Ralph Hasenhuttl

[nta786]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

I agree. Going into the new season with a new manager is basically the same risk as going into the new season with Ralph again.

All I can foresee at the moment is that come November Ralph will be sacked, leaving us pretty much in the same position he inherited us in three years previously.

This was the table when he inherited us - are we suggesting we set this as the barometer for if we pull the trigger on Ralph next season?

Give him 15 games - if we are on 9 points or less then perhaps it will be time to rip up the playbook and get someone with fresh ideas in. 

[egg]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

Plenty of managers available. To suggest there are none that would be an improvement on the second half of that season is a ludicrous argument. 

Yep, agreed, and the "but let's keep hold of him until we can identify someone better" argument is one I don't agree with. He's not been good enough for a while and needs to go. 

[badgerx16]

I think the main issue is the way we have tended to fall off a cliff half way through the second half of games. ( Pointless stats alert !! );- In the 38 PL matches this season we have outscored our opposition in 10 of the second halves of games, and been outscored in 17 of them. Out of 13 matches where we were behind at half time we got 1 point. Out of 14 matches we were ahead in at half time, we went on to win 8.

Edited 23 May, 2021 by badgerx16

[egg]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

I think the main issue is the way we have tended to fall off a cliff half way through the second half of games. ( Pointless stats alert !! );- In the 38 PL matches this season we have outscored our opposition in 10 of the second halves of games, and been outscored in 17 of them.

I get that, but why does it happen? For me the Leeds game highlighted it. Bielsa made tactical changes which Ralph couldn't address. Even young Mason did it in the Spurs game. 

[Adman]

I’ve always thought we’ve been at our best when we’ve had 3 up top, a target man, someone with pace and someone with guile. Shearer / Wallace / Le Tiss or Lambert / Jay Rod / Lallana or Pelle / Mane / Tadic. I’d love us to go back to that style of attack, but can’t see it happening until there are changes at every level. We have to be more direct next year, and stop playing backwards for the CBs or GK to hoof it or give it away.

[CB Fry]

8 minutes ago, nta786 said:

This was the table when he inherited us - are we suggesting we set this as the barometer for if we pull the trigger on Ralph next season?

Give him 15 games - if we are on 9 points or less then perhaps it will be time to rip up the playbook and get someone with fresh ideas in. 

Yep, this is basically where I think we're heading. We won't sack him now, but we'll just stutter on to something resembling that. When we do sack him its anyone's guess what happens then. Big Sam on standby.

[Wade Garrett]

He has to go:
 

Outdone tactically on a regular basis.

Poor team selections.

Poor substitutions.

Piss-poor results.

I don’t see it as a risk.

Wish it was that easy to get rid of the owner.

[Master Bates]

All I know is, whatever's going on, it's becoming tedious.

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

I get that, but why does it happen? For me the Leeds game highlighted it. Bielsa made tactical changes which Ralph couldn't address. Even young Mason did it in the Spurs game. 

Perhaps there is nobody sat behind him on the bench willing, or able, to help.

[egg]

1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

Perhaps there is nobody sat behind him on the bench willing, or able, to help.

Perhaps it's just that Ralph isn't good enough. Too many excuses are made for him. 

[Convict Colony]

26 minutes ago, nta786 said:

This was the table when he inherited us - are we suggesting we set this as the barometer for if we pull the trigger on Ralph next season?

Give him 15 games - if we are on 9 points or less then perhaps it will be time to rip up the playbook and get someone with fresh ideas in. 

Man city on 41 pts after 15 games hahaha

Shows what ownership with money can provide

[Mr X]

2 hours ago, washsaint said:

Hassenhuttl is actually a pretty s**t manager.  Dropping Stephens (a leader on the pitch) for the awful Bednarek, Redmond being untouchable, Minamino being utter s***e yet we want him back, a very poor Walcott being handed a 2 year contract.  We seem to be making awful decisions consistently and he is at the heart of them.

Why did Tella, one bright spot this season, not start?

You can't argue with some of this his decisions are completely baffling! it's almost like he's been given free reign to try whatever the hell he likes with no consequence of losing his job. 

[MarkSFC]

14 minutes ago, Mr X said:

You can't argue with some of this his decisions are completely baffling! it's almost like he's been given free reign to try whatever the hell he likes with no consequence of losing his job. 

