General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[sadoldgit]

It isn't about the leaders, it is about the policies and the historic faith that the electorate have in each party. At the moment, Brexit is one of the main policy concerns and that is where the girl Swinson and her party fall down. It is one thing to claim that the Brexit decision needs to be reaffirmed, but quite another to seek to overturn the democratic referendum decision before it has even been enacted. Their policy has justifiably led to people questioning their right to have the word "Democrats" in their party name. If my experience as a voter in Eastleigh is typical, then it is easy to see their problem. In the several leaflets already dropped onto my doormat from them in the past week or so, the word "Brexit" has only appeared twice. There has been not a single mention of their policy to overturn the referendum decision the day after the girl Swinson is elected PM.

 

They are obviously sh*t scared of mentioning it in leave voting constituencies and are probably trumpeting it loud and clear in remain constituencies. As for their fabricated polls deliberately attempting to mislead the gullible, there is no moral high ground for them when they criticise the other parties. Swinson laughably claims that she will be the next PM, but that is ludicrous and her best bet is to be the junior partner in some anti-Brexit alliance in conjunction with Labour and the SNP.

 

Oh, and she should stop wearing that awful yellow outfit. It doesn't suit her, and people are beginning to think that she doesn't have anything else to wear.

 

What difference does it make what she wears? Johnson looks like an explosion in a dry cleaners but you don’t mention his attire.

[The Kraken]

I’m not sure what the opposition is to having to use ID to vote. The current system is a piece of **** to abuse, you don’t even need to show up with your polling card. Seems like an easy thing to sort. I’m not saying there’s widespread vote fraud going on but it’s not a stretch to say that there could easily be a small amount that wouldn’t be picked up by the current system.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Because certain groups of people are more likely to be disenfranchised and these are more likely to vote Labour (Young, poor and ethnic minorities). At least that’s what some guy in radio 5 was saying studies have shown.

 

So the young, poor & ethnic minority’s don’t show id at post office collecting a parcel? The young don’t show it to buy fags or ale? You have to show it to attend Labour Party events, they must be a party of rich older British then, as the young, poor and ethnic couldn’t get by the id checks.

 

What a load of pony. Id is shown by everyone in the modern world, it’s been shown at NI elections for years and nobody is disenfranchised. Perhaps they’re all rich and old. The reason labour don’t want voter id is because they benefit from voter fraud, pure and simple.

 

 

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[sadoldgit]

So the young, poor & ethnic minority’s don’t show id at post office collecting a parcel? The young don’t show it to buy fags or ale? You have to show it to attend Labour Party events, they must be a party of rich older British then, as the young, poor and ethnic couldn’t get by the id checks.

 

What a load of pony. Id is shown by everyone in the modern world, it’s been shown at NI elections for years and nobody is disenfranchised. Perhaps they’re all rich and old. The reason labour don’t want voter id is because they benefit from voter fraud, pure and simple.

 

 

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Labour benefit from voter fraud? If you had a vagina I would call you a dopey bird.

[Weston Super Saint]

Labour benefit from voter fraud? If you had a vagina I would call you a dopey bird.

 

Nothing like a personal insult!

[aintforever]

So the young, poor & ethnic minority’s don’t show id at post office collecting a parcel? The young don’t show it to buy fags or ale? You have to show it to attend Labour Party events, they must be a party of rich older British then, as the young, poor and ethnic couldn’t get by the id checks.

 

What a load of pony. Id is shown by everyone in the modern world, it’s been shown at NI elections for years and nobody is disenfranchised. Perhaps they’re all rich and old. The reason labour don’t want voter id is because they benefit from voter fraud, pure and simple.

 

 

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Your talking out of your arse as usual.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50044539

[whelk]

https://twitter.com/damocrat/status/1196932286937260032/video/1

[Lord Duckhunter]

Your talking out of your arse as usual.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50044539

 

Dear god, quoting the BBC as some sort of independent body.

 

As an earlier poster stated. Nobody can really argue with the fact that you should have to prove who you are when voting. I doubt there’s one person eligible to vote who hasn’t got id. However the Government proposals also involved bringing in a new free ID card to use when voting. No doubt the young, poor & ethnic minorities somehow won’t be able to apply for that as well.

 

After getting his WA through, let’s hope voter id and equalising constituency sizes are next on Boris’ agenda. Both of which distort our democracy.

