General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[Lord Duckhunter]

What are you on about??

 

Johnson has only been in government for 5 minutes ... and those were spent in Parliamentary recess and him losing votes in Parliament. Ask about the difference between Javid and other chancellors once they have got their feet under the table.

 

#fruitcake

 

Anyone who doesn’t realise Boris is from the wet end of the party hasn’t been following politics for very long. It’s not really open to debate, it’s pretty much a fact. Once he gets his “feet under the table”, he’ll govern from the exact same place Cameron did. This “lurch to the right” is pure pony dished up by bitter remoaners who can’t forgive him for backing leave.

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

Anyone who doesn’t realise Boris is from the wet end of the party hasn’t been following politics for very long. It’s not really open to debate, it’s pretty much a fact. Once he gets his “feet under the table”, he’ll govern from the exact same place Cameron did. This “lurch to the right” is pure pony dished up by bitter remoaners who can’t forgive him for backing leave.

 

 

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If he is so "wet" why do we see the likes of Raab and Patel in the key roles of government? It certainly is not for their intellect. Why do the likes of Clarke and countless others no longer feel at home in the Conservative party?

 

Anyone who follows politics will know that the Conservatives ultimately lose power once they stop being the party of one nation and start to resemble a right wing cult.

[hypochondriac]

Oh dear. Religious leaders out in force to condemn Corbyn and his lack of action in combating anti semitism.

[Batman]

Oh dear. Religious leaders out in force to condemn Corbyn and his lack of action in combating anti semitism.

 

They are probably high from a cocktail of the Daily Mail and The Sun online

 

Damn internet

[aintforever]

Oh dear. Religious leaders out in force to condemn Corbyn and his lack of action in combating anti semitism.

 

I guess by urging people to "vote with their conscience" he means don't vote for anti-semites or people who call muslim women letterboxes and gays tanktopped bum-boys?

[hypochondriac]

I guess by urging people to "vote with their conscience" he means don't vote for anti-semites or people who call muslim women letterboxes and gays tanktopped bum-boys?

He certainly means don't vote for corbyn.

[sadoldgit]

A majority of the country didn't vote Labour or lib dem either. Your point only means something if you want the moral high ground, otherwise utterly pointless if you don't win power. It's like Hilary Clinton fans banging on and on about the popular vote.

 

No they didn’t, but that wasn’t the point was it. The point is that in our democracy we are governed by a minority government. It has nothing to do with moral high ground. It is a basic fact.

[Wes Tender]

If he is so "wet" why do we see the likes of Raab and Patel in the key roles of government? It certainly is not for their intellect. Why do the likes of Clarke and countless others no longer feel at home in the Conservative party?

 

Anyone who follows politics will know that the Conservatives ultimately lose power once they stop being the party of one nation and start to resemble a right wing cult.

 

It seems that although you infer that you follow politics, you have little understanding of the position the Tory Party holds in its current manifestation, regarding it being more right wing than historically. I think that you might be confused in your thinking because like Soggy, you make the mistake of labelling those who support our leaving of the EU as being right wing, so if that is indeed what you base your premise on, your own intellect is in question.

 

You ask why the likes of Clarke and others presumably such as Major, Gauke, Grieve, Heseltine, Soubry etc, do not feel at home in the Conservative Party, as if you cannot see the common denominator; their love of the EU and their inability to accept the democratic decision to leave it. If as a result they feel that they can no longer support the Conservatives, when a large majority of the Party supports that decision, then it is they who are out of step with the Party, rather than the other way around. Going back a couple of decades, they were the majority and the EU dissenters were called "the bastards". But those MPs didn't throw their toys out of the pram, they accepted that the Party was a broad church, and waited for the inevitable change in the national mood towards the EU which was inevitable as it became more federalist. Now those pro-EU Tories should accept the change in the Party's stance with good grace, instead of trying to stab it in the back with attempts to bring down their own government.

