Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Billy the Kidd]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Ings, as simple as that.

It really isnt that simple. Ings got 12 goals last season. Adams got 9 i think. Same Q to you as I just posted to John B:

So, would you keep Ralph then if we continue to lose? I mean, how long would you continue to back the manager?

[rooney]

31 minutes ago, John B said:

Give Ralph a rest 

 

The Players are clearly not good enough no wonder we are scoring goals

 

Adams and Armstrong must the weakest pair of strikers we have ever had in the Top Division 

 

 

We used to have Tadic, Mane and Pelle, now we have these and Redmond

[Nordic Saint]

21 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

It really isnt that simple. Ings got 12 goals last season. Adams got 9 i think. Same Q to you as I just posted to John B:

So, would you keep Ralph then if we continue to lose? I mean, how long would you continue to back the manager?

You can't underestimate the importance of a striker of the calibre of Ings. He creates a lot of goals as well as scores them. His constant pressing and goal threat also mean the opposition have to keep men back. He has got 2 goals and 2 assists in the Premier League already this season. Without his goals and assists in the Premier League last season, we'd have been 16 points worse off.  I'm pretty sure we would have won a game by now if he had still been here.

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, Nordic Saint said:

You can't underestimate the importance of a striker of the calibre of Ings. He creates a lot of goals as well as scores them. His constant pressing and goal threat also mean the opposition have to keep men back. He has got 2 goals and 2 assists in the Premier League already this season. Without his goals and assists in the Premier League last season, we'd have been 16 points worse off.  I'm pretty sure we would have won a game by now if he had still been here.

Possible we would have, and im not writing his ability off. We may have lost some of the games he played in this season, also.

Im not sure you can say we are 16 points off last season without him, as someone else would have got some goals and some assists, it is unlikely we would have 0 points from those same fixtures.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Selling Ings was a “no brainer” according to a lot of fans although I accept we had little choice in the end. 
Talk of Ralph’s small squad last season makes me smile when I remember one of his early boasts was he liked to work with small squads. 
His myopia when it comes to the shortcomings of Redmond has convinced me he simply isn’t up to the job. A shame because I once believed he was the new Poch but he has himself to blame for some truly illogical team selections, stubbornness and questionable man management. My dear though is the Board have tied themselves too closely to his sails. 

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Selling Ings was a “no brainer” according to a lot of fans although I accept we had little choice in the end. 
Talk of Ralph’s small squad last season makes me smile when I remember one of his early boasts was he liked to work with small squads. 
His myopia when it comes to the shortcomings of Redmond has convinced me he simply isn’t up to the job. A shame because I once believed he was the new Poch but he has himself to blame for some truly illogical team selections, stubbornness and questionable man management. My dear though is the Board have tied themselves too closely to his sails. 

Who do you want to replace Ralph ?

 

[trousers]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Have you seen our record since the turn of the year?

Calendar year records are meaningless (or so we were told 9 months ago)

[Christophenburg]

Do I think Ralph will be sacked? No - it seems the club are all in.

Do I think he should go? Yeah probably - I don't think he's shown anything that gives me confidence he can turn things around unless something changes (such as a new assistant to challenge him). As much as I like the guy, this is a results business...

Are there other options? Yeah sure, obviously there are. I don't think it's a fan's job to suggest a replacement manager (which seems to be the standard challenge when you dare questions Ralph's ability), but there are options - Sanchez Flores tanked at Watford but has stats overall that aren't dissimilar to Poch's, nor are Javi Garcia's for that matter. Chris Wilder has had some success in the PL and has a Saints connection. Ranieri or Favre have impressive stats. Rudi Garcia has done great in France and Italy, maybe he'd like to give the Costa del Itchen a go? AVB always seems to be available and perpetually linked with us. Fonseca has great stats from Portugal and Italy, and even proved he can win on a rainy day with Shakhtar. Tedseco did the business from Schalke and Spartak, does he want to add another S to the list?

I'm not for a second saying we should go for any of those, nor that any of them would jump at the chance, but the idea that there are no available managers that are better then Ralph, considering the club's stats under him, is frankly ridiculous. And even if it wasn't, is sticking with Ralph really less of a gamble then replacing him?

[sambosa75]

58 minutes ago, Badger said:

Who do you want to replace Ralph ?

