Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Mr X]

9 minutes ago, simo said:

Punt on the St Johnstone manager anyone ?

no from me It's a huge step up from scottish league & no prior experience of premier league... not that RH had any but he did have german league which is higher quality than scotland..... not that it has helped much! .... that said could Calumn Davidson do any worse?

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

Ralph has been here two & half years basically and still doesn't have a clue what his best team is! still doesn't have a clue about tactical substitutions (the right player at the right time) still doesn't have a clue how to install any kind of grit & mental strength in players & has overseen our worst ever defeat not just once but twice plus numerous other thrash ins (3-0 plus) with the highest number of goals we've ever conceded in the premier league, losing 16 out of the last 20 games..... let that sink in  

And he also made a right cock of himself after beating Liverpool. 

Edited 24 May, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Mr X]

6 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

And he also made a right cock of himself after beating Liverpool. 

I do respect his obvious passion but it was a bit cringe have to admit, just showed that we are weak & beating liverpool once was like winning the league for us! 

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, trousers said:

Clutching at straws for some positives, who was the last Saints manager to secure premier league safety by 4th January (matchday 17)?

We had not secured safety by 4th Jan, as our subsequent form very nearly proved. Hindsight shows that we had accumulated enough points, but who expected at the start of the season that 29 points would keep a team up ?

[Sheaf Saint]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

We had not secured safety by 4th Jan, as our subsequent form very nearly proved. Hindsight shows that we had accumulated enough points, but who expected at the start of the season that 29 points would keep a team up ?

It wouldn't have done, because it would have meant us losing to Fulham, who would then have finished on 31 points instead of 28.

 

[Norm]

3 hours ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

The majority of this squad managed to be the 5th best prem team over the 2020 calendar year. Early season form was at a level equal to our best year under Koeman. We may have been overachieving during that time (a good part of which was probably down to Ings great form last season) but the players have shown they are capable at least of getting results.

I'll say the same as I did earlier in the season - we have (mostly) the same players, playing roughly the same tactics with the same manager and we've gone from one of the best teams form wise to one of the absolute worst in less than 12 months. Injuries have played some part but to me such a big drop in form suggests that the tactics are no longer effective and need changing, but people seem to be resistant to this idea and they don't want to admit that Ralph may have got it wrong. For them the answer seems to be to just chuck money (which we don't have) at the squad to improve quality which while it would help improve things is not the core issue at play in my opinion.

Teams have found an effective way of playing against us and have exploited it for the past 6 months and we have not adapted. At the very least Ralph needs to address the defensive issues in this team - 68 goals conceded (to go with 60 last year and 65 the year before so this is very much a Ralph trait rather than just this season), 19 losses, 11 games where we conceded 3 or more goals and of course another 9-0 collapse. The funny thing is we've shown we are capable, we grinded out a 1-0 win against City last year, did it again against Liverpool this season and managed to hold out with only 10 men against Leicester.

Funny thing is I believe Ralph is acutely aware of this (his comments on the OS seem to suggest this as well), the question will be is he willing or even able to make the necessary adjustments and if he isn't then should we be looking for someone else that might be able to?

Excellent summary. We haven’t addressed the obvious, conceding over 60 goals per season over the past 3, not 1, 3 seasons. 

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

19 minutes ago, Norm said:

Excellent summary. We haven’t addressed the obvious, conceding over 60 goals per season over the past 3, not 1, 3 seasons. 

Yep this is nail on the head. I feel we have one top-six level striker, then the rest of the attacking unit is good mid-table level. Defensive unit is relegation material.

[Toussaint]

17 hours ago, Master Bates said:

All I know is, whatever's going on, it's becoming tedious.

I’d call it soul destroying 

[trousers]

1 hour ago, badgerx16 said:

We had not secured safety by 4th Jan, as our subsequent form very nearly proved. Hindsight shows that we had accumulated enough points, but who expected at the start of the season that 29 points would keep a team up ?

