing and the ERG numbers will be boosted. There is no chance they’ll let the issue be “quietly dropped”. If you think the new improved Tory party will accept an endless implementation period you’re deluded. It’s far more likely they’ll push for the end of it as early as possible. If Boris wins it won’t be Norway, not a hope in hell.

 

 

 

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[buctootim]

This is rubbish. If Boris wins a majority there’s absolutely zero chance of us staying in the SM after any implementation period. After the swamp is drained......

 

Why do you think he specifically negotiated a clause allowing extension of the implementation period? He is the swamp. The dawn light arrives very slowly in your house

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why do you think he specifically negotiated a clause allowing extension of the implementation period? He is the swamp. The dawn light arrives very slowly in your house

 

Pony.

 

It is you that doesn’t seem to understand or accept the consequences of Boris returning with a majority. Wake up and smell the coffee, there will not be a Norway type arrangement if he gets a majority. Even if he wanted one or tried to negotiate one, the new and improved Party will take him down. No Tory Government will accept FOM, even one led by someone with an incredibly pink outlook on immigration. That ship will sail if Boris gets a majority and soft arsed pinkos will be left wishing they’d voted for Theresa May’s turd. Once the swamp is drained my wing of the party will set about transforming the country, with or without Boris Johnson.

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

To paraphrase Pete Townsend. Meet the new swamp, same as the old swamp.

[Wes Tender]

Very well. You said no deal I said Norway. Its still five years or so till its finalised but you can pay up now based on the way its going. Even if the Tories get re-elected no deal has been ruled out and we're probably stay in the single market and customs union during an implementation period which gets extended for years till its all quietly dropped.

 

You're likely to be dead before five years are up, so maybe leave the £50 to charity in your will?

 

I have been searching for the terms of the bet, as I'm pretty sure that it was based on you saying that we would leave on the Norway option and I just said we wouldn't. No doubt you will be able to provide the exact wording.

 

You really are naive to believe that if the Tories get re-elected that they will be bound by the Benn Surrender Act ruling out no deal. Didn't you realise that no Government can bind the hands of their successors, that all they would have to do is repeal it? You also can't be up to date with current affairs, because Boris has promised that he will not extend the Implementation Period beyond December 2020, so the implication of that is that if a free trade deal is not completed by then, we leave on WTO terms. You really must be barking to believe that it would be extended indefinitely.

 

As for you expecting that I might be dead by then, what a nasty piece of work you are.

[LGTL]

Farage has just pretty much handed the election to Boris. Not even he can mess it up from here surely?

[aintforever]

Our first past the post system really is a joke.

 

I guess it would be beyond the capabilities of the Lib Dems and Labour to sort out some sort of similar agreement?

[norwaysaint]

Our first past the post system really is a joke.

 

I guess it would be beyond the capabilities of the Lib Dems and Labour to sort out some sort of similar agreement?

 

It's easy to knock FPTP when you feel it's holding back representation of a party you support, but without it, their would probably be quite a large extreme right element in parliament now and would have been for some time. In fact, I would guess that we would be quite a few years into a coalition between the conservatives and UKIP or similar.

[aintforever]

It's easy to knock FPTP when you feel it's holding back representation of a party you support, but without it, their would probably be quite a large extreme right element in parliament now and would have been for some time. In fact, I would guess that we would be quite a few years into a coalition between the conservatives and UKIP or similar.

 

If people vote for an extreme right party they should be represented, just like the Green Party should have more representation.

 

Where I live unless you vote Conervative or Lib Dem you might as well roll your poll card up and shove it up your ass for all the good it will do - the system is outdated and not fit for purpose IMO.

[OldNick]

Our first past the post system really is a joke.

 

I guess it would be beyond the capabilities of the Lib Dems and Labour to sort out some sort of similar agreement?

Perhaps Spain at present is a good example of why coalitions are not a good thing. First past the post has worked for a long time in our democracy. Although I did enjoy the Con Lib term. I have had to suffer under Wilson, Brown, Blair and co, but I accepted it, the same as I have us leaving. Its how you have to deal with things, if Corbyn gets in I will have to adjust accordingly and it is about time I stopped working 6+ days a week.

[Wes Tender]

Farage has just pretty much handed the election to Boris. Not even he can mess it up from here surely?

 

Great news this morning! This makes both the Conservatives more assured of the election victory and able to push Brexit over the line, and the possibility of Corbyn in No.10 less likely. In return, in order to maximise the number of pro-Brexit MPs, the Conservatives should allow The Brexit Party a clean run at Labour's seats in their traditional industrial heartlands.

 

Also as an added bonus, we will hopefully now see the likes of Grieve, Soubry and other ex-Tory mavericks in the dole queue just before Christmas, as the Lib Dumbs not contesting their seats will be countered by TBP not splitting the true Tory vote.

[badgerx16]

First past the post has worked for a long time in our democracy.

