General Election 2019 - Post Match Reaction

[CB Fry]

The Independent tells us that the Tory lead is down to 8 points since Johnson has been dragging his enormous charisma around the country.

 

Good to see that Boris is still playing a blinder.

Okay then.

 

 

YouGov for Sunday Times

TORIES OPEN UP 17 POINT LEAD

 

Con 45 (+3)

Lab 28 (-)

LDem 15 (-)

Brexit 4 (-)

 

The biggest Tory lead with YouGov since May 2017, a month before the last election

 

(changes since YGov on Weds)

[sadoldgit]

A poll in 3 London marginals for The Observer is showing a massive swing to the LibDems.

[doddisalegend]

This should cheer up Lord D and give CB more opportunity for tit spotting

 

Record number of women to stand in General Election next month

 

https://metro.co.uk/2019/11/16/record-number-women-stand-general-election-next-month-11167923/

[LGTL]

Okay then.

 

 

YouGov for Sunday Times

TORIES OPEN UP 17 POINT LEAD

 

Con 45 (+3)

Lab 28 (-)

LDem 15 (-)

Brexit 4 (-)

 

The biggest Tory lead with YouGov since May 2017, a month before the last election

 

(changes since YGov on Weds)

 

YouGov, ran by that massive Labour supporter Stephan Shakespeare...

 

Whilst there’s no doubt they’re ahead, the Tories themselves had might as well publish a poll as YouGov.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The Independent tells us that the Tory lead is down to 8 points since Johnson has been dragging his enormous charisma around the country.

 

Good to see that Boris is still playing a blinder.

 

#deluded

 

 

Delta poll

 

 

 

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

What is it they say about a woman scorned? Seems Boris might be about to get a dose. Wonder what secrets jennifer knows?

 

Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/17/arcuri-says-johnson-cast-her-aside-like-one-night-stand

 

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[badgerx16]

The biggest Tory lead with YouGov since May 2017, a month before the last election

Where May blew her majority.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

Edited 17 November, 2019 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

Just wondering, has anyone here been involved in any of these polls? If someone asked me which way I was going to vote I would be inclined to tell them the opposite. Never had a call myself.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Picked up my copy of The Times this morning and there was an interview with that Jo Swinson inside.

 

I've just got round reading it and I have to say there were a couple of things that really stood out for me.

 

I am pleased she is getting her points across to you

[Batman]

Just wondering, has anyone here been involved in any of these polls? If someone asked me which way I was going to vote I would be inclined to tell them the opposite. Never had a call myself.

 

I should imagine many are done online, even via apps

[Lord Duckhunter]

What is it they say about a woman scorned? Seems Boris might be about to get a dose. Wonder what secrets jennifer knows?

 

Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/17/arcuri-says-johnson-cast-her-aside-like-one-night-stand

 

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The fact that Boris is an unfaithful cad is pretty much factored in. Everybody knows it and provided there’s no corruption this dopey bird won’t derail his campaign. After all Corbyn isn’t whiter than white when it comes to the chicks.

 

 

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[CB Fry]

Where May blew her majority.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

I think anyone clinging on to that is going to be disappointed. Personally think the Labour Party have been massively complacent that 2017 is just going to happen all over again regardless.

[badgerx16]

I think anyone clinging on to that is going to be disappointed. Personally think the Labour Party have been massively complacent that 2017 is just going to happen all over again regardless.

 

Quite possibly, but Conservative supporters basking in the current polling figures risk being shown up to being equally complacent.

[Tamesaint]

Complacency could be an issue in this election. If it is cold and wet in mid December or even snowy complacency could lead some voters to stay indoors and not bother to vote.

[sadoldgit]

I should imagine many are done online, even via apps

 

Makes sense in this day and age.

[sadoldgit]

Complacency could be an issue in this election. If it is cold and wet in mid December or even snowy complacency could lead some voters to stay indoors and not bother to vote.

 

I’m thinking that the Brexit factor could encourage more people to venture out.

[Fan The Flames]

The fact that Boris is an unfaithful cad is pretty much factored in. Everybody knows it and provided there’s no corruption this dopey bird won’t derail his campaign. After all Corbyn isn’t whiter than white when it comes to the chicks.

 

You do realise that these posts make you look like a 40 year old virgin.

[Tamesaint]

You do realise that these posts make you look like a 40 year old virgin.

