General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[norwaysaint]

There's going to have been 2 elections and 2 unelected PMs in 3 and a half years, so yes, probably.

 

Both of those PMs were elected to parliament by their constituencies. That's the only electing the people ever do for PM in the UK. The party have always chosen their own leader. The people didn't choose Blair or Cameron for PM either. Most people didn't get to vote for either of those two.

[shurlock]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/oct/24/vote-may-open-door-to-more-parliamentary-bullying-claims

 

And? Some historical allegations that he swore and shouted at colleagues (emphasis allegations). I thought tempers got pretty frayed in the kitchen (I’ve watched Gordon Ramsay) and you’d have bit more of a backbone Jamie.

Edited 31 October, 2019 by shurlock

[Winnersaint]

Not sure it's a right wing thing, it's more an angry geriatric thing.

 

More like Workington man shifted south thing

[badgerx16]

Both of those PMs were elected to parliament by their constituencies. That's the only electing the people ever do for PM in the UK. The party have always chosen their own leader. The people didn't choose Blair or Cameron for PM either. Most people didn't get to vote for either of those two.

 

I beg to differ; Blair and Cameron were leaders of their parties during General Elections, and therefore whichever won a majority in the Commons would become PM. Anybody voting Labour in the upcoming election is endorsing Corbyn as PM, similarly voting Conservative is support for Boris. A hung Parliament, with a resulting coalition, is where the fun starts.

Boris is currently an unelected PM, as May was before her GE, and as was Gordon Brown.

Edited 31 October, 2019 by badgerx16

[norwaysaint]

I beg to differ; Blair and Cameron were leaders of their parties during General Elections, and therefore whichever won a majority in the Commons would become PM. Anybody voting Labour in the upcoming election is endorsing Corbyn as PM, similarly voting Conservative is support for Boris. A hung Parliament, with a resulting coalition, is where the fun starts.

 

You only get to vote for your local MP. That's just a fact. The person leading the party that a candidate belongs to might influence you, but you still only choose your MP. You can't really argue this one. It's not an opinion.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I beg to differ; Blair and Cameron were leaders of their parties during General Elections, and therefore whichever won a majority in the Commons would become PM. Anybody voting Labour in the upcoming election is endorsing Corbyn as PM, similarly voting Conservative is support for Boris. A hung Parliament, with a resulting coalition, is where the fun starts.

Boris is currently an unelected PM, as May was before her GE, and as was Gordon Brown.

 

Pony.

 

We vote for MP’s and it is then down to MP’s to decide who becomes PM. Boris is as elected a PM as Tony Blair or even Maggie Thatcher was.

 

 

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[Sheaf Saint]

You only get to vote for your local MP. That's just a fact. The person leading the party that a candidate belongs to might influence you, but you still only choose your MP. You can't really argue this one. It's not an opinion.

 

This is technically true, but I would wager that a great many people go to the polls and vote based purely on which party they want in government and who they want as PM.

 

If you asked everyone coming out of your polling station on election day who they just voted for, the vast majority would give you the party or party leader's name, and a large number of them wouldn't even be able to tell you the name of the local candidate despite having just put a cross by their name.

 

That's the reality of the situation.

 

Oh and also remember Johnson's accusation that Gordon Brown had no mandate to be PM when he took over from Blair, and his insistence that he should call an election immediately or be an illegitimate PM.

[norwaysaint]

This is technically true, but I would wager that a great many people go to the polls and vote based purely on which party they want in government and who they want as PM.

 

 

Yes, they are influenced greatly by that alongside many other factors.

 

Then they get to vote for their local MP.

[Whitey Grandad]

Pony.

 

We vote for MP’s and it is then down to MP’s to decide who becomes PM. Boris is as elected a PM as Tony Blair or even Maggie Thatcher was.

 

 

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True, but that doesn't make it right.

 

And you only have tyo look at the anti-Corbyn messages on here to see that this election is as much about personalities as it is about parties.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

Oh and also remember Johnson's accusation that Gordon Brown had no mandate to be PM when he took over from Blair, and his insistence that he should call an election immediately or be an illegitimate PM.

