General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[Saint in Paradise]

So I wonder who the next want to be Stalin / Mao will be?

[Batman]

The wise old sage speaks...

 

[CB Fry]

Is it really that different to what defeated Tory candidates have said in the past?

John Major resigned immediately, William Hague resigned immediately, so yes it is different. No one apart from that cretin would put their name to such an article after such an abject humiliation.

[sadoldgit]

An interesting article.

 

At the time of the referendum I remarked how Leavers wanted to leave with a passion. Remainers did not have their strength of feeling to remain.Witness for example Cameron's lacklustre approach to the EU at the referendum compared with the likes of Farage.

 

Since 2016, Remainers have developed a sort of EU passion. Witness for example the various anti Brexit marches. On the whole however Remainers's passion still does not match the hatred of the EU felt by many Leavers.

 

This article chimes with this view. Remainer Tories may want to stay in the EU but they would not desert the Tories if that meant putting that Marxist Corbyn in power. Labour Leavers with their hatred of the EU were much more prepared to desert their normal party if it meant leaving the EU.

 

 

Labour lost its leavers while Tory remainers stayed loyal

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/conservatives-bridge-brexit-divide-tory-landslide?

 

Never under estimate the power of nationalism.

[badgerx16]

It seems that Rees-Mogg’s grossly insensitive comments about Grenfell have been forgotten already. He even managed to increase his vote.

 

Has he now emerged from the coffin he's been locked into for the election campaign ?

[Jonnyboy]

John Major resigned immediately, William Hague resigned immediately, so yes it is different. No one apart from that cretin would put their name to such an article after such an abject humiliation.

 

Michael Howard?

[hypochondriac]

Is it really that different to what defeated Tory candidates have said in the past?

[Fan The Flames]

The ‘everyone gets medal’ generation really can’t hack not getting their own way.

 

Nice for some middle class toff to speak for the grafters out there...

 

 

Is the 'everyone gets a medal' thing to blame for EDL vile as well. There is vile on both sides, I thought you of all people would understand that.

 

Reading the responses under the clip and it seems she is hated for her class as much as her views, so identity politics is alive and kicking on both sides of the argument. Who would have thought it.

[CB Fry]

Michael Howard?

I fu cking knew you'd come back with that.

 

Resigned on the day, stayed on for a bit for the course of the leadership election.

 

Of course Michael Howard began the turnaround in fortunes for the Conservatives eating into Blairs majority and he returned to the commons with 30 odd more seats than they started with. And he'd been leading for only 18 months.

 

He never wrote an article saying he won the fu cking argument.

 

Ed Miliband and Gordon Brown also resigned immediately but hey lets ignore all of those and focus on the one that is closest to what you want your little cretin to do because it turns out he won after all, his so called defeat was just mainstream media spin.

Edited 15 December, 2019 by CB Fry

[Fan The Flames]

Sounded like it to me - give all the big decisions to the ‘clever’ people.

 

Thats not what he said at all was it. It is interesting that people who are fed up with the current situation, who would in past elections voted for change, instead voted for the incumbent government. The logic in the is interesting and will be something that political analysts will be looking into. To me it says a lot about how poor the alternative was and how fed up people were with the stale mate in parliament.

[hypochondriac]

Is the 'everyone gets a medal' thing to blame for EDL vile as well. There is vile on both sides, I thought you of all people would understand that.

 

Reading the responses under the clip and it seems she is hated for her class as much as her views, so identity politics is alive and kicking on both sides of the argument. Who would have thought it.

I expect its because she is criticising and insulting the working class whilst clearly not being working class herself. I'm not sure the working class are going to take too kindly to lectures from the likes of her

[Fan The Flames]

Is it really that different to what defeated Tory candidates have said in the past?

 

Completely different. The Tories are addicted to power it's in their DNA, they see themselves as the party of government. They will take a deteat on the chin, walk away and tweak their offer to suit the electorate to get back into government.