 

If they wish to leave the Tory Party, or treacherously side with the opposition parties, then good riddance to them. We will soon see whether the electorate consider the Tories to be a right wing cult or not. If they are elected with a decent majority, would you consider it to be the case that the UK approves of the right wing cult Tory Party, or that Brexit was the main issue among a large section of the electorate and that regardless of traditional Party loyalties, left or right, they were voting for the only main Party for leaving the EU?

[sadoldgit]

They are probably high from a cocktail of the Daily Mail and The Sun online

 

Damn internet

 

This would be the same Rabi who is a Tory supporter?

 

No mention of the car crash interview with Nicky Morgan where she is trying to persuade us that 19,000 of the the 50,000 “new” nurses are actually “new” even though they are existing nurses that the Tories are hoping to stop leaving. You can imagine the fun the Tory attack dogs would have with that if Abbot had been saying the same thing.

[sadoldgit]

Anyone who doesn’t realise Boris is from the wet end of the party hasn’t been following politics for very long. It’s not really open to debate, it’s pretty much a fact. Once he gets his “feet under the table”, he’ll govern from the exact same place Cameron did. This “lurch to the right” is pure pony dished up by bitter remoaners who can’t forgive him for backing leave.

 

 

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Do you really believe what you are saying Duckie? People are saying it because it is true. When people from your own party say it you really haven’t got much defence have you.

[sadoldgit]

Do you honestly, hand on heart, believe that that happens - genuine question!! - or are you using your food bank example as you seem to do for every point you make?

 

If there are 'genuinely' people paying £40, £50, £60 on a ticket to watch a football match AND relying on food banks, I'd have to question either their intellect / ability to budget for the important things in life (no, I don't think a ticket to a football match is more important than putting food on the table!!) or the set up of a food bank system that will allow someone to blow their money on a football ticket (or alcohol, drugs etc) knowing that it doesn't matter as there is 'free food' around the corner anyway!!!

 

As the Americans would say, “you do the math.” Given the number of people who either attend football matches, watch it on Sky either at home or in a club or pub, but football merchandise or indirectly financially support football in other ways, some must be involved in supplementary support somewhere. The basic point is the huge disparity in society. Do you accept that exists? I watch a guy kick off the other day about paying extra tax who is earning £80k a year. To me that is a ****ing fortune but he seemed to feel hard done by!

[Tamesaint]

It seems that although you infer that you follow politics, you have little understanding of the position the Tory Party holds in its current manifestation, regarding it being more right wing than historically. I think that you might be confused in your thinking because like Soggy, you make the mistake of labelling those who support our leaving of the EU as being right wing, so if that is indeed what you base your premise on, your own intellect is in question.

 

You ask why the likes of Clarke and others presumably such as Major, Gauke, Grieve, Heseltine, Soubry etc, do not feel at home in the Conservative Party, as if you cannot see the common denominator; their love of the EU and their inability to accept the democratic decision to leave it. If as a result they feel that they can no longer support the Conservatives, when a large majority of the Party supports that decision, then it is they who are out of step with the Party, rather than the other way around. Going back a couple of decades, they were the majority and the EU dissenters were called "the bastards". But those MPs didn't throw their toys out of the pram, they accepted that the Party was a broad church, and waited for the inevitable change in the national mood towards the EU which was inevitable as it became more federalist. Now those pro-EU Tories should accept the change in the Party's stance with good grace, instead of trying to stab it in the back with attempts to bring down their own government.

 

If they wish to leave the Tory Party, or treacherously side with the opposition parties, then good riddance to them. We will soon see whether the electorate consider the Tories to be a right wing cult or not. If they are elected with a decent majority, would you consider it to be the case that the UK approves of the right wing cult Tory Party, or that Brexit was the main issue among a large section of the electorate and that regardless of traditional Party loyalties, left or right, they were voting for the only main Party for leaving the EU?

 

If opinion polls are correct the Conservatives are likely to win a reasonable majority. I would say however that this is because of the poor state of the opposition rather than any desire of the country to support the right wing cult or indeed Brexit. Under Corbyn the Labour party is becoming a political movement rather than a party capable of Government. A Blair/ David Miliband leader would make mincemeat of the bumbling Johnson at an election.

