General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

Yeah she was such a major player. Big election story that.

I didn't say that but there's definitely a story there about the ineffectiveness of woke celebrity endorsements considering the abject failures of lily Allen, Hugh grant, stormsy, Steve Coogan etc.

[badgerx16]

What’s your definition of a “lefty” then Wes?

 

Anybody to the left of Genghis Khan.

[Wes Tender]

What a difference Boris has made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

He wouldn't be missed, apart from by his mate Gavyn. But his type never do actually stick to their promises to leave because Boris is PM. That Yasmin Alibhai-Brown cow promised to leave if Boris became Tory leader and she is still here. The trouble is, life in the UK is simply too good for these champagne Solialists under a Conservative government.

[Trader]

H

You might have a low opinion of Liberals Wes but constantly calling them dumb isn’t helpful. As for not being democratic, isn’t part of the process giving a voice to what you believe in? If they had of won a working majority on the main point of their manifesto they would have won the democratic right to stop Brexit. We had a vote to join the EU years ago, is it undemocratic to overturn that vote now? Farage made it perfectly clear that he would have continued the fight to leave if the vote had been reversed. You and the other Brexiteers on here would be posting everyday calling for another vote. There is no right or wrong on this issue but both sides of the argument clearly feel very strongly about what they think is best for the country and those feelings and beliefs aren’t going to vanish overnight. Whilst there was still hope to stop it or to at least go for a second referendum, you can’t blame remainers for fighting their corner. If the situation was reversed I would expect you would feel the same. Still, it is done now and you have won the war. Perhaps we can re-engage in the argument in 20 years time when another generation try to rejoin the EU?

 

We never ever had a vote to join the EU or any of its previous versions. It was a vote to LEAVE. We were already in.

 

That was decided for us by politicians and the Civil Service, because as ever, they ‘know best’.

 

Except they don’t.

[Wes Tender]

H

 

We never ever had a vote to join the EU or any of its previous versions. It was a vote to LEAVE. We were already in.

 

That was decided for us by politicians and the Civil Service, because as ever, they ‘know best’.

 

Except they don’t.

 

As you correctly point out, Soggy is wrong in saying that we had a vote to join the EU years ago. We didn't join the EU. We joined the so-called Common Market, the EEC. It only morphed into the EU following Maastricht.

[Batman]

These are still making me chuckle

 

 

[OldNick]

Can someone please give me the definition of child poverty?

It obviously not the same as when Dickens was alive, and I also would like to know the definiton of poverty at todays standards.

Children are the most precious things on this earth and so this is important for me to understand for modern meaning.

[sadoldgit]

H

 

We never ever had a vote to join the EU or any of its previous versions. It was a vote to LEAVE. We were already in.

 

That was decided for us by politicians and the Civil Service, because as ever, they ‘know best’.

 

Except they don’t.

 

You are right, we didn’t vote to join. In 1975 we had a democratic vote to stay in. A democratic vote.

[sadoldgit]

Whilst we are talking about democracy, how democratic was it for Johnson to throw a bunch of democratically elected MPs out of their own party?

[Guided Missile]

Reality Check:

[shurlock]

He wouldn't be missed, apart from by his mate Gavyn. But his type never do actually stick to their promises to leave because Boris is PM. That Yasmin Alibhai-Brown cow promised to leave if Boris became Tory leader and she is still here. The trouble is, life in the UK is simply too good for these champagne Solialists under a Conservative government.

 

What’s a Champagne Socialist Les? Weren’t you privately educated?

[shurlock]

Can someone please give me the definition of child poverty?

It obviously not the same as when Dickens was alive, and I also would like to know the definiton of poverty at todays standards.

Children are the most precious things on this earth and so this is important for me to understand for modern meaning.

 

 

Poverty lines depend on what kind of household you live in -single or couple, with or without children. For a couple with two kids, in 2017/18, it was living in a family with about £400pw income before housing costs (that figure is post-tax and includes earnings from employment and any state benefits etc).

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

What’s a Champagne Socialist Les? Weren’t you privately educated?

 

How's your mate Andy Adonis taking this massive defeat and humiliating embarrassment, Gavyn? When is he leaving for Cyprus?

[shurlock]

How's your mate Andy Adonis taking this massive defeat and humiliating embarrassment, Gavyn? When is he leaving for Cyprus?

 

Not spoken to him since the Euro elections in May. Suffice to say that’s he’s probably accomplished significantly more in his professional life and is far more of a self-made man than you pal. Champagne Socialist says the boarding school mediocrity

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[buctootim]

Can someone please give me the definition of child poverty?

