Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Matthew Le God]

8 hours ago, Mr X said:

Some papers saying Eddie Howe has turnt down Celtic as will be offered saints job next season if Ralph fails to get off to a good start! Nonsense or an element of truth to it? 

It isn't 'some papers'... it was a Football Insider story by clickbait merchant Wayne Veysey. He barely counts as a journalist. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I for one wouldn’t lose any sleep if this happened. Ralph only has one string to his bow and once he has been found out then he struggles to find another gear. Just don’t see us progressing any further with him in charge. A real shame because he has personality, is popular with the fans and cares about the club from top to bottom. 

[Far que]

The tribe has spoken Ralph 

[sadoldgit]

Ralph is clearly a quality manager and I’m pleased that the club are standing by him. Whether he had what it takes to bring the club on within the obvious financial constraints remains to be seen, but he has earned the right to try after his work here in 2020. As for Howe or the next manager, they will have exactly the same problems here as Ralph, so until we get some investment any manager faces a tough job.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

2 hours ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I for one wouldn’t lose any sleep if this happened. Ralph only has one string to his bow and once he has been found out then he struggles to find another gear. Just don’t see us progressing any further with him in charge. A real shame because he has personality, is popular with the fans and cares about the club from top to bottom. 

 

Haven't you also exactly described Eddie Howe's tenure at Bournemouth in the above as well?

[Charlie Wayman]

11 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Ralph is clearly a quality manager and I’m pleased that the club are standing by him. Whether he had what it takes to bring the club on within the obvious financial constraints remains to be seen, but he has earned the right to try after his work here in 2020. As for Howe or the next manager, they will have exactly the same problems here as Ralph, so until we get some investment any manager faces a tough job.

Oh really? At what level' though. He's not doing very well in the PL is he.

The same old chestnut from you worshippers, poor players and a lack of investment hampering his genius. You couldn't make it up.

Grasp the nettle old chap he's been crap this season and even his own imports Djenepo & Diallo have not really turned into world beaters under his tutelage.

[Matthew Le God]

10 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Oh really? At what level' though. He's not doing very well in the PL is he.

The same old chestnut from you worshippers, poor players and a lack of investment hampering his genius. You couldn't make it up.

Grasp the nettle old chap he's been crap this season and even his own imports Djenepo & Diallo have not really turned into world beaters under his tutelage.

The Bundesliga is a comparable quality to the Premier League and he came 2nd and 6th with a newly promoted club. Plus have you already forgotten how well we did during 2020 calender year? That showed for a substantial period he was able to get us winning and playing good football in the PL. Sure 2021 has not been good, but let's not rewrite the past.

Edited 6 June, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[HarvSFC]

Given there's still some question marks over Ralph, there's the exact same over Howe... and more. 

He can't organise a defence, his Bournemouth side played the exact same way every week too, never deviating despite it being obvious they were going the wrong way, his side would start the season well, but also always dropped off massively. The failing to settle up north is the line used for his Burnley tenure, but we don't know if that is just on of those "mutual agreement" lines to save face. They lost five of their first 10 fixtures in 2012-13 before he was gone, picking up three wins. Dyche got them promoted the next season. Finally, Howe performed a lot worse than Ralph did in the Premier League (he actually got relegated) with a far bigger budget and greater resources.

I personally am glad the story's from Football Insider.

[Billy the Kidd]

31 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Oh really? At what level' though. He's not doing very well in the PL is he.

The same old chestnut from you worshippers, poor players and a lack of investment hampering his genius. You couldn't make it up.

Grasp the nettle old chap he's been crap this season and even his own imports Djenepo & Diallo have not really turned into world beaters under his tutelage.

Keep up the Comedy Gold old chap 😂

[Fitzhugh Fella]

46 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

The Bundesliga is a comparable quality to the Premier League and he came 2nd and 6th with a newly promoted club. Plus have you already forgotten how well we did during 2020 calender year? That showed for a substantial period he was able to get us winning and playing good football in the PL. Sure 2021 has not been good, but let's not rewrite the past.