 

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

[Chris cooper]

7 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

I agree .. had a good break from football and would be fresh and would bring a new impetus..maybe could bring in some more chelsea loans to perm players. Did well at derby and Chelsea on a shoestring wen they had the embargo .. brought in some obvious talent at chelsea which didn’t work for him .. Older players at Chelsea got him gone cos he brought the youth through.. the likes of alonso and co knifed him right in the back .. I’d welcome lamps with open arms 

[the saint in winchester]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Selling Ings was a “no brainer” according to a lot of fans although I accept we had little choice in the end. 
Talk of Ralph’s small squad last season makes me smile when I remember one of his early boasts was he liked to work with small squads. 
His myopia when it comes to the shortcomings of Redmond has convinced me he simply isn’t up to the job. A shame because I once believed he was the new Poch but he has himself to blame for some truly illogical team selections, stubbornness and questionable man management. My underlying thought, however, is the Board have tied themselves too closely to his sails. 

The above pretty much sums up my reading of the situation too.

He now 'owns' some good tools but doesn't use them effectively - eg overuse of Redmond, underuse of KWP, poor team selection, baffling substitutions.

And I share your concern that we have given Ralph too much power. Can we let him go? On what terms? What would be the effect?

I'm also unsure who could replace him. We couldn't attract a top level manager right now. We'd be deciding between an aspiring championship manager or an overseas manager who would like to take his first steps in EPL management. Neither fill me with excitement. So I keep coming back to "better the devil the you know than the one you don't." I'm just hoping that we can get that first win soon and everything clicks into place.

[the saint in winchester]

Ok, I take above comments back re choice of manager.

Lampard I would be happy with. That comment about developing youth with wise heads around them would work well for us. And I'd be happy for the camera to rest on his missus too.

Welcome to Southampton, Frank.

[nta786]

Apparently Rudi Garcia is currently a free agent.

I think we were linked with him in 2016 (may even have been interviewed!?) until we got Puel in instead.

I'd love to get him in but unlike 2016 our stock has fallen so low that it may need a lot to tempt him in.

Still, it was always a huge surprise when we got Ralph in at the time given how high his stock was with leading Leipzig to 2nd + 6th in Bundesliga.

Otherwise, my opinion is that I'd give Ralph another 10 to 12 PL games...if we're winless any longer we'll have to pull the trigger at some point, but at same time much may depend on how teams below us are faring

[HarvSFC]

13 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

Serious suggestions only. Looking at Derby's current status, he has a similar effect on clubs as his uncle did. Finished 6th in the Championship with a team of Mount, Wilson, Tomori, Cole and many seasoned Championship players, who wouldn't have been cheap. They signed Waghorn for £5m under him...

Jumped at the chance to manage Chelsea straight away, who were jumping on the bandwagon of the former legend turned manager fad, and also because they couldn't attract anyone under the embargo. He did well in his first season, finishing fourth. But, the 12 defeats that season was still the joint highest amount of losses they've suffered in a season since 1998, and like Gerrard, Solskjaer and Rodgers, when it comes to Europe, they're found wanting and out of their depth. But, we won't have that problem.

The second season, was when he fell off. I get that they weren't all his signings, but Tuchel's showing the strengths of that squad now. There were also reports of him alienating players during his second season and the squad were turning against him. Rudiger, who is now Chelsea's second best defender behind Silva and Tomori, who's proving a success at AC Milan being two of the most heavily reported. This aligns with the way he was reported to be like as a player in the dressing room alongside John Terry, as the "bulldogs", getting manager's sacked and alienating the foreign group.

Ultimately, he's just a bit of a prick, and Jody Morris isn't too great either.

[aintforever]

41 minutes ago, sambosa75 said:

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

The bloke who made the European Champions look shite?

[LGTL]

He has been on borrowed time ever since Utd away last season. One 9-0 is a bit of a freak, two in two years is ridiculous and arguably he shouldn’t have survived it. His stubbornness will be his downfall eventually. 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

It really isnt that simple. Ings got 12 goals last season. Adams got 9 i think. Same Q to you as I just posted to John B:

So, would you keep Ralph then if we continue to lose? I mean, how long would you continue to back the manager?

You were talking about the team that went on the great run in 2020, would be interesting to see Ing’s stats for that period.

I would probably give Ralph until Nov/Dec, As it stands we are not in a relegation spot having had a very tricky start so it is too early to get rid, could do more harm than good.

