Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Baird of the land]

7 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

My only expectation is Ralph picks the best available players in their best positions, makes changes promptly when they are not working out and gets the team up to have a really good go at the teams in our mini league. Those are the things he continually gets wrong, which is why I am starting to get really fed up with him..  

Every fan will have their own view on who is the best available player for positions. 

This season generally he's been better at making changes since the Everton game, something which annoyed me too. This week was a slight regression as I'd have preferred him to have taken off Walcott 10/15 minutes earlier.

Of the teams in our mini league felt we have had a good go at Burnley, leeds & Newcastle so far, with only Wolves being poor.

[The Left Back]

28 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

My only expectation is Ralph picks the best available players in their best positions, makes changes promptly when they are not working out and gets the team up to have a really good go at the teams in our mini league. Those are the things he continually gets wrong, which is why I am starting to get really fed up with him..  

Given words like 'best' and 'promptly' are subjective and you say he continually gets things wrong you may as well say that your expectation is that Ralph doesn't pick the team you want him to and doesn't make subs when you want him to.  

My expectation is he picks the team and makes the changes he thinks give us the best chance of success.  My faith in him as our manager is tested sometimes, eg Walcott on Saturday, but that is primarily because (a) we didn't win and (b) I would have picked someone else or hooked him earlier. 

Not sure where I am going with this, bear with me.

I guess I'm reacting badly to 'continually gets wrong' - it's too binary or hyperbolic.  I get that you are getting fed up with him (even though I am not personally there yet).  But it would be fairer to say something like 'he sometimes/often does things I don't agree with'.  Now I've written this down I'm not sure it's adding much but I may as well use my 3-post allocation up early today.

Since writing this I see @Baird of the landhas made a similar point much more effectively so apologies for repetition

Edited 26 October, 2021 by The Left Back

[Toussaint]

6 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Every fan will have their own view on who is the best available player for positions. 

This season generally he's been better at making changes since the Everton game, something which annoyed me too. This week was a slight regression as I'd have preferred him to have taken off Walcott 10/15 minutes earlier.

Of the teams in our mini league felt we have had a good go at Burnley, leeds & Newcastle so far, with only Wolves being poor.

Its all hypothetical but it could easily  have been 3 points against Burnley, I hold Ralph responsible for that, and for Wolves, there are 5 points dropped that could end up being massive. 

[Toussaint]

4 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

Given words like 'best' and 'promptly' are subjective and you say he continually gets things wrong you may as well say that your expectation is that Ralph doesn't pick the team you want him to and doesn't make subs when you want him to.  

My expectation is he picks the team and makes the changes he thinks give us the best chance of success.  My faith in him as our manager is tested sometimes, eg Walcott on Saturday, but that is primarily because (a) we didn't win and (b) I would have picked someone else or hooked him earlier. 

Not sure where I am going with this, bear with me.

I guess I'm reacting badly to 'continually gets wrong' - it's too binary or hyperbolic.  I get that you are getting fed up with him (even though I am not personally there yet).  But it would be fairer to say something like 'he sometimes/often does things I don't agree with'.  Now I've written this down I'm not sure it's adding much but I may as well use my 3-post allocation up early today.

Since writing this I see @Baird of the landhas made a similar point much more effectively so apologies for repetition

It's just my perception, not a scientific or technical analysis. I'm just a long suffering fan, I didn't take a lot of time to compose my post, I'm supposed to be working. I don't have the entrenched positions of others re Broja or Livramneto at RM for example, so its not really about the team I want, I just knew he'd start Theo Saturday, I even posted that thought a day or two before. There are plenty of examples of Ralph getting things horribly wrong. It's not my mission to influence anyone, I'm just expressing my frustration. I don't especially want Ralph to go, but I don't think he makes the best use of his resources. Of course, subject to fan type fickleness, if we get a decent return from the next 3 I may feel OK again. 

[Dman]

4 hours ago, Minsk said:

There we go, little SKDMan reverting back to name calling because others have a different opinion. It is you, and your ilk, who are the hypocrites. A year ago calendar year results meant nothing. Now they are the be all and end all. We have merely pointed out that if they didn't matter then they don't matter now. Please tell me how many points we have dropped this season due to our form in February or March. Please post links that indicate any premier league manager was sacked this early into a season based on his team's performances the previous ones. To not understand the reasons for many of those results last season, and to deny that we have improved upon those performances, says far more about you than it does us.

