Ralph Hasenhuttl

[tunit]

20 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

you’d see that Leeds were pretty unlucky with injuries when we faced them.

So when we have injuries then its not a good enough excuse and the manager deserves to be sacked, but when its another team then its unlucky for them? I guess if you were a Leeds fan you'd want Bielsa out right now?

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, tunit said:

So when we have injuries then its not a good enough excuse and the manager deserves to be sacked, but when its another team then its unlucky for them? I guess if you were a Leeds fan you'd want Bielsa out right now?

Maybe you should have quoted the rest of my post,  “But that’s the nature of the game”, which you conveniently left out. It’s the one eyed Ralph supporters that hide behind excuses, not me. My consistent line has been that every single team faces injuries, bad decisions, & poor luck. But that’s the nature of the game. 
 

If I was a Leeds fan I wouldn’t want him out, but if he got stuffed 9-0 twice, fucked up a cup semi final, hardly won a game for half a season, and cried when we actually did, I’d probably change my mind. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

17 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

"Prove Me Wrong". I don't remember beating the Top 6 very often under Hughes, MoPe, or even Claude Puel very often....

We’ll Puel won at Arsenal & Liverpool on the way to Wembley as well as Inter Milan (do they count) .So as I said, a couple of seasons, not “years”.  
 

Its also worth noting that none of the 3 managers you’ve mentioned suffered 1, let alone 2 humiliating 9-0’s. 

[miserableoldgit]

10 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’ll Puel won at Arsenal & Liverpool on the way to Wembley as well as Inter Milan (do they count) .So as I said, a couple of seasons, not “years”.  
 

Its also worth noting that none of the 3 managers you’ve mentioned suffered 1, let alone 2 humiliating 9-0’s. 

What is Ralph's record against the Top 6 in the league for comparison?

Edited 24 October, 2021 by miserableoldgit

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, miserableoldgit said:

What is Ralph's record against the Top 6 in the league for comparison?

When we get beaten at Watford, that wil be 4 points from 9, two of the three games at home, against direct rivals.

[Matthew Le God]

33 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When we get beaten at Watford, that wil be 4 points from 9, two of the three games at home, against direct rivals.

[miserableoldgit]

35 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

When we get beaten at Watford, that wil be 4 points from 9, two of the three games at home, against direct rivals.

Errr....you be trying to be ironic or clever, but that wasn't the question that I asked....but you knew that.

[Lord Duckhunter]

39 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

What is Ralph's record against the Top 6 in the league for comparison?

What’s that got to do with the price of eggs. Unless we’re in a 7 team league he needs to be judged on results against the whole league, not just the odd win against the top 6. Koeman, Poch & Puel managed wins against the top sides, as has Ralph. You said we hadn’t beaten the top 6 for “years”, I don’t call a couple of seasons “years”. 

[miserableoldgit]

17 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

What’s that got to do with the price of eggs. Unless we’re in a 7 team league he needs to be judged on results against the whole league, not just the odd win against the top 6. Koeman, Poch & Puel managed wins against the top sides, as has Ralph. You said we hadn’t beaten the top 6 for “years”, I don’t call a couple of seasons “years”. 

YOU picked up on a small part of my post  and commented on it......you did.......I replied and asked you for Ralphs comparative figures against against the Big Boys. Can't answer? or is it an answer that you don't like and you are deflecting? Perhaps MLG could help......

[Lord Duckhunter]

5 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

YOU picked up on a small part of my post  and commented on it......you did.......I replied and asked you for Ralphs comparative figures against against the Big Boys. Can't answer? or is it an answer that you don't like and you are deflecting? Perhaps MLG could help......

Years?

[miserableoldgit]

2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Years?

How many YEARS ago was Puel?

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

Since neither side of the argument is willing to do the leg work to support their claims as usual - against the 'traditional' top 6 (City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal)...

Puel - 0W 4D 8L

Pellegrino - 0W 3D 6L

Hughes - 0W 1D 6L

Hassenhuttl - 6W 9D 19L

Ralphs record is clearly the best of our most recent managers against the top 6 (not exactly a high bar mind) but worth noting his last win against a top 6 team was 31 games ago against Liverpool, one before that was 22 more games back against City. That's 2 wins against the 'top 6' in his last 53 league games. He's been in charge now for 108 games so that period covers half his time managing us. Following the general pattern with Ralph, he started well and has dropped off over time.

While i'm dropping stats i'd point out that last season we only won 2 out of 20 (10%) games against teams that finished in the top 10 (Liverpool and a win against 10th placed finishers Everton) and that our points total was heavily dependent on beating bottom half teams where we won 10 out of 18 (56%). So far this season we are 1 of 6 (17%) against top half teams (Leeds having finished ninth last year) and 0 for 3 (0%) against lower half/promoted teams.