And then he got found out by by the more tactically astute. Once it is known how a magician does his tricks he becomes a lot less impressive. 

[Matthew Le God]

1 minute ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

And then he got found out by by the more tactically astute. Once it is known how a magician does his tricks he becomes a lot less impressive. 

Easier to perform magic when your key doves aren't injured.

[Pamplemousse]

Anyone who wants Howe over Ralph needs to give their head a good wobble.

[TWar]

1 hour ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Oh really? At what level' though. He's not doing very well in the PL is he.

The same old chestnut from you worshippers, poor players and a lack of investment hampering his genius. You couldn't make it up.

Grasp the nettle old chap he's been crap this season and even his own imports Djenepo & Diallo have not really turned into world beaters under his tutelage.

Diallo is fine, he's still getting up to speed. Djenepo has not kicked on how we had hoped but it's disengenuous to single out those two and not mention, for example, KWP who was one of our players of the season, or Adams who has come along well, or Salisu who looks quality. 

[Smirking_Saint]

4 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

Anyone who wants Howe over Ralph needs to give their head a good wobble.

Agreed

Ive never seen the overall clamour for Eddie Howe really, yes he punched above his weight for a time at Bournemouth, but only really when they had a high level of investment. His playing style, very much like Ralphs, was high risk high reward and was eventually found out.

Transfer speaking his overall record wasn't great, worth remembering, like Ralphs and managers before him, that isn't solely down to the manager, but also the scouting team.

A lot of the current agenda against Ralph feels heavily recency biased. If we flip this season on its head then everyone would be talking about what a good recovery we had. Of course, the overall drop if form is indeed worrying. I am very much now in the sceptical camp, but Ive see enough to know Ralph knows what he is doing to be the best bet moving forward

It isn't like we are in a position to fund a manager with a higher pedigree, who would also like a significant spend. So really what is this alternative to Ralph people want ? It certainly isn't Howe for me either

[Lord Duckhunter]

Eddie Howe did an incredible job at Boscombe, pre the Russian money. His record stands up against Nigel Adkins one, any day of the week. His record in the premier league wasn’t too shabby prior to relegation, certainly his first 2 were on a par with Ralph’s . Don’t particularly like the guy, wouldn’t really be my choice, but people slagging him off are rewriting history. 

[Smirking_Saint]

27 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Eddie Howe did an incredible job at Boscombe, pre the Russian money. His record stands up against Nigel Adkins one, any day of the week. His record in the premier league wasn’t too shabby prior to relegation, certainly his first 2 were on a par with Ralph’s . Don’t particularly like the guy, wouldn’t really be my choice, but people slagging him off are rewriting history. 

FWIW I wouldn't want Adkins back either

[TWar]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Eddie Howe did an incredible job at Boscombe, pre the Russian money. His record stands up against Nigel Adkins one, any day of the week. His record in the premier league wasn’t too shabby prior to relegation, certainly his first 2 were on a par with Ralph’s . Don’t particularly like the guy, wouldn’t really be my choice, but people slagging him off are rewriting history. 

In his first two prem seasons he had a win rate of 29% and 31%. His overall prem winrate was 29.4%.

Ralph had win rates of 39% and 31% with an average of 35.5%. Ralphs worst season with saints had the same winrate as Howes best with Bournemouth. Bournemouth also had a much higher net spend than us. Howe was an average manager who got relegated, it is not us that are rewriting history. He did well to get promoted but being a good championship level manager doesn't make him quality in the big leagues.

[Lord Duckhunter]

10 minutes ago, TWar said:

In his first two prem seasons he had a win rate of 29% and 31%. His overall prem winrate was 29.4%.

Ralph had win rates of 39% and 31% with an average of 35.5%. Ralphs worst season with saints had the same winrate as Howes best with Bournemouth. Bournemouth also had a much higher net spend than us. Howe was an average manager who got relegated, it is not us that are rewriting history. He did well to get promoted but being a good championship level manager doesn't make him quality in the big leagues.