Yes, of course I'm aware that you never know how many points are going to be enough until looking back at the end of the season. But I'm geniunely interested if, looking back retrospectively across each season, which Saints managers have amassed enough points that ended up being enough to avoid relegation earlier in the season than Ralph 'achieved' this times around. (And, yes, I'm also blissfully aware its a meaningless 'achievement' but it was just something I was pondering upon, purely as a matter of curiosity)

Edited 24 May, 2021 by trousers

[Toussaint]

4 hours ago, SKD said:

Raphina aside, Leeds don’t have a better squad than us. Same could probably be said about Newcastle and Palace who also finished above us. 
 

People weren’t blaming the squad for being crap when we had threads about winning the league and competing for Europe. 
 

Calling the players crap is an easy scape goat. We conceded 68 goals this season. Only second to West Brom. That’s with a back 4 consisting of one of the players of the season (KWP) 2 CB’s who’ll be playing in the euros and a seasoned LB. 

Lets be realistic, our back 4, whilst it may not be great, isn’t the second worst defence in the league (on paper). 
 

At some point, questions need to be asked of the manager. 

Agree, it’s easy to scapegoat the defence, I’ve always maintained that they are made to look foolish by the chaos in front of them. That chaos results from tactics I admit I don’t really understand, I’m sure that there is some logic to it, but all I see is this maniacal interchanging of positions that seems to leave big holes everywhere, especially later in games when the exhausted players can no longer maintain the effort required 

[Sheaf Saint]

2 minutes ago, trousers said:

Yes, of course I'm aware that you never know how many points are going to be enough until closer to the end of the season. But I'm geniunely interested if, looking back retrospectively across each season, which Saints managers have amassed enough points that ended up being enough to avoid relegation earlier in the season than Ralph 'achieved' this times around. (And, yes, I'm also blissfully aware its a meaningless 'achievement' but it was just something I was pondering upon, purely as a matter of curiosity)

The problem is that if we had not won another point after reaching 29 in January, then we would have lost to Fulham, so we would have gone down on 29 points with them getting 31.

[trousers]

1 minute ago, Sheaf Saint said:

The problem is that if we had not won another point after reaching 29 in January, then we would have lost to Fulham, so we would have gone down on 29 points with them getting 31.

Ah, yes, fair point. May be best if I keep my ponderings to myself in future

[Sheaf Saint]

4 minutes ago, trousers said:

Ah, yes, fair point. May be best if I keep my ponderings to myself in future

I take your point though. Brighton or Burnley below us could have stayed up on 29 points.

I think the previous record low anyone stayed up on was 32 wasn't it?

Edit: no, it wasn't. It was WBA on 34, when we went down in 04/05.

Edited 24 May, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[saint_stevo]

Get rid, tactically inept

[Forester]

4 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

This is a very good summary

 

[ErwinK1961]

I was in the Ralph in camp, but think after the end to the season we've had, I think his time is up.

Tactically is a strange one - we clearly do a lot of work the week of the game on tactics, as we seem to start games well in general and look good (but generally fail to capitalise on). But as soon as the oppo manager changes anything, we never seem to adapt at all. It's as if the players are told 'these are the tactics and we will use them no matter what the game situation is.' 

If it is a fitness issue, you do have to wonder what training is like. I know pre-season was somewhat shortened this year, but surely if the main part of his tactic is to press hard most of the match, you would focus time on getting the players super fit. Look at Leeds, how fit must they be? Everyone thought they would blow up, but they seemed to get stronger in the last 10 games. 

The squad isn't great, there are only a handful of players (Ings, KWP, JWP, Armstrong) that I would be bothered about losing. The lack of any sort of investment is always going to hamstring us and limit where we would finish across a season - but surely you adapt to what players you have. To not meaningfully change anything (tweaking a position here and there doesn't cut it for me) when we have officially gone on one of the worst 20 game runs of any premier league team is inexcusable. 