 

Anyway we are jumping the gun a little. Voting has not yet happened and polls are often wrong. We are told that local factors will play a big part in this election.Let us wait and see.

[hypochondriac]

No they didn’t, but that wasn’t the point was it. The point is that in our democracy we are governed by a minority government. It has nothing to do with moral high ground. It is a basic fact.

But that would be the case whoever was in power so its a bit pointless to use it as a stick to beat the tories with just because they happen to be the ones who have most recently held power. That's the case for whichever party is in government.

[hypochondriac]

This would be the same Rabi who is a Tory supporter?

 

No mention of the car crash interview with Nicky Morgan where she is trying to persuade us that 19,000 of the the 50,000 “new” nurses are actually “new” even though they are existing nurses that the Tories are hoping to stop leaving. You can imagine the fun the Tory attack dogs would have with that if Abbot had been saying the same thing.

Behold the floating voter everyone!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Do you really believe what you are saying Duckie? People are saying it because it is true. When people from your own party say it you really haven’t got much defence have you.

 

I’ll ask again for the third time. Apart from Brexit, which policies have moved the Tories further to the right.

 

Are you really this dense. People have left the party because of Brexit, it’s that simple. If we hadn’t had a referendum Soubry , Stewart, Gauke and the others would still be in the party even if Boris was leading it.

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

I’ll ask again for the third time. Apart from Brexit, which policies have moved the Tories further to the right.

 

Are you really this dense. People have left the party because of Brexit, it’s that simple. If we hadn’t had a referendum Soubry , Stewart, Gauke and the others would still be in the party even if Boris was leading it.

 

 

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Clearly I am that dense because I believe them when I read and here ex Tories say the party has been hijacked by the right. I here those of the far right like Robinson and Hopkins supporting Johnson. I see people like you cheering when moderates are kicked out. Silly me for getting it so wrong eh?

[hypochondriac]

Clearly I am that dense because I believe them when I read and here ex Tories say the party has been hijacked by the right. I here those of the far right like Robinson and Hopkins supporting Johnson. I see people like you cheering when moderates are kicked out. Silly me for getting it so wrong eh?

 

If those on the hard left like Morning Star support Corbyn, does that make him hard left? Just wondering.

[sadoldgit]

Behold the floating voter everyone!

 

So you can’t be a floating voter without having a view of what is in front of you? This ranks up there with your view that people of a certain religious persuasion have similar features. I have made it perfectly clear that I want the Tories out in this election. I have also made it perfectly clear that I have voted for all three of the main political parties since I was 18 so I think it is perfectly reasonable to described myself as a floating voter, particularly as I haven’t decided which of the opposition parties I am going to vote for yet. But hey, let’s not deal with the issues. You do as Boris does, deflection. Classic Dom.

[hypochondriac]

So you can’t be a floating voter without having a view of what is in front of you? This ranks up there with your view that people of a certain religious persuasion have similar features. I have made it perfectly clear that I want the Tories out in this election. I have also made it perfectly clear that I have voted for all three of the main political parties since I was 18 so I think it is perfectly reasonable to described myself as a floating voter, particularly as I haven’t decided which of the opposition parties I am going to vote for yet. But hey, let’s not deal with the issues. You do as Boris does, deflection. Classic Dom.

"Deal with the issues, don't deflect" says the poster who literally just ignored the words of the chief Rabbi and the Archbishop of Canterbury by suggesting they are Tory stooges. Maybe try and practice what you preach a bit and you'd earn a bit more respect.

[whelk]

As the Americans would say, “you do the math.” Given the number of people who either attend football matches, watch it on Sky either at home or in a club or pub, but football merchandise or indirectly financially support football in other ways, some must be involved in supplementary support somewhere. The basic point is the huge disparity in society. Do you accept that exists? I watch a guy kick off the other day about paying extra tax who is earning £80k a year. To me that is a ****ing fortune but he seemed to feel hard done by!