[The Left Back]

I think I said on this thread last week that I'm behind the manager and one game isn't going to change that.  I've really appreciated the quality of dialogue on this thread since yesterday's poor performance and it has got me wondering if I'm being too loyal in feelings towards Ralph as our manager.  

I still can't help but liking him as a manager but the question marks over some of his decisions are valid and I don't have decent answers for them.  I end up defaulting to the belief that I trust his judgment, given his experience and skills and the fact he gets to work with the squad all week.  After poor performances and results it's hard to justify my belief.  

So if it were a supporter-owned club and we all had a vote I'd still be voting to keep him.  I think there is a natural knee-jerk reaction after days last yesterday and so I wouldn't  want us voting on him today, but then by the same token we shouldn't be voting after a good point at the champions.  The win stats for 2021 are pretty bleak and every time we have this debate they will be rightly trotted out until we can make them look better.  

I look at his record (on wikipedia so hope its accurate).  Comparing him to managers with a similar number of games under his belt, his win ratio is worse than Nigel Adkins and George Burley, but they were operating in lower divisions.  Strangely it is almost identical to Gordon Strachan's, and better than Dave Jones' and Ian Branfoot's (no shit Sherlock I hear you shout).  So I think. in the bigger picture, it is not now the time to sack him.

I like the question of when would I?  I think it would be if we are relegated, or in a league position where relegation was almost inevitable.  So probably not until March at the earliest.  I think as a club we are very invested in Ralph (perhaps too much as someone said) so replacing him is not straightforward and runs some short term risks, which I think we should only take either if we (a) are in a desperate relegation scrap (b) he's lost the dressing room or (c) we have a summer break to do it.

My only exception to this thinking was if the club had got someone very exciting lined up who could pick of project Ralph with minimum disruption.  Frank Lampard is the only name I've heard that fits the bill, and even with him there is a question mark for me about his commitment to us given how quickly he got out of Derby (although to be fair perhaps he saw the writing on the wall there).  I'd want assurances he is in for a minimum 3 years if I was hiring.

I've also seen questions in the last 24 hours about the quality of our players.  So I looked up the team we put out that took us to the top of the table (albeit briefly).  The starting 11 that night included McCarthy, Bednarek, KWP, JWP, Romeu, Djenepo, Walcott and Adams.  That night we also had S Armstrong and Stephens, both of whom I'd argue we missed badly yesterday.  The 11th player that night was Vesty, who was in the middle of his brief purple patch, and who I think we are pretty unanimous on we are not missing.  Redmond came on for 15 minutes and Long for 2.  So  I think it is too easy to write off yesterday's team, and our squad in general, in terms of capability.

 

[Ted Bates Statue]

12 minutes ago, aintforever said:

The bloke who made the European Champions look shite?

At first glance I thought that makes him sound pretty good, until I realised that Lampard was actually working for them at the time.

On the positive side for us, Hasenhuttl has also made Chelsea look shite on a number of occasions. Hopefully we can take points off them again.

[Streaky]

3 hours ago, John B said:

Give Ralph a rest 

 

The Players are clearly not good enough no wonder we are scoring goals

 

Adams and Armstrong must the weakest pair of strikers we have ever had in the Top Division 

 

Although in the 1990s they were not that good but at least we had MLT who I never though was an out and out striker

Whether there good enough or not its down to ralph to shape the squad and buy players. It's pretty much his team now so if they weren't good enough why did he buy them in the first place.

Buys perraud and drops him to put kwp out of posistion in a attempt to keep him happy, ridiculous he's had long enough. Dont get me started on his love for redmond still. Guy offers nothing and tella can't even get a look in. He's making so many glaring mistakes week in week out that everyone can see.

[Mr X]

Seems not just fans are concerned about our form, pundits saying we won't get enough goals between Adams and Armstrong (I know they always predict we will struggle) bit this time I think they are right... Those two aren't going to provide enough and we don't have that many players that can chip in with five or six goals either.  I fear the gamble on a championship striker might not pay off, broja looks fairly decent at times but don't think he can burden the responsibility.  I just feel RH has played everything in the book he knows and is a little devoid of ideas

Edited 27 September, 2021 by Mr X

[Dman]

1 hour ago, sambosa75 said:

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

There’s plenty out there, to be fair. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik

 

Favre (in talks with palace in the summer, wasn’t he??) would be my realistic ideal replacement. 

