General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[hypochondriac]

This is pretty much the opposite of what I asked about. I've seen you and batman post page after page of anti labour stuff, so I've understood you don't like them. However you both make it clear you are choosing to vote conservative, so I would love to hear what you like about them at the moment. I don't see one good thing you've said about them, but it would be an interesting perspective. We'll take"I don't like labour" as read, so just say what makes the conservatives worth voting for.

I explained already there's not a lot I like about the Conservatives other than the fact they are not anywhere near as bad as Labour and I prefer a smaller government and less nanny state stuff and less identity politics. I expect a lot of people feel similar which is why this election is not particularly inspiring. Not an awful lot to be positive or inspired about- its the least bad option or "best of a bad bunch" as the factory workers said this afternoon on the BBC.

[norwaysaint]

I would just like to hear what's good about the Conservatives from someone who has that perspective. My facebook feed is full of left wing people saying why people should vote labour, I'm done with that and I see perfectly well why they probably shouldn't. However, people like the poster above have literally gone on for pages and pages warning us of the evils of labour, yet when challenged has nothing good at all to say about the conservatives, yet has spent almost no time warning about the evils of them. With close to 45% of the popular vote, they clearly have strengths, why are they rarely getting an airing on this thread? For example, the policy voting link above made it clear immigration and crime were a strength and were popular policies. I can't remember a conservative supporter waxing about the strengths in this area, but sooooo much moaning about Corbyn.

[hypochondriac]

I would just like to hear what's good about the Conservatives from someone who has that perspective. My facebook feed is full of left wing people saying why people should vote labour, I'm done with that and I see perfectly well why they probably shouldn't. However, people like the poster above have literally gone on for pages and pages warning us of the evils of labour, yet when challenged has nothing good at all to say about the conservatives, yet has spent almost no time warning about the evils of them. With close to 45% of the popular vote, they clearly have strengths, why are they rarely getting an airing on this thread? For example, the policy voting link above made it clear immigration and crime were a strength and were popular policies. I can't remember a conservative supporter waxing about the strengths in this area, but sooooo much moaning about Corbyn.

How is it difficult to understand? The main strengths are what I've already outlined- they aren't looking to alter the economy to a massive degree, they won't be going on quite the same level of unsustainable spending, they are supporting the rights of women by not blindly following the gender recognition act, they support a smaller government than the alternatives, they support freedom of speech to a slightly greater extent or at least are not as draconian about it, they are slightly better on business considering the regulations and rule changes the alternatives want. The implication of writing what, I didn't like about Labour is that the Conservatives will not be offering that same situation or at least to a lesser extent. The biggest reason is still that they aren't as extreme as the only alternative and imo won't cause as much long term damage to the country and obviously brexit as I've mentioned. Hardly a ringing endorsement but its all we have at this point. Edited 9 December, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Manuel]

I would just like to hear what's good about the Conservatives from someone who has that perspective. My facebook feed is full of left wing people saying why people should vote labour, I'm done with that and I see perfectly well why they probably shouldn't. However, people like the poster above have literally gone on for pages and pages warning us of the evils of labour, yet when challenged has nothing good at all to say about the conservatives, yet has spent almost no time warning about the evils of them. With close to 45% of the popular vote, they clearly have strengths, why are they rarely getting an airing on this thread? For example, the policy voting link above made it clear immigration and crime were a strength and were popular policies. I can't remember a conservative supporter waxing about the strengths in this area, but sooooo much moaning about Corbyn.

Low tax for business and individuals. In favour of individual wealth creation and inheritance. Equality of opportunity. Reputation for seeing National Security and Defence as important and not to be compromised. Immigration control (as per Brexit). "Tough on crime" - arguably not very though.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Lol!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

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[Manuel]

I can always remember Tories being popular but people rarely admitting to voting for them. Perhaps more so in this election than ever. Maybe this is why your FB feeds aren't full of Tory posts.

 

I have never heard anybody say they could never be friends with a Liberal or Labour supporter, but have heard that said about Tory voters. Sad really.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Corbyn’s storm troopers losing the plot now...