 

 

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[badgerx16]

Your talking out of your arse as usual.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50044539

 

With your head buried in the sand, how else can you communicate ?

[badgerx16]

After getting his WA through, let’s hope voter id and equalising constituency sizes are next on Boris’ agenda. Both of which distort our democracy.

 

How about a properly proportional voting system.

[doddisalegend]

I’m not sure what the opposition is to having to use ID to vote. The current system is a piece of **** to abuse, you don’t even need to show up with your polling card. Seems like an easy thing to sort. I’m not saying there’s widespread vote fraud going on but it’s not a stretch to say that there could easily be a small amount that wouldn’t be picked up by the current system.

 

Guess it depends on what ID is required. I remember going for re-mortgage a few years ago and they needed ID. As a non-driver with only a provisional licence, without a current passport and not being a member of the armed forces I didn't have one form of ID that Barclays would except. Stupidly enough I ended up re-mortgaging with Halifax online and never had to show any ID.

[shurlock]

LD having a proper mare - someone has to fill in for Les I suppose

[The Kraken]

Guess it depends on what ID is required. I remember going for re-mortgage a few years ago and they needed ID. As a non-driver with only a provisional licence, without a current passport and not being a member of the armed forces I didn't have one form of ID that Barclays would except. Stupidly enough I ended up re-mortgaging with Halifax online and never had to show any ID.

The ID thing is a potential, but I believe councils would offer a free of charge electoral ID if it were to become law. Given that, I still fail to see the issue.

[Batman]

Guess it depends on what ID is required. I remember going for re-mortgage a few years ago and they needed ID. As a non-driver with only a provisional licence, without a current passport and not being a member of the armed forces I didn't have one form of ID that Barclays would except. Stupidly enough I ended up re-mortgaging with Halifax online and never had to show any ID.

 

You must have produced ID at some point to Halifax.

 

Asking people to provide ID to vote should not be a contentious issue!!!

[aintforever]

Dear god, quoting the BBC as some sort of independent body.

 

The research was by the Electoral Commission you dopey old fool. Try ****ing reading.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The research was by the Electoral Commission you dopey old fool. Try ****ing reading.

 

Why would I read anything published by the BBC, and as for the ****ing electoral commission, they’re just as bad. Political appointees, part of the Blairette blob we’ll be clearing out eventually.

 

The simple fact is, everybody has id in this day and age. The most important and fundamental right the people have is to vote. Anyone who doesn’t believe you should prove who you are before doing so is only taking that position because it benefits their side. When the Labour Party make people show id to attend meetings, but argue against it for the vote you know they’ve lost the argument.

 

It’s a very very simple and straightforward question. Should people prove who they are before voting? I can’t think anyone would answer that question , no.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

The ID thing is a potential, but I believe councils would offer a free of charge electoral ID if it were to become law. Given that, I still fail to see the issue.

 

The Government were proposing this exactly. A free ID card to enable people to vote for those who claim they have non. People could even use it to attend Labour Party meetings.

 

We all know why labour oppose it.

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

The ID thing is a potential, but I believe councils would offer a free of charge electoral ID if it were to become law. Given that, I still fail to see the issue.

Yeah I have no problem with it. All I'm saying is the government would have to provide a form of free ID. Passports cost stupid money and not everyone has a driving licence because many people have one, or both, they assume everyone does.

 

Both sides could be right in this argument ID at elections makes sense if it's done properly and some people would be excluded if was made a requirement and left to people to sort out their own ID.

 

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Edited 21 November, 2019 by doddisalegend

[doddisalegend]

****

Edited 21 November, 2019 by doddisalegend

[sadoldgit]

The Government were proposing this exactly. A free ID card to enable people to vote for those who claim they have non. People could even use it to attend Labour Party meetings.

 

We all know why labour oppose it.

 

 

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What is it about certain Tories that they have to labour certain bits of bull****? The usual deflection tactics I guess. Instead of pretending that Labour have some kind of scam running with voting fraud, why not concentrate on the wonderful Tory manifesto? Could it be because Johnson is making it up as he goes along?

[badgerx16]

What form of ID proves who you are ? My driving licence is the green paper one I got when I passed my test in 1982, so no photo, if I have to go to collect a parcel from the Post Office they accept showing a credit/debit card in my name, again no photo. Most other places request something like a utility bill with name and address, no photo. Do you expect Councils to produce voting cards incorporating photos ?