 

This left wing of the Labour Party is addicted to idoelogy, they see themselves as the party of the people and they see false honour in sticking by their principles. A defeat hits them badly and all they can do is scrabble around for fake reasons why their lost. Blind to the fact that your offer has to attractive to the electorate, and even more blind to the fact, as Jack Straw says that if you want to transform you have to be in power.

 

An opportunity has been missed and the blame lies squarely at the door of Corbyn, Lansman and McCluskey.

[whelk]

Completely different. The Tories are addicted to power it's in their DNA, they see themselves as the party of government. They will take a deteat on the chin, walk away and tweak their offer to suit the electorate to get back into government.

 

This left wing of the Labour Party is addicted to idoelogy, they see themselves as the party of the people and they see false honour in sticking by their principles. A defeat hits them badly and all they can do is scrabble around for fake reasons why their lost. Blind to the fact that your offer has to attractive to the electorate, and even more blind to the fact, as Jack Straw says that if you want to transform you have to be in power.

 

An opportunity has been missed and the blame lies squarely at the door of Corbyn, Lansman and McCluskey.

 

Mcluskey is an unprincipled phoney masquerading as someone looking after his boys. Absolute cnt and cannot belief Unite members cannot see through him. Relic

[sadoldgit]

Completely different. The Tories are addicted to power it's in their DNA, they see themselves as the party of government. They will take a deteat on the chin, walk away and tweak their offer to suit the electorate to get back into government.

 

This left wing of the Labour Party is addicted to idoelogy, they see themselves as the party of the people and they see false honour in sticking by their principles. A defeat hits them badly and all they can do is scrabble around for fake reasons why their lost. Blind to the fact that your offer has to attractive to the electorate, and even more blind to the fact, as Jack Straw says that if you want to transform you have to be in power.

 

An opportunity has been missed and the blame lies squarely at the door of Corbyn, Lansman and McCluskey.

 

It was quite pitiful reading this morning that Corbyn feels proud to have won the argument. No he didn’t. He may have had better policies and more decency in his little finger than in the whole of the Tory front bench combined, but he was solidly wiped out by a used car salesman with a dodgy second hand slogan. That is not winning the argument. The opposition had one job and that was to prevent Johnson getting a working majority and they failed miserably. It wasn’t just the Labour Party that screwed it up, the LibDems played right into Johnson’s hands too. The opposition in this election were akin to Southampton’s defence. No teamwork. No cohesive strategy. Just let the opposition, no matter how poor, score soft goals. But at the end of the day it is the people who vote who make the decision, and it is very worrying that the people of this country have chosen Johnson over Corbyn. In the same way as the Americans went for Trump‘s populist, nationalistic guff, we have chosen to go down the same route. Well, some have chosen that route for the rest of us. Who said that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas?

[hypochondriac]

It was quite pitiful reading this morning that Corbyn feels proud to have won the argument. No he didn’t. He may have had better policies and more decency in his little finger than in the whole of the Tory front bench combined, but he was solidly wiped out by a used car salesman with a dodgy second hand slogan. That is not winning the argument. The opposition had one job and that was to prevent Johnson getting a working majority and they failed miserably. It wasn’t just the Labour Party that screwed it up, the LibDems played right into Johnson’s hands too. The opposition in this election were akin to Southampton’s defence. No teamwork. No cohesive strategy. Just let the opposition, no matter how poor, score soft goals. But at the end of the day it is the people who vote who make the decision, and it is very worrying that the people of this country have chosen Johnson over Corbyn. In the same way as the Americans went for Trump‘s populist, nationalistic guff, we have chosen to go down the same route. Well, some have chosen that route for the rest of us. Who said that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas?

It's brilliant that the sensible British public have rejected corbyn and gone for Boris. A vastly superior choice and I'm proud of them.