I don't think there's a manager out there within our reach (e.g. one without a club and therefore free) who could get us into the top half with this existing team. But without a change I think we are bang in trouble next season.

 

 

[JustinSFC]

4 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

This is a good post and I find myself agreeing with a lot of it.

But our form since January has been dog shit but after reading your post and agreeing with a lot of it, I'd be prepared to give him 10 games of a new season after a summer window.

If after 6 games we're still shocking or there is no serious consistent improvement, I'd look to start 'sounding' out managers with a view to sacking him.

As much as I agree with a lot of that, our form since January would have seen him sacked long, long ago at pretty much any other club in the league.

He's lucky to still be in a job after the first 9-0, taking into consideration our form leading up to that was fucking dogshit too.

 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

A sign of how we lack confidence as a club is that many want to keep Ralph simply out of a fear of the unknown or who would replace him. Talk about a negative reason for sticking with a man I believe to be tactically flawed . I still can't believe yesterday (Rusty Romeu for Walker-Peters). A great shame because at one stage I thought he was a great fit for us. I am not sure I want to trust him with the close season's budget. If he gets it wrong we really are up the creek.

[Chapel End]

18 hours ago, Turkish said:

Big summer ahead, we say that every summer.

Blackmore said it

[trousers]

2 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

I was in the Ralph in camp, but think after the end to the season we've had, I think his time is up.

I'm in the same camp but am fast running out of 'give him the benefit of doubt' cards.

I'm still somewhat bemused how a team can go from "top 6 in calendar year 2020" to "worst team in 2021". I hear the cries of "because teams have got wise to his tactics and he doesn't have the managerial ability to adapt" and I'm still open to persuasion on that synopsis. But... there's still a small part of me that thinks Ralph can rekindle 'the spirit of 2020' and thus give us a decent 21/22 season.

I'm basically an open-minded pragmatic kinda person, which is probably why I'm struggling to deduce which way things are likely to pan out if we stick with Ralph. Of course, none of us actually know how things will pan out whether we stick with him or not but, either way, the self-congratulatory "told you so" brigade will no doubt have their day in the sun in due course

Edited 24 May, 2021 by trousers

[SKD]

After pointing out Ralph’s failings for some months now and getting a torrent of abuse as a result, I have to say I’m feeling slightly satisfied to see that 90% of those on here are finally waking up. 

Shout out to the Lord who also saw through the Ralph cult. Egg on the face of a few posters, that’s for sure. 

 

Edited 24 May, 2021 by SKD

[Didcot Saint]

6 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

Agree with everything you say

[Badger]

7 hours ago, Dusic said:

 

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

 

Agree with much of what you say, but can we afford to allow him to build a squad he wants, or indeed anyone else for that matter ?

[Ex Lion Tamer]

33 minutes ago, trousers said:

I'm in the same camp but am fast running out of 'give him the benefit of doubt' cards.

I'm still somewhat bemused how a team can go from "top 6 in calendar year 2020" to "worst team in 2021". I hear the cries of "because teams have got wise to his tactics and he doesn't have the managerial ability to adapt" and I'm still open to persuasion on that synopsis. But... there's still a small part of me that thinks Ralph can rekindle 'the spirit of 2020' and thus give us a decent 21/22 season.

I'm basically an open-minded pragmatic kinda person, which is probably why I'm struggling to deduce which way things are likely to pan out if we stick with Ralph. Of course, none of us actually know how things will pan out whether we stick with him or not but, either way, the self-congratulatory "told you so" brigade will no doubt have their day in the sun in due course

This is basically it. The divide here is between people who are certain about what will happen in the future and are convinced that Ralph must go, and people who think football is unpredictable and that we should give Ralph 10 games to see if he can turn it around.