Even if we win all of our next 3 games against Watford, Villa and Norwich that will only push that win % up to 50% against lower half teams - below what we got last year on what I think most would agree was not a good season for us. This is what is most concerning to me and shows how important it is to get all 3 points against these sort of teams which is what has made the results against the likes of Newcastle, Wolves and Burnley so disappointing.

Either we have to start turning some of these plucky or unlucky draws against the better teams into wins or we have to make sure we are getting all 3 points against the lesser teams more often than not.

[miserableoldgit]

11 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Since neither side of the argument is willing to do the leg work to support their claims as usual - against the 'traditional' top 6 (City, Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal)...

Puel - 0W 4D 8L = 4pts

Pellegrino - 0W 3D 6L = 3pts

Hughes - 0W 1D 6L = 1pt

Hassenhuttl - 6W 9D 19L = 27pts

Ralphs record is clearly the best of our most recent managers against the top 6 (not exactly a high bar mind) but worth noting his last win against a top 6 team was 31 games ago against Liverpool, one before that was 22 more games back against City. That's 2 wins against the 'top 6' in his last 53 league games. He's been in charge now for 108 games so that period covers half his time managing us. Following the general pattern with Ralph, he started well and has dropped off over time.

While i'm dropping stats i'd point out that last season we only won 2 out of 20 (10%) games against teams that finished in the top 10 (Liverpool and a win against 10th placed finishers Everton) and that our points total was heavily dependent on beating bottom half teams where we won 10 out of 18 (56%). So far this season we are 1 of 6 (17%) against top half teams (Leeds having finished ninth last year) and 0 for 3 (0%) against lower half/promoted teams.

Even if we win all of our next 3 games against Watford, Villa and Norwich that will only push that win % up to 50% against lower half teams - below what we got last year on what I think most would agree was not a good season for us. This is what is most concerning to me and shows how important it is to get all 3 points against these sort of teams which is what has made the results against the likes of Newcastle, Wolves and Burnley so disappointing.

Either we have to start turning some of these plucky or unlucky draws against the better teams into wins or we have to make sure we are getting all 3 points against the lesser teams more often than not.

Which is all I was saying in the original post. When you turn it into points won against Top Six sides as I have done it is more interesting...

Edited 24 October, 2021 by miserableoldgit

[Dman]

2 hours ago, tunit said:

So when we have injuries then its not a good enough excuse and the manager deserves to be sacked, but when its another team then its unlucky for them? I guess if you were a Leeds fan you'd want Bielsa out right now?

If they go on a run like we have over 30+ games and throw in 2 9-0 defeats for good measure, then yes, absolutely. 

[Saint86]

38 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Either we have to start turning some of these plucky or unlucky draws against the better teams into wins or we have to make sure we are getting all 3 points against the lesser teams more often than not.

I was just looking at the table and thinking just this. 

Its easy to say we've played 5 of the top 8 in our first 9 games (plus wolves in 11th) - but if we're to stay up without beating those teams, then we have to get the points vs those teams around us.

From the 3 teams directly below us (thats 3 of the bottom 4), we've managed 1 win and 2 draws (2 home, 1 away) - That isn't enough to inspire full confidence this season. Ultimately, we've won one game outside of the top 11 - and that was at home to 17th. Things are looking better, but we need to improve still.

Edited 24 October, 2021 by Saint86

[Billy the Kidd]

2 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I was just looking at the table and thinking just this. 

Its easy to say we've played 5 of the top 8 in our first 9 games (plus wolves in 11th) - but if we're to stay up without beating those teams, then we have to get the points vs those teams around us.

From the 3 teams directly below us (thats 3 of the bottom 4), we've managed 1 win and 2 draws (2 home, 1 away) - That isn't enough to inspire full confidence this season. Ultimately, we've won one game outside of the top 11 - and that was at home to 17th. Things are looking better, but we need to improve still.

And Wolves weren’t 11th when we played us, we were next to one another when we played. 

[danjosaint]

That won't wash well with the Ralph fan boys

[Baird of the land]

13 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

I was just looking at the table and thinking just this. 

Its easy to say we've played 5 of the top 8 in our first 9 games (plus wolves in 11th) - but if we're to stay up without beating those teams, then we have to get the points vs those teams around us.

From the 3 teams directly below us (thats 3 of the bottom 4), we've managed 1 win and 2 draws (2 home, 1 away) - That isn't enough to inspire full confidence this season. Ultimately, we've won one game outside of the top 11 - and that was at home to 17th. Things are looking better, but we need to improve still.