[CB Fry]

It was quite pitiful reading this morning that Corbyn feels proud to have won the argument. No he didn’t. He may have had better policies and more decency in his little finger than in the whole of the Tory front bench combined, but he was solidly wiped out by a used car salesman with a dodgy second hand slogan. That is not winning the argument. The opposition had one job and that was to prevent Johnson getting a working majority and they failed miserably. It wasn’t just the Labour Party that screwed it up, the LibDems played right into Johnson’s hands too. The opposition in this election were akin to Southampton’s defence. No teamwork. No cohesive strategy. Just let the opposition, no matter how poor, score soft goals. But at the end of the day it is the people who vote who make the decision, and it is very worrying that the people of this country have chosen Johnson over Corbyn. In the same way as the Americans went for Trump‘s populist, nationalistic guff, we have chosen to go down the same route. Well, some have chosen that route for the rest of us. Who said that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas?

No idea why completely separate political parties should all join together and create a "cohesive strategy" just so it delivers the thing that you happen to want.

 

Jo Swinson didn't have a great campaign but she was spot on about the Labour leadership, as her views were echoed by voters all across the land.

 

It wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas as you so patronisingly describe it but it was the electorate rejecting, comprehensively, a pie in the sky manifesto and the worst political leader in history who wouldn't have been able to deliver it anyway.

[Batman]

 

Just seen Lisa Nandy go on about listening to the North of England. Talking about understanding their views on Brexit and learning from this..

when asked if she will back the WA when the PM brings in back very soon - she said no...

 

Luke Pollard (Labour) said the failing was that Labour should have been properly cemented in the remain camp as many of their lost voters would have forgiven them for actually having a stance and their policies would have won the argument.

 

deary me....

Edited 15 December, 2019 by Batman

[sadoldgit]

No idea why completely separate political parties should all join together and create a "cohesive strategy" just so it delivers the thing that you happen to want.

 

Jo Swinson didn't have a great campaign but she was spot on about the Labour leadership, as her views were echoed by voters all across the land.

 

It wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas as you so patronisingly describe it but it was the electorate rejecting, comprehensively, a pie in the sky manifesto and the worst political leader in history who wouldn't have been able to deliver it anyway.

 

If that is the case, why does it happen? You don’t think that there was some deal done between the Tories and the Brexit party? As for being patronising, when people in the poorest parts of the country vote for the party that has been the driver of austerity for the last decade, then yes, I think it is a case of turkeys voting for Christmas. Unless of course you think that Johnson and his party give a **** about the underprivileged.

 

Corbyn was never going to get a landslide. Swinson was never going to get anywhere near no 10. Why not work more closely together? The best Labour was going to get was power through a hung Parliament.

[eurosaint]

It was quite pitiful reading this morning that Corbyn feels proud to have won the argument. No he didn’t. He may have had better policies and more decency in his little finger than in the whole of the Tory front bench combined, but he was solidly wiped out by a used car salesman with a dodgy second hand slogan. That is not winning the argument. The opposition had one job and that was to prevent Johnson getting a working majority and they failed miserably. It wasn’t just the Labour Party that screwed it up, the LibDems played right into Johnson’s hands too. The opposition in this election were akin to Southampton’s defence. No teamwork. No cohesive strategy. Just let the opposition, no matter how poor, score soft goals. But at the end of the day it is the people who vote who make the decision, and it is very worrying that the people of this country have chosen Johnson over Corbyn. In the same way as the Americans went for Trump‘s populist, nationalistic guff, we have chosen to go down the same route. Well, some have chosen that route for the rest of us. Who said that turkeys don’t vote for Christmas?

 

I'm sure that you are a nice chap SoG but if you truly mean the points in bold here, you are either completely delusional or in total denial !

Difference of opinion is one thing but you really do have to accept reality before making changes in order to move forward. If Labour sticks to it's extreme left wing policies, it will be toast for many years to come !

I'd be happy to see the bulk of the party split from the Momentum mob and form a separate 'centre left' group and rebuild from there !

All governments become more accountable with a decent opposition but Corbynism is not the answer, this is not just my opinion, the country has spoken loud and clear (if you are actually willing to listen) !