 

Brown didn’t even face an election to become party leader, he was just handed it on a plate as part of a grubby deal with Blair. Boris faced a robust process that involved MP’s & members.

 

Boris has called an election, Brown took nearly 3 years to do so.

 

 

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

Brown didn’t even face an election to become party leader, he was just handed it on a plate as part of a grubby deal with Blair. Boris faced a robust process that involved MP’s & members.

 

Boris has called an election, Brown took nearly 3 years to do so.

 

 

 

 

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Come off it. He only called an election because he had lost his majority. If he had the same majority as Brown he would never have called an election.

[badgerx16]

Pony.

 

We vote for MP’s and it is then down to MP’s to decide who becomes PM. Boris is as elected a PM as Tony Blair or even Maggie Thatcher was.

 

 

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Wrong - the Prime Minister is appointed by the Queen, on the advice of the Privy Council and at Her prerogative, as being the person most likely to command a majority in the House of Commons, usually the leader of the majority party. Therefore, by voting for a particular candidate in your constituency, you are endorsing that party's leader as a potential PM. If, however, the leader of a majority party in a GE loses his/her seat, then a nominee from that party's MPs would be selected.

The only 'recent' exception was Churchill in 1940, who was nominated by Lord Halifax and endorsed by Chamberlain despite not being the leader of the Conservatives.

Edited 31 October, 2019 by badgerx16

[RedArmy]

Pony.

 

We vote for MP’s and it is then down to MP’s to decide who becomes PM. Boris is as elected a PM as Tony Blair or even Maggie Thatcher was.

 

 

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We vote for those MP’s based on a manifesto from their party that is decided in large by their leader at the time. If that leader changes and decides they’re going to run things their way then they no longer have a mandate from the people to run the country.

 

It should be made law that there has to be a general election within 3 months of a change of prime minister.

[warsash saint]

If we don't like the election result, can we call for a re-run?

 

That's how democracy works nowadays

 

Should there be a 'wink' after this remark or is just a stupid post??

[OldNick]

True, but that doesn't make it right.

 

And you only have tyo look at the anti-Corbyn messages on here to see that this election is as much about personalities as it is about parties.

Its about his extreme left wing agenda, and the people behind him. If that doesn't concern you Iam worried. If he gets in you will see a change in our society that will make this nation unrecognisable from the one we grew up in.

The civil service will not be impartial and he has stated himself that it will be trained accordingly. The people he says he's going to hit will be off and they will take the money elsewhere, the vast majority of the tax earners for the nation will bear the brunt of the taxes of envy and the seemingly harmless old Uncle will show his claws.

Watch all the old favours called in by his Republican friends, Adams will be on the phone 'Hi Jerry, remember that meal we had and the all conversations that perhaps we shouldn't have had.....' Watch the BBC series the troubles and see how ruthless a man Adams is.

[Batman]

We vote for those MP’s based on a manifesto from their party that is decided in large by their leader at the time. If that leader changes and decides they’re going to run things their way then they no longer have a mandate from the people to run the country.

 

It should be made law that there has to be a general election within 3 months of a change of prime minister.

 

Boris had to try 4 times to get one........

[OldNick]

Apparently 'Brexit is not that complicated'

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

It should be made law that there has to be a general election within 3 months of a change of prime minister.

 

What a ridiculous idea. Goes completely against our system of democracy.

 

It’s also completely unworkable. If someone becomes PM, by definition, he has the numbers to repeal any such law. What is it with you lefties, you just want law after law after law. If you see something you don’t like, legislate it away. There’s far too many laws as it is, don’t go around making pointless ones up.

 

 

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[norwaysaint]

Come on guys, Will you stop putting up ridiculous arguments that manage to put Duckhunter in the right? I'm finding it hard to deal with. I'm sure even he's confused by it.

[badgerx16]

Come on guys, Will you stop putting up ridiculous arguments that manage to put Duckhunter in the right? I'm finding it hard to deal with. I'm sure even he's confused by it.