Of course, if Ralph doesn't turn it around then the former camp will all say "we were right and you were wrong", when actually the rest of us never said he would definitely turn it around, just that it is worth seeing if he can

[miserableoldgit]

4 hours ago, Mr X said:

I do respect his obvious passion but it was a bit cringe have to admit, just showed that we are weak & beating liverpool once was like winning the league for us! 

Not an excuse but apparently it was because it was the first time that he had actually beaten a Klopp team....not because it was Liverpool.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

37 minutes ago, Badger said:

Agree with much of what you say, but can we afford to allow him to build a squad he wants, or indeed anyone else for that matter ?

Dusic's earlier post highlighted for me that Ralph's signings have actually been pretty good, given budget constraints. So even if we change manager early next season, I'm comfortable for Ralph to continue building the squad this summer

7 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

 

Edited 24 May, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[sadoldgit]

42 minutes ago, miserableoldgit said:

Not an excuse but apparently it was because it was the first time that he had actually beaten a Klopp team....not because it was Liverpool.

Why should anyone excuse showing emotion? I shed a tear when MLT scored that last goal at the Dell and again when Lambert scored with his first touch for England. It was a very hard fought win and it clearly meant a great deal to him. It’s nice to have a manager who obviously cares.

[Saint_clark]

8 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

You're not wrong, but unfortunately the first transfer window where he will be freed of a lot of the big contract dross will be NEXT summer...does anyone think he'll get another season of shite in order to reach that point and take advantage? 

[pimpin4rizeal]

Here’s the thing our form under him has been terrible for ages, Do we really want to wait until what looks like will happen happens and we are in the relegation zone by Xmas and hiring the likes of allardyce to save us?

or do we take action now whilst we have the chance of getting a better manager whilst we are not in a bad position where no one wants to risk it employ someone else give him the summer to get to know the players and the chance to bring in who he wants?

im all for the latter 

[nta786]

7 minutes ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

Here’s the thing our form under him has been terrible for ages, Do we really want to wait until what looks like will happen happens and we are in the relegation zone by Xmas and hiring the likes of allardyce to save us?

or do we take action now whilst we have the chance of getting a better manager whilst we are not in a bad position where no one wants to risk it employ someone else give him the summer to get to know the players and the chance to bring in who he wants?

im all for the latter 

"getting a better manager" isn't guaranteed and I'm not sure I am willing to take that chance just yet!

Spurs look like they are struggling to find a replacement atm and they are a much bigger pull than we'd be. I'm interested to see who both Wolves and Crystal Palace get too. 

Edited 24 May, 2021 by nta786

[itchen]

And all three of those clubs seem to have  

1 hour ago, nta786 said:

"getting a better manager" isn't guaranteed and I'm not sure I am willing to take that chance just yet!

Spurs look like they are struggling to find a replacement atm and they are a much bigger pull than we'd be. I'm interested to see who both Wolves and Crystal Palace get too. 

And all three of those clubs seem to have more money than we do both to offer the manager in wages and, more importantly, in funds to being in new players. 

For much of the last part of the season we had key players out injured and insufficient squad depth to field replacements that were good enough. Players have taken longer to come back from injury because of COVID restrictions on treatment facilities. None of this is Ralph's fault.

Yes, another manager may have done better with the hand he was dealt and may do better in future.  But do we know who this person might be? Are they available? Would they come and operate under the constraints that a small, provincial, self-sustaining club has to? It seems to me that, unless we have positive answers to all those questions, we should stick with a manager who has brought us some good, exciting football (and also some dreadful performances) and who actually seems to care about the club.

It was only a few months back that many on here were worried that we would lose Ralph whenever a bigger club had a managerial vacancy.  We've all seen where changing managers every season left us. Let's stick with one for a while. Lauwrie McMenemy took us down in his first season and took another five years to get us up again. It there had been an Internet whinge site then, I'm sure there would have been calls for him to go.  Let's try patience.