 

Do you understand a venn diagram? Those that use food banks should have no overlap with those that pay to go or watch a PL match. So your point that same people are contributing doesn't really stack up and is a facile point anyway. The market is the market

[hypochondriac]

Unfortunately there are aggressive idiots on all sides of the political spectrum who make fools of themselves. Take this guy for instance:

 

 

"Go to a White Country." Hmm...

 

Good of the campaigner filming to stay so composed.

[Wes Tender]

If opinion polls are correct the Conservatives are likely to win a reasonable majority. I would say however that this is because of the poor state of the opposition rather than any desire of the country to support the right wing cult or indeed Brexit. Under Corbyn the Labour party is becoming a political movement rather than a party capable of Government. A Blair/ David Miliband leader would make mincemeat of the bumbling Johnson at an election.

 

Anyway we are jumping the gun a little. Voting has not yet happened and polls are often wrong. We are told that local factors will play a big part in this election.Let us wait and see.

 

As you say, there is still time before the election for the political landscape to change. However, what your response is very light on, is a defence of your assertion that the Tory Party is starting to resemble a right wing cult. It simply isn't. As I said, supporting Brexit does not make the party right wing.

 

You deflect from your argument that the Tories are a right wing cult by claiming that Labour is becoming a political movement. Aren't all political parties political movements? Whether Labour were capable of appointing a leader more electable than Corbyn, depends on whether their membership could purge the party of the extreme left-wing Momentum activists who hold sway over it. It is a bit futile indulging in whataboutery; the situation is what it is. If Labour loses ignominiously, there will be pressure on them to replace Corbyn with a more moderate leader, but if the membership appoints another leftie, then the formation of a breakaway Blairite even newer New Labour Party is on the cards. Just as Cameron's Tories were close to Blair's Labour, which in turn was Tory-lite, this new Party would be close to where Boris is apart from it being pro-remain. But then again, if Boris wins a substantial majority, Brexit happens and the remain faction becomes increasingly irrelevant.

[badgerx16]

So, Labour are anti Jew and the Conservatives are anti Muslim. Which religious group are the LibDems against ?

[sadoldgit]

Swinson has missed a trick there. She needs to go out and abuse some Buddhists pronto!

[hypochondriac]

Swinson has missed a trick there. She needs to go out and abuse some Buddhists pronto!

Looks like the man charged with investigating antisemitism in the Labour Party considers criticism by the Rabbi to be "justified" yet you were dismissing it on the basis that he made some supportive comments of Boris once. Fair to say his criticism has some validity?

 

Edited 26 November, 2019 by hypochondriac

[Sheaf Saint]

So, Labour are anti Jew and the Conservatives are anti Muslim. Which religious group are the LibDems against ?

 

I think it goes a bit further than that...

 

https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1199304826468876288

[hypochondriac]

Repost

[sadoldgit]

Looks like the man charged with investigating antisemitism in the Labour Party considers criticism by the Rabbi to be "justified" yet you were dismissing it on the basis that he made some supportive comments of Boris once. Fair to say his criticism has some validity?

 

 

Don’t recall saying there wasn’t a problem. Just pointing out the support for Johnson from the Chief Rabbi when Johnson became leader of the Tories.

 

Corbyn must be gutted that the printers missed off the bit about The Final Solution is his manifesto don’t you think?

[hypochondriac]

Don’t recall saying there wasn’t a problem. Just pointing out the support for Johnson from the Chief Rabbi when Johnson became leader of the Tories.

 

Corbyn must be gutted that the printers missed off the bit about The Final Solution is his manifesto don’t you think?

Are you deliberately exaggerating things in an effort to minimise the very real concern that an enormous number of Jews in the UK are feeling about Corbyn potentially becoming Prime Minister? Combined with the Falconer comment, how unfortunate that a deficit of leadership has led to this shameful situation and Jews have my utmost sympathy in this regard. I went to a bat mitzvah a couple of weeks ago with some family friends and the concern they are feeling is very real.