Being unbeaten against those below us may not inspire full confidence but it shouldn't inspire panic either. The next couple of league games will probably give a truer reflection of where we stand.

 

[Saint86]

51 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

And Wolves weren’t 11th when we played us, we were next to one another when we played. 

Fair point, that worsens my analysis as they've pulled away from us since then.

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, Saint86 said:

Fair point, that worsens my analysis as they've pulled away from us since then.

Yep, but any week now we’re going to beat someone. We’re playing really well. We’ve played all the hard games. other than playing 3 games against teams around us in Leeds, Wolves and Burnley and got 4 points.

Just no one tells us which week, or which team 😅

Also, we are averaging about 0.77 points per game. Our bad run averaged almost the same. But this season is different, or something. 

[aintforever]

Ralph has his faults but if we sacked him I would put money on the team getting worse under whoever the cub manage to bring in. I’m a big fan of Howe but I think even he would struggle to get that bunch any higher.

We’ve had a tough start and are not in the relegation zone, I don’t think we are under-performing at all, we just don’t have many good players.

[Teddeer]

I'd be interested to hear Ralph explain why he hooked Walcott at half time previously then reinstated him to the team and gave him a large chunk of the game yesterday inspite of him continuing to play so poorly. I just can't get my head around this decision. I don't expect any of the lapdog press to raise this question with him at the presser ahead of the next game because they collectively give him a very easy ride. It's like him being questioned by a bunch of his mates.

[danjosaint]

Did Ralph not say he chose Theo as wanted him to go deep and break lines, something Djenpo can't do , either way it was bullshit every tom dick and harry could see he needed to be subbed off early 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

When all sad and done and whichever side of the fence you sit with Ralph (or on it in the case of Trousers) - you have to admit when it comes to team selections and substitutions he is the most baffling and frustrating of any of our managers that I can recall.

[Mr X]

35 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

When all sad and done and whichever side of the fence you sit with Ralph (or on it in the case of Trousers) - you have to admit when it comes to team selections and substitutions he is the most baffling and frustrating of any of our managers that I can recall.

This, can't get the basics of team selection & substitutions after three years 

[The Cat]

41 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

When all sad and done and whichever side of the fence you sit with Ralph (or on it in the case of Trousers) - you have to admit when it comes to team selections and substitutions he is the most baffling and frustrating of any of our managers that I can recall.

More baffling than dropping Matt Le Tissier or bringing on Ali Dia?

[Alan Sugarfree]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

This, can't get the basics of team selection & substitutions after three years 

That’s because he’s a better coach than tactician 

[Charlie Wayman]

20 hours ago, miserableoldgit said:

I am in a bit of a quandary with Ralph. I really like the guy. He lives and breathes Saints/Football. I still believe that in the long run he could/will be an excellent manager for us, however, I am finding some of his team selections difficult to explain. The lack of opportunities for Nathan Tella and Kyle Walker-Peters (who was my Player of the Season last year) etc are mystifying. The use of a fading Shane Long (who I have always liked as a player) and Theo Walcott when better players are on the bench equally so. On the plus side, during his tenure, we have,at times, played some good, entertaining and exciting football and tweaked the noses of the "Big Boys" for the first time in years. On the down side we have had some of our worse performances under him too. I am, though, very concerned that should we replace him, who will/would come in with the situation that the club finds itself in with Mr Gao, and in the long term be able to take us forward. It is a conundrum.....

I agree with most of this. With the press calling for OGS's head after an unusual 5-0 defeat at home, Mr Hasenhüttl can count himself very fortunate indeed for making it to three years.

In my head, three years of the best and worst of what he is able to serve up is enough and we should call time and move on but in my heart I would miss him as a person of high integrity and candour in an occupation not renowned for either.

If we change nothing, nothing will change. I think we can rule out the "Roy of the Rovers" miraculous transformation that we all dream about most Friday evenings.

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Matthew Le God]

23 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

I agree with most of this. With the press calling for OGS's head after an unusual 5-0 defeat at home, Mr Hasenhüttl can count himself very fortunate indeed for making it to three years.

How is OGS spending hundreds of millions of pounds and failing relevant? 🤔

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[CAH61]

Ralph has still got some credit in the bank with me (at least until Xmas). His win % is still better than Bally and WGS's and not much below Poch's. This season is finally the one where he can say it is his team and we are still less than a quarter way through. The performances have been pretty good and we look more defensively solid on the whole and now we appear to have found a regular finisher. His teams do like to entertain unlike Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes' and he takes the cup competitions seriously and so far he's had two mid-table finishes and a good cup run and have topped the table and got some good results against the elite clubs. If we are still around the bottom 4 and still not getting wins after playing each team once then his position needs to be reviewed but not now IMO.