Of course it is what is happening this season that matters. If we were: getting played off the park; getting ripped apart defensively over and over again; completely failing to make any goal scoring chances ourselves - then you might have a point. However, we have put in many good performances; are much tighter defensively; have created more chances than our opposition in more matches than not. Is Ralph perfect? No. Does he make mistakes/do things I disagree with? Absolutely. However, some of us are able to see the bigger picture; some you are either not or simply refuse to do so (because you couldn't possibly admit to anything that goes against your long held agenda).

 

I’ve never said that calendar year results matter. They’re irrelevant.

Ralph could win us the league, but if we’re on a prolonged poor run of form (say 38 games with 8 wins) and in grave danger of relegation the following year, he should rightly be sacked. Exactly like Leicester done with Ranieri.

You can dress it up and make as many excuses as you like, just admit you’re a big Ralph fan and you won’t call for his head. That’s fair enough, own it. If this was boring old Puel, I very much doubt you’d be defending him like you do though. 

I however, will look at the facts. 8 wins in 38 (equivalent of a full seasons worth) of games. That’s a win %, pretty much in line with Pellegrino. You can argue performances are getting better, but results aren’t. 1 win in 9 this season having played 3 of the teams who’ll be around us this season (Newcastle, Burnley, Leeds). 

At what point do you say enough is enough? If 38 games isn’t enough for you to start to question if this man is right for us, then when is? 
 

This thread was started back in 2019, off the back of our first 9-0 defeat and a run of something like 2 wins in 15 games. Many questioning the managers team selection and tactics. 2 years on we’re on a similar, but worse, run of form. 

I don’t need to post you a link, but If you honestly think that no manager has been sacked early into the season because of an overhang of poor form from the back end of a previous season, then you are completely deluded. 

If and when Ralph is sacked, it won’t be solely because of these 9 games this season, it’ll be because of the last year as a whole. 

[Mosin]

6 hours ago, Toussaint said:

It's just my perception, not a scientific or technical analysis. I'm just a long suffering fan, I didn't take a lot of time to compose my post, I'm supposed to be working. I don't have the entrenched positions of others re Broja or Livramneto at RM for example, so its not really about the team I want, I just knew he'd start Theo Saturday, I even posted that thought a day or two before. There are plenty of examples of Ralph getting things horribly wrong. It's not my mission to influence anyone, I'm just expressing my frustration. I don't especially want Ralph to go, but I don't think he makes the best use of his resources. Of course, subject to fan type fickleness, if we get a decent return from the next 3 I may feel OK again. 

since when did we play with either a RM or a LM? in Ralphs time here we have played a few formations, the so called wide mids have always played to the center of the pitch not an LM /  RM role? if he moves liv to RM it will also mean a complete change of ralphs tacitcs which he has been drilling into the team for years, it wouldnt make sense and would more than likely annoy the club as his tactics is taught in all age groups at the club.

Edited 26 October, 2021 by Mosin

[Lord Duckhunter]

35 minutes ago, Mosin said:

as his tactics is taught in all age groups at the club.

How’s that working out?
 

Are they as “unlucky” as the first team?

[Toussaint]

42 minutes ago, Mosin said:

since when did we play with either a RM or a LM? in Ralphs time here we have played a few formations, the so called wide mids have always played to the center of the pitch not an LM /  RM role? if he moves liv to RM it will also mean a complete change of ralphs tacitcs which he has been drilling into the team for years, it wouldnt make sense and would more than likely annoy the club as his tactics is taught in all age groups at the club.

What-everrrr 

[Teddeer]

51 minutes ago, Mosin said:

since when did we play with either a RM or a LM? in Ralphs time here we have played a few formations, the so called wide mids have always played to the center of the pitch not an LM /  RM role? if he moves liv to RM it will also mean a complete change of ralphs tacitcs which he has been drilling into the team for years, it wouldnt make sense and would more than likely annoy the club as his tactics is taught in all age groups at the club.

Maybe it's his tactics that are the problem. Just saying.

[HnycS]

8 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

It was because it was the first time that he had ever beaten a Klopp led team after years of trying.

Also what everybody seems to forget is that Ralph's wife had just been cleared after failing a COVID test, a period during which he continued to work remotely. So given that context I suspect most of us might have shed a few tears, including Lord D, although I suspect he is a Pony bot so maybe not?

[miserableoldgit]

11 minutes ago, HnycS said:

Also what everybody seems to forget is that Ralph's wife had just been cleared after failing a COVID test, a period during which he continued to work remotely. So given that context I suspect most of us might have shed a few tears, including Lord D, although I suspect he is a Pony bot so maybe not?