 

[cambsaint]

MY thoughts are; last year with a full team and a largely fit Ings he did very well, but the more tactically aware managers soon worked out how to bypass the high press and exploit a defensive structure which his tactics allowed or even encouraged to be pulled out of place, I consider him to be an inept defensive coach, and the old adaege that if you don't concede you don't get beat always applies. I admit he has been unlucky with injuries but to keep on playing the same way was foolish especially as we had good defensive players. I have always thought that after Salisu got used to the league he should have played three at the back, Bednarek, Vestergard and Salisu, with fout in front. KWP, JWP, Dialleio, RB, then two, Armstrong and An other, we have a surplus of players for that position and Ings up front.

I really don't see many other teams outside the top eight ot nine significantly better than that, if you include Romeu.

I believe that he isn't flexible or open-minded enough to change a system that is quite honestly no longer fit for purpose at this level.

His substitutions have always been bizarre in the extreme, refusing to strengthen the defence when we are leading, and many other examples. Yesterday, where did WHU 's third goal come from-where one of our best players KWP had been covering.

Fianlly although I don't necessarily think Redmond has a particularly good tactical appreciation, to make him the whipping boy for our ills is nonsensical and also very cruel to hm.  He is presumably picked and sent out to follow his manager's instructions and for him to be picked so regularly suggest that RH is satisfied that he does that.I accept that he can't hit a barn door from five yards most days, but I think this may be a conjidence thing and he;s certainly not alone amongst our players in that department. His standing still offside on Sunday was inexcusable but perhaps he had  had it with this season. I hope it wasn't because RH has lost the dressing room, but there were certainly a few others who didn't look very happy.

If so then we face an exodus of our best players and certain relegation.

To conclude that unless RH very quickly gets an assistant who can coach and organise a defence and has his advice listened to on substitutions then I think RH must go.

Also as has been commented on we have the most physically imposing goalie in the PL and we don't play him against physical teams. Bamford wouldn't have got near him on Tuesday, and he would have been much better against WHU. He still has a weakness of getting that massive frame down to low balls near his feet that the best forwards can exploit, his kicking out is dreadful, but he has two CBs who are good at that, and he is a superb shot stopper.

[Dusic]

I'm not suprised that quite a few are losing faith in Ralph, but as I said in my earlier post, he has made 5 permanent signings across 5 windows and generally, despite all costing mediocre sums by PL standards they have helped us and are certainly better than the spell of recruitment before Ralph arrived.

Personally, I still have total faith that signings wise he knows exactly what we need to be better, and all his comments on it I have agreed with.

End of the day before he arrived we spent a load of cash on absolute dross and he has largely paid for that as there hasnt been enough churn of the playing squad to make a sizeable difference. A squad that survived because Swansea imploded.

Our form declined when we started playing midweek games on a regular basis and needed backup players to start and academy players to make an impact off the bench. 

The PL finds out weaknesses so fast. You face a tough enough task against the big sides, let alone when your go to attacking sub is Dan N'Lundulu. We haven't recovered from that loss of momentum despite getting players fit.

He deserves a chance of a proper summer, hopefully a squad with competent backup full backs and the odd other addition to freshen things up and a full pre season.

If he gets those things, we keep Ings and are still poor then fair enough.

 

 

 

[S-Clarke]

4 minutes ago, cambsaint said:

MY thoughts are; last year with a full team and a largely fit Ings he did very well, but the more tactically aware managers soon worked out how to bypass the high press and exploit a defensive structure which his tactics allowed or even encouraged to be pulled out of place, I consider him to be an inept defensive coach, and the old adaege that if you don't concede you don't get beat always applies. I admit he has been unlucky with injuries but to keep on playing the same way was foolish especially as we had good defensive players. I have always thought that after Salisu got used to the league he should have played three at the back, Bednarek, Vestergard and Salisu, with fout in front. KWP, JWP, Dialleio, RB, then two, Armstrong and An other, we have a surplus of players for that position and Ings up front.