 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, CAH61 said:

Ralph has still got some credit in the bank with me (at least until Xmas). His win % is still better than Bally and WGS's and not much below Poch's. This season is finally the one where he can say it is his team and we are still less than a quarter way through. The performances have been pretty good and we look more defensively solid on the whole and now we appear to have found a regular finisher. His teams do like to entertain unlike Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes' and he takes the cup competitions seriously and so far he's had two mid-table finishes and a good cup run and have topped the table and got some good results against the elite clubs. If we are still around the bottom 4 and still not getting wins after playing each team once then his position needs to be reviewed but not now IMO.

 

Good post and I agree.

Ultimately, Ralph fits us if we're being honest. Plays attacking football and has a go, not too great, has some utter shite performances, but overall he does alright.

He also bloods the kids generally speaking. Although I am missing seeing Tella in games. And also, the treatment of KWP is borderline criminal for me. He is our best right back!!! - Is he worried that he won't have any cover late on if he starts all 3 as RB/LB and RAM? Because thats our best set of players imo. And then you have armstrong on the left, and Redmond/Armstrong partnering Broja?

Edit, I actually can't think of a strong enough reason not to be starting KWP as LB as a minimum.

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Saint86

[Dman]

1 hour ago, CAH61 said:

Ralph has still got some credit in the bank with me (at least until Xmas). His win % is still better than Bally and WGS's and not much below Poch's. This season is finally the one where he can say it is his team and we are still less than a quarter way through. The performances have been pretty good and we look more defensively solid on the whole and now we appear to have found a regular finisher. His teams do like to entertain unlike Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes' and he takes the cup competitions seriously and so far he's had two mid-table finishes and a good cup run and have topped the table and got some good results against the elite clubs. If we are still around the bottom 4 and still not getting wins after playing each team once then his position needs to be reviewed but not now IMO.

 

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

Why not 38?

[Mr X]

3 hours ago, Alan Sugarfree said:

That’s because he’s a better coach than tactician 

So we have a coach with no tactics? 

[Billy the Kidd]

24 minutes ago, Dman said:

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

Think I put a summary up elsewhere and the 22 games from Jan 01 were at 0.77 points per game.

This doesnt look better either...0.80 points per game - would equal 30 points in a season.

Edited 25 October, 2021 by Billy the Kidd
add tables

[Billy the Kidd]

25 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Good post and I agree.

Ultimately, Ralph fits us if we're being honest. Plays attacking football and has a go, not too great, has some utter shite performances, but overall he does alright.

He also bloods the kids generally speaking. Although I am missing seeing Tella in games. And also, the treatment of KWP is borderline criminal for me. He is our best right back!!! - Is he worried that he won't have any cover late on if he starts all 3 as RB/LB and RAM? Because thats our best set of players imo. And then you have armstrong on the left, and Redmond/Armstrong partnering Broja?

Edit, I actually can't think of a strong enough reason not to be starting KWP as LB as a minimum.

So, you are saying Ralph fits us, but...

1. He doesnt play Tella

2. KWP treatment is criminal

So, does it look to you like he knows who his best players are, for which positions?

That and we have won 6 times in the last 31 games, or if you want to focus this season, we have won 1 in 9.

[Baird of the land]

36 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Good post and I agree.

Ultimately, Ralph fits us if we're being honest. Plays attacking football and has a go, not too great, has some utter shite performances, but overall he does alright.

He also bloods the kids generally speaking. Although I am missing seeing Tella in games. And also, the treatment of KWP is borderline criminal for me. He is our best right back!!! - Is he worried that he won't have any cover late on if he starts all 3 as RB/LB and RAM? Because thats our best set of players imo. And then you have armstrong on the left, and Redmond/Armstrong partnering Broja?

On current evidence Livramento is our best right back. 

[CAH61]

36 minutes ago, Dman said:

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

In my opinion there are very good reasons why the form tailed off in the second half of last season but taking it a whole it was reasonable. It is a results business but he has earned half a season at least to get things right, sacking a manager too early is so final, just imagine if we had sacked Lawrie Mac after relegation and a couple of average seasons in the 2nd division before he got the right combination.

This season is Ralph's squad and where he should be judged and we are barely into it yet, there have been good performances and results (drawing against Citeh and Manure ) and maybe one unacceptable one against Wolves which even then the stats were in our favour.