[sadoldgit]

I have voted Labour twice in my life, in the last 2 elections, so I am not what Duckie could call a “lefty.” But I did prefer the Labour manifesto, mainly to reverse the damage done by a decade of austerity and to get rid of the unfit for purpose Universal Credit system. I do believe that Corbyn is basically a decent man and genuinely cares. He also has been a very ineffective leader of the opposition.I do believe that the LibDems fought a flawed campaign and should have worked closer with Labour to make it harder for the Tories, who, in the end rode roughshod over both parties. And yes, it does worry me that the people of this country chose Johnson over Corbyn just as it worried me that the Americans went for Trump over Clinton. Maybe I am deluded, but there are plenty more like me around the country.

[sadoldgit]

Sorry missed the last bit. As he said himself there is no such thing as Corbynism. That is just another slur made up by the right wing media to weaken Labour. It is socialism. And yes, I know that the country has spoken. It is what they have spoken for that worries me, just as the result of the referendum did. Living in a democracy doesn’t mean you have to be happy or stay silent about the decisions made within it. You might be old enough to remember the poll tax riots when people took to the streets to overturn an unpopular decision made by a democratically elected (Tory) government. Although the political map has turned bluer, look at the voting figures. There are still millions who do not want Johnson and the dislike for him runs a lot deeper than it has done for a great many Tory leaders.

[Batman]

Period of reflection off to a good start...

 

[sadoldgit]

And yet you don’t complain when a poster in here calls the centre party supporter LibDums?

[hypochondriac]

And yet you don’t complain when a poster in here calls the centre party supporter LibDums?

A) what does that have to do with the Labour Party?

 

B) what relevance does what a poster says on here have to do with what an elected MP says?

 

Seems like a period of reflection would serve you well too soggy. You've been on the losing side in elections for years now. Clearly your views are not aligned with those of the general public in anywhere near the numbers you think they are.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The ‘everyone gets medal’ generation really can’t hack not getting their own way.

 

Nice for some middle class toff to speak for the grafters out there...

 

 

“I want to be a doctor”.

 

FFS.

 

What’s BUPA’s number, what an advertisement for “our” NHS. If that was my daughter, I’d get her to have a good bath, wash her mouth out with soap, and teach her some respect. This is what soft arsed leftie parenting gets you.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[whelk]

“I want to be a doctor”.

 

FFS.

 

What’s BUPA’s number, what an advertisement for “our” NHS. If that was my daughter, I’d get her to have a good bath, wash her mouth out with soap, and teach her some respect. This is what soft arsed leftie parenting gets you.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

No doubt your kids will pretend to be model citizens their dad wants (needs) them to be rather than risk judgement from their opinionated old papa.

Heaven help one if they were gay. What you don’t like chicks? Get out and don’t come back

[sadoldgit]

Just reflecting on the state of British politics in my lifetime. I was 18 in 1972 and voted Tory up until Thatcher’s 2nd term. My parents always voted Tory and as I just assumed they knew best. I was also put off Labour by those nasty union types like Arthur Scargill. In the 80’s I realised what a divisive and unpleasant person Thatcher was and that was the end of the road for me and the Tories. The Liberals seemed to have the same set of values so they had my vote up until the point that Clegg sold their soul to the Tories. Since Brexit I seemed to have become radicalised to the point where I spend far too much time with politics on a football forum. I also seem to have embraced socialism, something I would never have believed in my 20’s.