 

Using language like "chicks" makes him older than 40. He is probably the oldest swinger in town.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Complacency could be an issue in this election. If it is cold and wet in mid December or even snowy complacency could lead some voters to stay indoors and not bother to vote.

 

Then in fairness they don't deserve the vote.

[Winnersaint]

[buctootim]

I think anyone clinging on to that is going to be disappointed. Personally think the Labour Party have been massively complacent that 2017 is just going to happen all over again regardless.

 

This sadly. In 2017 Corbyn was recently elected leader, the policies weren't as extreme, the LDs were in the naughty corner and he was up against a Tory leader so wooden she made him seems engaging. None of that is working in their favour this time.

[buctootim]

Then in fairness they don't deserve the vote.

 

Their own fault for being old or disabled

Edited 17 November, 2019 by buctootim

[buctootim]

Where May blew her majority.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2017_United_Kingdom_general_election

 

 

 

That image shows the gulf between who people want to support and who they actually vote for come general election time. The small parties get squeezed under FPTP, not news I know but that graphic demonstrates it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

This sadly. In 2017 Corbyn was recently elected leader, the policies weren't as extreme, the LDs were in the naughty corner and he was up against a Tory leader so wooden she made him seems engaging. None of that is working in their favour this time.

 

Exactly. You also need to factor in the fact the Tory manifesto won’t be a cluster **** this time around.

 

A polling guru was on the radio stating that most people are looking in the wrong direction regarding Boris’ pathway to victory. Labour are clinging to the hope that Boris can’t take Bolsover and the like. Heavy leave areas that haven’t ever voted in a tory. This bloke reckons that’s wrong. There are (according to him) 31 seats that Corbyn won off the tories that were Tory seats in 2017. Unlike the northern, welsh or midland target seats , these are seats that are used to voting Tory. He claims that in 25 of these seats there is a sizeable leave vote, and if they keep these voters the Lib Dem’s revival means the anti Tory vote will split and let the tories back in. When asked whether a squeeze on the Lib Dem’s will produce the same result as 2017, said no. His reasoning was that a lot of people voted Corbyn to minimise May’s majority (this time vote Corbyn, get corbyn ) but also a lot of their retail policies will frighten these people. Free broadband, free dental check ups, etc, may play well in some areas, but these set of voters in the ex Tory areas will be concerned about the impact of them. Once Corbynomics becomes as scary to pinkos as Brexit, he’s ****ed.

 

 

 

 

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Edited 17 November, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[sadoldgit]

Exactly. You also need to factor in the fact the Tory manifesto won’t be a cluster **** this time around.

 

A polling guru was on the radio stating that most people are looking in the wrong direction regarding Boris’ pathway to victory. Labour are clinging to the hope that Boris can’t take Bolsover and the like. Heavy leave areas that haven’t ever voted in a tory. This bloke reckons that’s wrong. There are (according to him) 31 seats that Corbyn won off the tories that were Tory seats in 2017. Unlike the northern, welsh or midland target seats , these are seats that are used to voting Tory. He claims that in 25 of these seats there is a sizeable leave vote, and if they keep these voters the Lib Dem’s revival means the anti Tory vote will split and let the tories back in. When asked whether a squeeze on the Lib Dem’s will produce the same result as 2017, said no. His reasoning was that a lot of people voted Corbyn to minimise May’s majority (this time vote Corbyn, get corbyn ) but also a lot of their retail policies will frighten these people. Free broadband, free dental check ups, etc, may play well in some areas, but these set of voters in the ex Tory areas will be concerned about the impact of them. Once Corbynomics becomes as scary to pinkos as Brexit, he’s ****ed.

 

 

 

 

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All well and good for your lot to talk about the economic impact of electing a Labour government. It’s a shame that you are not so concerned about the economic effect of Brexit.

[Wes Tender]

All well and good for your lot to talk about the economic impact of electing a Labour government. It’s a shame that you are not so concerned about the economic effect of Brexit.

 

No, me neither. Bring it on. The EU is petrified that once we are free of their shackles that we will thrive, so cheer up, Soggy.

[norwaysaint]

All well and good for your lot to talk about the economic impact of electing a Labour government. It’s a shame that you are not so concerned about the economic effect of Brexit.

 

The other "Project Fear"?

 

I think the left generally suffers from not being good enough at coming up with neat, snappy nicknames for the ideas they want to discredit. We see the same thing in America where Trump concentrates on negative nicknames for people and things he wants to discredit. It would be interesting to know why the right is, firstly, more engaged in nicknames and, secondly, why they are simply so much better at it. It does have a strong effect on public perception to hear these things repeated, whether you like it or not.