[badgerx16]

I think it goes a bit further than that...

 

 

Is he back on the Columbian marching powder ?

[Sheaf Saint]

Is he back on the Columbian marching powder ?

 

Must be. It's the only explanation I can think of for someone in his position exercising such an astonishing error of judgement.

[hypochondriac]

Must be. It's the only explanation I can think of for someone in his position exercising such an astonishing error of judgement.

What are you talking about?

[badgerx16]

What are you talking about?

The man who, as Education Secretary, wanted all children to achieve above average grades, is now quoting Stormzy lyrics so as to appear 'cool' when exchanging tweets.

[hypochondriac]

The man who, as Education Secretary, wanted all children to achieve above average grades, is now quoting Stormzy lyrics so as to appear 'cool' when exchanging tweets.

It's a bit cringe and Michael gove is a bit of a berk but astonishing error of judgement? Come on that's ridiculous.

[Sheaf Saint]

It's a bit cringe and Michael gove is a bit of a berk but astonishing error of judgement? Come on that's ridiculous.

 

Entitled white politician, who just loves to tell people how the leader of the opposition is a racist, engages in lazy racist stereotypes against a black rapper because he disagrees with his political stance.

 

Like I said - astonishing error of judgement.

[shurlock]

Are you deliberately exaggerating things in an effort to minimise the very real concern that an enormous number of Jews in the UK are feeling about Corbyn potentially becoming Prime Minister? Combined with the Falconer comment, how unfortunate that a deficit of leadership has led to this shameful situation and Jews have my utmost sympathy in this regard. I went to a bat mitzvah a couple of weeks ago with some family friends and the concern they are feeling is very real.

 

 

“ Weird that people would highlight it when the "side" they aren't on does it but ignore it from their own side”

 

Let’s just acknowledge there are very real problems on both sides. And no it’s not a matter of false equivalence.

[hypochondriac]

Entitled white politician, who just loves to tell people how the leader of the opposition is a racist, engages in lazy racist stereotypes against a black rapper because he disagrees with his political stance.

 

Like I said - astonishing error of judgement.

Lazy racist stereotype? He's quoting his lyrics you ninny. Considering that a lazy racist stereotype means you would have to engage in the absolute worst type of bad faith reading possible. I know you consider yourself balanced and politically neutral but maybe take a step back and realise that you sound mental and the worst type of faux offended twitter user.

 

Anyone who would pretend to be offended or consider that type of thing an astonishing error of judgement won't be voting Conservative anyway so I doubt he gives a toss anyway.

[hypochondriac]

“ Weird that people would highlight it when the "side" they aren't on does it but ignore it from their own side”

 

Let’s just acknowledge there are very real problems on both sides. And no it’s not a matter of false equivalence.

Fair enough. I'm happy to engage with the issues from both sides provided we leave whatabouttery out of it which seems difficult to do for some.

[Sheaf Saint]

Lazy racist stereotype? He's quoting his lyrics you ninny. Considering that a lazy racist stereotype means you would have to engage in the absolute worst type of bad faith reading possible. I know you consider yourself balanced and politically neutral but maybe take a step back and realise that you sound mental and the worst type of faux offended twitter user.

 

Anyone who would pretend to be offended or consider that type of thing an astonishing error of judgement won't be voting Conservative anyway so I doubt he gives a toss anyway.

 

OK, hold my hands up time - I didn't realise those were actual Stormzy lyrics (I'm a middle-aged white bloke - why would I? ) so I agree in that context it doesn't seem quite as awful as if he had just decided to pretend to be Jamaican in order to make a point. It's still a very stupid look for someone like Gove though.

 

I agree with your last point though, as that's the way politics is these days (and probably always has been to a degree). Just look at Trump as an example - he can go on stage at an election rally and disgracefully mock a disabled person who had justifiably criticised him, yet his supporters simply don't care and still voted for him in their millions anyway.

[sadoldgit]

“ Weird that people would highlight it when the "side" they aren't on does it but ignore it from their own side”

 

Let’s just acknowledge there are very real problems on both sides. And no it’s not a matter of false equivalence.

