General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[Sheaf Saint]

Another ‘no idea’

 

Interesting, considering you are certain it will happen

 

Short of having seen some top secret Tory party documents, how could he possibly be certain of any timescale?

 

It's a f*cking stupid question to ask, and the fact that he (nor any of us) can't answer it doesn't prove anything.

 

If I had to take a wild guess, I would assume that the timescale would in some loose way correlate to the time taken to ratify a trade deal with the US.

[Sheaf Saint]

Just in case anyone is still in any doubt...

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/the-president-the-us-private-health-giant-and-top-nhs-officials-special-relationships/

[norwaysaint]

I don't know if important parts of the NHS will be sold off either. I don't believe it will just because politicians and journalists say it will, but I certainly don't believe it won't happen just because Conservative politicians had reassured us it won't.

 

I'm glad so many on here have all the answers though. It makes it so much easier to know everything in definite terms.

[Batman]

Just in case anyone is still in any doubt...

 

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/the-president-the-us-private-health-giant-and-top-nhs-officials-special-relationships/

 

any doubt about what?

[Batman]

Short of having seen some top secret Tory party documents, how could he possibly be certain of any timescale?

 

It's a f*cking stupid question to ask, and the fact that he (nor any of us) can't answer it doesn't prove anything.

 

If I had to take a wild guess, I would assume that the timescale would in some loose way correlate to the time taken to ratify a trade deal with the US.

 

another no idea. thanks for trying though.

 

despite being certain it will happen

[sadoldgit]

another no idea. thanks for trying though.

 

despite being certain it will happen

 

So because a definite timeline can’t be established, something definitely isn’t going to happen. No wonder Johnson gets so many votes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I wish the NHS was for ****ing sale, we might get a decent health service then. I hope they hurry up and sell it before I get older and need to use it more.

 

I’ve used the health service in Greece, France, Spain , USA & UK and The UK is far and away the worst I’ve experienced.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Weston Super Saint]

Here's a funny story from "Money and Power: How Goldman Sachs Came to Rule the World"

 

 

 

If only he'd finished that sentence with the word 'Pal' everyone would think he was so much cooler than he actually is!

[sadoldgit]

I wish the NHS was for ****ing sale, we might get a decent health service then. I hope they hurry up and sell it before I get older and need to use it more.

 

I’ve used the health service in Greece, France, Spain , USA & UK and The UK is far and away the worst I’ve experienced.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Or maybe just finance it better and not run it down as it has been for the last decade? My wife and I have used it a lot in the last few years and mostly it has been okay. We have had some problems with it recently due to lack of staff. I used the health service in the US a few years ago and it was fine, but expensive. Whilst there I spoke to a lady who had kidney problems but could afford to take time off work as she had no health cover. If the NHS goes we will be left with people in the same situation. And before Batman kicks off again, you only have to look at the numbers of people using food banks and the level of child poverty to see how that could happen.

[Sheaf Saint]

any doubt about what?

 

Any doubt about the creeping Americanisation of the NHS under successive Tory Health Ministers.

 

Have you even read the article?

 

As for your cretinous attempt to shut down the debate by pointing out that I can't give an exact timescale - as always you are massively over-simplifying things. It's not a case of the whole thing being sold off as a single entity in one single deal. Do you not see that it has already begun? Are you so blind to the carving up of the NHS into smaller bodies and the awarding of contracts to external providers as a primer for the way things are going to go in future? Do the proven strong links between Tory ministers and US healthcare companies not set off loud alarm bells in your head? Or are you so blindly supportive of the Tories that you are prepared to ignore all the warning signs?

[Wes Tender]

Just in a lighter vein, let's all have a laugh at Nish Kumar, at the Lords Taverners event, as well received as a dose of the clap in a convent.

 

 

For all of you lefties for whom the poisonously smug Kumar is the comedian of choice, it must make excruciatingly painful viewing, watching him struggle to put a sentence together in front of a hostile audience that he completely misjudged.

[Trader]

It doesn’t mean to say that it isn’t going to be right at some point. There is no great love in the Tory party for the NHS and now you have people in place who have no qualms about what they do. The fact that discussion have already taken place with pharma companies in the US should be enough to ring alarm bells in the Tory faithful.

 

You know, I know, the Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems know, that for any party to actually do that would mean electoral suicide for a generation.

 

So it ain’t gonna happen.