Edited 21 November, 2019 by badgerx16

[LGTL]

Labour haven’t won a majority in nearly 15 years, so if all this voter fraud is taking place they obviously aren’t very good at it.

[doddisalegend]

Labour haven’t won a majority in nearly 15 years, so if all this voter fraud is taking place they obviously aren’t very good at it.

True that. Also if the usual suspects are so sure there is mass voter fraud going on we should consider all votes the last few years suspect. As such that only strengthens the case for a second referendum on brexit this time to take place after everyone in the UK has received photo ID it's the only way to make sure democracy is really being observed surely.

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

What form of ID proves who you are ? My driving licence is the green paper one I got when I passed my test in 1982, so no photo, if I have to go to collect a parcel from the Post Office they accept showing a credit/debit card in my name, again no photo. Most other places request something like a utility bill with name and address, no photo. Do you expect Councils to produce voting cards incorporating photos ?

 

God, how many more times. The Government proposals (rejected by labour) included this:

 

“Anyone who does not have an approved form of ID will be able to apply, free of charge, for an electoral identity document from their local council”

 

I presume you now back the proposals, or will you find another excuse.

 

 

 

 

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[shurlock]

Can someone tell how many cases of electoral fraud related to registration there were in the last GE? I get the impression from dopey Duckhunter that it’s in the thousands or tens of thousands. Answers on a postcard.

[Batman]

Can someone tell how many cases of electoral fraud related to registration there were in the last GE? I get the impression from dopey Duckhunter that it’s in the thousands or tens of thousands. Answers on a postcard.

 

Just a quick yes / no. Do you think it is appropriate that all personnel should provide ID in order to cast a vote?

 

If not, why?

[doddisalegend]

Just a quick yes / no. Do you think it is appropriate that all personnel should provide ID in order to cast a vote?

 

If not, why?

Just a quick yes / no do you you believe mass electoral fraud is being carried out in the Uk

 

If so where is your evidence?

 

 

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Edited 21 November, 2019 by doddisalegend

[badgerx16]

God, how many more times. The Government proposals (rejected by labour) included this:

 

“Anyone who does not have an approved form of ID will be able to apply, free of charge, for an electoral identity document from their local council”

 

I presume you now back the proposals, or will you find another excuse.

 

 

 

 

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I think you are looking for a problem that doesn't exist in any meaningful way. Also, would Whitehall reimburse the costs incurred by the councis, or would they have to suck up yet another overhead imposed from central Government from their already oversubscribed, austerity damaged, budgets ?

Why not go for RFID tags injected at birth, problem solved in 18 years, and Big Brother will finally have his comprehensive surveillance society.

[shurlock]

Just a quick yes / no. Do you think it is appropriate that all personnel should provide ID in order to cast a vote?

 

If not, why?

 

It depends. It depends on the scale of the problem, whether the benefits (reducing electoral fraud) outweigh the costs (deterring or preventing people from voting legally) due to the additional inconvenience or cost involved.

 

That’s why having a sense of the extent of the problem and how well or badly the current system is working is critical. That’s why I asked my original question - now do you have an answer pal?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Just a quick yes / no. Do you think it is appropriate that all personnel should provide ID in order to cast a vote?

 

If not, why?

 

Just a quick yes / no do you you believe mass electoral fraud is being carried out in the Uk

 

If so where is your evidence?

 

 

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At the moment there is a check to ensure people don’t vote twice. So the principle of the state regulating a check is already in place & a given. Bearing that in mind, what is the appropriate check? Someone giving their name and the polling station taking their word for it, or somebody showing their id. I think we all know the answer to that one.

 

No I do not believe there is widespread electoral fraud (maybe 2 or 3 seats) , but that shouldn’t stop us legislating against it. If your argument is we shouldn’t legislate because it doesn’t happen much, then plenty of laws wouldn’t exist. It does go on, there’s no doubt about that, and if it changes one seat, that’s one too many. If there’s one example, that’s one too many.

 

If you’re against the principle of showing Id for anything, that’s one thing. But for labour to demand it to attend events (I doubt there’s widespread attempts from people without it, to attend), then surely the right to vote is more becoming of id than to listen to Diane Abbott’s pony for 2 hours. There can only be two explanations, they’re opposing it for the sake of it and playing political games, or they benefit from it not being in place. I know which one I think it is.