 

Funny, seeing as most decent comedians and creative people are quite left wing, that the left aren't as creative or amusing with their put-downs.

[whelk]

What is it they say about a woman scorned? Seems Boris might be about to get a dose. Wonder what secrets jennifer knows?

 

Jennifer Arcuri: ‘I’ve kept Johnson’s secrets – now he’s cast me aside like a one-night stand’

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/17/arcuri-says-johnson-cast-her-aside-like-one-night-stand

 

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Funny this interview with her on breakfast tv.

Why she doesn’t admit the obvious is beyond me

[shurlock]

No, me neither. Bring it on. The EU is petrified that once we are free of their shackles that we will thrive, so cheer up, Soggy.

 

Should have told Elon Musk and Tesla that Les

[doddisalegend]

Funny this interview with her on breakfast tv.

Why she doesn’t admit the obvious is beyond me

That Boris like to be spanked, with a paddle, by a woman dressed like Matron while head dorm boy Rees- Mogg talks dirty to him?

 

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[Sheaf Saint]

The other "Project Fear"?

 

I think the left generally suffers from not being good enough at coming up with neat, snappy nicknames for the ideas they want to discredit. We see the same thing in America where Trump concentrates on negative nicknames for people and things he wants to discredit. It would be interesting to know why the right is, firstly, more engaged in nicknames and, secondly, why they are simply so much better at it. It does have a strong effect on public perception to hear these things repeated, whether you like it or not.

 

Funny, seeing as most decent comedians and creative people are quite left wing, that the left aren't as creative or amusing with their put-downs.

 

Perhaps it's because they try to avoid lowering themselves to the childish level of their opposition.

[norwaysaint]

Perhaps it's because they try to avoid lowering themselves to the childish level of their opposition.

 

Perhaps you were going for irony, but some might say a comment like that is pretty condescending, which kind of contradicts the point you were trying to make. It's just like name calling, but more indirect.

[shurlock]

Perhaps you were going for irony, but some might say a comment like that is pretty condescending, which kind of contradicts the point you were trying to make. It's just like name calling, but more indirect.

 

Jesus wept.

[Sheaf Saint]

Perhaps you were going for irony, but some might say a comment like that is pretty condescending, which kind of contradicts the point you were trying to make. It's just like name calling, but more indirect.

 

So refusing to engage in name-calling because you consider it to be too childish is 'just like name-calling'?

 

Really?

[norwaysaint]

Not engaging is one thing and clearly a more mature approach. Making a point of commenting about how you're rising above their childish level are another thing, because they are, in themselves, engaging in the mud slinging.

[Sheaf Saint]

Not engaging is one thing and clearly a more mature approach. Making a point of commenting about how you're rising above their childish level are another thing, because they are, in themselves, engaging in the mud slinging.

 

I usually agree with a lot of what you post, but I can't on this occasion. I wasn't making a point about it. I was simply offering a possible answer to your question about why people on the left might not be as good as people on the right at name calling. I fail to see how that can be described as mud slinging.

[norwaysaint]

It was just meant to be a counter-point to the right's name calling. One of the main complaints I hear from right wing voters about the way left wing voters speak is that they generally tend to condescend. Sometimes I can see what they mean in the posts here. There isn't so much name calling, but there is often an attitude that right wing voters aren't quite at their level of maturity and intellect and that they only have their beliefs because of ignorance. Note that their main label for the left is "liberal elite", the people who think they are above everyone else. I don't think your post was intended that way, but it's an indirect insult, implying that they are how they are, that right=childish and left=mature adult.

 

Personally, I'm left of centre, so I fall in that category myself. I'm often a condescending *****. I think I'm better than most people who disagree with me, so luckily, most will agree with that.

[shurlock]

It was just meant to be a counter-point to the right's name calling. One of the main complaints I hear from right wing voters about the way left wing voters speak is that they generally tend to condescend. Sometimes I can see what they mean in the posts here. There isn't so much name calling, but there is often an attitude that right wing voters aren't quite at their level of maturity and intellect and that they only have their beliefs because of ignorance. Note that their main label for the left is "liberal elite", the people who think they are above everyone else. I don't think your post was intended that way, but it's an indirect insult, implying that they are how they are, that right=childish and left=mature adult.