[sadoldgit]

Just in a lighter vein, let's all have a laugh at Nish Kumar, at the Lords Taverners event, as well received as a dose of the clap in a convent.

 

 

For all of you lefties for whom the poisonously smug Kumar is the comedian of choice, it must make excruciatingly painful viewing, watching him struggle to put a sentence together in front of a hostile audience that he completely misjudged.

 

In that they were a bunch of drunk right wing morons?

[sadoldgit]

You know, I know, the Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems know, that for any party to actually do that would mean electoral suicide for a generation.

 

So it ain’t gonna happen.

 

Seriously? Don’t you think Johnson and chums won’t dress it up as a necessity as all a part of “Getting Brexit Done?”

[shurlock]

Just in a lighter vein, let's all have a laugh at Nish Kumar, at the Lords Taverners event, as well received as a dose of the clap in a convent.

 

 

For all of you lefties for whom the poisonously smug Kumar is the comedian of choice, it must make excruciatingly painful viewing, watching him struggle to put a sentence together in front of a hostile audience that he completely misjudged.

 

Nish Who?

 

Maybe I’ll be reincarnated as Nish Whatshisface - would be a new experience for me not to be able to handle a hostile audience

[hypochondriac]

In that they were a bunch of drunk right wing morons?

I thought you'd find someone like Nish Kumar funny. Says a lot.

[hypochondriac]

Nish Who?

 

Maybe I’ll be reincarnated as Nish Whatshisface - would be a new experience for me not to be able to handle a hostile audience [emoji38]

He's on the BBC all the time. He's abysmal.

[hypochondriac]

Another ex Labour mp urging people to vote tory- citing anti semitism he has personally received. There's a whole fleet of them now.

[Trader]

Seriously? Don’t you think Johnson and chums won’t dress it up as a necessity as all a part of “Getting Brexit Done?”

 

Nope.

[sadoldgit]

There was a brief debate of the local candidates on the local BBC news last night. The Tory candidate, Damian Collins, managed to show horn “Get Brexit done” twice in the first 20 seconds of his brief opening statement and 3 times before he finished. These people clearly haven’t meant a lesson since 2017 when “Strong and stable government” became a standing joke and back fired big time! Given the number of groans you hear in the tv when they trot out their mantra, perhaps they should find a new phrase to brain wash us with?

[sadoldgit]

Nope.

 

I guess that’s why they figure they will get away with it.

[aintforever]

Another ex Labour mp urging people to vote tory- citing anti semitism he has personally received. There's a whole fleet of them now.

 

It's almost as if campaigning for the rights of Palestinians has made Corbyn unpopular amongst some Jews?

[Guided Missile]

...would be a new experience for me not to be able to handle a hostile audience

I guess you're referring to Dr. David Kelly's widow...

[Weston Super Saint]

Or maybe just finance it better and not run it down as it has been for the last decade? My wife and I have used it a lot in the last few years and mostly it has been okay. We have had some problems with it recently due to lack of staff. I used the health service in the US a few years ago and it was fine, but expensive. Whilst there I spoke to a lady who had kidney problems but could afford to take time off work as she had no health cover. If the NHS goes we will be left with people in the same situation. And before Batman kicks off again, you only have to look at the numbers of people using food banks and the level of child poverty to see how that could happen.

 

Cool story bro'! You managed to squeeze in an anecdote about someone you spoke to which just happened to support your view, the NHS, food banks (your personal favourite) and child poverty!

 

Bravo!

[Wes Tender]

In that they were a bunch of drunk right wing morons?

 

...who went to the event to raise money for a very good cause, and invited this so-called comedian as entertainment. But the idiot totally misjudged the audience, as they were not leftie champagne socialists from the inner London bubble, and a live audience. Kumar's usual habitat is BBC TV programmes like the awful cringe-worthy "satirical" Mash Report, where the viewers are comprised of your average leftie metropolitan middle class PC brigade, who are also your typical remoaner voters. It took a really thick skinned ego for him to imagine for one second that his brand of "humour" would appeal to that audience.

 

But watching him struggle to maintain his dignity was far more amusing than his normal comedy routine, so from that point of view, booking him as the entertainment was a stroke of genius.

[hypochondriac]

It's almost as if campaigning for the rights of Palestinians has made Corbyn unpopular amongst some Jews?

Yeah that's definitely it. Definitely.