 

 

 

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[ecuk268]

Low tax for business and individuals. In favour of individual wealth creation and inheritance. Equality of opportunity. Reputation for seeing National Security and Defence as important and not to be compromised. Immigration control (as per Brexit). "Tough on crime" - arguably not very though.

 

Low tax? But they've said they're going to put billions into the NHS and recruit 20000 police officers to make up for the ones they got rid of. How will this be paid for?

 

Defence? UK armed forces numbers have fallen for the 9th year in succession.

 

Immigration? They're always had control over non-EU immigration but the numbers have increased over the last 5 years.

 

Crime? Violent crime up by 19% in the last year.

 

Do you think that you are being misled?

[norwaysaint]

How is it difficult to understand? The main strengths are what I've already outlined- they aren't looking to alter the economy to a massive degree, they won't be going on quite the same level of unsustainable spending, they are supporting the rights of women by not blindly following the gender recognition act, they support a smaller government than the alternatives, they support freedom of speech to a slightly greater extent or at least are not as draconian about it, they are slightly better on business considering the regulations and rule changes the alternatives want. The implication of writing what, I didn't like about Labour is that the Conservatives will not be offering that same situation or at least to a lesser extent. The biggest reason is still that they aren't as extreme as the only alternative and imo won't cause as much long term damage to the country and obviously brexit as I've mentioned. Hardly a ringing endorsement but its all we have at this point.

 

There's a lot more in this post worth reading, thank you. The last was just another repeated hatchet job on labour. I have no vote and political discussion on the internet rarely changes anyone's opinion, but I suspect telling people what's worth voting for will gain more respect and make people reconsider more than constantly telling them how stupid they are because they don't have the same viewpoint.

[norwaysaint]

Low tax for business and individuals. In favour of individual wealth creation and inheritance. Equality of opportunity. Reputation for seeing National Security and Defence as important and not to be compromised. Immigration control (as per Brexit). "Tough on crime" - arguably not very though.

 

Thanks. These are kind of party baseline fundamentals, yeah, I know that's tautology. That would make me imagine that you are pretty much a "career" Conservative voter. Do you think there are any circumstances under which you would ever vote Labour or Liberal?

[Manuel]

Low tax? But they've said they're going to put billions into the NHS and recruit 20000 police officers to make up for the ones they got rid of. How will this be paid for?

 

Defence? UK armed forces numbers have fallen for the 9th year in succession.

 

Immigration? They're always had control over non-EU immigration but the numbers have increased over the last 5 years.

 

Crime? Violent crime up by 19% in the last year.

 

Do you think that you are being misled?

Tories would definitely be lower tax for both business and individually than Labour would. It has always been the foundation of their policies.

 

The migration issue is muddied by Brexit but Labour are definitely pro migration rather than "controlled migration" i.e. the Aussie system that BJ keeps banging on about.

 

Defence and crime I can't really justify except that they are probably a result of belt-tightening regarding public spending as the post-Brexit slump continues to loom. Labour would look to spend more tax money in these areas I agree.

[hypochondriac]

There's a lot more in this post worth reading, thank you. The last was just another repeated hatchet job on labour. I have no vote and political discussion on the internet rarely changes anyone's opinion, but I suspect telling people what's worth voting for will gain more respect and make people reconsider more than constantly telling them how stupid they are because they don't have the same viewpoint.

I haven't called anyone stupid for voting Labour.

[hypochondriac]

Corbyn’s storm troopers losing the plot now...

 

 

 

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The last dying breaths of a vanquished foe.

[Manuel]

Thanks. These are kind of party baseline fundamentals, yeah, I know that's tautology. That would make me imagine that you are pretty much a "career" Conservative voter. Do you think there are any circumstances under which you would ever vote Labour or Liberal?

I have only ever voted Lib/Labour in the past. Like I say, I always thought of myself as pretty central and could easily be swayed slightly in either direction. This time I see myself as slightly to the right than I have ever considered myself though. I am thinking about not voting at all for the first time as I feel a little conflicted.

[sadoldgit]

Tories would definitely be lower tax for both business and individually than Labour would. It has always been the foundation of their policies.