 

The point of my ramble is this. I now live in a country where child poverty is at an all time high and is growing. I spend time in Brighton to see my kids and the numbers of homeless on the streets is shocking. When I go to the supermarket there is a big container by the door to put food in for the food banks. The local arable fields are being concreted over to make way for thousands of new homes (not affordable for those at the bottom of the ladder) whilst brownfield sites lay undeveloped. I can’t get a doctor’s appointment for 2 to 3 weeks in advance. You can’t pick up a local paper without seeing the news of another stabbing or rape. The M20 has a 20+ lorry parking section on it ready for Brexit. The local hospital is at breaking point yet they are planning to build a massive new market town a few miles from it with no provision for an extension to the hospital. Our A&E which is 5 miles away in Ashford will be moving 20 miles away to Canterbury. I have already chronicled my wife’s problems with Universal Credit. A pint of beer costs £4.00. I don’t even think about going to football anymore as I was priced out of that years ago (yet used to go to Selhurst Park with my mates as a kid on my pocket money). I can’t see how my kids are ever going to afford to get on the housing ladder. All three are already saddled with debt thanks to the student’s loans. I worked in an environment for 8 years where resources were constantly cut yet targets remained the same. All of this happened under the watch of the Tory Party. I have no problem with the creation of wealth, but surely it is common sense that we use that wealth to look after everyone in our society? The gap is widening between the have and the have nots. It will widen still further when the full effects of Brexit kick in. People who work to make a fairer society for all of us get ridiculed in the right wing press, owned by billionaires with an vested interest in keeping the status quo. Posters on here get called pejorative names if they dare support an opposing view to the enforced austerity of the last decade.

 

Something needs to change and that change must start with a voting system that gives a proportional voice in parliament to everyone who casts a vote. The current system does not work for you unless you are the party who wins and you voted for that party. We hear a lot about the will of the people, but it is only the will of some of the people. The losers get to put and and shut up and their opinions no longer count. We need all voices to be heard, yes that of Farage as much as I dislike his politics and we need to sort out an electoral system where everyone who casts a vote feels that vote has not been wasted. No one should have to vote tactically. You should vote for who you want, not to get rid of someone you don’t want.

 

Perhaps then we feel that we are actually all in it together.

[hypochondriac]

A really excellent twitter thread from a Conservative MP here. Food for thought for many in Labour I reckon though I doubt they will listen.

[shurlock]

A really excellent twitter thread from a Conservative MP here. Food for thought for many in Labour I reckon though I doubt they will listen.

 

Certainly agree with parts of this (on the balance between state and market and the role of aspiration) but some of it is facile caricature (as if John McDonnell is anything other than an union, industry man) and some of it is contradictory nonsense (see point 7 among others).

Edited 15 December, 2019 by shurlock

[eurosaint]

Just reflecting on the state of British politics in my lifetime. I was 18 in 1972 and voted Tory up until Thatcher’s 2nd term. My parents always voted Tory and as I just assumed they knew best. I was also put off Labour by those nasty union types like Arthur Scargill. In the 80’s I realised what a divisive and unpleasant person Thatcher was and that was the end of the road for me and the Tories. The Liberals seemed to have the same set of values so they had my vote up until the point that Clegg sold their soul to the Tories. Since Brexit I seemed to have become radicalised to the point where I spend far too much time with politics on a football forum. I also seem to have embraced socialism, something I would never have believed in my 20’s.

 

The point of my ramble is this. I now live in a country where child poverty is at an all time high and is growing. I spend time in Brighton to see my kids and the numbers of homeless on the streets is shocking. When I go to the supermarket there is a big container by the door to put food in for the food banks. The local arable fields are being concreted over to make way for thousands of new homes (not affordable for those at the bottom of the ladder) whilst brownfield sites lay undeveloped. I can’t get a doctor’s appointment for 2 to 3 weeks in advance. You can’t pick up a local paper without seeing the news of another stabbing or rape. The M20 has a 20+ lorry parking section on it ready for Brexit. The local hospital is at breaking point yet they are planning to build a massive new market town a few miles from it with no provision for an extension to the hospital. Our A&E which is 5 miles away in Ashford will be moving 20 miles away to Canterbury. I have already chronicled my wife’s problems with Universal Credit. A pint of beer costs £4.00. I don’t even think about going to football anymore as I was priced out of that years ago (yet used to go to Selhurst Park with my mates as a kid on my pocket money). I can’t see how my kids are ever going to afford to get on the housing ladder. All three are already saddled with debt thanks to the student’s loans. I worked in an environment for 8 years where resources were constantly cut yet targets remained the same. All of this happened under the watch of the Tory Party. I have no problem with the creation of wealth, but surely it is common sense that we use that wealth to look after everyone in our society? The gap is widening between the have and the have nots. It will widen still further when the full effects of Brexit kick in. People who work to make a fairer society for all of us get ridiculed in the right wing press, owned by billionaires with an vested interest in keeping the status quo. Posters on here get called pejorative names if they dare support an opposing view to the enforced austerity of the last decade.