 

Anyway, it’ll now be down to the people to decide. Not you, and certainly not me. If Boris wins, it’ll happen , if he doesn’t it won’t. That’s democracy for you.

 

 

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Edited 21 November, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[Wes Tender]

LD having a proper mare - someone has to fill in for Les I suppose

 

No he isn't at all, Gavin. Just because you say that he is, doesn't make it so. He has made some really valid arguments, but of course it is your usual MO to prefer insulting somebody rather than to act like a grown up and debate them sensibly.

[shurlock]

No he isn't at all, Gavin. Just because you say that he is, doesn't make it so. He has made some really valid arguments, but of course it is your usual MO to prefer insulting somebody rather than to act like a grown up and debate them sensibly.

 

Morning Les - you certainly are a glutton for punishment pal. So perhaps you can tell me the extent of the current problem and whether the benefits outweigh the costs.

Edited 21 November, 2019 by shurlock

[Lord Duckhunter]

The white middle class Magical Mystery Tour remake looks ****e. Roll up, Roll up, that’s an invitation to hear the “fool on the hill”.

 

#poshbus******s

 

 

 

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[RedArmy]

How does voter ID work with the postal voting system?

 

How does voter ID stop students from being registered to vote at their university address and their parents house?

[Batman]

It depends. It depends on the scale of the problem, whether the benefits (reducing electoral fraud) outweigh the costs (deterring or preventing people from voting legally) due to the additional inconvenience or cost involved.

 

That’s why having a sense of the extent of the problem and how well or badly the current system is working is critical. That’s why I asked my original question - now do you have an answer pal?

 

Just a yes or no would have done. A simple question, should a person provide a form of ID to enable them to cast a vote.

 

Thanks anyway

[Batman]

How does voter ID work with the postal voting system?

 

How does voter ID stop students from being registered to vote at their university address and their parents house?

 

Good question.

People manage to do all sorts online where ID is required, like getting a mortgage etc

 

It simply cannot beyond the wit of man (or a non-gendered species) to achieve this for postal voting.

Edited 21 November, 2019 by Batman

[Wes Tender]

Morning Les - you certainly are a glutton for punishment pal. So perhaps you can tell me the extent of the current problem and whether the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

Why don't you address LD's points, instead of giving your narcissism an outing once again?

 

Where do you set the cost limits for ensuring that our democracy is protected from fraud, Gavin?

[aintforever]

The simple fact is, everybody has id in this day and age.

 

Again, it appears you have a problem reading.

 

"Research by the Electoral Commission, the independent body that sets the standards of elections in the UK, indicated in 2015 about 3.5 million citizens or 7.5% of the electorate did not have access to any approved photo ID.

There are variations across different groups - for example, women are considerably less likely than men, and black people considerably less likely than white people, to have a driving licence. Certain ethnic groups such as Gypsies and Irish Travellers are much less likely than the average to have a passport."

[doddisalegend]

I think you are looking for a problem that doesn't exist in any meaningful way. Also, would Whitehall reimburse the costs incurred by the councis, or would they have to suck up yet another overhead imposed from central Government from their already oversubscribed, austerity damaged, budgets ?

Why not go for RFID tags injected at birth, problem solved in 18 years, and Big Brother will finally have his comprehensive surveillance society.

Exactly if the government are going to do this properly it needs to roll out voting photo ID to every adult voter. Ideally as some are clearly terrified that electoral fraud is wide spread the voter ID card needs to hard to easily replicate. This is going cost a fair amount of cash.

 

Now given the electoral commission reports 2 convictions and 10 cautions for electoral fraud since 2017 it hardly seems worth the cost.

 

I'm not against the idea if there was clear evidence of huge amounts of electoral fraud that needed to be stamped out but there isn't.

 

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[Sheaf Saint]

I see the Tories' digital propaganda team, not content with dismissing the whole fact check UK thing by claiming nobody cares, have seen fit today to spend an absolute fortune (I assume) on ensuring their mini-site savaging the Labour manifesto comes up as the top search result when you type 'Labour' into Google.

 

[Tamesaint]

Again, it appears you have a problem reading.

 

"Research by the Electoral Commission, the independent body that sets the standards of elections in the UK, indicated in 2015 about 3.5 million citizens or 7.5% of the electorate did not have access to any approved photo ID.