It obviously not the same as when Dickens was alive, and I also would like to know the definiton of poverty at todays standards.

Children are the most precious things on this earth and so this is important for me to understand for modern meaning.

 

There are lots of definitions within countries let alone between countries. One of the most common is living in a household with income of 60% or less of the mean. More detailed explanation here:

https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

[shurlock]

There are lots of definitions within countries let alone between countries. One of the most common is living in a household with income of 60% or less of the mean. More detailed explanation here:

https://fullfact.org/economy/poverty-uk-guide-facts-and-figures/

 

The median, not the mean.

[Guided Missile]

Not spoken to him since the Euro elections in May. Suffice to say that’s he’s probably accomplished significantly more in his professional life and is far more of a self-made man than you pal. Champagne Socialist says the boarding school mediocrity

I doubt that, Gavyn. A Lib Dem local councillor from Oxford and third rate journo, who, apart from a local election along time ago, has never stood for, or been elected to, a political post in 30 years? Has a net worth, according to this website, of between $1-5M. A total loon...

[Wes Tender]

Not spoken to him since the Euro elections in May. Suffice to say that’s he’s probably accomplished significantly more in his professional life and is far more of a self-made man than you pal. Champagne Socialist says the boarding school mediocrity

 

What's my education background got to do with anything, Gavyn? Adonis has achieved quite a lot in his life, but being electable apart from at local government level, and being right about the political landscape are areas where his is signally a failure. If he's a good friend and you haven't heard from him since Labour's debacle defeat in the Euro elections, perhaps you might put a metaphorical friendly arm around his shoulders to comfort him after this devastating reversal of his party's fortunes. Perhaps you can both go out and drown your sorrows, and you can advise him on where else in the world with a socialist government his talents would be best suited to.

[shurlock]

I doubt that, Gavyn. A Lib Dem local councillor from Oxford and third rate journo, who, apart from a local election along time ago, has never stood for, or been elected to, a political post in 30 years? Has a net worth, according to this website, of between $1-5M. A total loon...

 

The son of a Cypriot postman who grew up in a care home till he was 11 and through the dint of his own graft and effort secured a scholarship and the rest is history. I suspect he knows a bit more about survival and hardship than you pal. Till he went off piste over Brexit (I find some of his positions are dubious), he was universally respected by all sides of the political divide for his policy impact and thinking on education and infrastructure, among other things.

[Guided Missile]

The son of a Cypriot postman who grew up in a care home till he was 11 and through the dint of his own graft and effort secured a scholarship and the rest is history. I suspect he knows a bit more about survival and hardship than you pal.

Gavyn, you know nothing about my background, so STFU, pal. Like I said, much like you, a total loon, but unlike you, at least he's a British loon...

[shurlock]

What's my education background got to do with anything, Gavyn? Adonis has achieved quite a lot in his life, but being electable apart from at local government level, and being right about the political landscape are areas where his is signally a failure. If he's a good friend and you haven't heard from him since Labour's debacle defeat in the Euro elections, perhaps you might put a metaphorical friendly arm around his shoulders to comfort him after this devastating reversal of his party's fortunes. Perhaps you can both go out and drown your sorrows, and you can advise him on where else in the world with a socialist government his talents would be best suited to.

 

Why Les. Because the Champagne Socialist label implies he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth (contrast with the scumbag Seumas Milne). In fact, he probably had fewer breaks than you. So all we have left is whining because he’s made a success of himself and is pretty well-off which sounds awfully like the politics of envy to me. Who da thunk it: Les and John getting envious

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Batman]

Landslide likely, eh?

 

 

[shurlock]

Gavyn, you know nothing about my background, so STFU, pal. Like I said, much like you, a total loon, but unlike you, at least he's a British loon...

 

Head’s gone

 

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Guided Missile]

Why Les. Because the Champagne Socialist label implies he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth (contrast with the cretinous Seumas Milne). In fact, he probably had fewer breaks than you. So all we have left is whining because he’s made a success of himself and is pretty well-off which sounds awfully like the politics of envy to me. Who da thunk it: Les and John getting envious

Envious? Net worth of $1-5m? A gay divorcee? Yeah, I'm green with envy.

Back on ignore for you, pal. You've been placed in the loon category, permanently...

[shurlock]

Envious? Net worth of $1-5m? A gay divorcee? Yeah, I'm green with envy.