 

Indeed there are. I recently heard Johnson attack Corbyn for not doing enough to stamp out anti- semitism within the Labour Party. Fair enough, and I’m sure that Andrew Neil will give him a proper grilling about it during their head to head on BBC1 tonight. But what exactly is Johnson doing about Islamophobia within his own party? Wasn’t he going to launch an investigation into it? Can any Tories on here tell us how that is coming along?

[shurlock]

Fair enough. I'm happy to engage with the issues from both sides provided we leave whatabouttery out of it which seems difficult to do for some.

 

But it’s not a question of whatabouttery, is it?

 

The context in which Chief Rabbi intervened is critical. Intentionally or unintentionally, he made a political statement in an election where voters are required to compare alternatives: if not a vote for Corbyn, then who? Which makes it perfectly reasonable, if not essential, to assess the Conservatives record on issues of racism. I assume you understand how elections work. This is especially true as the Chief Rabbi is not only purporting to talk on behalf of the Jewish community and making a discrete point about its treatment but also how Corbyn poses a threat to the moral compass of the country as a whole. Again such a statement begs a broader assessment.

Edited 26 November, 2019 by shurlock

[sadoldgit]

Right on cue, the Muslim Council have now come out and criticised the Tories about Islamophobia in their party.

1-1

[sadoldgit]

Duckie! Lord Heseltine has come out and called to Tory voters to vote for the Libdems or independent candidates. He served under the “Great Lady.” Clearly a wet, Pinko, lefty.

[hypochondriac]

OK, hold my hands up time - I didn't realise those were actual Stormzy lyrics (I'm a middle-aged white bloke - why would I? ) so I agree in that context it doesn't seem quite as awful as if he had just decided to pretend to be Jamaican in order to make a point. It's still a very stupid look for someone like Gove though.

 

I agree with your last point though, as that's the way politics is these days (and probably always has been to a degree). Just look at Trump as an example - he can go on stage at an election rally and disgracefully mock a disabled person who had justifiably criticised him, yet his supporters simply don't care and still voted for him in their millions anyway.

I accept the apology. Glad to see you're not quite as reactionary as your post seemed. Edited 26 November, 2019 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

Right on cue, the Muslim Council have now come out and criticised the Tories about Islamophobia in their party.

1-1

Archbishop has also criticised Corbyn. 2-1. See we can all play this game.

[hypochondriac]

But it’s not a question of whatabouttery, is it?

 

The context in which Chief Rabbi intervened is critical. Intentionally or unintentionally, he made a political statement in an election where voters are required to compare alternatives: if not a vote for Corbyn, then who? Which makes it perfectly reasonable, if not essential, to assess the Conservatives record on issues of racism. I assume you understand how elections work. This is especially true as the Chief Rabbi is not only purporting to talk on behalf of the Jewish community and making a discrete point about its treatment but also how Corbyn poses a threat to the moral compass of the country as a whole. Again such a statement begs a broader assessment.

The point I was making is soggy in particular but also others have almost no posts about antisemitism without talking about Conservative islamaphobia. What that doesn't do is discuss the very real problems and the possible solutions, it just looks like avoidance of the issue or downplaying.

[hypochondriac]

Right on cue, the Muslim Council have now come out and criticised the Tories about Islamophobia in their party.

1-1

It's a tap in for the Hindus at the back post. 3-1.

 

[hypochondriac]

Anil Bhanot is probably dirty Tory supporting scum though so it's probably nothing.

[Wes Tender]

Duckie! Lord Heseltine has come out and called to Tory voters to vote for the Libdems or independent candidates. He served under the “Great Lady.” Clearly a wet, Pinko, lefty.

 

The penny finally drops with a clang, Soggy. Him and Clark both, although to be fair to Clark, at least he hasn't stooped as low as to call on Conservatives to vote for the Lib Dumbs, as far as I'm aware

[hypochondriac]

Blimey. It really. Is going from bad to worse today: