Ralph Hasenhuttl

[JustinSFC]

31 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Doesn't he also have it in his locker to take us on a great run?

It was previously more than a few good games, it was a lot of good games.

We also have a better squad now, so chances of us going dogshit again are slimmer because a load of injuries or suspensions won't hurt the team as bad.

I'd be gutted if he left, don't get me wrong I'm not super fan but I do like him and it's notoriously tricky appointing a good new manager. Look how many other teams fuck that up on a regular basis.

I like him too.

But I wouldn't be gutted if he went.

I'll tell you what... He won't get away with 2 9-0 hammerings and some of the piss poor runs he's been on here at any other club.

No matter how bad the squad personnel is, you should never be getting plastered 9-0.

Granted we've been good lately but let's see where we finish.

[egg]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Buendia has scored and assisted the same amount as Redmond in both his prem seasons, so with regards to output he is Redmond level.

This "Armstrong is worse than Broja" thing should really die now. Armstrong is considerably better and will likely get the nod from here on out, like he did against villa and rewarded it by scoring a belter to win the game. Broja is good, but he isn't as good as Armstrong.

Feel free to not discuss what you want, but honestly I don't think you actually made a single argument in favour of Buendia, you said you disagreed over and over but I didn't catch a single actual point? Does that count as discussing merits to you? Where did you list a merit, I might have missed it?

I'll respond briefly. The difficulty with discussing footballers with you is your belief that stats are the most important thing. They are not. Put De Bruyne in our team, he won't get half the assists. Put Redmond in City's team, he'll get loads more. Put Mendy in our team, he'll get less clean sheets than he makes for Chelsea, but make more saves.

Comparing the stats of one player in one team to what another does in another team (where he's surrounded by different players, and in probably a different system) isn't pointless, but it's not the biggest factor in determining the merits of a player. 

You have your thoughts on Buendia and I don't agree. I'm not going to get bogged down with a discussion about it on a thread about Ralph because it is irrelevant. Further, you'll go on about Xa and Xg etc rather than focus on the actual merits of the player, and I'll find it hard to take your views seriously as you actually think that A Armstrong is better than Broja, with more potential. 

[TWar]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

I'll respond briefly. The difficulty with discussing footballers with you is your belief that stats are the most important thing. They are not. Put De Bruyne in our team, he won't get half the assists. Put Redmond in City's team, he'll get loads more. Put Mendy in our team, he'll get less clean sheets than he makes for Chelsea, but make more saves.

Comparing the stats of one player in one team to what another does in another team (where he's surrounded by different players, and in probably a different system) isn't pointless, but it's not the biggest factor in determining the merits of a player. 

You have your thoughts on Buendia and I don't agree. I'm not going to get bogged down with a discussion about it on a thread about Ralph because it is irrelevant. Further, you'll go on about Xa and Xg etc rather than focus on the actual merits of the player, and I'll find it hard to take your views seriously as you actually think that A Armstrong is better than Broja, with more potential. 

Fair enough, you have your views and I have mine. xA is supposed to account for differences in finishing of the player you are assisting but if you don't like it thats fine.

I find it a little weird that you are so fervent about Broja being better than Armstrong that you can't even listen to unrelated opinions of people who disagree with you. Like even if Broja is slightly better surely there isn't enough in it to say the contrary completely discounts the other persons view on all things football? That's an odd one for me. 

Either way, the issue with the "I just reckon Buendia is very good" approach is it isn't technically an argument, it's just a conclusion. It has no evidence and reasoning, so you can't really counter it. I've given reasons and evidence, you have no obligation to do the same but you've sent a fair few comments now, have a glance back and see if you actually say anything to justify the view, I don't mean numbers even, just something "he's good at dribbling", "he was expensive". Anything. I think you might suffer from a thing people sometimes have when they argue where they see their point of view as the default and then it is on the other person to disprove them and they can just say "no, you haven't convinced me", which isn't really a conversation.

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, stevy777_x said:

Adam Armstrong better than Broja? 
Laughable.

Comparing them seems silly to me; their style of play is quite different - in a two up front system I see them as being complementary; more so than say Adams and Broja.   Either way, we have three very competent strikers, and as each week passes the Ing's departure is looking less important.

[egg]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

Fair enough, you have your views and I have mine. xA is supposed to account for differences in finishing of the player you are assisting but if you don't like it thats fine.

I find it a little weird that you are so fervent about Broja being better than Armstrong that you can't even listen to unrelated opinions of people who disagree with you. Like even if Broja is slightly better surely there isn't enough in it to say the contrary completely discounts the other persons view on all things football? That's an odd one for me. 

Either way, the issue with the "I just reckon Buendia is very good" approach is it isn't technically an argument, it's just a conclusion. It has no evidence and reasoning, so you can't really counter it. I've given reasons and evidence, you have no obligation to do the same but you've sent a fair few comments now, have a glance back and see if you actually say anything to justify the view, I don't mean numbers even, just something "he's good at dribbling", "he was expensive". Anything. I think you might suffer from a thing people sometimes have when they argue where they see their point of view as the default and then it is on the other person to disprove them and they can just say "no, you haven't convinced me", which isn't really a conversation.

I've said that I don't want to bog down a thread re Ralph on debating this player, and I won't get drawn in. We've taken the thread off topic enough.

If we started, we'll also get to the point where I talk about his merits as a footballer as I see them, and you'll talk about numbers. We'll get nowhere, so we may as well agree to differ before we begin! 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

I've said that I don't want to bog down a thread re Ralph on debating this player, and I won't get drawn in. We've taken the thread off topic enough.

If we started, we'll also get to the point where I talk about his merits as a footballer as I see them, and you'll talk about numbers. We'll get nowhere, so we may as well agree to differ before we begin! 

That's reasonable. Fair enough.

[Chris cooper]

2 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

I like him too.

But I wouldn't be gutted if he went.

I'll tell you what... He won't get away with 2 9-0 hammerings and some of the piss poor runs he's been on here at any other club.

No matter how bad the squad personnel is, you should never be getting plastered 9-0.

Granted we've been good lately but let's see where we finish.

The truth shall set you free !! 👌🏻

[Dellman]

And if he left, what sort of a manager will we get who is willing to work with no investment? We're lucky to have someone apparently happy to work within limitations not normal in the top tier. This is a big factor

[DT]

7 hours ago, Dellman said:

And if he left, what sort of a manager will we get who is willing to work with no investment? We're lucky to have someone apparently happy to work within limitations not normal in the top tier. This is a big factor

It could be argued he’s lucky to be in a job given his record, often mystifying tactics/substitutions/player selections and the two 9-0s though, so probably cuts both ways. Don’t think there’s be a shortage of candidates if he did go. 

[Sunglasses Ron]

I think both manager and club have truly found their level with one another and I’m liking the stability it’s given us.

I like Ralph (as much as one can for someone who’s served up two 9-0 defeats) and hope he stays and wins a trophy to leave a positive legacy.

[CAH61]

1 hour ago, Sunglasses Ron said:

I think both manager and club have truly found their level with one another and I’m liking the stability it’s given us.

I like Ralph (as much as one can for someone who’s served up two 9-0 defeats) and hope he stays and wins a trophy to leave a positive legacy.

We should have a better shot at the FA Cup this season with a kind draw, much more depth and quality in the squad.

[aintforever]

50 minutes ago, CAH61 said:

We should have a better shot at the FA Cup this season with a kind draw, much more depth and quality in the squad.

True, that's what screwed us up last season.

It was a perfect storm of a crazy schedule due to Covid, shallow squad, injuries and going for it in the cup which meant we dropped off in the league. Most sensible people realised that and didn't call for the manager's head. If we are reasonably safe in the league then I would prefer to go for a cup again.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

True, that's what screwed us up last season.

It was a perfect storm of a crazy schedule due to Covid, shallow squad, injuries and going for it in the cup which meant we dropped off in the league. Most sensible people realised that and didn't call for the manager's head. If we are reasonably safe in the league then I would prefer to go for a cup again.

Bit of a shame we couldn't get it done on pens in the league cup (and Smallbone missed that chance), a lot of big boys out of that one makes it look pretty winnable.

[pimpin4rizeal]

On 09/11/2021 at 02:04, Red said:

Ok bit of balance/sanity check here - firstly I said I'm not calling for his head, just that I would not be overly upset if he went. Secondly just 4 games ago most on here were calling for his head, and whilst we have done well in said 4 games it is not convincing IMHO. Yes football is a fickle game but in all honesty are we much improved in the last 3 years since Ralph has been in charge? Maybe we are getting there and I would be more than happy to be proven wrong but I'm not sure he's found the secret sauce as yet (appreciate he saved us in his first year but I'm talking about progression since then).

Yes we might get someone a lot worse and get relegated but who dares wins. Oh and yes Pahars was tongue in cheek but would be a great story if he turned out to have been a great emerging manager and returned to us - remember reading an article where he said he loved his time with us and hoped to return in some capacity in the future.

Again, I am not anti Ralph, it's just that I don't think he is the best thing since sliced bread despite our last 4 games 

I agree with you even though it seems not many do..

heres the thing a lot of excuses being thrown around like the club not backing him or Ralph not having much money to spend.

but really if you look at the job koeman  did at a time after we had lost talisman like players in lallana,lambert lovren etc,  koeman didn’t spend a lot either similar 12-15m average players that Ralph gets. But koeman targeted the positions to strengthen brought in players he knew could do a job there like pelle, tadic etc and he had us looking like pushing for champions league ..

we look nowhere near that under Ralph, losers like redmond still getting game time while if you were a manager with half a brain you would be focusing on strengthening these positions and redmond Walcott etc would be backups at best..

The other thing with Ralph is his treatment of our youngsters is very strange to say the least. We had valery thrown in at right back (even though he wasn’t great) whilst Cedric got put out on loan, only for next season he goes back to preferring Cedric, obafemi then got a good amount of games only to be isolated after. And now it seems tella is going the same way .

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I agree with you even though it seems not many do..

heres the thing a lot of excuses being thrown around like the club not backing him or Ralph not having much money to spend.

but really if you look at the job koeman  did at a time after we had lost talisman like players in lallana,lambert lovren etc,  koeman didn’t spend a lot either similar 12-15m average players that Ralph gets. But koeman targeted the positions to strengthen brought in players he knew could do a job there like pelle, tadic etc and he had us looking like pushing for champions league ..

we look nowhere near that under Ralph, losers like redmond still getting game time while if you were a manager with half a brain you would be focusing on strengthening these positions and redmond Walcott etc would be backups at best..

The other thing with Ralph is his treatment of our youngsters is very strange to say the least. We had valery thrown in at right back (even though he wasn’t great) whilst Cedric got put out on loan, only for next season he goes back to preferring Cedric, obafemi then got a good amount of games only to be isolated after. And now it seems tella is going the same way .

You gotta earn your spot, you won't just get it given to you for being younger or for having a good run. Obafemi was always injured and got lazy, Valery had a bright spell but was on the most part pretty weak for us and also for Birmingham. If you are good enough you will play. Livramento proved that displacing one of our top players from last season. Tella looks decent but he is still pretty raw. Both Redmond and Elyounoussi have been good so far and Armstrong is our best AM, we have a lot of competition and imo that is a good thing. Tella will have chances in cup games, when injuries hit later in the season, off the bench, and in training to impress Ralph. He has to do that, no charity.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

You gotta earn your spot, you won't just get it given to you for being younger or for having a good run. Obafemi was always injured and got lazy, Valery had a bright spell but was on the most part pretty weak for us and also for Birmingham. If you are good enough you will play. Livramento proved that displacing one of our top players from last season. Tella looks decent but he is still pretty raw. Both Redmond and Elyounoussi have been good so far and Armstrong is our best AM, we have a lot of competition and imo that is a good thing. Tella will have chances in cup games, when injuries hit later in the season, off the bench, and in training to impress Ralph. He has to do that, no charity.

Agree, also £12-15M brought more then than it does now, prices have gone up.

And Redmond and Ely do a lot of defensive work, I haven’t noticed Tella does that, so he may, but maybe that is also part of the reason.

[Sheaf Saint]

46 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

I agree with you even though it seems not many do..

heres the thing a lot of excuses being thrown around like the club not backing him or Ralph not having much money to spend.

but really if you look at the job koeman  did at a time after we had lost talisman like players in lallana,lambert lovren etc,  koeman didn’t spend a lot either similar 12-15m average players that Ralph gets. But koeman targeted the positions to strengthen brought in players he knew could do a job there like pelle, tadic etc and he had us looking like pushing for champions league ..

we look nowhere near that under Ralph, losers like redmond still getting game time while if you were a manager with half a brain you would be focusing on strengthening these positions and redmond Walcott etc would be backups at best..

The other thing with Ralph is his treatment of our youngsters is very strange to say the least. We had valery thrown in at right back (even though he wasn’t great) whilst Cedric got put out on loan, only for next season he goes back to preferring Cedric, obafemi then got a good amount of games only to be isolated after. And now it seems tella is going the same way .

I really don't think there is any fair comparison to be made between the two, for numerous reasons.

1. The club was in a much more stable financial position then, as this was before the Gao takeover. On top of that, we had all the money raised from the sales of Lallana, Shaw, Lovren, Lambert and Chambers. Koeman spent £86m in his first season alone. Ralph has never had anything like that kind of budget.

2. The squad Koeman inherited was much better than what Ralph had to work with when he arrived, and already included Fonte, Clyne, Schneiderlin and Wanyama, all of whom went on to be sold for big fees and/or play for CL clubs. He also had Bertrand at his peak and Steven Davis, both of whom were excellent for us during Koeman's tenure. He only needed a few additions to replace the leaving players. Thanks to some piss poor recruitment from Reed and Wilson in between, Ralph inherited a squad that included Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Clasie and Austin, most of whom we couldn't even give away thus completely hindering our ability to bring in new players. The only really decent players in that squad when he arrived were Ings, Romeu, Hojbjerg, and an already declining Bertrand. Some though, like JWP, Stu and Stephens have gone on to show a big improvement under his management.

The whole identity of the club now is nothing like what it was in 2014 when we signed Koeman. We don't realistically have any players (bar perhaps JWP) that we could sell to the likes of Liverpool for ridiculous fees. We operate on completely different budget constraints and we're only now beginning to see an improvement having finally undone the damage caused by the disastrous recruitment from 2016-2018. So while there may be a handful of managers out there who might be able to extract better from the group of players we have, it would be far too risky (an un-necessary) at this point to let him go and try and find one, lest we end up with another Pellegrino.

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

The whole identity of the club now is nothing like what it was in 2014 when we signed Koeman. We don't realistically have any players (bar perhaps JWP) that we could sell to the likes of Liverpool for ridiculous fees. 

Livramento, Salisu and Walker-Peters would all fetch huge fees in addition to Ward-Prowse. 

[Sheaf Saint]

1 minute ago, Matthew Le God said:

Livramento, Salisu and Walker-Peters would all fetch huge fees in addition to Ward-Prowse. 

Eventually, yes. But they are far from the finished article yet. 

The point is that we don't have a squad full of players that are coveted by bigger clubs, like we did in 2014-16.

[CAH61]

9 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I really don't think there is any fair comparison to be made between the two, for numerous reasons.

1. The club was in a much more stable financial position then, as this was before the Gao takeover. On top of that, we had all the money raised from the sales of Lallana, Shaw, Lovren, Lambert and Chambers. Koeman spent £86m in his first season alone. Ralph has never had anything like that kind of budget.

2. The squad Koeman inherited was much better than what Ralph had to work with when he arrived, and already included Fonte, Clyne, Schneiderlin and Wanyama, all of whom went on to be sold for big fees and/or play for CL clubs. He also had Bertrand at his peak and Steven Davis, both of whom were excellent for us during Koeman's tenure. He only needed a few additions to replace the leaving players. Thanks to some piss poor recruitment from Reed and Wilson in between, Ralph inherited a squad that included Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Clasie and Austin, most of whom we couldn't even give away thus completely hindering our ability to bring in new players. The only really decent players in that squad when he arrived were Ings, Romeu, Hojbjerg, and an already declining Bertrand. Some though, like JWP, Stu and Stephens have gone on to show a big improvement under his management.

The whole identity of the club now is nothing like what it was in 2014 when we signed Koeman. We don't realistically have any players (bar perhaps JWP) that we could sell to the likes of Liverpool for ridiculous fees. We operate on completely different budget constraints and we're only now beginning to see an improvement having finally undone the damage caused by the disastrous recruitment from 2016-2018. So while there may be a handful of managers out there who might be able to extract better from the group of players we have, it would be far too risky (an un-necessary) at this point to let him go and try and find one, lest we end up with another Pellegrino.

 

Good post, Shane Long was another at his peak under Koeman.

[Matthew Le God]

4 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Eventually, yes. But they are far from the finished article yet. 

We probably aren't going to sell them when they are the finished article. van Dijk wasn't the finished article when we sold him for a world record £75m. Potential still warrants a big price.

Edited 10 November, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[aintforever]

3 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We probably aren't going to sell them when they are the finished article. van Dijk wasn't the finished article when we sold him for a world record £75m. Potential still warrants a big price.

That's bollocks, you don't walk into the Liverpool first XI and make them a better team if you are not a top player.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We probably aren't going to sell them when they are the finished article. van Dijk wasn't the finished article when we sold him for a world record £75m. Potential still warrants a big price.

I disagree. Van Dijk was fantastic when he left us, he improved Liverpool straight away. Within months all those who said Liverpool overpaid were eating their words. The media narrative is that Klopp improved him because Klopp is the darling of the press, but he was a great player when we sold him and showed it as soon as he got there.

[Turkish]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

That's bollocks, you don't walk into the Liverpool first XI and make them a better team if you are not a top player.

For once you are right, well done.

[HarvSFC]

Van Dijk only became world class when he went to Liverpool, it’s well acknowledged by the media… 🤷‍♂️

[CAH61]

1 minute ago, aintforever said:

That's bollocks, you don't walk into the Liverpool first XI and make them a better team if you are not a top player.

Yes. I agree Van Dick was already one of the top CBs in the World with us, hence the World record fee for a defender.

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We probably aren't going to sell them when they are the finished article. van Dijk wasn't the finished article when we sold him for a world record £75m. Potential still warrants a big price.

Livramento might end up going for something near that if he continues to develop into the player we all think/hope he is.

Salisu still needs to cut out the sloppiness in his game before he could be considered a target for a CL club.

KWP is great for us but is not good enough (and prob never will be) to be first choice RB for a top 4 club.

So while we may get good fees for them when they leave, they're still not in the same bracket as the kind of players we were selling to Liverpool and Man U in 2014.

[Toadhall Saint]

20 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

We probably aren't going to sell them when they are the finished article. van Dijk wasn't the finished article when we sold him for a world record £75m. Potential still warrants a big price.

That’s just your opinion MLG. He improved them from day one. Instead of being habitual title losers they became winners.

[Bad Wolf]

21 minutes ago, CAH61 said:

Yes. I agree Van Dick was already one of the top CBs in the World with us, hence the World record fee for a defender.

I dunno about that one. Though that's usually the case when players leave us (particularly when they go to Liverpool) I think he was the exception and was lauded as being world class even when we had him.

As I say though, the sentiment is correct that is usually what happens. Pretty sure Mane was only seen as "quite good" when we had him.

As for Ralph, looks like Gerrard IS definitely going to Villa so it's just the mighty Norwich that we have to worry about...

Edited 10 November, 2021 by Instant Classic
Left out a bit

[pimpin4rizeal]

47 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I really don't think there is any fair comparison to be made between the two, for numerous reasons.