Incoming!!!! Tin hat time!

[Toussaint]

17 minutes ago, HnycS said:

Also what everybody seems to forget is that Ralph's wife had just been cleared after failing a COVID test, a period during which he continued to work remotely. So given that context I suspect most of us might have shed a few tears, including Lord D, although I suspect he is a Pony bot so maybe not?

Unlikely 

[Lord Duckhunter]

[Matthew Le God]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Can you define your use of 'Noddy'? Emotions are involuntary. 

[Mosin]

31 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

How’s that working out?
 

Are they as “unlucky” as the first team?

do you not know? under 18's just beat west brom 5-1, Leicester 2-0 and 3-0 the B team just beat Reading and Wolves the Womens teams last game they won 9-0, unfortunatly the game against Cardiff got postponed... but really its a waste of time telling you, a fan who knows nothing of the club.. awesome fan.

25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

What-everrrr 

did i go into some thing you know nothing about?, any thing more than a breif discription is to much for some, its ok, we undertsand, we understand that to some, a simple 442 is already to complicated, let alone undertsanding of how the posistions and roles can be completely changed.

16 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Maybe it's his tactics that are the problem. Just saying.

maybe, or its a team under funded that sells its best players and bargain hunts for replacements because it cant afford to pay out any more due to the mistakes made by the last board. Ralph is doing a good job with what he has.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 minute ago, Mosin said:

 the Womens teams last game they won 9-0, unfortunatly the game against Cardiff got postponed... 

God, the cult have really jumped the shark now , Ralph’s playbook is working on the birds team, 😂 

[Matthew Le God]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

God, the cult have really jumped the shark now , Ralph’s playbook is working on the birds team, 😂 

🙄

You are a...

[Teddeer]

9 minutes ago, Mosin said:

do you not know? under 18's just beat west brom 5-1, Leicester 2-0 and 3-0 the B team just beat Reading and Wolves the Womens teams last game they won 9-0, unfortunatly the game against Cardiff got postponed... but really its a waste of time telling you, a fan who knows nothing of the club.. awesome fan.

did i go into some thing you know nothing about?, any thing more than a breif discription is to much for some, its ok, we undertsand, we understand that to some, a simple 442 is already to complicated, let alone undertsanding of how the posistions and roles can be completely changed.

maybe, or its a team under funded that sells its best players and bargain hunts for replacements because it cant afford to pay out any more due to the mistakes made by the last board. Ralph is doing a good job with what he has.

Unfortunately one of the players Ralph has is Walcott and for some strange reason he considers him a first pick. He seems to be in the minority on that.

[Toussaint]

18 minutes ago, Mosin said:

do you not know? under 18's just beat west brom 5-1, Leicester 2-0 and 3-0 the B team just beat Reading and Wolves the Womens teams last game they won 9-0, unfortunatly the game against Cardiff got postponed... but really its a waste of time telling you, a fan who knows nothing of the club.. awesome fan.

did i go into some thing you know nothing about?, any thing more than a breif discription is to much for some, its ok, we undertsand, we understand that to some, a simple 442 is already to complicated, let alone undertsanding of how the posistions and roles can be completely changed.

maybe, or its a team under funded that sells its best players and bargain hunts for replacements because it cant afford to pay out any more due to the mistakes made by the last board. Ralph is doing a good job with what he has.

What a tit

[Mr X]

RH Deserves credit for the team performance tonight but needs to end his love in with Walcott asap 

[Tamesaint]

8 minutes ago, Mr X said:

RH Deserves credit for the team performance tonight but needs to end his love in with Walcott asap 

Of course he deserves credit. A bloody great performance.  Pity it ended as it did but doubtless the "Ralph noddy" brigade will find something to kick off about. 

[Disco Stu]

You know what you're going to get with Ralph. A team that works hard and is well drilled in pressing. You'll also get questionable team selections and substitutions. I'm indifferent towards him at the moment after some embarrassing results and regular dropped points from winning positions. It seems the players still want to work for him though.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

Players are clearly still playing for him

[Suhari]

He's showing more flexibility in tactics, we've got more squad options than before and the team are looking a tougher outfit.

He does make the odd strange decision, but show me a Saints manager that didn't.

He's good for us. We'll be fine this season.

[rooney]

Well done Ralph. Keep up the good work.

[Maya's Dad]

I was one of the first to criticise Ralph on the weekend for picking Walcott and then leaving him on for 75 mins, but I think credit where credits due. We all know he loves his 4222 but he showed he is capable of moving away from it when necessary and against Chelsea it nearly got us the win. Thought the tactics and shape were spot on and both Valery and KWP were used in roles which helped the team. 