Where is he in the right ? He's wrong on how the PM is installed after a GE.

[sadoldgit]

Its about his extreme left wing agenda, and the people behind him. If that doesn't concern you Iam worried. If he gets in you will see a change in our society that will make this nation unrecognisable from the one we grew up in.

The civil service will not be impartial and he has stated himself that it will be trained accordingly. The people he says he's going to hit will be off and they will take the money elsewhere, the vast majority of the tax earners for the nation will bear the brunt of the taxes of envy and the seemingly harmless old Uncle will show his claws.

Watch all the old favours called in by his Republican friends, Adams will be on the phone 'Hi Jerry, remember that meal we had and the all conversations that perhaps we shouldn't have had.....' Watch the BBC series the troubles and see how ruthless a man Adams is.

 

You sound like an editorial from the Mail, Express or Sun Nick. We need a change of Government. The poorer members of society need help. The middle classes need help. Character assassination is all well and good what what we need is a PM and a party with very different values than those of Johnson’s and his Tories.

[sadoldgit]

You only get to vote for your local MP. That's just a fact. The person leading the party that a candidate belongs to might influence you, but you still only choose your MP. You can't really argue this one. It's not an opinion.

 

I know plenty of people who don’t know who there local MP is. Technically we vote for our local MPs but I do believe that most people vote based on the leader of a party. That is why the right wing press spend so much time and energy attacking Corbyn.

[shurlock]

Its about his extreme left wing agenda, and the people behind him. If that doesn't concern you Iam worried. If he gets in you will see a change in our society that will make this nation unrecognisable from the one we grew up in.

The civil service will not be impartial and he has stated himself that it will be trained accordingly. The people he says he's going to hit will be off and they will take the money elsewhere, the vast majority of the tax earners for the nation will bear the brunt of the taxes of envy and the seemingly harmless old Uncle will show his claws.

Watch all the old favours called in by his Republican friends, Adams will be on the phone 'Hi Jerry, remember that meal we had and the all conversations that perhaps we shouldn't have had.....' Watch the BBC series the troubles and see how ruthless a man Adams is.

 

If -and its a big if, the manifesto is anything like the 2017 GE manifesto, your fears are unfounded, bordering on the hysterical. Work by IFS and Citi has shown that Boris Johnson has already raised public spending to the path proposed by Corbyn in the 2017 GE.

[RedArmy]

What a ridiculous idea. Goes completely against our system of democracy.

 

It’s also completely unworkable. If someone becomes PM, by definition, he has the numbers to repeal any such law. What is it with you lefties, you just want law after law after law. If you see something you don’t like, legislate it away. There’s far too many laws as it is, don’t go around making pointless ones up.

 

 

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Lefty.

 

You are a wally.

[RedArmy]

Also LOL at the idea of a PM having the numbers to get what they want passed in the House of Commons.

 

We wouldn’t be in this mess if that was true. Idiot.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Also LOL at the idea of a PM having the numbers to get what they want passed in the House of Commons.

 

We wouldn’t be in this mess if that was true. Idiot.

 

That’s because he lost his majority after becoming PM. If your ridiculous “law” was in place he’d have repealed it on day one with the help of DUP & the wets. Even thou he subsequently wanted an election and could sit back safe in the knowledge that your law would kick in and provide him one, parliament would have legislated it away against his will.

 

If parliament is unhappy with the Governing party changing leader it can vote him/her down in a confidence vote, if it’s ok with it, your law will be repealed. What on earths the point in it, you’re basically legislating for the sake of it.

 

 

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Edited 31 October, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

That’s because he lost his majority after becoming PM.

 

He didn't have a majority, just as May didn't before him. There was the occasional support from the DUP to prop him up, but he then chose to ditch a substantial number of his own MPs.

[badgerx16]

( duplicate )

[doddisalegend]

So Trump decided to get in on the UK election by phoning into Farage's radio show apparently he isn't a fan of Corbyn and loves Boris...

 

..almost makes me want to vote for Corbyn now

 

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[badgerx16]

So Trump decided to get in on the UK election by phoning into Farage's radio show apparently he isn't a fan of Corbyn and loves Boris...