[The Left Back]

4 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

So I am confused with the line from you and TWar - 'changing for changes sake'.

Surely the change is absolutely required if it appears unlikely the incumbent isn't going to work out. I have a situation at work (a real one as it goes). Ive employed this person since 2015 and I have brought him with me to 3 successive firms I have joined. For the last year (again true) he hasn't been pulling his weight, results are all over the place. Now I need to act, as it is causing lots of issues. Im not changing for the sake of it, I need to act as the performance cant continue. Ive tried everything with him, he even admitted 2 months ago he thought he would have lost his job if elsewhere.

Now, I need to find a replacement before I can act, and I hope with my experience I can find a really suitable person to be better, but it is a risk and they may not be. But that doesn't mean it is changing for the sake of it, I simply have to act.

Now, I dont feel it is so different with Ralph - it isnt changing for the sake of it, if we carry on as we are we are going down. This isn't a knee jerk reaction to a few shit games, it has been nearly a whole calendar year.

We will find someone to take over, and they may work out or not. We could employ Klopp and it may not work, but the change would still have been necessary.

I am not sure I agree with your work analogy @Billy the Kiddthe main reason being that in the SFC case you are not the line manager.  Bear with me, I'm not trying to undermine you, it's just some thoughts.  Your employee, I'll call him Ian, sounds like he's done well in the previous two jobs (as you re-hired him) but not this time.  I am going to assume Ian's objectives were clear to him and you and that you worked closely enough to him to gauge whether he was performing and hitting his objectives.  I'll also assume Ian's. objectives weren't made known to the general public (it's a flourish not essential to my point).

Let's replace you with Semmens (or is it Crocker, doesn't really matter?), Ian with Ralph and jobs with seasons.  First things first, none of us know Ralph's objectives and we are not close enough to the workplace to be able to monitor performance against them.  We hear the public utterances but that's not the same.  So I'll have a guess they are (1) keep us up (2) have a crack at the cups and (3) help us build a sustainable club for the future.  There might be some additional second-order objectives about finishing as high as possible and adhering to the brand/being professional, and building a healthy culture at Staplewood. And possibly something about give us some excitement from time to time and make sure we recover well from adversity (I'm getting carried away now).

My point is that in Ralph's three seasons it's possible he has delivered his objectives every time and that, based on 6 games, there is nothing to suggest he won't deliver on them again this year.  I can't know if any of this is the case, but then again I don't think any of us can.  We may not like the imagined objectives, and we may not enjoy the rollercoaster involved in his delivery of them, but we can't assume "he hasn't been pulling his weight"  or "performance can't continue". We cant even assume 'results are all over the place' as we don't know what he is being measured against.  

Not sure this is adding much to the overall thread who knows?

[hackedoff]

Sacking Ralph will mean  Gao will have to spend some money. Keeping Ralph will mean ultimately Gao will lose money,big time.

You move Mr Gao.

[goodymatt]

Interesting thread on Ralph’s managerial stats since he joined us.

[FarehamSaintJames]

2 hours ago, sambosa75 said:

Not a great deal out there but my choice would be Lampard.

I’d go with this.

RH no longer fills me with confidence, a new manager, a kick up the arse, and a bit of pulling power with FL would go further I think.

[Kenilworthy]

Maybe there is a middle way, which is to insist to Ralph that he revamps his coaching staff and gets an assistant worthy of the name? Like Sammy Lee for example who already knows the club.

[Billy the Kidd]

56 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

I am not sure I agree with your work analogy @Billy the Kiddthe main reason being that in the SFC case you are not the line manager.  Bear with me, I'm not trying to undermine you, it's just some thoughts.  Your employee, I'll call him Ian, sounds like he's done well in the previous two jobs (as you re-hired him) but not this time.  I am going to assume Ian's objectives were clear to him and you and that you worked closely enough to him to gauge whether he was performing and hitting his objectives.  I'll also assume Ian's. objectives weren't made known to the general public (it's a flourish not essential to my point).

Let's replace you with Semmens (or is it Crocker, doesn't really matter?), Ian with Ralph and jobs with seasons.  First things first, none of us know Ralph's objectives and we are not close enough to the workplace to be able to monitor performance against them.  We hear the public utterances but that's not the same.  So I'll have a guess they are (1) keep us up (2) have a crack at the cups and (3) help us build a sustainable club for the future.  There might be some additional second-order objectives about finishing as high as possible and adhering to the brand/being professional, and building a healthy culture at Staplewood. And possibly something about give us some excitement from time to time and make sure we recover well from adversity (I'm getting carried away now).