[Give it to Ron]

Koeman available now after the sack at Barca, 2 things that  should never have left Southampton The Titanic and Koeman 🙂

[Badger]

59 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Koeman available now after the sack at Barca, 2 things that  should never have left Southampton The Titanic and Koeman 🙂

And of course Lawrie 

[Sheaf Saint]

I'd like to know what these experts who have been telling us that Ralph is clueless and a terrible manager who's been found out think he did wrong today.

Must have been something, yeah?

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

I'd like to know what these experts who have been telling us that Ralph is clueless and a terrible manager who's been found out think he did wrong today.

Must have been something, yeah?

It’ll be his dress sense.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

I'd like to know what these experts who have been telling us that Ralph is clueless and a terrible manager who's been found out think he did wrong today.

Must have been something, yeah?

Walcott was on the bench and shouldn't have even been on the bus 

[Sarisbury Saint]

He can stay another week, lose next game and he’s out.

[Wade Garrett]

As one of Ralph’s sternest critics on here, even I accept that any talk of him being sacked is pretty daft.

Fortunately, the club seems to be run by professionals thankfully, and not people like me.

[FarehamSaintJames]

Seven points from nine, and honestly I’d have thought us lucky to even get a point against Leeds, I’ll take that all day

[saint1977]

On 28/10/2021 at 00:05, Give it to Ron said:

Koeman available now after the sack at Barca, 2 things that  should never have left Southampton The Titanic and Koeman 🙂

Won Nations League with national team and always wanted to be Barca manager. Not great circumstances for him or them, but hefty pay off I expect and he can retire happy. His time at SFC saw 2 of the best top flight seasons for many years.

Onto RH. He has a young, energetic and promising side playing for him, defensively far more stable and working hard. We’d like a bit more threat in front goal but the chances are being created. Can’t see a rationale to make a change at present but the club had to look at it after the prior few months and capitulations. Look much stronger with Vesty moved on, Berty past his best although great in his prime. 

[Christophenburg]

Part of the problem around the Ralph In/Out thing is that nuance is dead - if you're remotely critical of team selection or tactics then the Ralph fans slate you for being negative, if you want to give Ralph a chance to turn things around in a bad patch then Ralph critics slate you for being part of his supporter cult. It means that a 1-0 loss is a sign Ralph is the worst manager in the premier league to some, and to others a 1-0 win is a sign he's the greatest manager Saints have ever had.

For my 2p - I still think some of Ralph's selection choices are baffling but we're beginning to find some confidence and momentum again which is great, particularly as our defence seems much more stable/less error prone.

[Chris cooper]

42 minutes ago, Christophenburg said:

Part of the problem around the Ralph In/Out thing is that nuance is dead - if you're remotely critical of team selection or tactics then the Ralph fans slate you for being negative, if you want to give Ralph a chance to turn things around in a bad patch then Ralph critics slate you for being part of his supporter cult. It means that a 1-0 loss is a sign Ralph is the worst manager in the premier league to some, and to others a 1-0 win is a sign he's the greatest manager Saints have ever had.

For my 2p - I still think some of Ralph's selection choices are baffling but we're beginning to find some confidence and momentum again which is great, particularly as our defence seems much more stable/less error prone.

Conte to spurs .. Conte raid saints for salisu next season 

[Give it to Ron]

49 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

Conte to spurs .. Conte raid saints for salisu next season 

Do you think we can hold onto him then?

[Chris cooper]

6 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Do you think we can hold onto him then?

Would love to say yes .. but it’s a big fat nope 👎🏻 

[BERMUDASAINT]

On 26/10/2021 at 13:55, Lord Duckhunter said:

How’s that working out?
 

Are they as “unlucky” as the first team?

Pony! Sorry donkey! Sorry ass!

[TWar]

26 minutes ago, Give it to Ron said:

Do you think we can hold onto him then?

No, but we have him this season and we'll make good money off him so positive really. And the guys spending the money also brought in Salisu, as well as other quality signings like Tino, KWP, Diallo, Adams, Armstrong, Broja, et al. so I'm confident we'll spend it well.

[Baird of the land]

1 hour ago, Chris cooper said:

Conte to spurs .. Conte raid saints for salisu next season 

Maybe just me and my view of Spurs as essentially a mid table team temporarily elevated by Poch & kane but don't know why Conte would be interested in the Spurs job.