1. The club was in a much more stable financial position then, as this was before the Gao takeover. On top of that, we had all the money raised from the sales of Lallana, Shaw, Lovren, Lambert and Chambers. Koeman spent £86m in his first season alone. Ralph has never had anything like that kind of budget.

2. The squad Koeman inherited was much better than what Ralph had to work with when he arrived, and already included Fonte, Clyne, Schneiderlin and Wanyama, all of whom went on to be sold for big fees and/or play for CL clubs. He also had Bertrand at his peak and Steven Davis, both of whom were excellent for us during Koeman's tenure. He only needed a few additions to replace the leaving players. Thanks to some piss poor recruitment from Reed and Wilson in between, Ralph inherited a squad that included Carillo, Hoedt, Lemina, Boufal, Clasie and Austin, most of whom we couldn't even give away thus completely hindering our ability to bring in new players. The only really decent players in that squad when he arrived were Ings, Romeu, Hojbjerg, and an already declining Bertrand. Some though, like JWP, Stu and Stephens have gone on to show a big improvement under his management.

The whole identity of the club now is nothing like what it was in 2014 when we signed Koeman. We don't realistically have any players (bar perhaps JWP) that we could sell to the likes of Liverpool for ridiculous fees. We operate on completely different budget constraints and we're only now beginning to see an improvement having finally undone the damage caused by the disastrous recruitment from 2016-2018. So while there may be a handful of managers out there who might be able to extract better from the group of players we have, it would be far too risky (an un-necessary) at this point to let him go and try and find one, lest we end up with another Pellegrino.

 

But still you’ve got to factor in when koeman arrived we had just lost 3 of our best players. Lallana lambert and lovren were absolutely brilliant for us.. was no easy task for koeman but somehow he used his knowledge of the Dutch league transfer market and took us to the next level.. imigine that instead of of signing mane tadic pelle and Toby/vvd we signed che Walcott djenepo and salisu.. doubt we would have replicated the success and a lot of this has to be credited to koeman.

although I do appreciate the board has a lot of say on transfers and it’s not just completely down to the manager, but koeman felt more like a manager and not a coach it worked brilliantly imo 

[Minsk]

17 minutes ago, Instant Classic said:

I dunno about that one. Though that's usually the case when players leave us (particularly when they go to Liverpool) I think he was the exception and was lauded as being world class even when we had him.

As I say though, the sentiment is correct that is usually what happens. Pretty sure Mane was only seen as "quite good" when we had him.

As for Ralph, looks like Gerrard IS definitely going to Villa so it's just the mighty Norwich that we have to worry about...

van Dijk was definitely already top notch while still with us. Don't see that he has improved in any way since being at Liverpool. 

As for Norwich, sure I read somewhere that Lampard tops their list. (I do realise your words above were tongue in cheek).

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 hours ago, CAH61 said:

We should have a better shot at the FA Cup this season with a kind draw, much more depth and quality in the squad.

Better? We had a decent shot last season, but were pretty pathetic in the semi final. 

History tells us we don’t get many chances to reach a final and the last 2 have been fucking limp surrenders. 

[LuckyNumber7]

16 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

But still you’ve got to factor in when koeman arrived we had just lost 3 of our best players. Lallana lambert and lovren were absolutely brilliant for us.. was no easy task for koeman but somehow he used his knowledge of the Dutch league transfer market and took us to the next level.. imigine that instead of of signing mane tadic pelle and Toby/vvd we signed che Walcott djenepo and salisu.. doubt we would have replicated the success and a lot of this has to be credited to koeman.

although I do appreciate the board has a lot of say on transfers and it’s not just completely down to the manager, but koeman felt more like a manager and not a coach it worked brilliantly imo 

Koeman did an excellent job, but unlike Ralph he was able to largely build his own squad from the moment he arrived thanks to the sales generated that summer. Yes we sold some very good players, but he was given most if not all that money to sign the players he wanted, which he did very well.

Until this past summer, Ralph had only been able to sign a handful of players in three years, whilst being stuck with a squad of highly paid players on long contracts who weren't good enough and nobody else wanted.