 

The migration issue is muddied by Brexit but Labour are definitely pro migration rather than "controlled migration" i.e. the Aussie system that BJ keeps banging on about.

 

Defence and crime I can't really justify except that they are probably a result of belt-tightening regarding public spending as the post-Brexit slump continues to loom. Labour would look to spend more tax money in these areas I agree.

 

They might cut direct taxes but what about indirect taxes? VAT at 20% cannot be considered low.

[norwaysaint]

I haven't called anyone stupid for voting Labour.

 

Perhaps it's just how they come across, but I would say that's the intend I understand when I read them. I have no idea if that's down to you or me.

[norwaysaint]

I have only ever voted Lib/Labour in the past. Like I say, I always thought of myself as pretty central and could easily be swayed slightly in either direction. This time I see myself as slightly to the right than I have ever considered myself though. I am thinking about not voting at all for the first time as I feel a little conflicted.

 

But low tax and individual wealth creation are the basic staples of Tory policy and always have been. Is that a change in priority for you at a different time of life?

[Batman]

What would you say it is that most makes you want to vote Conservative? Most of your posts seem to be just trying to put down opposition supporters. It would be good to see a few positive posts.

 

I prefer their ideology compared to other options on offer.

[Batman]

The last dying breaths of a vanquished foe.

 

Wait for the protests on from Friday.

There will be many who just will not accept another defeat at the ballot box

[hypochondriac]

Perhaps it's just how they come across, but I would say that's the intend I understand when I read them. I have no idea if that's down to you or me.

Well all I can say is I have never called someone stupid for voting Labour and you must be reading intent into that which isn't there. I have good friends who are voting Labour and I disagree with them but they aren't stupid. I think you have to ignore a fair bit about the implications of Labour policy and turn a blind eye to some of the unsavoury stuff or maybe you a just fixated on one priority for you above everything else but that certainly doesn't make you stupid. Dismissing someone entirely because they happen to be voting for a different political party to you is ridiculous. Edited 9 December, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Manuel]

But low tax and individual wealth creation are the basic staples of Tory policy and always have been. Is that a change in priority for you at a different time of life?

Yes to some extent. Very broadly speaking, in my nativity I saw most business, especially big businesses as greedy, to be viewed with suspicion and to be regulated and taxed as much as society can get away with. I now believe we are better off letting business thrive and we all benefit as a result, whilst of course keeping a very close eye on corruption, exploitation, conditions etc. We do pretty well in this respect, in this country, in my opinion.

 

Secondly a change in my overall view is understanding the difference between equality of opportunity (desirable and arguably more Tory) and equality of outcome which I see as undesirable and see evidence of it running through particularly left wing thinking and policy.

[Wade Garrett]

I’m voted Labour all my life and have even been a member of the Labour Party.

 

I stopped voted for them, when, thanks to that idiot Ed Milliband, the Party was taken over by Momentum and a load of left-wing idiots. Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry are a manifestation of that.

 

I cannot vote for Corbyn and his politics. I voted for Brexit and the shenanigans of Brexit frustration in Parliament has led me into the arms of Boris. Hopefully, a defeat will make Labour look at themselves, get rid of Momentum, Corbyn and his idiot mates. Someone like Dan Jarvis could regain the centre-ground and get lifelong voters like me back.

[Batman]

Dismissing someone entirely because they happen to be voting for a different political party to you is ridiculous.

 

Which on here anyway, is ably demonstrated by a select few

[Plastic]

My wife and I do postal votes because we are lazy / busy (delete as appropriate). Choosing in which box to put my X has been a difficult experience. In honesty, I didn’t want to vote for any of them. In the end I had to settle for the one who least offends my conscience, but I’m still not happy with my decision.

[shurlock]

Corbyn’s storm troopers losing the plot now...

 

 

 

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Seems like you, Laura and others on here have been had by CCHQ

 

Don't believe everything you read pal.

[Sheaf Saint]

Seems like you, Laura and others on here have been had by CCHQ

 

Don't believe everything you read pal.