I really don't see many other teams outside the top eight ot nine significantly better than that, if you include Romeu.

I believe that he isn't flexible or open-minded enough to change a system that is quite honestly no longer fit for purpose at this level.

His substitutions have always been bizarre in the extreme, refusing to strengthen the defence when we are leading, and many other examples. Yesterday, where did WHU 's third goal come from-where one of our best players KWP had been covering.

Fianlly although I don't necessarily think Redmond has a particularly good tactical appreciation, to make him the whipping boy for our ills is nonsensical and also very cruel to hm.  He is presumably picked and sent out to follow his manager's instructions and for him to be picked so regularly suggest that RH is satisfied that he does that.I accept that he can't hit a barn door from five yards most days, but I think this may be a conjidence thing and he;s certainly not alone amongst our players in that department. His standing still offside on Sunday was inexcusable but perhaps he had  had it with this season. I hope it wasn't because RH has lost the dressing room, but there were certainly a few others who didn't look very happy.

If so then we face an exodus of our best players and certain relegation.

To conclude that unless RH very quickly gets an assistant who can coach and organise a defence and has his advice listened to on substitutions then I think RH must go.

Also as has been commented on we have the most physically imposing goalie in the PL and we don't play him against physical teams. Bamford wouldn't have got near him on Tuesday, and he would have been much better against WHU. He still has a weakness of getting that massive frame down to low balls near his feet that the best forwards can exploit, his kicking out is dreadful, but he has two CBs who are good at that, and he is a superb shot stopper.

I think you make some good points, but the bit I've bolded says it it all for me and I think it can be attributed to being as simple as that.

Fully fit squad, consistent line-up, fully fit and confident Danny Ings = lots of goals, lots of wins. I don't think anything has necessarily changed in our approach over the course of this year, the only criticism, as you've mentioned, is that we've continued to play the same way when the players who make it successful haven't been available. 

When Ings scores, we usually win. When he doesn't, we don't and that's the crux of it really. Need better players/better depth to sustain things.

I don't agree with your views on Redmond though, I think he's totally flawed. He's been equally poor under previous managers as well, exhibiting the same frustrating traits. I think he's a lost cause and I wish Ralph would stop trying to persist with him.

[cambsaint]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

I think you make some good points, but the bit I've bolded says it it all for me and I think it can be attributed to being as simple as that.

Fully fit squad, consistent line-up, fully fit and confident Danny Ings = lots of goals, lots of wins. I don't think anything has necessarily changed in our approach over the course of this year, the only criticism, as you've mentioned, is that we've continued to play the same way when the players who make it successful haven't been available. 

When Ings scores, we usually win. When he doesn't, we don't and that's the crux of it really. Need better players/better depth to sustain things.

I don't agree with your views on Redmond though, I think he's totally flawed. He's been equally poor under previous managers as well, exhibiting the same frustrating traits. I think he's a lost cause and I wish Ralph would stop trying to persist with him.

I don't disagree that Redmond has his manifold flaws (which could possibly be coached out). My point was that he doesn't pick himself, we have capable alternatives albrit inexperienced, so RH must think he's carrying out his instructions adequately. A team doesn't leak as many goals in defence or miss so many chances just because of a wayward left winger. My point was that he shouldn't be made the whipping boy for managerial weknesses and poor performances and mistakes by others. Last week McCarthy was responsible for two of the goals conceded, and othere defensive howlers contributed to our defeat more than Redmond's lack of end product. I think some of the derision is down to frustration with him, he is so nearly a very good player but lacks a cutting edge.