Unlike Ralph he’s finished in the top 10. 
 

Id say 16th and 9th was on par with 11th & 15th, no matter what your pony baseball statistics say.

 

I’d imagine most neutrals would put them in the same bag, the only reason you don’t is your membership of the cult. 
 

He did a tremendous job outside of the top flight and an ok one in it. Ralph has done an ok job. Nothing more. 

[TWar]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Unlike Ralph he’s finished in the top 10. 
 

Id say 16th and 9th was on par with 11th & 15th, no matter what your pony baseball statistics say.

 

I’d imagine most neutrals would put them in the same bag, the only reason you don’t is your membership of the cult. 
 

He did a tremendous job outside of the top flight and an ok one in it. Ralph has done an ok job. Nothing more. 

One of them got relegated.

If you think "number of wins per season" is a baseball statistic I don't know what to tell you. Counting number of wins is about as simple as it comes. Sounds to me like you are the one with an agenda, pining for someone who finished 12th or lower five out of their six seasons and getting relegated in the process.

Edited 6 June, 2021 by TWar

[trousers]

30 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

membership of the cult. 

#moist

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 hours ago, TWar said:

One of them got relegated.

If you think "number of wins per season" is a baseball statistic I don't know what to tell you. Counting number of wins is about as simple as it comes. Sounds to me like you are the one with an agenda, pining for someone who finished 12th or lower five out of their six seasons and getting relegated in the process.

Hardly “pining” when I’ve already said I don’t particularly want him managing us. People slagging him off are talking pony, his record is decent, as decent as Ralph’s. And yes he did get relegated, after a few seasons. The  way Ralph’s headed we probably will too. 
 

The simplest stat is where you finish in the league. That’s always been the measure of a manager. Otherwise you end up with the ridiculous stat proving that Liverpool’s side that finished runners up had  a better record than Arsenals invincibles. They had more wins see, only a plank would claim that they had a better record. 
 

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[SKD]

20 hours ago, Pamplemousse said:

Anyone who wants Howe over Ralph needs to give their head a good wobble.

I mean I don’t really want Howe but at this moment in time, you could argue that anyone would do a better job than Ralph second half of the season. 
 

Perhaps it’s Ralph that needs to give their head a good wobble. 

[sadoldgit]

23 hours ago, Charlie Wayman said:

Oh really? At what level' though. He's not doing very well in the PL is he.

The same old chestnut from you worshippers, poor players and a lack of investment hampering his genius. You couldn't make it up.

Grasp the nettle old chap he's been crap this season and even his own imports Djenepo & Diallo have not really turned into world beaters under his tutelage.

Nobody is “worshipping” Ralph so stop using silly language. As far as I can see, the comments about both Ralph and Howe have been realistic. When Ralph leaves I think we all want him replaced with a decent manager, not a lesser one. Ralph’s record is better than Howe’s. That has nothing to do with “worship” or being in a “cult” and everything to do with applying common sense.

[Charlie Wayman]

23 hours ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Keep up the Comedy Gold old chap 😂

The Comedy Gold is watching Ralph's team play the same old way every week with the same old outcomes. Face up to it, he's been found out!

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Charlie Wayman

[Saint_lambden]

Well it's common knowledge that Howe went for the job when we sacked Pardew so there's clearly interest there but I'd like to think we'd be setting our sights higher than him should Ralph go early next season (whether it's realistic for us to or not is another matter). 

[sadoldgit]

Perhaps if the club replaced some mangled pigeons with some graceful doves we would see a bit more magic?

[Billy the Kidd]

44 minutes ago, Charlie Wayman said:

The Comedy Gold is watching Ralph's team play the same old way every week with the same old outcomes. Face up to it, he's been found out!

Well, we will see during the first half of next season.

[the saint in winchester]

The Club is fully invested in Ralph, he has total control on the playing side, style etc. So I can't envisage ANY scenario where the Club dismiss Ralph. None.

I CAN envisage a scenario where Ralph has just had enough - not backed in the transfer market, trying to get those 'mangled pigeons' to perform better when they have just lost interest. At that point, I think Ralph will walk away, whether he has another job to go to or not.