 

Personally, I'm left of centre, so I fall in that category myself. I'm often a condescending *****. I think I'm better than most people who disagree with me, so luckily, most will agree with that.

 

The issue isn’t really about left or right pal. It’s between those in the centre, whether on the right or the left or perhaps more accurately those who believe in evidence-based policymaking and those who hold more emotive populist views. Populism afflicts both right and left but at this moment in time it is stronger on the right than on the left, at least in this country.

Edited 18 November, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

Should have told Elon Musk and Tesla that Les

 

Musk is a South African/Yank/Canadian, Gavin. So you're going to cite a single non-European individual as evidence that the EU aren't sh*t-scared of the UK becoming like Singapore-on Thames?

[sadoldgit]

The other "Project Fear"?

 

I think the left generally suffers from not being good enough at coming up with neat, snappy nicknames for the ideas they want to discredit. We see the same thing in America where Trump concentrates on negative nicknames for people and things he wants to discredit. It would be interesting to know why the right is, firstly, more engaged in nicknames and, secondly, why they are simply so much better at it. It does have a strong effect on public perception to hear these things repeated, whether you like it or not.

 

Funny, seeing as most decent comedians and creative people are quite left wing, that the left aren't as creative or amusing with their put-downs.

 

Put a nickname on it and it isn’t going to make an economic downturn less of an issue.

[shurlock]

Musk is a South African/Yank/Canadian, Gavin. So you're going to cite a single non-European individual as evidence that the EU aren't sh*t-scared of the UK becoming like Singapore-on Thames?

 

You’re getting confused again. Perhaps you’re too dim to recognise that what you posted in your reply isn’t the same as what you originally posted.

 

Clearly the EU is concerned about the UK becoming like Singapore-on-Thames (try telling Northern leave voters that’s what they voted for - pmsl), not because it fears the UK will thrive (it doesn't and won’t pal) but because it doesn’t want the UK’s regulatory choices -all those proverbial chlorinated chickens- leaking into the single market. In its view, the UK can do whatever it likes as long as it doesn’t compromise the EU’s regulatory autonomy and high standards. It appears the distinction is a bit too subtle for you.

 

As for Musk, his decision to locate Tesla’s first European production plant in Germany rather than the UK, citing Brexit among other things, is clearly relevant pal. Even your dopey Singapore-on-Thames soundbite betrays it’s relevance and makes the point for me. What is Singapore-on-Thames other than the UK’s ambition to become a hub for global business, innovation and talent, powered by low taxes and light regulation? In other words, it is directed at precisely multi-billion dollar businesses like Tesla - indeed Boris Johnson has made a big song and dance (with funding to boot) about making the UK the home of new, innovative industries such as electric vehicles. So yes it’s relevant that Musk’s choice fell on ‘overregulated’ Germany rather than flexible Global Britain.

 

All too easy as usual

Edited 18 November, 2019 by shurlock

[Wes Tender]

You’re getting confused again. Perhaps you’re too dim to recognise that what you posted in your reply isn’t the same as what you originally posted.

 

Clearly the EU is concerned about the UK becoming like Singapore-on-Thames (try telling Northern leave voters that’s what they voted for - pmsl), not because it thinks the UK will thrive (it won’t pal) but because it doesn’t want the UK’s regulatory choices and all those proverbial chlorinated chickens leaking into the single market. In its calculation, the UK can do whatever it likes as long as it doesn’t compromise the EU’s regulatory autonomy and own backyard. It appears the distinction is a bit too subtle for you.

 

As for Musk, his decision to locate Tesla’s first European production plant in Germany rather than the UK, citing Brexit among other things, is clearly relevant pal. Even your dopey Singapore-on-Thames soundbite betrays it’s relevance and makes the point for me. To spell things out for you, it speaks to the UK’s ambition to become a hub for global business, innovation and talent, powered by low taxes and light regulation. In other words, it speaks to attracting precisely multi-billion dollar businesses like Tesla thar operate at the technological frontier - indeed Boris Johnson has made a big song and dance (with funding to boot) about making the UK the home of electric vehicles. So yes it’s relevant that Musk’s choice fell on ‘overregulated’ Germany rather than flexible Global Britain.

 

All too easy as usual

 

*Yawn*

 

Your usual condescending, patronising, arrogant rubbish, Gavin. Only you could be capable of responding to a simple one line opinion that your reference to Musk was a rather pathetic response to my assertion that the EU is sh*t-scared of us thriving outside of the EU and write a tirade of abusive, tangential whataboutery.