Back on ignore for you, pal. You've been placed in the loon category, permanently...

 

As I say he’s achieved much more than your merry little band has ever done. And without an expensive education. I thought you boys celebrated hard work and success? Shall I take it as an admission that you were wrong in your dopey little caricature.

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Why Les. Because the Champagne Socialist label implies he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth (contrast with the scumbag Seumas Milne). In fact, he probably had fewer breaks than you. So all we have left is whining because he’s made a success of himself and is pretty well-off which sounds awfully like the politics of envy to me. Who da thunk it: Les and John getting envious

 

I think that you ought to look up the definition of a champagne socialist, Gavin. It doesn't preclude those who rose to prominence from humble beginnings. I see no reason whatsoever why it doesn't fit Adonis like a glove; only having been elected once at a minor level, he then rose up through patronage to be a Government minister and a Baronet. So humble beginnings, journalist, Government Minister, House of Lords, but according to you Gavyn, his humble beginnings excuse him from accusations that his current privileged champagne lifestyle fits the description perfectly.

 

Me envious of him? Don't make me laugh.

[buctootim]

...

[shurlock]

I think that you ought to look up the definition of a champagne socialist, Gavin. It doesn't preclude those who rose to prominence from humble beginnings. I see no reason whatsoever why it doesn't fit Adonis like a glove; only having been elected once at a minor level, he then rose up through patronage to be a Government minister and a Baronet. So humble beginnings, journalist, Government Minister, House of Lords, but according to you Gavyn, his humble beginnings excuse him from accusations that his current privileged champagne lifestyle fits the description perfectly.

 

Me envious of him? Don't make me laugh.

 

As I say this sounds awfully like the politics of envy to me as if you’re holding his success against him - what should he have done instead? Turn out like you? Throw in the complete nonsequitur that only the poor are allowed to hold progressive views and I’m afraid you’ve lost me. You’re really channeling your inner Burgon today pal. Perhaps try and lay off the meaningless soundbites. You’ll get caught out less often.

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[whelk]

I didn't say that but there's definitely a story there about the ineffectiveness of woke celebrity endorsements considering the abject failures of lily Allen, Hugh grant, stormsy, Steve Coogan etc.

 

Nearly all celebs will be left leaning and champion causes that don’t resonate with the working man. Nothing new.

Has celebrity endorsement ever been effective?

[Lighthouse]

Nearly all celebs will be left leaning and champion causes that don’t resonate with the working man. Nothing new.

Has celebrity endorsement ever been effective?

 

I was in Pizza Express last week, it was packed.

[shurlock]

Gary ‘Woke’ Neville and Jamie ‘Woke’ Carragher = The Woke Brothers

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

Whilst we are talking about democracy, how democratic was it for Johnson to throw a bunch of democratically elected MPs out of their own party?

 

Very democratic.

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Tamesaint]

So Labour's shadow minister for transport accuses the BBC of pro Tory bias... whilst Tories like our mate Les reckons that the "biased broadcasting corporation" is biased towards Labour.

 

Seems to me that they are doing things right and if the truth is known they are pretty impartial.

[shurlock]

So Labour's shadow minister for transport accuses the BBC of pro Tory bias... whilst Tories like our mate Les reckons that the "biased broadcasting corporation" is biased towards Labour.

 

Seems to me that they are doing things right and if the truth is known they are pretty impartial.

 

Have spent a bit of time around the BBC and the institution has some very serious flaws. And they’re getting worse, not better.

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Tamesaint]

Have spent a bit of time around the BBC and the institution has some very serious flaws. And they’re getting worse, not better.

 

Would you care to elucidate?

[Batman]

So Labour's shadow minister for transport accuses the BBC of pro Tory bias... whilst Tories like our mate Les reckons that the "biased broadcasting corporation" is biased towards Labour.

 

Seems to me that they are doing things right and if the truth is known they are pretty impartial.

 

It seems they are getting a lot wrong.

 

They are supposed to be impartial, not championing their own cause in an election!

[shurlock]

Would you care to elucidate?

 

It is an incredibly reactive organisation. It’s response to problems tends to be either too little too late or clumsy and excessive. In a similar vein, it struggles to know when to show contrition and when to come out fighting. It lets problems fester because admitting error would be seized upon by critics, not only outside the organisation but also within it -and the place is full of egos and cynics as you would expect of a journalist-driven organisation. Being a good producer, journalist, commissioner, creative etc also doesn’t necessarily make you a good manager which has led to issues in the middle ranks of the organisation. The BBC is expected to be a global news provider at time when more and more information is available and expertise is increasingly specialised but capabilities to filter that information are badly stretched. And it is aware of its unique funding position in a changing marketplace, especially as it is losing younger audiences and that it is existence is dependent on the good grace of politicians - an insecurity which tends to be more acute when the Conservatives are in power.