[Wes Tender]

As an added bonus, we now have Diane Abbott's private school and Oxbridge educated son accused of assaulting a policeman and her trying to shut it all up from the media. Not a good look for the prospective Home Secretary if the Marxist is elected as PM.

[hypochondriac]

As an added bonus, we now have Diane Abbott's private school and Oxbridge educated son accused of assaulting a policeman and her trying to shut it all up from the media. Not a good look for the prospective Home Secretary if the Marxist is elected as PM.

https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2781272

[sadoldgit]

As an added bonus, we now have Diane Abbott's private school and Oxbridge educated son accused of assaulting a policeman and her trying to shut it all up from the media. Not a good look for the prospective Home Secretary if the Marxist is elected as PM.

 

Look on the bright side, you can have plenty of fun at the black, female, Marxist’s expense.

[hypochondriac]

Look on the bright side, you can have plenty of fun at the black, female, Marxist’s expense.

What relevance does her being black or female have? Other than the fact she brings it up a lot of course.

[Batman]

Look on the bright side, you can have plenty of fun at the black, female, Marxist’s expense.

 

the fact you are bringing the tone of skin into this shows that you are a bit of a racist

[sadoldgit]

the fact you are bringing the tone of skin into this shows that you are a bit of a racist

 

Unlike you to completely miss the point.

[sadoldgit]

Swinson handled herself well against Neil this evening. It seemed to disarm him a bit when she held her hands up and admitted mistakes. He loves a fight, so don’t give him one. Still no sign of Johnson putting his neck on the block.

[hypochondriac]

Unlike you to completely miss the point.

Why did you mention her skin colour then?

[Jonnyboy]

Another ex Labour mp urging people to vote tory- citing anti semitism he has personally received. There's a whole fleet of them now.

 

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com/2019/11/im-jewish-im-voting-labour.html

[hypochondriac]

http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.com/2019/11/im-jewish-im-voting-labour.html

What's your point?

[aintforever]

What's your point?

 

Pretty much echos my point:

 

“For the record the sudden loss of Jewish support for Labour came when Miliband was leader who the Jewish Chronicle described as 'toxic' for Jewish voters. MIliband is Jewish. It was his support for recognition of Palestine before negotiations that did for him, they said. Being Jewish was no shield against this hostility.”

[hypochondriac]

Pretty much echos my point:

 

“For the record the sudden loss of Jewish support for Labour came when Miliband was leader who the Jewish Chronicle described as 'toxic' for Jewish voters. MIliband is Jewish. It was his support for recognition of Palestine before negotiations that did for him, they said. Being Jewish was no shield against this hostility.”

And yet all these ex Labour MPs wouldn't agree with you. So either they are all lying and it's some sort of conspiracy, or they are telling the truth and they genuinely are worried about rising levels of anti-semitism in the Labour Party. I'd be inclined to believe them myself over a hard left corbyn fanatic like Michael rosen.

[shurlock]

Pretty much echos my point:

 

“For the record the sudden loss of Jewish support for Labour came when Miliband was leader who the Jewish Chronicle described as 'toxic' for Jewish voters. MIliband is Jewish. It was his support for recognition of Palestine before negotiations that did for him, they said. Being Jewish was no shield against this hostility.”

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/how-ed-miliband-lost-the-jewish-vote/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-funding-crisis-jewish-donors-drop-toxic-ed-miliband-9849299.html?amp

[hypochondriac]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/04/how-ed-miliband-lost-the-jewish-vote/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-funding-crisis-jewish-donors-drop-toxic-ed-miliband-9849299.html?amp

Labour still having to answer questions on antisemitism tho - leak of 53 page legal submission to Equalities Commission presents evidence from more than 70 witnesses - party says they have speeded up processes and improved things but document paints different picture.

[OldNick]

Swinson handled herself well against Neil this evening. It seemed to disarm him a bit when she held her hands up and admitted mistakes. He loves a fight, so don’t give him one. Still no sign of Johnson putting his neck on the block.

So she admitted to bad judgement, not the best place to be to gain confidence.

[Wes Tender]

Swinson handled herself well against Neil this evening. It seemed to disarm him a bit when she held her hands up and admitted mistakes. He loves a fight, so don’t give him one. Still no sign of Johnson putting his neck on the block.