My point is that in Ralph's three seasons it's possible he has delivered his objectives every time and that, based on 6 games, there is nothing to suggest he won't deliver on them again this year.  I can't know if any of this is the case, but then again I don't think any of us can.  We may not like the imagined objectives, and we may not enjoy the rollercoaster involved in his delivery of them, but we can't assume "he hasn't been pulling his weight"  or "performance can't continue". We cant even assume 'results are all over the place' as we don't know what he is being measured against.  

Not sure this is adding much to the overall thread who knows?

Thanks for the response.

Ralph is technically the line manager of the players, so similar to my situation. My employee had started his tenure well for6 months, then performance fell off a cliff.

We dont know what Ralphs objectives are, but they sure as hell aren’t the run we’ve been on in 2021. I’m not saying he hasn’t pulled his weight, but something is clearly wrong with Ralph and the team performances - he is responsible for those. 

Ralph also is presiding over our worst ever run of results over a sustained period. The fact this season is only 6 games old is irrelevant, it would only be relevant if we had managed a couple of wins in our first 6 games. We haven’t, and our form for results has continued this season.

We can assume performance cant continue, as if it does we will be relegated if it does continue. We can assume result are all over the place, as his objective is to get as many points as possible, and wins - it simply couldn’t be he has objectives to lose or draw, or to get as few points as possible.

[Mr X]

You would think the next three games will decide RH's future.  I'm hoping they were prepared to forgive him the total second half collapse of last season as we had such a good start but have told RH they need results to drastically improve, it's a big hope though!

Chelsea - away - nil pois

Leeds - Home - nil pois 

Burnley - Home - 1 point 

[Charlie Wayman]

We can be sure that Ralph will not give up his job voluntarily as witnessed by his press conferences. He loves being part of the "best League in the World" and genuinely enjoys rubbing shoulders with the great and the good managers and challenging them in a battle of wits.

If we want him out it's the boot from above and frankly I doubt Semmens has it in him to make that decision.

[Pamplemousse]

https://www.soccerstats.com/table.asp?league=england&tid=10

 

Interesting table here. If you look at the played opponents column, it shows that we have had the hardest start in the league by some distance, and that after Chelsea, it gets a bit easier for us.

[cambsaint]

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

[egg]

23 minutes ago, cambsaint said:

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

A sensible and rational person does not stick with a falling manager. He's been abysmal for a whole calendar year, so those calling for his head are not being unreasonable. 

[Minsk]

25 minutes ago, egg said:

A sensible and rational person does not stick with a falling manager. He's been abysmal for a whole calendar year, so those calling for his head are not being unreasonable. 

He was awesome for a whole calendar year before that. There are well documented reasons for our failings post January. You don't agree with them, others do.

We were 6 unbeaten before Wolves. I don't call that abysmal. You obviously do.

Almost everyone was saying what a horrid start to the season we had, even before a ball was kicked. We have lost 2 matches thus far, the latter despite being the better team (18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3; far more completed passes; etc) and we only lost because Bednarek let himself get bullied whilst Salisu slipped on his arse. I am certain had Jack Stephens been available and partnered Mo Jiminez wouldn't have got that goal. Still, I'm sure it is Ralph's fault that Stephens is injured, Salisu slipped on his arse and Bednarek got bullied. From the same 6 matches last season we lost 5. Therefore, losing 2 is an improvement. A sensible and rational person sticks with a manager who is improving his team's performances.

[Minsk]

4 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Thanks for the response.

Ralph is technically the line manager of the players, so similar to my situation. My employee had started his tenure well for6 months, then performance fell off a cliff.

We dont know what Ralphs objectives are, but they sure as hell aren’t the run we’ve been on in 2021. I’m not saying he hasn’t pulled his weight, but something is clearly wrong with Ralph and the team performances - he is responsible for those. 

Ralph also is presiding over our worst ever run of results over a sustained period. The fact this season is only 6 games old is irrelevant, it would only be relevant if we had managed a couple of wins in our first 6 games. We haven’t, and our form for results has continued this season.

We can assume performance cant continue, as if it does we will be relegated if it does continue. We can assume result are all over the place, as his objective is to get as many points as possible, and wins - it simply couldn’t be he has objectives to lose or draw, or to get as few points as possible.