 

Is this like the situation the other day when a Tory MP made a video claiming that some Corbyn 'thugs' were trying to bash down the door of a market they had taken refuge in, and you could see through the glass it was actually just a couple of blokes with camera phones trying to get a picture?

[Weston Super Saint]

Do you think there are any circumstances under which you would ever vote Labour or Liberal?

 

Can you put together a precis of all the good points, something positive and upbeat?

[Sheaf Saint]

Seems like you, Laura and others on here have been had by CCHQ

 

Don't believe everything you read pal.

 

Is this like the situation the other day when a Tory MP made a video claiming that some Corbyn 'thugs' were trying to bash down the door of a market they had taken refuge in, and you could see through the glass it was actually just a couple of blokes with camera phones trying to get a picture?

 

Yes, it seems it is...

 

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1204084397500256259?s=19

 

And the BBC's chief political correspondent obliges her masters by dutifuly sharing the story without bothering to check the facts. Deary me.

[Sheaf Saint]

Jesus - the absolute state of Kuenssberg's timeline. She's desperately trying to backtrack and hide it, but her total bias is there for all to see. It's embarrassing really.

 

The credibility of the BBC news is now in shreds.

[sadoldgit]

The BBC managed not to show the footage of Johnson refusing to look at the picture of the boy on the reporters phone (which was quite shocking). It did however show Johnson taking the reporters phone out of his pocket and then look at it which was just plain weird. Why take his phone and put it in his pocket?

[sadoldgit]

Which on here anyway, is ably demonstrated by a select few

 

Would they be the people called “lefties,” “pinkos,” “snowflakes” etc. by some on here perchance?

[whelk]

Jesus - the absolute state of Kuenssberg's timeline. She's desperately trying to backtrack and hide it, but her total bias is there for all to see. It's embarrassing really.

 

The credibility of the BBC news is now in shreds.

 

6pm news is not exactly covering as Tories would wish.

[LGTL]

Corbyn’s storm troopers losing the plot now...

 

 

 

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What a load of pony.

[whelk]

I’m voted Labour all my life and have even been a member of the Labour Party.

 

I stopped voted for them, when, thanks to that idiot Ed Milliband, the Party was taken over by Momentum and a load of left-wing idiots. Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbott and Thornberry are a manifestation of that.

 

I cannot vote for Corbyn and his politics. I voted for Brexit and the shenanigans of Brexit frustration in Parliament has led me into the arms of Boris. Hopefully, a defeat will make Labour look at themselves, get rid of Momentum, Corbyn and his idiot mates. Someone like Dan Jarvis could regain the centre-ground and get lifelong voters like me back.

 

Into the arms of Boris. Fcking hell

[shurlock]

Is this like the situation the other day when a Tory MP made a video claiming that some Corbyn 'thugs' were trying to bash down the door of a market they had taken refuge in, and you could see through the glass it was actually just a couple of blokes with camera phones trying to get a picture?

 

Yes, it seems it is...

 

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1204084397500256259?s=19

 

And the BBC's chief political correspondent obliges her masters by dutifuly sharing the story without bothering to check the facts. Deary me.

 

Peston's been played like a fiddle as well, though, unlike the sociopathic Kuenssberg, he's had the professional integrity (if you can call it that) to apologise. She's just quietly deleted her tweet. Earlier today, she tried to compare Johnson's dissimulation over customs checks in NI with Corbyn's fib over watching the Queen. As one FT journo put it, that was a late but strong bid for False Equivalence Of The Year. Peter Oborne's name-and-shaming that ruffled a few feathers a few weeks ago was pretty mild all things considered.

[whelk]

What a load of pony.

 

Can’t trust that Tory chick

[shurlock]

You can forgive little Jamie when he has a rush of blood to the head and giddily posts about what he thinks is another terrorist attack which subsequently turns out to be an innocent car accident.

 

But you expect better from the national media

[hypochondriac]

Peston's been played like a fiddle as well, though, unlike the sociopathic Kuenssberg, he's had the professional integrity (if you can call it that) to apologise. She's just quietly deleted her tweet. Earlier today, she tried to compare Johnson's dissimulation over customs checks in NI with Corbyn's fib over watching the Queen. As one FT journo put it, that was a late but strong bid for False Equivalence Of The Year. Peter Oborne's name-and-shaming that ruffled a few feathers a few weeks ago was pretty mild all things considered.