 

Swinson showed herself to be a bit confused. She doesn't want a second Scottish referendum because of the chaos it would cause Scotland. But she wants a second/third UK referendum on EU membership despite the chaos that would cause. Her confusion clouds the issue of a second/third referendum for the UK, because as Neil asked, what would her position be if in the event of a hung Corbyn Parliament, the SNP made their support for another UK referendum dependent on another Scottish referendum, would she support that in order to get another UK referendum?

 

What do you conclude from that, Soggy? Would she agree to the SNP demands for another Scottish referendum in order for us to have another one on our EU membership? As she wasn't capable of answering that, perhaps you might offer some conjecture about what she might do, as you thought she handled herself well.

[shurlock]

Labour still having to answer questions on antisemitism tho - leak of 53 page legal submission to Equalities Commission presents evidence from more than 70 witnesses - party says they have speeded up processes and improved things but document paints different picture.

 

It’s not an either-or. There are some vile individuals in the Labour Party who have indulged in longstanding antisemitic tropes and prejudices. Others are utterly convinced in the legitimacy of their cause but don’t know -and a smaller number frankly don’t care- where the boundary between support for the Palestinians, opposition to Israel’s actions, opposition to Israel itself, Zionism and antisemitism lies. In fairness many British Jews don’t know either and are no more qualified to arbitrate or police that boundary.

 

At the same time there was a huge shift away from Labour under Ed Miliband as the Spectator numbers (and others) pointedly illustrate. He was subject to some shocking, cynical and hysterical slurs from the Jewish community over his criticism of the Israeli government.

 

To be clear this is not a smoking gun; nor does it excuse the Labour Party’s painfully slow, unsatisfactory handling of antisemitism cases (though that is arguably a symptom of an institution on the defensive rather than a campaign against Jews per se - either way it’s of no comfort to those involved). But it is relevant context for unpacking some of the claims and counterclaims made about Labour and is conveniently forgotten by many.

Edited 5 December, 2019 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Swinson showed herself to be a bit confused. She doesn't want a second Scottish referendum because of the chaos it would cause Scotland. But she wants a second/third UK referendum on EU membership despite the chaos that would cause. Her confusion clouds the issue of a second/third referendum for the UK, because as Neil asked, what would her position be if in the event of a hung Corbyn Parliament, the SNP made their support for another UK referendum dependent on another Scottish referendum, would she support that in order to get another UK referendum?

 

What do you conclude from that, Soggy? Would she agree to the SNP demands for another Scottish referendum in order for us to have another one on our EU membership? As she wasn't capable of answering that, perhaps you might offer some conjecture about what she might do, as you thought she handled herself well.

 

It’s not confused pal. She sincerely believes that in terms of ensuring the country’s long-term stability the benefits from stopping Brexit outweigh the costs of a second referendum. On a Scottish referendum, she takes the opposite position. The two positions are not inconsistent, not least because the economic and political implications of Brexit and the UK’s relationship with the EU are not the same as Scottish independence. The only one who is confused is you Les. I guess belonging to a cult will do that to you though

Edited 5 December, 2019 by shurlock

[Sheaf Saint]

Labour still having to answer questions on antisemitism tho - leak of 53 page legal submission to Equalities Commission presents evidence from more than 70 witnesses - party says they have speeded up processes and improved things but document paints different picture.

 

Yes, Labour still has questions to answer. But if you're so determined to stamp antisemitism out of British politics then why have you so far remained completely silent about the fact that last week Theresa May unveiled a statue of Nancy Astor - a Nazi supporter who once proclaimed that "Hitler could be the answer to the Jewish problem"? Where is your faux outrage about that? Can you even imagine how much of a field day the media would be having if Corbyn had shown support for this? He would be getting absolutely slaughtered from all sides for it, by a right-wing dominated media who are hell-bent on stopping him at all costs.

 

Can you really not see how obvious it is that the level of criticism he has received over this issue is a direct result of his support for Palestinian rights? There's video footage (from well before 2015) of a former Israeli government minister openly admitting that they frequently use false accusations of antisemitism against other politicians as a means to deflect criticism of their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. Add in the fact that the JLM - who have been the most vocal about the issue - was essentially dormant up until Corbyn's election, at which time it was re-activated by a group of people with direct links to the Israeli embassy, and you can see a clear pattern emerging.

 

Like I said from the very beginning of this 'crisis' - if anyone is combating antisemitism in Labour, but ignoring it everywhere else, then they're not really combating antisemitism at all, they're actually just a c*nt who is cynically using it as a political weapon. In so doing, they are actually insulting the Jewish community and making them less safe, because it increases the chances of the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf' factor.