When was the last Government elected by a majority of the votes cast, let alone of the electorate. Why is it acceptable that a party can easily gain 25% of the vote yet have a number of MPs measured in single figures ? Is either of these points 'democratic' ?

Also, the poll published last week predicted the Conservatives gaining 5% fewer votes in the GE, yet gaining 50 seats. How is that representative ?

Edited 11 November, 2019 by badgerx16

[aintforever]

Perhaps Spain at present is a good example of why coalitions are not a good thing. First past the post has worked for a long time in our democracy. Although I did enjoy the Con Lib term. I have had to suffer under Wilson, Brown, Blair and co, but I accepted it, the same as I have us leaving. Its how you have to deal with things, if Corbyn gets in I will have to adjust accordingly and it is about time I stopped working 6+ days a week.

 

It's worked as long as you support a red or blue donkey.

[OldNick]

It's worked as long as you support a red or blue donkey.

there used to be a yellow donkey in the 20th century but I think they made such a mess of things the donkey was put down. A party of Thorpe and the big fat paedo who they covered for many years dont deserve much thrift. Although as I said Cameron with Clegg was a decent balanced mix

[norwaysaint]

Here in Norway it's always automatically a question of which coalition you're going to have. Right now it is indeed the Conservative party and their far right allies. The greens remain very much a minority party. Another party who benefitted were the Christian party, who used the larger party's need for the coalition to insist that their man became prime minister, a bit like having Farage in power now in a Tory/UKIP coalition. Or Arlene Foster.

 

I would actually vote Conservative here at the moment if they weren't in bed with the far right, due to some key policies.

[OldNick]

When was the last Government elected by a majority of the votes cast, let alone of the electorate. Why is it acceptable that a party can easily gain 25% of the vote yet have a number of MPs measured in single figures ? Is either of these points 'democratic' ?

Also, the poll published last week predicted the Conservatives gaining 5% fewer votes in the GE, yet gaining 50 seats. How is that representative ?

well that's how its been and how it is. It could be said that how come 52% voted in favour of something but the 48% are thwarting the majority's desire. If you truly think the first past the post is wrong and its not fair, how do you think the majority ( im not one of them) feel as they are being stopped by people like yourself???

[aintforever]

there used to be a yellow donkey in the 20th century but I think they made such a mess of things the donkey was put down. A party of Thorpe and the big fat paedo who they covered for many years dont deserve much thrift. Although as I said Cameron with Clegg was a decent balanced mix

 

So you actually think it is right that a party can get almost 13% share of the vote and get no representation in Parliament.

[norwaysaint]

well that's how its been and how it is. It could be said that how come 52% voted in favour of something but the 48% are thwarting the majority's desire. If you truly think the first past the post is wrong and its not fair, how do you think the majority ( im not one of them) feel as they are being stopped by people like yourself???

 

How can you know it's 48% thwarting the brexit opportunities so far? I know of lots of the 52% who didn't want no deal and didn't like the deals offered. I have no idea of the overall proportions, but I don't think you can be sure. We already know that even Boris has been part of the group blocking Brexit at some time. I would suggest there has yet to be a solution offered that all of the 52% would accept. It doesn't take much for it to be the majority of the population wanting to thwart Brexit and I wouldn't be surprised if that has been a majority view. The 52% should indeed get their Brexit, but it's not just the 48% blocking it so far.

[OldNick]

So you actually think it is right that a party can get almost 13% share of the vote and get no representation in Parliament.

Are you talking about Farages former party? Frankly I dont care about them, but it did seem unfair but probably not as unfair as the Scot nationalists who get a small proportion of votes and get a lot of say in our own parliament.

I dont want PR as it ends up a joke and lots of horse trading, similar to the Tories and DUP. There is no perfect way and so I would keep to what we know.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Our first past the post system really is a joke.

 

 

We had a referendum on changing it, do you not accept that result either?

 

 

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[aintforever]

We had a referendum on changing it, do you not accept that result either?

 

 

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That wasn't on PR. And no it wouldn't change my opinion on FPTP.

[LGTL]

I do wonder where this will leave the more moderate traditional Tory voters, particularly those who voted to remain. The Conservatives and Brexit Party are slowly morphing into each other.

[norwaysaint]

I do wonder where this will leave the more moderate traditional Tory voters, particularly those who voted to remain. The Conservatives and Brexit Party are slowly morphing into each other.

 

That's not just the tories though. I'd say most parties are now defining their image on where they stand on Brexit, reluctantly in some cases, but it's the issue of the day.

[sadoldgit]

I do wonder where this will leave the more moderate traditional Tory voters, particularly those who voted to remain. The Conservatives and Brexit Party are slowly morphing into each other.

 

Judging by the hardliners Tories on here, the moderates are not proper Tories and good riddance. Theresa May said not all that long ago that they were in danger of turning into the Nasty Party. Looks like she was spot on.

[doddisalegend]

I do wonder where this will leave the more moderate traditional Tory voters, particularly those who voted to remain. The Conservatives and Brexit Party are slowly morphing into each other.