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Baird of the land said:

Maybe just me and my view of Spurs as essentially a mid table team temporarily elevated by Poch & kane but don't know why Conte would be interested in the Spurs job.

Perhaps he likes living in London, they can offer him a huge wage, decent transfer and wage budget and their squad is still pretty decent.

[Give it to Ron]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

No, but we have him this season and we'll make good money off him so positive really. And the guys spending the money also brought in Salisu, as well as other quality signings like Tino, KWP, Diallo, Adams, Armstrong, Broja, et al. so I'm confident we'll spend it well.

That’s our policy until we get new owners and sooner fans  realise that the better.

It’s early days but looks like our recruiting has improved since wee Ross left.

Edited 1 November, 2021 by Give it to Ron

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Give it to Ron said:

That’s our policy until we get new owners and sooner fans  realise that the better.

It’s early days but looks like our recruiting has improved since wee Ross left.

Sign young, recruit well, sell well, repeat.

Certainly seeing us line up with Salisu and Livramento is a world better than Vestergaard and Bertrand (I know different side, but KWP has moved across)

[Mr X]

I still think he is prone to crazy decisions, formations and tactics but yeah it would be silly to replace him at this stage of the season, I will never be his biggest fan but if he can continue to keep us clear of the relegation zone after xmas then all good & happy to recognise he has improved us defensively at least.  

[Mr Nimbus]

The over riding concern for me (especially during that dire run last season) was the defence. We constantly just shipped goals and that was putting us out of games very quickly.

That (for now) seems to have been worked on incredibly well. Just reading through some stats sites and our defensive numbers are really strong.
 

That is the sign of a good coach and with the amount of younger players we have, I personally think that is incredibly important for their development.

TLDR - Ralph in for me (which is a shift from my stance in the summer) 

[TWar]

46 minutes ago, Mr Nimbus said:

The over riding concern for me (especially during that dire run last season) was the defence. We constantly just shipped goals and that was putting us out of games very quickly.

That (for now) seems to have been worked on incredibly well. Just reading through some stats sites and our defensive numbers are really strong.
 

That is the sign of a good coach and with the amount of younger players we have, I personally think that is incredibly important for their development.

TLDR - Ralph in for me (which is a shift from my stance in the summer) 

From my perspective I usually moan when people blame Ralph when recruitment is the issue. So in this circumstance I feel obliged to point out that, whilst Ralph has done well integrating them, a huge amount of credit needs to go to whoever scouted out and recruited our two best players this season, Salisu and Livramento, both for under £16m combined, and with an average age of just over 20. Excellent, excellent work.

Edited 1 November, 2021 by TWar

[pimpin4rizeal]

Honestly I think I’d still make a change,

there’s some great options out there atm.. the likes of koeman or nuno would be a huge upgrade.

a couple of wins against poor opposition seems to be getting a load of overreaction that Ralph is now great again.. but how many premiership wins have we had since January ? 
 

do you really want to see the likes of redmond elyounoussi and Walcott playing every week ? It’s depressing seeing these team selections under Ralph and the football isn’t great either 

[Charlie Wayman]

1 hour ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Honestly I think I’d still make a change,

there’s some great options out there atm.. the likes of koeman or nuno would be a huge upgrade.

a couple of wins against poor opposition seems to be getting a load of overreaction that Ralph is now great again.. but how many premiership wins have we had since January ? 
 

do you really want to see the likes of redmond elyounoussi and Walcott playing every week ? It’s depressing seeing these team selections under Ralph and the football isn’t great either 

The point you have missed completely is that Ralph does not have an abundance of world class players at his disposal, the players he has cost very little and he is trying to juggle them around as best he can to find effective combinations. Indeed it would be remiss of him not to explore all the options at his disposal.

None of the players you mention are bad players as you seem to imply, they are the sort of players we can expect to attract in our current stringent financial circumstances and is indicative of the pecking order in PL football. Of course if he had Ronaldo & Messi he would no doubt get better results.

I have an up and down relationship with our Austrian friend but there are signs that something different has happened recently, confidence seems to be growing and results are coming. If we beat Villa 3-0 tomorrow no doubt even you might be prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.

To suggest Koeman or Nunez could do more with our squad is hypothetical nonsense. These people would be faced with the same problem of "clearing the deadwood" - as they would see it - and recruiting the types pf players that would fit their respective styles of play. Rome was not built in a day, Nunez built Wolves success over a number of seasons and with a quite respectable budget. In effect he was allowed to go out and buy the Portugeuse national team.

Be very, very careful what you wish for.

Edited 4 November, 2021 by Charlie Wayman