They have both been/are good managers for us but in very different context and circumstances.

[CAH61]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Better? We had a decent shot last season, but were pretty pathetic in the semi final. 

History tells us we don’t get many chances to reach a final and the last 2 have been fucking limp surrenders. 

 

Yes, we managed to get there but the team was almost running on empty by that point and confidence was shot after a poor run of results. If we had to play Leicester this week in a S/F I would say the odds were much more 50-50 now than they were then, that's my point.

[JustinSFC]

4 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

 

And Redmond and Ely do a lot of defensive work,

Pmsl

[Billy the Kidd]

3 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Pmsl

You’re embarrassing yourself now Justin. 

You know you’re not allowed on the internet before you’ve finished your homework. 

[Sheaf Saint]

12 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Pmsl

You might want to go and change your trousers then.

He may be a frustrating player from an attacking perspective, but only a moron who doesn't understand the basics of football would try and argue that he doesn't work hard defensively.

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You might want to go and change your trousers then.

He may be a frustrating player from an attacking perspective, but only a moron who doesn't understand the basics of football would try and argue that he doesn't work hard defensively.

Think you answered your own theory. 

[saintwbu]

Lol Koeman was buying 12-15mil players at a time when Sadio Mane cost £35mil. Ralph is buying 12-15mil players when £35mil doesn’t even get you Joelinton.

[JustinSFC]

8 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

You might want to go and change your trousers then.

He may be a frustrating player from an attacking perspective, but only a moron who doesn't understand the basics of football would try and argue that he doesn't work hard defensively.

What a load of shit.
 

Pmsl

[Sheaf Saint]

26 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Think you answered your own theory. 

His subsequent post above would appear to have removed any doubt there 🙄

[pimpin4rizeal]

25 minutes ago, saintwbu said:

Lol Koeman was buying 12-15mil players at a time when Sadio Mane cost £35mil. Ralph is buying 12-15mil players when £35mil doesn’t even get you Joelinton.

He cost 35 m because he was with bought from us with about 2 years left on his contract..

let’s not rewrite history koeman brought in mainly players from the unfashionable Dutch league.they were unproven in the prem and ended up bargains 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 hours ago, CAH61 said:

 

Yes, we managed to get there but the team was almost running on empty by that point and confidence was shot after a poor run of results. If we had to play Leicester this week in a S/F I would say the odds were much more 50-50 now than they were then, that's my point.

Thats as lame a response as the team was in the semi final last year. There's no excuse for how lame they played that day. One game from wembley they should have played their hearts out. They didn't.

[CB Fry]

1 hour ago, saintwbu said:

Lol Koeman was buying 12-15mil players at a time when Sadio Mane cost £35mil. Ralph is buying 12-15mil players when £35mil doesn’t even get you Joelinton.

Wasn't one of those 12m players that Koeman bought, er, Sadio Mane?

Actually no, I've looked, it was £10m.

Bizarre.

[The Left Back]

21 hours ago, JustinSFC said:

I like him too.

But I wouldn't be gutted if he went.

I'll tell you what... He won't get away with 2 9-0 hammerings and some of the piss poor runs he's been on here at any other club.

No matter how bad the squad personnel is, you should never be getting plastered 9-0.

Granted we've been good lately but let's see where we finish.

I think you are probably right about this.  and I think it's also probably fair to say that not many other managers would have got away with it at Saints.  Which begs the question, how did he get away with it?  My mate and I have been failing to answer this question since the first 9-0.  I remember walking home in the rain that night miserable and shell shocked (I only made it to 7 before I left).  But I didn't want Ralph to go.  And I didn't want him to go after the second one (which I turned off after we went 3-0 down).  Why is that?  It doesn't really make sense.  And yet he's still here and the majority of fans still support him.  It's kind of bonkers if you think about it that way.  