 

I think that you are suffering from a bad bout of verbal Diarrhea, Gavin. Time to take a honest self-critical look at yourself in the mirror, mate, and try to be a bit less obnoxious as an individual. I think that you have some serious personality defect issues and should get them seen to. This Brexit thing is obviously affecting your sanity.

[shurlock]

*Yawn*

 

Your usual condescending, patronising, arrogant rubbish, Gavin. Only you could be capable of responding to a simple one line opinion that your reference to Musk was a rather pathetic response to my assertion that the EU is sh*t-scared of us thriving outside of the EU and write a tirade of abusive, tangential whataboutery.

 

I think that you are suffering from a bad bout of verbal Diarrhea, Gavin. Time to take a honest self-critical look at yourself in the mirror, mate, and try to be a bit less obnoxious as an individual. I think that you have some serious personality defect issues and should get them seen to. This Brexit thing is obviously affecting your sanity.

 

In other words, you don't have a response to the points I made. Thanks for clarifying Les.

[badgerx16]

*Yawn*

 

Your usual condescending, patronising, arrogant rubbish, Gavin. ..,.... and write a tirade of abusive, tangential whataboutery.

 

I think that you are suffering from a bad bout of verbal Diarrhea, Gavin. Time to take a honest self-critical look at yourself in the mirror, mate, and try to be a bit less obnoxious as an individual. I think that you have some serious personality defect issues and should get them seen to. This Brexit thing is obviously affecting your sanity.

Substitute 'Wes' for Gavin ?

[Wes Tender]

In other words, you don't have a response to the points I made. Thanks for clarifying Les.

 

No, it wasn't worth responding to. Simple as that, Gavin.

[ecuk268]

Musk is a South African/Yank/Canadian, Gavin. So you're going to cite a single non-European individual as evidence that the EU aren't sh*t-scared of the UK becoming like Singapore-on Thames?

 

I think that he's referring to Musk's decision to open an R&D Centre and his first European factory near Berlin. He was originally looking to locate the R&D centre and possibly the factory in the UK but has decided otherwise because of the Brexit chaos.

 

Makes sense to site the factory within the market that you'll be selling to.

[shurlock]

No, it wasn't worth responding to. Simple as that, Gavin.

 

So just to recap: you assert that the EU fears the UK will become Singapore-on-Thames and thrive (never mind the EU couldn’t care less and is simply interested in safeguarding the integrity of the single market). Tesla comes along -precisely the type of business that the UK aka Singapore-on-Thames needs and wants to attract in order to thrive and chooses an EU country over the UK as a major base of operations and production, citing Brexit among other reasons. If that’s your definition of thriving, I bet the EU can’t bloody wait for the UK to leave the EU. The cleaner, the better.

 

 

Always nice seeing you hoisted by your own petard Les - never stop posting on here pal. Never

[shurlock]

I think that he's referring to Musk's decision to open an R&D Centre and his first European factory near Berlin. He was originally looking to locate the R&D centre and possibly the factory in the UK but has decided otherwise because of the Brexit chaos.

 

Makes sense to site the factory within the market that you'll be selling to.

 

He knows the argument. At least, now, he does. He’s just embarrassed he soiled himself in public.

[Wes Tender]

He knows the argument. At least, now, he does. He’s just embarrassed he soiled himself in public.

 

I'm not embarrassed at all at your pathetic dissembling, Gavin, or the attempts of your cohort remoaners to try and put words into my mouth. I find it all very amusing sometimes and boring on other occasions. This is one of those boring occasions.

 

You really do need to raise your game, Gavin. I'm quite happy to count down the days until the 12th December. Where Musk builds his factory isn't going to influence the vote on the day, so stop p*ssing in the wind.

[Tamesaint]

I'm not embarrassed at all at your pathetic dissembling, Gavin, or the attempts of your cohort remoaners to try and put words into my mouth. I find it all very amusing sometimes and boring on other occasions. This is one of those boring occasions.

 

You really do need to raise your game, Gavin. I'm quite happy to count down the days until the 12th December. Where Musk builds his factory isn't going to influence the vote on the day, so stop p*ssing in the wind.

 

Lol!!

 

When my son was 8 years old and couldn't admit that he was wrong he would throw a tantrum to change the argument and end it with a hollow threat. It used to be quite amusing . This beats anything he could come up with.