When that will happen I don't know, and Howe may be waiting well into next season or the season after.

[SFC Forever]

Please never ever let me see that Howe has become our manager. 

[Mr X]

Next season will be the real season to judge Ralph will he be able to recapture our early form from this season proving that it wasn't just a one off period where we got extremely lucky or will we keep playing the latter style of losing 90% of our games and generally not turning up.  It will decide his and our future ultimately

Edited 7 June, 2021 by Mr X

[Dellman]

If we can't back him in the summer market, i wouldn't blame him for walking because he will be blamed if things don't improve.

[Mr X]

Hypothetically if Ralph gets in four or five signings of his own choice & we still fail to win a game in our first ten games..... Who is to blame?.... Players? Manager? The owner? The fans?...... Lady Luck?

[The Kraken]

Les Reed.

[Turkish]

Eric Black

[TWar]

21 minutes ago, Mr X said:

Hypothetically if Ralph gets in four or five signings of his own choice & we still fail to win a game in our first ten games..... Who is to blame?.... Players? Manager? The owner? The fans?...... Lady Luck?

Depend on the situation. If we don't win a single one for our first 10 games then it would have to be the managers fault, barring extenuating circumstances. Obviously if we sign those players super late, we have a tricky opening run, and we lose some key players to injury in the summer then maybe we could see past it, if we were playing well and there were a number of draws.

[JRM]

On 06/06/2021 at 07:50, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I for one wouldn’t lose any sleep if this happened. Ralph only has one string to his bow and once he has been found out then he struggles to find another gear. Just don’t see us progressing any further with him in charge. A real shame because he has personality, is popular with the fans and cares about the club from top to bottom. 

Sounds like Ralph could do with a proper team around him to help add some ideas 

[TWar]

Reposting this here as it is the correct thread for it, rather than the Perraud thread:

For the record, since this "Ralph plays in one way, he never used a 3 atb" thing seems to be gathering steam, here are the average positions of the players in our last two matches, Fulham and Leeds (discluding west ham as it wasn't available)

You can very clearly see that Vestergaard is playing at the base of a back three with Salisu level with Bednarek/Stephens. Redmond/Djenepo are clearly playing wide in the wingback roles and not in the very narrow "10 position" they normally occupy, playing at a very similar level to KWP. Below are two games from the beginning of the season for comparison.

These two are earlier in the season against Fulham and West Ham. You can clearly see the attacking mid much more central, an obvious back two, and Bertrand much higher up.

[Smirking_Saint]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

Reposting this here as it is the correct thread for it, rather than the Perraud thread:

For the record, since this "Ralph plays in one way, he never used a 3 atb" thing seems to be gathering steam, here are the average positions of the players in our last two matches, Fulham and Leeds (discluding west ham as it wasn't available)

You can very clearly see that Vestergaard is playing at the base of a back three with Salisu level with Bednarek/Stephens. Redmond/Djenepo are clearly playing wide in the wingback roles and not in the very narrow "10 position" they normally occupy, playing at a very similar level to KWP. Below are two games from the beginning of the season for comparison.

These two are earlier in the season against Fulham and West Ham. You can clearly see the attacking mid much more central, an obvious back two, and Bertrand much higher up.

There is zero point taking these snapshots and trying to decipher how we've set up, as tactics are transitional. I expect I can find pass maps that show us set in a 4222 out of possession. For instance, during Koemans time we set up in a 4231 yet in possession pushed into a 3 atb form as one of the DMs dropped back to allow the FBs to push forward... this is just transitionary

This isn't just symptomatic of us, it will be exactly the same with any side.

[TWar]

Just now, Smirking_Saint said:

There is zero point taking these snapshots and trying to decipher how we've set up, as tactics are transitional. I expect I can find pass maps that show us set in a 4222 out of possession. For instance, during Koemans time we set up in a 4231 yet in possession pushed into a 3 atb form as one of the DMs dropped back to allow the FBs to push forward... this is just transitionary

This isn't just symptomatic of us, it will be exactly the same with any side.