 

..almost makes me want to vote for Corbyn now

""We want to do trade with UK and they want to do trade with us.To be honest with you... this deal... under certain aspects of the (Brexit) deal... you can't do it, you can't do it, you can't trade.

We can't make a trade deal with the UK because I think we can do many times the numbers that we're doing right now and certainly much bigger numbers than you are doing under the European Union."

 

 

How far did he actually get in school ?

[buctootim]

If we don't like the election result, can we call for a re-run?

 

That's how democracy works nowadays

 

Sure. The previous election was only 2.5 years ago so we’re long overdue a new Brexit vote

[Jonnyboy]

Its about his extreme left wing agenda, and the people behind him. If that doesn't concern you Iam worried. If he gets in you will see a change in our society that will make this nation unrecognisable from the one we grew up in.

The civil service will not be impartial and he has stated himself that it will be trained accordingly. The people he says he's going to hit will be off and they will take the money elsewhere, the vast majority of the tax earners for the nation will bear the brunt of the taxes of envy and the seemingly harmless old Uncle will show his claws.

Watch all the old favours called in by his Republican friends, Adams will be on the phone 'Hi Jerry, remember that meal we had and the all conversations that perhaps we shouldn't have had.....' Watch the BBC series the troubles and see how ruthless a man Adams is.

 

Pifflepaffle

[Batman]

Sure. The previous election was only 2.5 years ago so we’re long overdue a new Brexit vote

 

That’s right, let’s enact Brexit result and the campaign can start to see if anyone wants to rejoin.

 

Fair enough

[buctootim]

That’s right, let’s enact Brexit result and the campaign can start to see if anyone wants to rejoin.

 

Fair enough

 

That’s not how it works. Major legislative change involves a green paper, white paper committee stages, two houses and a date it comes into force if it survives all those stages and a change in government. At least five years in gestation, which is why so many proposals fall by the wayside and governments don’t achieve much in their first five year term. It’s also why it won’t matter that much if Corbin becomes PM)

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That’s not how it works. Major legislative change involves a green paper, white paper committee stages, two houses and a date it comes into force if it survives all those stages and a change in government. At least five years in gestation, which is why so many proposals fall by the wayside and governments don’t achieve much in their first five year term. It’s also why it won’t matter that much if Corbin becomes PM)

 

To get some of Corbyn's plans through the Lords will be nigh on impossible.

[Batman]

That’s not how it works. Major legislative change involves a green paper, white paper committee stages, two houses and a date it comes into force if it survives all those stages and a change in government. At least five years in gestation, which is why so many proposals fall by the wayside and governments don’t achieve much in their first five year term. It’s also why it won’t matter that much if Corbin becomes PM)

 

What are you saying? When we leave there can never be an argument made about rejoining and even put back to the people?

Edited 1 November, 2019 by Batman

[badgerx16]

To get some of Corbyn's plans through the Lords will be nigh on impossible.

The Lords might delay Government Bills, but it cannot prevent them being passed into Law.

[buctootim]

What are you saying? When we leave there can never be an argument made about rejoining and even put back to the people?

 

No I’m saying plans and proposals often don’t make it to implementation for many reasons including a change of government or public opinion.

[Batman]

No I’m saying plans and proposals often don’t make it to implementation for many reasons including a change of government or public opinion.

 

So doable then if wanted.

Great news. The right thing to pursue

[JackanorySFC]

Farage announced today Brexit party will fight every seat. Claims his interview with Trump yesterday proves Boris' deal is not a true Brexit. Unless the Tories agree to rip up the deal and agree a new approach with the Brexit Party they will contest all seats. If the Tories go into a pact they will parget only remain seats.

 

Brexiters on here who are you supporting? Boris/ the Tories with their weak (non) Brexit deal that has no chance of a trade agreement with the USA (FWIW there is zero chance of a trade deal with the USA anyway, anyone with the tiniest bit of US political knowledge knows a deal like this will take 4+ years to go through the relevant committees and get sign off from Dem controlled congress - just look at NAFTA) and other major countries or Farage and a true Brexit whilst running the risk of dillutting the right wing/ leave vote?