Would you have felt better had we lost against Utd, City and West Ham but beat Wolves?

Would have given us the same points, but probably worse GD.

[woodsaint1]

Lets face it, we arent sacking Ralph anytime soon.

1. We cant afford to  

2. We've went all in with handing him free reign on decision making right across the senior and youth ranks (playbook etc). 

3. Gao has literally no interest who is in charge and will not intervene, even if that threatens us with relegation

Ralph would need to become disillusioned with the club and the financial constraints placed upon it, or walk after we get relegated. 

Sadly the current sutuation is another consequence of having an invisible owner. With our 2021 record, Ralph would have been sacked long ago if we had a serious owner. Until that changes we'll not be able to distance ourselves from the trapdoor and its only a matter of when we fall through it

[trousers]

6 hours ago, goodymatt said:

Interesting thread on Ralph’s managerial stats since he joined us.

Sounds good, but I don't really see understand this stats malarkey. Can someone distill this into layman's terms?

 

[HnycS]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Sounds good, but I don't really see understand this stats malarkey. Can someone distill this into layman's terms?

 

Sure. If you look at points earned on average per game, Hasenhüttl is our third best manager since Saints have been back in the PL. If you look at Hasenhüttl's overall record and split it into equal quarters which gives approximately the same number of games as the previous three incumbents, for 3/4 of the time he has been in charge he has exceeded all three, in his last quarter he is worse than all except Hughes. Which mostly tells us how bad Hughes was.

Net net when things are looking really bad always remember how bad they were when Mark Hughes was in charge! Maybe there is a small lesson from this in that a rapidly chosen crisis replacement may actually make things worse, impossible as that seemed when Pellegrino was in charge.

Edited 28 September, 2021 by HnycS

[HnycS]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Sounds good, but I don't really see understand this stats malarkey. Can someone distill this into layman's terms?

 

Or graphically for the first 75% of his tenure Ralph was;

 

In the last 25%

[Chris cooper]

8 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

We can be sure that Ralph will not give up his job voluntarily as witnessed by his press conferences. He loves being part of the "best League in the World" and genuinely enjoys rubbing shoulders with the great and the good managers and challenging them in a battle of wits.

If we want him out it's the boot from above and frankly I doubt Semmens has it in him to make that decision.

Or it’s the 6m a year perhaps 🤔 no sane person is going to walk from that .. he can select who he likes each week knowing the safety net fact is saints cant afford to sack him 

[Billy the Kidd]

7 hours ago, Minsk said:

Would you have felt better had we lost against Utd, City and West Ham but beat Wolves?

Would have given us the same points, but probably worse GD.

Not at all, and I’m not saying Ralph should go immediately. I’ve posed the Q of how long should he have, as we can’t stay winless forever without taking action. 

Although we do need to get into the habit of beating the teams around us as that will largely tell us our true position and not the games against the top sides. Wolves were around us and they are the ones we don’t want talking there points of us.

My view was 7-10 games, am interested in what others thought. I also think the carry over off last season’s form is relevant as not winning games now isn’ta blip, it is a rut and teams in this type of run find it hard to get out of it. This is my major concern, and I have concerns if Ralph can get us out of it. 

The 2-4 games post Chelsea will be key for me, if we don’t get a win in either of the first two after, I think Ralph will be in huge trouble. I’d love for him to beat Chelsea or the team after them and go on a run, but I think the club and fans be have stuck by him and I can see that changing. 

Are you saying you will stick with Ralph no matter what or is there a point where you will have had enough?

You posted to Egg that a sensible, rational person sticks with a manager who is improving performance and I don’t disagree, but you can’t do a like for like v teams last season and say that is a direct improvement, when considering our form over a long period. 

We couldn’t beat Everton away, whilst I acknowledge a historically hard place for us when being 1 up. We couldn’t beat a terrible Newcastle team for the 2nd year running, Utd were poor, although we were good that day and we were great v City. The fact is we really ought to have for one or two victories in that and the fact we er didn’t is concerning.

 Like I said previously, I think the next free games will tell us if he will stay, I hope he does as it means we are winning games, but surely you can accept people have concerns?

Edited 28 September, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Chris cooper]

On 26/09/2021 at 21:03, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

Take a long look at this and it gets cringier every time you look at it .. he’s even worse around pep .. like a love sick teenager… embarrassing!!