Well these are average positions throughout the game rather than a snapshot. I was just trying to show that clearly we have a different average shape when we lined up with three CBs and Redmond as a wingback than when we had 2 CBs. If you looked through all the games with Bertrand in the side I doubt you'd see any which exhibited that average shape.

[Smirking_Saint]

Just now, TWar said:

Well these are average positions throughout the game rather than a snapshot. I was just trying to show that clearly we have a different average shape when we lined up with three CBs and Redmond as a wingback than when we had 2 CBs. If you looked through all the games with Bertrand in the side I doubt you'd see any which exhibited that average shape.

I think towards the end of the season he started to utilise Bertrand more of a defensive FB or 3rd CB and eventually moved to using Salisu or Stephens at LB that created an unorthodox 3 atb when in possession.

It likely shows that he had less and less faith in his defensive unit as the season progressed to be honest, but I would imagine we will move back to the more rigid 4222 in both transitions when he has his preferred midfield pairing and a left back that he can rely on to carry out both sides of the game

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

Well these are average positions throughout the game rather than a snapshot. I was just trying to show that clearly we have a different average shape when we lined up with three CBs and Redmond as a wingback than when we had 2 CBs. If you looked through all the games with Bertrand in the side I doubt you'd see any which exhibited that average shape.

Obviously. It's already been explained very well by Smirks as to why that was, no amount of diagrams is going to change that.

[TWar]

21 minutes ago, Smirking_Saint said:

I think towards the end of the season he started to utilise Bertrand more of a defensive FB or 3rd CB and eventually moved to using Salisu or Stephens at LB that created an unorthodox 3 atb when in possession.

It likely shows that he had less and less faith in his defensive unit as the season progressed to be honest, but I would imagine we will move back to the more rigid 4222 in both transitions when he has his preferred midfield pairing and a left back that he can rely on to carry out both sides of the game

I think Bertrand always played pretty high tbh. We did have JWP sitting deeper I guess so you could say that constituted a back 3. 

This was in Bertrands second to last game for us (our 3-2 win to Burnley, embarrassing 3-0 loss to West Brom is not available)

Still very much a 4atb though compared to the post Bertrand formation.

Edited 9 June, 2021 by TWar

[Snopper]

2 hours ago, Mr X said:

Hypothetically if Ralph gets in four or five signings of his own choice & we still fail to win a game in our first ten games..... Who is to blame?.... Players? Manager? The owner? The fans?...... Lady Luck?

Redmond obviously

[Antrimsaint]

On 06/06/2021 at 07:50, Fitzhugh Fella said:

I for one wouldn’t lose any sleep if this happened. Ralph only has one string to his bow and once he has been found out then he struggles to find another gear. Just don’t see us progressing any further with him in charge. A real shame because he has personality, is popular with the fans and cares about the club from top to bottom. 

But what a string! When it works we can compete. I can see no other way a club of our size can compete. It’s certainly not through transfers and the academy isn’t pulling up strings.

[Turkish]

this is just bizarre

[Lee On Solent Saint]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

this is just bizarre

Is this is true, it's fuckin mental

[egg]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

this is just bizarre

Yep. I thought he did it last season when we were safe to give them both "trials" and/or be in the shop window. That made sense. Doing it next season is just nuts. Decent managers know their best players and play them. 

[ErwinK1961]

4 hours ago, Turkish said:

this is just bizarre

If that’s true, then he deserves to be sacked. Ludicrous.

 

[Turkish]

8 minutes ago, egg said:

Yep. I thought he did it last season when we were safe to give them both "trials" and/or be in the shop window. That made sense. Doing it next season is just nuts. Decent managers know their best players and play them. 

That what I thought, give them both a bit of game time to decide which one to keep and which one to flog. To continue with it is ludicrous. 

[Disco Stu]

I'm trying to get behind Ralph but if we're rotating between Forster and Mccarthy again next season he needs to go.