She's apologised.

[shurlock]

She's apologised.

 

Finally. Probably Fran's had a word in her ear. Better than nothing I guess but I'd prefer she actually did her job.

Edited 9 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Jonnyboy]

Well all I can say is I have never called someone stupid for voting Labour and you must be reading intent into that which isn't there. I have good friends who are voting Labour and I disagree with them but they aren't stupid. I think you have to ignore a fair bit about the implications of Labour policy and turn a blind eye to some of the unsavoury stuff or maybe you a just fixated on one priority for you above everything else but that certainly doesn't make you stupid. Dismissing someone entirely because they happen to be voting for a different political party to you is ridiculous.

 

I'm beginning to think you are some sort of bot.

[Shroppie]

And presumably not the Brexit Party.

If you really want Brexit and have both Tory and Brexit candidates, my advice is to play it safe and vote for both.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

The BBC managed not to show the footage of Johnson refusing to look at the picture of the boy on the reporters phone (which was quite shocking). It did however show Johnson taking the reporters phone out of his pocket and then look at it which was just plain weird. Why take his phone and put it in his pocket?

 

Probably because he didn’t want to play his stupid game.

 

Brendan right on the money again.

 

http:// https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/boris-was-right-to-rebuke-itvs-cheap-journalism/

 

My snap dragon is a band 7 and a raving soft arsed leftie, and even she thinks this is fishy. Claims there’s no way they wouldn’t have found a trolley or chair and there’s no way the kid had pneumonia. Wouldn’t surprise me if the parents were pinkos or lefties.

 

 

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[The Kraken]

[hypochondriac]

I'm beginning to think you are some sort of bot.

Rest assured that you aren't stupid because you vote Labour.

[sadoldgit]

Probably because he didn’t want to play his stupid game.

 

Brendan right on the money again.

 

http:// https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/boris-was-right-to-rebuke-itvs-cheap-journalism/

 

My snap dragon is a band 7 and a raving soft arsed leftie, and even she thinks this is fishy. Claims there’s no way they wouldn’t have found a trolley or chair and there’s no way the kid had pneumonia. Wouldn’t surprise me if the parents were pinkos or lefties.

 

 

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I’m not sure holding a PM to account for the effects of their party’s underfunding of the NHS is hardly a stupid game Duckie.

[aintforever]

Probably because he didn’t want to play his stupid game.

 

Brendan right on the money again.

 

http:// https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/12/09/boris-was-right-to-rebuke-itvs-cheap-journalism/

 

My snap dragon is a band 7 and a raving soft arsed leftie, and even she thinks this is fishy. Claims there’s no way they wouldn’t have found a trolley or chair and there’s no way the kid had pneumonia. Wouldn’t surprise me if the parents were pinkos or lefties.

 

 

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Jesus wept.

[Sheaf Saint]

Finally. Probably Fran's had a word in her ear. Better than nothing I guess but I'd prefer she actually did her job.

 

Too little too late. She has now become the story herself.

 

In her tweet she refers to two senior Tory sources. It's her job to report their names if they are deliberately spreading falsehoods and using senior BBC 'journalists' as a conduit to smear opponents. That's the public interest story now.

[Jonnyboy]

Rest assured that you aren't stupid because you vote Labour.

 

Nice algorithm.

[Jonnyboy]

Too little too late. She has now become the story herself.

 

In her tweet she refers to two senior Tory sources. It's her job to report their names if they are deliberately spreading falsehoods and using senior BBC 'journalists' as a conduit to smear opponents. That's the public interest story now.

 

She's been their mouthpiece for years. The real establishment.

[hypochondriac]

Nice algorithm.

I'm sure that pretending all dissenting voices aren't real people makes it easier to cope with being a fanatical corbyn supporter but unfortunately you can't use that sort of deflection with the vote on Thursday. We will see how many people think like me and will reject the Corbyn McDonnell project.