[MarkSFC]

8 minutes ago, cambsaint said:

I don't disagree that Redmond has his manifold flaws (which could possibly be coached out). My point was that he doesn't pick himself, we have capable alternatives albrit inexperienced, so RH must think he's carrying out his instructions adequately. A team doesn't leak as many goals in defence or miss so many chances just because of a wayward left winger. My point was that he shouldn't be made the whipping boy for managerial weknesses and poor performances and mistakes by others. Last week McCarthy was responsible for two of the goals conceded, and othere defensive howlers contributed to our defeat more than Redmond's lack of end product. I think some of the derision is down to frustration with him, he is so nearly a very good player but lacks a cutting edge.

The problem is this. He flatters to decieve. He very rarely creates anything of note. He often gives the ball away. His running with the ball is rarely with any intent to go past an opposition player. His scoring rate is poor. The reason I want him to be sold is, other than the factors just mentioned, is that he is extremely unlikely (if at all) to get any better. We need a fresh talent in his position. 

[Saint_clark]

3 hours ago, cambsaint said:

I don't disagree that Redmond has his manifold flaws (which could possibly be coached out). My point was that he doesn't pick himself, we have capable alternatives albrit inexperienced, so RH must think he's carrying out his instructions adequately. A team doesn't leak as many goals in defence or miss so many chances just because of a wayward left winger. My point was that he shouldn't be made the whipping boy for managerial weknesses and poor performances and mistakes by others. Last week McCarthy was responsible for two of the goals conceded, and othere defensive howlers contributed to our defeat more than Redmond's lack of end product. I think some of the derision is down to frustration with him, he is so nearly a very good player but lacks a cutting edge.

5 years and nearly 200 appearances after signing and we're still talking about the player redmond COULD be if he is coached properly, or develops his game the right way, or if he just takes on his man more. 

I honestly don't understand how anyone can still defend him. All that time and all those appearances later and he's worse than the day he arrived. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

 

I honestly don't understand how anyone can still defend him. All that time and all those appearances later and he's worse than the day he arrived. 

And Ralph keeps picking him. Even picked him up front  for the semi final. 

[egg]

13 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

This is basically it. The divide here is between people who are certain about what will happen in the future and are convinced that Ralph must go, and people who think football is unpredictable and that we should give Ralph 10 games to see if he can turn it around.

Of course, if Ralph doesn't turn it around then the former camp will all say "we were right and you were wrong", when actually the rest of us never said he would definitely turn it around, just that it is worth seeing if he can

I get that, but 10 games into the season we'll have less replacement manager options as they'll have gone to Wolves, Palace, possibly Brighton if Potter moves on, etc. 

Regardless, he's had a diabolical half a season and looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Let's bite the bullet now and give a new man maximum time to bed in. 

[bangkoksaint]

26 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that, but 10 games into the season we'll have less replacement manager options as they'll have gone to Wolves, Palace, possibly Brighton if Potter moves on, etc. 

Regardless, he's had a diabolical half a season and looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Let's bite the bullet now and give a new man maximum time to bed in. 

Should have done this 5 games ago. Staggering mismanagement at a senior level to let him continue. 

[austsaint]

2 hours ago, egg said:

I get that, but 10 games into the season we'll have less replacement manager options as they'll have gone to Wolves, Palace, possibly Brighton if Potter moves on, etc. 

Regardless, he's had a diabolical half a season and looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Let's bite the bullet now and give a new man maximum time to bed in. 

I think it was Dusic who made the point that if Ralph wasn't the likeable, upbeat, high energy character he is, the axe would probably have already fallen given the Club's abysmal record this year.  I'm still sitting on the fence....we've seen some brilliant attacking Football in the last two seasons but also recurring doubts around tactics, formation, team selection and substitutions.    Then there's the question marks about the quality of the squad and the lead weight of Gao.     I can't see Semmens pushing the envelope; but I can see the case for a new Manager.

[SKD]

2 hours ago, egg said:

I get that, but 10 games into the season we'll have less replacement manager options as they'll have gone to Wolves, Palace, possibly Brighton if Potter moves on, etc. 

Regardless, he's had a diabolical half a season and looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Let's bite the bullet now and give a new man maximum time to bed in. 