 

Southampton Itchen (Labour's No1 target) a good example. If the Brexit party put up a candidate Rambo Royston will certainly lose his seat to the Labour candidate.

 

Would normally say Nigel is bluffing but with Trump's backing and going on record today he looks serious to me.

[igsey]

This is going to be a waste of time and won't solve anything. Tories will lose votes to Brexit, Labour will lose votes to Lib Dems, SNP and Brexit, and who knows what will happen in NI.

 

I'll vote for whoever is most likely to kick that Tory pr*ck Jack Lopresti out of his seat. I suspect lots of people will.

[JackanorySFC]

This is going to be a waste of time and won't solve anything. Tories will lose votes to Brexit, Labour will lose votes to Lib Dems, SNP and Brexit, and who knows what will happen in NI.

 

I'll vote for whoever is most likely to kick that Tory pr*ck Jack Lopresti out of his seat. I suspect lots of people will.

 

Looks that way. Conservatives just announced they will not go into a deal. Brexit party saying Boris' deal is the ultimate surrender deal and Barnier totally outmaneuvered Boris and his team. This looks messy as it's a total impasse.

 

Personally I expect a hung Parliament. Tories will make some gains that will offset total annihilation in Scotland. Lib Dems and Labour will fail to form a pact to step down in winnable seats and Brexit Party will cause enough doubt re Boris' "surrender" (that wartime rhetoric started by Boris, Cummings etc being used against them will be interesting to witness) deal to take votes from the tories in marginal seats outside their most winnable targets. Three main parties have terrible leaders, none of which I'm particularly keen on seeing as PM (Swinson has zer gravitas, Corbyn utterly unelectable to anyone but the extreme left and Johnston a liar and a cheat) but there you go.

 

Clear as mud basically and no mandate to get anything meaningful through the Commons for a while yet.

[Batman]

All we have seen are the parties setting their stalls out

 

I do not believe for one moment there will not be any form of unofficial deals going on.

 

Will the brexit party have a serious list of 500 candidates? Not a chance, Reckon it will be 100 at an extreme push.

[Sheaf Saint]

Looks that way. Conservatives just announced they will not go into a deal. Brexit party saying Boris' deal is the ultimate surrender deal and Barnier totally outmaneuvered Boris and his team. This looks messy as it's a total impasse.

 

Personally I expect a hung Parliament. Tories will make some gains that will offset total annihilation in Scotland. Lib Dems and Labour will fail to form a pact to step down in winnable seats and Brexit Party will cause enough doubt re Boris' "surrender" (that wartime rhetoric started by Boris, Cummings etc being used against them will be interesting to witness) deal to take votes from the tories in marginal seats outside their most winnable targets. Three main parties have terrible leaders, none of which I'm particularly keen on seeing as PM (Swinson has zer gravitas, Corbyn utterly unelectable to anyone but the extreme left and Johnston a liar and a cheat) but there you go.

 

Clear as mud basically and no mandate to get anything meaningful through the Commons for a while yet.

 

You really have to hand it to David Cameron for not deleting this tweet from 2015...

 

[Turkish]

Whatever you think of the Tories, labour, Brexit and the rest of it, how anyone can vote for man who has been proven to be a supporter of the IRA to lead our country is beyond me.

[sadoldgit]

Proven supporter of the IRA?

[Turkish]

Proven supporter of the IRA?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

[aintforever]

Corbyn May have links to the IRA but the Tories are actually making steps towards a United Ireland by putting a border down the Irish Sea.

[sadoldgit]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/11924431/Revealed-Jeremy-Corbyn-and-John-McDonnells-close-IRA-links.html

 

A Daily Telegraph article. No agenda there then. I can find plenty of articles of him condemning the bombings and violence (on both sides). Hardly a ringing endorsement of the IRA.

[sadoldgit]

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/jeremy-corbyn-i-didn-t-support-the-ira-i-don-t-support-the-ira-1.3098070?mode=amp