There are variations across different groups - for example, women are considerably less likely than men, and black people considerably less likely than white people, to have a driving licence. Certain ethnic groups such as Gypsies and Irish Travellers are much less likely than the average to have a passport."

 

I will reply for him.

 

Pony. The Electoral Commission is full of pinkoes and the people we have drained out of the swamp. Ignore what they say. Get an ID system in place and insist that chicks reveal their breast size. Only chicks with big talents should be allowed to vote.

[Wes Tender]

The white middle class Magical Mystery Tour remake looks ****e. Roll up, Roll up, that’s an invitation to hear the “fool on the hill”.

 

#poshbus******s

 

 

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Nothing to fret about; Dianne Abbott has mapped out the route. What could possibly go wrong? To pass the time, they are playing a game invented by Emily Thornberry; spot the white van man. When they get to the leave voting Labour industrial heartlands, Dawn Butler will have to be restrained from yelling "thickos" at anybody who voted to leave the EU.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Again, it appears you have a problem reading.

 

"Research by the Electoral Commission, the independent body that sets the standards of elections in the UK, indicated in 2015 about 3.5 million citizens or 7.5% of the electorate did not have access to any approved photo ID.

There are variations across different groups - for example, women are considerably less likely than men, and black people considerably less likely than white people, to have a driving licence. Certain ethnic groups such as Gypsies and Irish Travellers are much less likely than the average to have a passport."

 

It is you who has the problem reading. Those 7% are catered for by a free electoral id scheme . As quoted by C4 fact check here.

 

 

As you’re keen on The Electoral Commission maybe you should read their report of Dec 15

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[badgerx16]

LD having a proper mare

 

No he isn't at all, Gavin. Just because you say that he is, doesn't make it so.

Same as GM parroting "Boris playing a blinder".

[Lord Duckhunter]

Nothing to fret about; Dianne Abbott has mapped out the route. What could possibly go wrong? To pass the time, they are playing a game invented by Emily Thornberry; spot the white van man. When they get to the leave voting Labour industrial heartlands, Dawn Butler will have to be restrained from yelling "thickos" at anybody who voted to leave the EU.

 

Where are all the black & ethnic minorities, at the back of the bus?

 

 

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[aintforever]

It is you who has the problem reading. Those 7% are catered for by a free electoral id scheme . As quoted by C4 fact check here.

 

 

As you’re keen on The Electoral Commission maybe you should read their report of Dec 15

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, but as such a scheme doesn't currently exist in the rest of the UK there are currently about 3.5million people without the relevant ID.

 

I'm not against voter ID, I genuinely don't give a monkeys either way. I'm just trying to explain to you the rather obvious reasons Labour have been opposed to it. Even if that scheme is free and easily available it is still another hoop for people to jump through and may result in less of Labour's demographic voting.

[doddisalegend]

It is you who has the problem reading. Those 7% are catered for by a free electoral id scheme . As quoted by C4 fact check here.

 

 

As you’re keen on The Electoral Commission maybe you should read their report of Dec 15

 

 

 

 

 

 

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A new photo driving licence costs 34 quid assuming a new voter ID would have a similar cost. You want to spend £119000000 of public money to protect the country from electoral fraud. A problem so vast that two whole people have been convicted of it since 2017 pretty sure the country could spend that sort of money better elsewhere.

 

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[Batman]

So what are we saying, need ID to go to the cinema and if you fancy it, a labour conference. But not to vote?

 

Very strange

[sadoldgit]

Can you imagine the meltdown on here by certain individuals if Labour had put a bogus fact checker site up or if Corbyn had given special favours to a female “technical adviser”

[Wes Tender]

A new photo driving licence costs 34 quid assuming a new voter ID would have a similar cost. You want to spend £119000000 of public money to protect the country from electoral fraud. A problem so vast that two whole people have been convicted of it since 2017 pretty sure the country could spend that sort of money better elsewhere.

 

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The £34 for the photo driving licence is a cost to the consumer, the person who buys it, and is probably vastly inflated as a revenue earner. I very much doubt that the cost of producing it would be anywhere close to that if they were produced free by the Government. But even if the cost was half of that, it would be worth every penny to help stamp out electoral fraud. If as you claim, there is no need for any form of identification required to prevent electoral fraud, why then would the Electoral Commission feel the need to recommend it 5 years ago? Do you think that electoral fraud has increased or decreased since then?