Would be a good choice for us to be honest. Got them playing a decent style on not a huge budget and if he had a striker they’d be in the top 10. 
 

Not sure he’s done enough to justify a move to a top team just yet, would he leave Brighton for us? I don’t know. Probably not with Ings leaving. 

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, egg said:

I get that, but 10 games into the season we'll have less replacement manager options as they'll have gone to Wolves, Palace, possibly Brighton if Potter moves on, etc. 

Regardless, he's had a diabolical half a season and looks like a rabbit in the headlights. Let's bite the bullet now and give a new man maximum time to bed in. 

Exactly- "ten games" is more than just ten games, it's an entire pre season, its all the outgoings and incomings, it's all the pre-season.

10 games and still in the shit is fat harder to fix than a clean break now.

Especially as the 10-more-gamers will cling to "but we got a good point at the Etihad last month" or whatever happens in the new season and they'll push for another 10 games for him to "turn it round".

And if the replacement is duff, it happens. But it still won't mean that sacking Ralph was the wrong call - we have a sustained period of dreadful form and performances that would typically get every manager sacked no question.

To me he looks gone.

[Super_Uwe]

23 hours ago, Dusic said:

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

Great post. I have to be honest and say I hadn't really thought about the limitations he's had to work with in the transfer market.

The club needs to give him some backing this summer. We need a few new faces and maybe move a few on as well.

I totally get the club is still paying the price for the 2016-2018 recruitment disaster, we spent big money on several players who delivered very little. But we need to freshen up otherwise I fear next season will be a relegation battle.

[Turkish]

31 minutes ago, SKD said:

Would be a good choice for us to be honest. Got them playing a decent style on not a huge budget and if he had a striker they’d be in the top 10. 
 

Not sure he’s done enough to justify a move to a top team just yet, would he leave Brighton for us? I don’t know. Probably not with Ings leaving. 

Why would he? He gets given money to spend, decent owner. Probably the only difference between the two teams is Ings, if they had someone who could stick the ball in the net regularly then they'd be a lot higher (yes i know a lot of clubs could say the same)

[SW5 SAINT]

37 minutes ago, SKD said:

Would be a good choice for us to be honest. Got them playing a decent style on not a huge budget and if he had a striker they’d be in the top 10. 
 

Not sure he’s done enough to justify a move to a top team just yet, would he leave Brighton for us? I don’t know. Probably not with Ings leaving. 

It’s more likely Ing’s will go to Brighton.......

[Nemi]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why would he? He gets given money to spend, decent owner. Probably the only difference between the two teams is Ings, if they had someone who could stick the ball in the net regularly then they'd be a lot higher (yes i know a lot of clubs could say the same)

Ings aside, I doubt Brighton fans would very interested having any other Saints players in their starting line-up.

[JustinSFC]

7 minutes ago, SW5 SAINT said:

It’s more likely Ing’s will go to Brighton.......

Why in any universe would Danny Ings go to Brighton??
 

[SKD]

13 minutes ago, Super_Uwe said:

Great post. I have to be honest and say I hadn't really thought about the limitations he's had to work with in the transfer market.

The club needs to give him some backing this summer. We need a few new faces and maybe move a few on as well.

I totally get the club is still paying the price for the 2016-2018 recruitment disaster, we spent big money on several players who delivered very little. But we need to freshen up otherwise I fear next season will be a relegation battle.

See I don’t get this. Our net spend over the last 5 years is pretty much lowest in the league. Yeah we wasted the VVD money, but I don’t really see why that should hamstring us forever more? The VVD money effectively has left us just above (in footballing terms) even. 
 

Why are we seemingly the only club who has to sell before we can buy? 

[JustinSFC]

7 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Ings aside, I doubt Brighton fans would very interested having any other Saints players in their starting line-up.

That's no problem then, because Ings to Brighton is never ever, ever, ever happening.