 

Something needs to change and that change must start with a voting system that gives a proportional voice in parliament to everyone who casts a vote. The current system does not work for you unless you are the party who wins and you voted for that party. We hear a lot about the will of the people, but it is only the will of some of the people. The losers get to put and and shut up and their opinions no longer count. We need all voices to be heard, yes that of Farage as much as I dislike his politics and we need to sort out an electoral system where everyone who casts a vote feels that vote has not been wasted. No one should have to vote tactically. You should vote for who you want, not to get rid of someone you don’t want.

 

Perhaps then we feel that we are actually all in it together.

 

SOG, I actually agree with some of your points but fundamentally disagree on others however I do respect your right to have a differing opinion !

Although I have been very forthright in some of my responses, I assure you that it is not in any way personal (obviously I don’t know you anyway) !

If we ever do meet, I suggest that we stick to talking about Saints or footy in general

[aintforever]

A really excellent twitter thread from a Conservative MP here. Food for thought for many in Labour I reckon though I doubt they will listen.

 

Most of that is just Tory bullsh!te, Labour lost because their policies were too extreme and the only thing less popular than their leader was their stance on Brexit.

 

Even with their toxic leader, front bench full of mutants and barmy spending plans they would have kept most of the wall red if it wasn’t for Brexit.

[eurosaint]

Most of that is just Tory bullsh!te, Labour lost because their policies were too extreme and the only thing less popular than their leader was their stance on Brexit.

 

Even with their toxic leader, front bench full of mutants and barmy spending plans they would have kept most of the wall red if it wasn’t for Brexit.

 

TBF Hypo did say it was unlikely that you would listen

[shurlock]

God help the Labour Party if Les’ kindred spirit, Richard Burgon, makes a run at the leadership.

[Jonnyboy]

No idea why completely separate political parties should all join together and create a "cohesive strategy" just so it delivers the thing that you happen to want.

 

Jo Swinson didn't have a great campaign but she was spot on about the Labour leadership, as her views were echoed by voters all across the land.

 

It wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas as you so patronisingly describe it but it was the electorate rejecting, comprehensively, a pie in the sky manifesto and the worst political leader in history who wouldn't have been able to deliver it anyway.

 

Jo Swinson played her role given to her by the Establishment and ironically has done the most damage to the Remain cause. She could have had her referendum if she'd backed a No Confidence motion and installed Corbyn as temporary PM.

 

Maybe she didn't really care as it seems they plan to reward her failure with a place in the Lords.

[hypochondriac]

Most of that is just Tory bullsh!te, Labour lost because their policies were too extreme and the only thing less popular than their leader was their stance on Brexit.

 

Even with their toxic leader, front bench full of mutants and barmy spending plans they would have kept most of the wall red if it wasn’t for Brexit.

Sure it is. Exhibit A ladies and gents.

[Jonnyboy]

John Major resigned immediately, William Hague resigned immediately, so yes it is different. No one apart from that cretin would put their name to such an article after such an abject humiliation.

 

These defeated Tories must have said something presumably at some point after the election, and just like Cameron with the EU referendum I doubt any of them have ever said "everything I've ever stood for is wrong, it was all down to me, I'm going to sit in a cave self flagellating for a decade."

All politicians are just as bad as commentators on the internet, stuck in their views and self belief, and highly unlikely to ever change a huge amount.

Edited 15 December, 2019 by Jonnyboy

[Batman]

[Wes Tender]

“I want to be a doctor”.