Voting Lib Dem I'd imagine. If Labour was more "new" Labour and less "1970s trade union" Labour they'd be killing this election. But because both main parties are moving further left and right there is a big chunk of more moderate voters looking for a party to vote for which I guess will be the Lib Dems gain but it won't be enough to change anything because of FPtP.

 

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[aintforever]

Are you talking about Farages former party? Frankly I dont care about them, but it did seem unfair but probably not as unfair as the Scot nationalists who get a small proportion of votes and get a lot of say in our own parliament.

I dont want PR as it ends up a joke and lots of horse trading, similar to the Tories and DUP. There is no perfect way and so I would keep to what we know.

 

I'm sorry but any system that only effectively gives us a binary choice between a hard left Corbyn government and a right wing Tory with a hard Brexit is f*cked up IMO.

[Wes Tender]

You lot are a bit confused by current events. You mistakenly believe for some reason that a politician's position on whether to accept the democratic vote in a referendum determines whether they are moderates or some sort of right wing extremist. It doesn't. It makes them either more or less of a democrat. Have you lot worked out which position honours the democratic vote? No, I thought not.

 

Furthermore, just because the Conservatives and The Brexit Party mostly share a position whereby they both wish to leave the EU, they are apparently morphing together, whereas there is no suggestion as far as I can see that Labour, the Lib Dumbs, the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru who all support remaining in the EU are morphing together. How strange.

 

Also deeply ironic is the position of the SNP, who want independence from one Union, in order to remain in another where they would be less independent than they currently would be if they stuck with us. I don't see any labels applied to them as being right wing extremists, little Scotlanders, old or thick, or any other derogatory terms.

 

And as for you Soggy, the nastiest or the truly nasty parties would be Corbyn's Marxist Labour Party, which I'm sure you would love to be in power.

 

Thank God that the events of today have made that a more distant possibility.

[shurlock]

You lot are a bit confused by current events. You mistakenly believe for some reason that a politician's position on whether to accept the democratic vote in a referendum determines whether they are moderates or some sort of right wing extremist. It doesn't. It makes them either more or less of a democrat. Have you lot worked out which position honours the democratic vote? No, I thought not.

 

Furthermore, just because the Conservatives and The Brexit Party mostly share a position whereby they both wish to leave the EU, they are apparently morphing together, whereas there is no suggestion as far as I can see that Labour, the Lib Dumbs, the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru who all support remaining in the EU are morphing together. How strange.

 

Also deeply ironic is the position of the SNP, who want independence from one Union, in order to remain in another where they would be less independent than they currently would be if they stuck with us. I don't see any labels applied to them as being right wing extremists, little Scotlanders, old or thick, or any other derogatory terms.

 

And as for you Soggy, the nastiest or the truly nasty parties would be Corbyn's Marxist Labour Party, which I'm sure you would love to be in power.

 

Thank God that the events of today have made that a more distant possibility.

 

They don’t see any contradiction because there is no real contradiction Les - again you characteristically and ignorantly misunderstand the nature of the EU and overestimate its power.

Edited 11 November, 2019 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

Judging by the hardliners Tories on here, the moderates are not proper Tories and good riddance. Theresa May said not all that long ago that they were in danger of turning into the Nasty Party. Looks like she was spot on.

 

God you don’t half come out with some pony. She didn’t say that they were in danger of turning into the nasty party, she said they were seen as the nasty party. That wasn’t “not all that long ago”, it was 17 ****ing years ago. By the way, at the very same conference she made that speech, some old dinosaur got up and criticised gay marriage and repeal of section 28, stating he wouldn’t vote for either. The dinosaur in question.................Every remainer’s cuddly Tory uncle Ken Clarke. Who supported both at that time.......one Boris Johnson.

 

 

Soppy old pinkos like you are going to get a shock on election night, when you’ll see just who the moderates are. The extremist Little European’s are going to get a shock bigger than June ‘16. Nigel has just seen to that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

They don’t see any contradiction because there is no real contradiction Les - again you characteristically and ignorantly overestimate the power of the EU.

 

Gavin in his usual hubristic, insult throwing mode. This overestimation of the power of the EU presumably doesn't include their insistence that an independent Scotland wishing to join as a new member would have to join the Eurozone and Schengen, does it?

[ecuk268]

 

Furthermore, just because the Conservatives and The Brexit Party mostly share a position whereby they both wish to leave the EU, they are apparently morphing together, whereas there is no suggestion as far as I can see that Labour, the Lib Dumbs, the SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru who all support remaining in the EU are morphing together. How strange.

 

.

 

I see what you did there.

 

You called the Lib Dems the Lib Dumbs. Hilarious!

 

Oscar Wilde's got nothing on you, has he?

[norwaysaint]

I see what you did there.

 

You called the Lib Dems the Lib Dumbs. Hilarious!

 

Oscar Wilde's got nothing on you, has he?

 

Surely not, when he just called someone else out for insult throwing? That would indicate quite a lack of self awareness.