 

You make no secret of your dislike of Corbyn, and there are plenty of valid reasons why he deserves criticism. But whenever the AS issue rears its head in the media again, you just love to stick the boot into him over it. You can't help yourself. And you are so blinded by your pre-existing bias against him, you are utterly incapable of recognising that the massively disproportionate level of media coverage this issue has received since he became leader is entirely politically motivated.

[shurlock]

Yes, Labour still has questions to answer. But if you're so determined to stamp antisemitism out of British politics then why have you so far remained completely silent about the fact that last week Theresa May unveiled a statue of Nancy Astor - a Nazi supporter who once proclaimed that "Hitler could be the answer to the Jewish problem"? Where is your faux outrage about that? Can you even imagine how much of a field day the media would be having if Corbyn had shown support for this? He would be getting absolutely slaughtered from all sides for it, by a right-wing dominated media who are hell-bent on stopping him at all costs.

 

Can you really not see how obvious it is that the level of criticism he has received over this issue is a direct result of his support for Palestinian rights? There's video footage (from well before 2015) of a former Israeli government minister openly admitting that they frequently use false accusations of antisemitism against other politicians as a means to deflect criticism of their inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. Add in the fact that the JLM - who have been the most vocal about the issue - was essentially dormant up until Corbyn's election, at which time it was re-activated by a group of people with direct links to the Israeli embassy, and you can see a clear pattern emerging.

 

Like I said from the very beginning of this 'crisis' - if anyone is combating antisemitism in Labour, but ignoring it everywhere else, then they're not really combating antisemitism at all, they're actually just a c*nt who is cynically using it as a political weapon. In so doing, they are actually insulting the Jewish community and making them less safe, because it increases the chances of the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf' factor.

 

You make no secret of your dislike of Corbyn, and there are plenty of valid reasons why he deserves criticism. But whenever the AS issue rears its head in the media again, you just love to stick the boot into him over it. You can't help yourself. And you are so blinded by your pre-existing bias against him, you are utterly incapable of recognising that the massively disproportionate level of media coverage this issue has received since he became leader is entirely politically motivated.

 

Don’t agree with all of this but it’s pretty clear that many on here couldn’t care less about the Jewish community.

[hypochondriac]

Apologies should have been clear that was a copy and paste of a tweet not my personal opinion.

[hypochondriac]

Incredibly telling! Man goes to Labour rally and tells supporters some anti semitic things that Johnson has said, gets their condemnation and then tells them that in reality it was corbyn. Watch them get hung by their own words!

 

[Wes Tender]

It’s not confused pal. She sincerely believes that in terms of ensuring the country’s long-term stability the benefits from stopping Brexit outweigh the costs of a second referendum. On a Scottish referendum, she takes the opposite position. The two positions are not inconsistent, not least because the economic and political implications of Brexit and the UK’s relationship with the EU are not the same as Scottish independence. The only one who is confused is you Les. I guess belonging to a cult will do that to you though

 

Gavyn trying vainly to defend the indefensible, totally blinkered to the diametrically, contradictory stance of the girl Swinson. I didn't go into the difference between the economic and political implications between our leaving the EU and Scotland having their independence, I made the point that her opinion was that a second Scottish referendum would cause chaos, but that she ignored the chaos that a 2nd/third referendum in the UK would also cause. Don't you think that a vote to reverse Brexit would cause chaos?

 

Do try and address the point I made, instead of the point you think I ought to have made to suit your response.

 

Which cult do I belong to, Gavyn? The cult of wishing to respect the democratic decision of the referendum? I'm a democrat and proud to support that position. You obviously are not.

 

Perhaps you will be prepared to step up to the plate on her behalf and answer the conundrum I posed to Soggy.

[hypochondriac]

Pretty much echos my point:

 

“For the record the sudden loss of Jewish support for Labour came when Miliband was leader who the Jewish Chronicle described as 'toxic' for Jewish voters. MIliband is Jewish. It was his support for recognition of Palestine before negotiations that did for him, they said. Being Jewish was no shield against this hostility.”

Interesting. So submissions to the ehrc make it clear that the antisemitism they have received from Labour members have nothing to do with their views on Israel.

 

Also absolutely shocking examples from the 2018 Labour conference