The only sense I can make of it is what I've posted before (probably on this thread but can't be arsed to look).  There is something about both him and the way he gets us playing that is really appealing for us as a club. I think when he arrived we were in dire needed of his positivity, and chest-out passion.  He then got us playing football with energy and identity.  And we've had spells since where it's been similar.  I also like the way he comes across as a person.  Yes the Liverpool sob was a bit cringy but he does seem wholeheartedly passionate and optimistic, with out cynicism or meanness. WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get.  I also think he is still developing as a manager. and I think we are as a team.  So I hope we get to see how that plays out.  I know he'll either get poached or sacked - its the way of the game - but I'd like us to complete this chapter rather than have it cut short like it was with Poch and Koeman.  He's already been here longer but he's had more to do and had to move slower - so it doesn't feel like it's the end yet.  

[CAH61]

49 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Thats as lame a response as the team was in the semi final last year. There's no excuse for how lame they played that day. One game from wembley they should have played their hearts out. They didn't.

Yes, it was a disappointment for sure but Leicester were heavy favourites on the day, it would be a lot more even odds this season

[CAH61]

3 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

I think you are probably right about this.  and I think it's also probably fair to say that not many other managers would have got away with it at Saints.  Which begs the question, how did he get away with it?  My mate and I have been failing to answer this question since the first 9-0.  I remember walking home in the rain that night miserable and shell shocked (I only made it to 7 before I left).  But I didn't want Ralph to go.  And I didn't want him to go after the second one (which I turned off after we went 3-0 down).  Why is that?  It doesn't really make sense.  And yet he's still here and the majority of fans still support him.  It's kind of bonkers if you think about it that way.  

The only sense I can make of it is what I've posted before (probably on this thread but can't be arsed to look).  There is something about both him and the way he gets us playing that is really appealing for us as a club. I think when he arrived we were in dire needed of his positivity, and chest-out passion.  He then got us playing football with energy and identity.  And we've had spells since where it's been similar.  I also like the way he comes across as a person.  Yes the Liverpool sob was a bit cringy but he does seem wholeheartedly passionate and optimistic, with out cynicism or meanness. WYSIWYG - What you see is what you get.  I also think he is still developing as a manager. and I think we are as a team.  So I hope we get to see how that plays out.  I know he'll either get poached or sacked - its the way of the game - but I'd like us to complete this chapter rather than have it cut short like it was with Poch and Koeman.  He's already been here longer but he's had more to do and had to move slower - so it doesn't feel like it's the end yet.  

I think it's that Pellegrino and Hughes and to a lesser extent Puel are still fresh in the memory and Ralph's teams have shown periods of what might be possible. His high energy style of football is appealing but it was also detrimental in the second half of last season when the squad collectively ran out of gas.

[Manuel]

8 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

I think you are probably right about this.  and I think it's also probably fair to say that not many other managers would have got away with it at Saints.  Which begs the question, how did he get away with it?  My mate and I have been failing to answer this question since the first 9-0.  I remember walking home in the rain that night miserable and shell shocked (I only made it to 7 before I left).  But I didn't want Ralph to go.  And I didn't want him to go after the second one (which I turned off after we went 3-0 down).  Why is that?  It doesn't really make sense.  And yet he's still here and the majority of fans still support him.  It's kind of bonkers if you think about it that way.  

I think it's because he has been able to produce excellent football with few resources (compared to most Prem clubs).  There have been times when I thought we could beat anybody under Ralph.  Real highs and lows.  If he wasn't able to give us those highs he'd be gone.  Get him consistently delivering and we've got a winner.  Glad we stuck with him but, like most, if we lose a few in a row again I'll be here moaning as much as the next man.  

 

[LiberalCommunist]

The two 9's were extraordinary games. The red cards played a massive part. 

We still would have lost both, but the games wouldn't have been as disgustingly bad.

I don't blame Ralph for the historic nature of those two games. But he does shoulder the blame for quite a lot of other defeats.

The thing that has carried him through is, he does seem to learn from things.....................although sometimes frustratingly slowly. 

We wouldn't find someone better though, so lets pause that for a while yet. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Even Klopp's Liverpool managed to lose 7-2 in a game against villa. It's the nature of the system we and they play that it can bring great results but if anything isn't working properly then it can go catastrophically wrong.