Edited 16 December, 2019 by shurlock

[CB Fry]

It seems they are getting a lot wrong.

 

They are supposed to be impartial, not championing their own cause in an election!

Being that Labour figures think they are pro-Tory, and Tory figures think they are pro-Labour, what cause were they championing?

[shurlock]

The BBC is also in the paradoxical position in that it’s main audience is older and other things being equal more conservative all while it is haemorrhaging younger audiences who are more liberal but consume news and content in nontraditional ways.

[whelk]

The BBC is also in the paradoxical position in that it’s main audience is older and other things being equal more conservative all while it is haemorrhaging younger audiences who are more liberal but consume news and content in nontraditional ways.

 

Or just don’t consume news

[rallyboy]

There were several moments that the BBC still need to explain - the editing of the Boris clip, the removal of the Remembrance Day footage, the retweeting of the fake news story, failing to bag the big interview, twice.

It was an odd series of errors for a major news organisation to make.

[Manuel]

The BBC are very left wing in everything they do, except when it comes to a few weeks before an election.

[hypochondriac]

Nearly all celebs will be left leaning and champion causes that don’t resonate with the working man. Nothing new.

Has celebrity endorsement ever been effective?

They why do they do it? If anything I think it makes a cause less popular.

[Trader]

The BBC are very left wing in everything they do, except when it comes to a few weeks before an election.

 

Spot on.

[Tamesaint]

It is an incredibly reactive organisation. It’s response to problems tends to be either too little too late or clumsy and excessive. In a similar vein, it struggles to know when to show contrition and when to come out fighting. It lets problems fester because admitting error would be seized upon by critics, not only outside the organisation but also within it -and the place is full of egos and cynics as you would expect of a journalist-driven organisation. Being a good producer, journalist, commissioner, creative etc also doesn’t necessarily make you a good manager which has led to issues in the middle ranks of the organisation. The BBC is expected to be a global news provider at time when more and more information is available and expertise is increasingly specialised but capabilities to filter that information are badly stretched. And it is aware of its unique funding position in a changing marketplace, especially as it is losing younger audiences and that it is existence is dependent on the good grace of politicians - an insecurity which tends to be more acute when the Conservatives are in power.

 

Interesting.

 

I recognise a lot in what you say.

[Wes Tender]

As I say this sounds awfully like the politics of envy to me as if you’re holding his success against him - what should he have done instead? Turn out like you? Throw in the complete nonsequitur that only the poor are allowed to hold progressive views and I’m afraid you’ve lost me. You’re really channeling your inner Burgon today pal. Perhaps try and lay off the meaningless soundbites. You’ll get caught out less often.

 

I was going to argue the toss with your post, but frankly the best response is this one;

 

[badgerx16]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/johnson-bans-ministers-from-davos-in-nod-to-working-class-voters

"Johnson also asked his colleagues “how many new hospitals are we going to build?” with the cabinet answering back in unison “40”. He then asked: “How many more nurses are we going to hire?” They chanted back: “50,000.”"

 

Oh no you're not ! ( Well, it is panto season ).

 

As for forming a 'People's Government', how very Communist Central Committee. Jeremy Corbyn must be spitting feathers as his mantra gets hijacked.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Shame, end of an era

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sheaf Saint]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/johnson-bans-ministers-from-davos-in-nod-to-working-class-voters

"Johnson also asked his colleagues “how many new hospitals are we going to build?” with the cabinet answering back in unison “40”. He then asked: “How many more nurses are we going to hire?” They chanted back: “50,000.”"

 

Oh no you're not ! ( Well, it is panto season ).

 

As for forming a 'People's Government', how very Communist Central Committee. Jeremy Corbyn must be spitting feathers as his mantra gets hijacked.

 

Yeah, a true 'People's' government, which just happens to include a minister who lost his seat by nearly 8,000 votes but still gets to stay on by being given a life peerage instead.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/zac-goldsmith-handed-life-peerage-and-keeps-environment-role

 

People's government my ar$e.

Edited 20 December, 2019 by Sheaf Saint

[Sheaf Saint]

Of course, Zac Goldmsith from 2012 would never support such a corrupt carving up of democracy...