 

FFS.

What’s BUPA’s number, what an advertisement for “our” NHS. If that was my daughter, I’d get her to have a good bath, wash her mouth out with soap, and teach her some respect. This is what soft arsed leftie parenting gets you.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

 

She isn't very couth, is she? It's a pity that she hasn't received a proper upbringing, I pity her. How sad that the democratic process has brought about a result that she feels so badly about. She's young and hates the party of government of this country, so if she somehow manages to qualify as a doctor, I suggest that she f*cks off to some other country where she can do some good. Please don't become a doctor in this country with your foul-mouthed attitude.

[Wes Tender]

And yet you don’t complain when a poster in here calls the centre party supporter LibDums?

 

Who is that, Soggy? I call them Lib Dumbs. They aren't fit to be called Lib Dems, as they clearly weren't in any way democratic when they proposed overturning the referendum vote.

 

Why do you think that they are the centre party? Are you naive enough to believe that Labour are left, Tories are right, therefore the Lib Dumbs must be the centre party?

[Wes Tender]

I have voted Labour twice in my life, in the last 2 elections, so I am not what Duckie could call a “lefty.” .

 

Yes you are. Be honest with yourself.

[Winnersaint]

“I want to be a doctor”.

 

FFS.

 

What’s BUPA’s number, what an advertisement for “our” NHS. If that was my daughter, I’d get her to have a good bath, wash her mouth out with soap, and teach her some respect. This is what soft arsed leftie parenting gets you.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

You p r I c k

[sadoldgit]

Yes you are. Be honest with yourself.

 

What’s your definition of a “lefty” then Wes?

[sadoldgit]

SOG, I actually agree with some of your points but fundamentally disagree on others however I do respect your right to have a differing opinion !

Although I have been very forthright in some of my responses, I assure you that it is not in any way personal (obviously I don’t know you anyway) !

If we ever do meet, I suggest that we stick to talking about Saints or footy in general

 

You are probably right Euro! Although it would be a very boring world if we all agreed about everything. I’d just settle for proportional representation right now

[sadoldgit]

Who is that, Soggy? I call them Lib Dumbs. They aren't fit to be called Lib Dems, as they clearly weren't in any way democratic when they proposed overturning the referendum vote.

 

Why do you think that they are the centre party? Are you naive enough to believe that Labour are left, Tories are right, therefore the Lib Dumbs must be the centre party?

 

You might have a low opinion of Liberals Wes but constantly calling them dumb isn’t helpful. As for not being democratic, isn’t part of the process giving a voice to what you believe in? If they had of won a working majority on the main point of their manifesto they would have won the democratic right to stop Brexit. We had a vote to join the EU years ago, is it undemocratic to overturn that vote now? Farage made it perfectly clear that he would have continued the fight to leave if the vote had been reversed. You and the other Brexiteers on here would be posting everyday calling for another vote. There is no right or wrong on this issue but both sides of the argument clearly feel very strongly about what they think is best for the country and those feelings and beliefs aren’t going to vanish overnight. Whilst there was still hope to stop it or to at least go for a second referendum, you can’t blame remainers for fighting their corner. If the situation was reversed I would expect you would feel the same. Still, it is done now and you have won the war. Perhaps we can re-engage in the argument in 20 years time when another generation try to rejoin the EU?

[Batman]

 

[whelk]

 

 

What’s that got to do with the election?

[Lord Duckhunter]

What a difference Boris has made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[hypochondriac]

What’s that got to do with the election?

A fair amount considering she inly had this meltdown after Boris won and she's a progressive champion of the left.

[whelk]

A fair amount considering she inly had this meltdown after Boris won and she's a progressive champion of the left.

 

Yeah she was such a major player. Big election story that.

[Batman]

A fair amount considering she inly had this meltdown after Boris won and she's a progressive champion of the left.

 

she was the one who dismissed the children raped in Rochdale, by suggesting that they would get raped/abused at "some point anyway".

 

horrible bit of kit that she is.