[Billy the Kidd]

7 hours ago, cambsaint said:

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

This team is pretty much Ralph’s team, are you aware of that? He has been here three years, and the club did a great job moving on most of the deadwood in the summer,

I’m not sure how could any fans know if a possible manager would be prepared to come.

That is the job of the club to convince them, which follow the last part of your sentence - affordability. Ralph is very well paid, c. £6m per annum, I think we could afford manager which could help attracting someone. 

[egg]

6 hours ago, Minsk said:

He was awesome for a whole calendar year before that. There are well documented reasons for our failings post January. You don't agree with them, others do.

We were 6 unbeaten before Wolves. I don't call that abysmal. You obviously do.

Almost everyone was saying what a horrid start to the season we had, even before a ball was kicked. We have lost 2 matches thus far, the latter despite being the better team (18 shots to their 5; 6 on target to their 3; far more completed passes; etc) and we only lost because Bednarek let himself get bullied whilst Salisu slipped on his arse. I am certain had Jack Stephens been available and partnered Mo Jiminez wouldn't have got that goal. Still, I'm sure it is Ralph's fault that Stephens is injured, Salisu slipped on his arse and Bednarek got bullied. From the same 6 matches last season we lost 5. Therefore, losing 2 is an improvement. A sensible and rational person sticks with a manager who is improving his team's performances.

I'm not calling for his head quite yet, I'm saying that it's not unreasonable if others do so. For me he has credit for our start to the season and Man City. I'm putting Sunday down to a bad day at the office, and some bad luck. Personally, I think he got the team selection right, although Long on rather than Tella was odd. 

On a side note, people who blame Bednarek for Sundays game are missing the fact that the golden boy got caught up field meaning Bednarek got pulled over. Sure, he was weak, and a better CB would have dealt with that situation, but Tino left us a man short. 

[Toussaint]

8 hours ago, cambsaint said:

A sensible and rational person only changes a manager is there is a better one readily available.

I'm not and never have been a great believer in RH's tactical ability.

However we drew against three very good teams, two of which can pay ten times as much for a player with no problem

R H has to work with what he's got and can afford, and it looks as if for the foreseeable future our main ambition is avoiding relegation

The negativity on this board and the desire to blame players for mistakes is beyond belief at times.

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable?

A better manager? You wouldn’t have to be that exceptional a manager to play the best players in their best positions,  and make the tight tactical and personnel changes when required. He massively over complicates things.

[CB Fry]

8 hours ago, cambsaint said:

Could any of the armchair critics find a better manager who's prepared to come and is affordable

I always find this line of argument incredibly tiresome. It's basically exactly the same argument you could use to not have sacked Mark Hughes in the first place.

Hasenhuttl wasn't appointed following some poll of the fanbase.

Edited 28 September, 2021 by CB Fry

[Bob76]

25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

A better manager? You wouldn’t have to be that exceptional a manager to play the best players in their best positions,  and make the tight tactical and personnel changes when required. He massively over complicates things.

Exactly this, it is his inability to play to the players strengths and continue to try and shoehorn players into his preferred formation that gets to me. On Sunday our entire left side were cutting back on as they were so right footed.

A good manager would look at what was available and play to what he had.

 

[egg]

14 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I always find this line of argument incredibly tiresome. It's basically exactly the same argument you could use to not have sacked Mark Hughes in the first place.

Hasenhuttl wasn't appointed following some poll of the fanbase.

Yep. It's like staying in an unhappy relationship because you've yet to line up a replacement. A mindset I don't get. 

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Bob76 said:

Exactly this, it is his inability to play to the players strengths and continue to try and shoehorn players into his preferred formation that gets to me. On Sunday our entire left side were cutting back on as they were so right footed.

A good manager would look at what was available and play to what he had.

 

Perraud isn't great. Ralph probably expected Traore to play, and he'd have annihilated Perraud. His choice was Perraud or an out of position KWP.

When you're between a rock or a hard place, you'll get whacked whichever way you turn. 

[Bob76]

Sorry don't agree with that at all I think that Perraud has been ok and is better going forward than KWP on the left. It is also a bit of a thing for Ralph to play players out of position. A trait that I don't think helps at all. Also playing KWP with Redmond in front of him nullified that whole side as an attacking threat.

Edited 28 September, 2021 by Bob76