Edited 25 October, 2021 by CAH61

[CB Fry]

So I looked at the last 29 games of last season and we are 17th with 7 wins, add that to the 1 win in the 9 of this season and we are where I'd think we are - bottom four - for the rolling 38 game "season".

It's possible we can stay up, but incredibly likely we'll go down. 

[CAH61]

21 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

So I looked at the last 29 games of last season and we are 17th with 7 wins, add that to the 1 win in the 9 of this season and we are where I'd think we are - bottom four - for the rolling 38 game "season".

It's possible we can stay up, but incredibly likely we'll go down. 

 

 

I would say at times in the second half of the season with a severely weakened team we looked like relegation candidates (but in reality we were already safe). I just don't think we are playing like a bottom 3 team with the better options this season but time will tell.

We are 4 points from the bottom 3 and 6 from the top 10 to give perspective, things can change quickly at this early stage of the season.

Edited 25 October, 2021 by CAH61

[Noodles34]

I have it on good authority that Ralph is now on the waiting list for Remedy Oaks Golf Club, he's only just joined. Wonder if he'll get to play there? 

[Toussaint]

36 minutes ago, Noodles34 said:

I have it on good authority that Ralph is now on the waiting list for Remedy Oaks Golf Club, he's only just joined. Wonder if he'll get to play there? 

If he does he'll probably choose a putter to tee off for having looked really good in the bag and boosting morale of the other clubs. 

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, CAH61 said:

 

I would say at times in the second half of the season with a severely weakened team we looked like relegation candidates (but in reality we were already safe). I just don't think we are playing like a bottom 3 team with the better options this season but time will tell.

We are 4 points from the bottom 3 and 6 from the top 10 to give perspective, things can change quickly at this early stage of the season.

Yes they can, but in either direction, that is when the avoidable loss to Wolves and the poor draw with Burnley could really start to hurt. Leeds will get players back and start climbing,  Newcastle will have a January spree, Blackburn look OK and if Cornet gets a few goals that will help, Watford, hell, what a match Saturday, we need to get something.   Norwich are the only dead cert to go down barring a miracle. It's a critical run of three games ahead of us (stating the bleedin' obvious).

[Charlie Wayman]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

So we have a coach with no tactics? 

Can you imagine getting on a coach that has no Tic Tacs on board?

[CB Fry]

17 hours ago, CAH61 said:

 

I would say at times in the second half of the season with a severely weakened team we looked like relegation candidates (but in reality we were already safe). I just don't think we are playing like a bottom 3 team with the better options this season but time will tell.

We are 4 points from the bottom 3 and 6 from the top 10 to give perspective, things can change quickly at this early stage of the season.

What "perspective" do you think "we're only 6 points from the top 10" gives you? 

After 9 games that's loads. That's miles away. Clue: it is absolutely not "two wins". 

For us to be top 10 at the halfway point of the season - 19 games - we will have needed to win probably 8 games, based on a few recent seasons. 

So seven more wins in the upcoming 10 matches to get to halfway. Seven wins.

Reckon we're close to that? That's what your perspective is telling you?

 

Edited 26 October, 2021 by CB Fry

[Minsk]

2 hours ago, CAH61 said:

 

I would say at times in the second half of the season with a severely weakened team we looked like relegation candidates (but in reality we were already safe). I just don't think we are playing like a bottom 3 team with the better options this season but time will tell.

We are 4 points from the bottom 3 and 6 from the top 10 to give perspective, things can change quickly at this early stage of the season.

They all know this. They just like to ignore to the facts. The same people were very quick in saying a year ago, when we would have been top 4, that calendar year results mean nothing. 

We are certainly playing much better this season. I think a lot are still pissed about the Wolves result and can't get over it. 

[Minsk]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

Why not the last 76 games? Actually 2 whole seasons.

What we really should be looking at is our performances THIS SEASON and how many points we have THIS SEASON. Nothing else matters!

[Toussaint]

22 minutes ago, Minsk said:

They all know this. They just like to ignore to the facts. The same people were very quick in saying a year ago, when we would have been top 4, that calendar year results mean nothing. 

We are certainly playing much better this season. I think a lot are still pissed about the Wolves result and can't get over it. 

me for example.

[TWar]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

What’s his win % over the last 35 games (effectively a full season)? That’s what we should be looking at. 
 

Seems like a very arbitrary timescale

[TWar]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So, you are saying Ralph fits us, but...

1. He doesnt play Tella

2. KWP treatment is criminal

How is it criminal to play arguably our player of the season in his best position? Also Tella is decent but he wasn't exactly undroppable last season, especially in attacking mid

Edited 25 October, 2021 by TWar