I agree. Many times I've thought he was experimenting. Almost like a constant experiment...

The board should experiment with a different manager as much as I think RH is a decent man. 

[JustinSFC]

Adam Blackmore...

Original tweet and a reply in the same thread.

 

[Master Bates]

Not been allowed due to covid.

[Chapel End]

2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Adam Blackmore...

Original tweet and a reply in the same thread.

 

The 4th line in AB tweet sums it perfectly 

[JustinSFC]

3 minutes ago, Master Bates said:

Not been allowed due to covid.

Ah yeah. Didn't even consider that.

To add... But surely they can do it remotely?

 

 

 

Edited 23 May, 2021 by JustinSFC

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

The 4th line in AB tweet sums it perfectly 

Subs didn’t help. Agreed. They rarely do.

[Chapel End]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Subs didn’t help. Agreed. They rarely do.

The 6th is pretty accurate too

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

The 6th is pretty accurate too

Big summer ahead, we say that every summer.

[Verbal]

5 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

The 6th is pretty accurate too

"era and lost 19 games"?

[supersonic]

Consistently tactically outclassed

piss-poor team selections

Piss-poor subs

Piss-poor in-game management

Constant selection problems (picking underperforming players and not playing others)

There is zero sign on improvement.

We've been outplayed in the majority of games, it really is the norm rather than the exception.

Worst points return over 20 games than ANY manager since PL was formed.

Yet some Muppets still fail to blame him and even go as far as saying "even Pep would struggle with this lot".

Any manager who has a worse record than Wigley, Branfoot, Hughes and Pellegrino deserves the sack. 

 

 

[supersonic]

5 hours ago, John B said:

We can blame Ralph as long as we want but ultimately it is down to the strategy of the club which is failing

 

The Academy is not producing top class players the last one was JWP and that seems ages ago and the ones coming through like Sims and Hesketh are weak physically and are of League 1 standard.

 

Buying young players from outside the PL is all well and good if they turn out to be talented but most do not like Gunn and Hoedt.

 

We need to buy players who have had experience of the PL like Bertrand Romeau KWP or the Scottish League like Davis Wanama VVD Armstrong and to some extent Forster before his serious injury 

 

 

 

Yep, it's the club strategy which continues to pick McCarthy in goal. It's club strategy which continues to pick Redmond, Bednarek and Diallo.

And it was club strategy today which took off our only RB and one of our top performers and left us gaining just one shot on target in the 2nd half.

Remember, it's club strategy and not the manager 🙄

[sydenhamssocks]

23 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Consistently tactically outclassed

piss-poor team selections

Piss-poor subs

Piss-poor in-game management

Constant selection problems (picking underperforming players and not playing others)

There is zero sign on improvement.

We've been outplayed in the majority of games, it really is the norm rather than the exception.

Worst points return over 20 games than ANY manager since PL was formed.

Yet some Muppets still fail to blame him and even go as far as saying "even Pep would struggle with this lot".

Any manager who has a worse record than Wigley, Branfoot, Hughes and Pellegrino deserves the sack. 

 

 

This is the correct and only assessment Ralph should get. 
His over inflated idea of his own skills have been laid bare. Time to go.  

[Patrick Bateman]

41 minutes ago, supersonic said:

Consistently tactically outclassed

piss-poor team selections

Piss-poor subs

Piss-poor in-game management

Constant selection problems (picking underperforming players and not playing others)

There is zero sign on improvement.

We've been outplayed in the majority of games, it really is the norm rather than the exception.

Worst points return over 20 games than ANY manager since PL was formed.

Yet some Muppets still fail to blame him and even go as far as saying "even Pep would struggle with this lot".

Any manager who has a worse record than Wigley, Branfoot, Hughes and Pellegrino deserves the sack. 

 

 

This. Hassenhuttl can do one, along with MOST of the team. 2x 9-0 defeats, worst run in Saints' top flight history, horrible. 

[Trader]

Yep, even ignoring all the other failures, how can you lose 9-0 twice and still not lose your job?

[Østerrike]

if 9-0 is the only thing you are able to argue with... this is simply poor.

[badgerx16]

46 minutes ago, Østerrike said:

if 9-0 is the only thing you are able to argue with... this is simply poor.

 

9 hours ago, supersonic said:

Consistently tactically outclassed

piss-poor team selections

Piss-poor subs

Piss-poor in-game management

Constant selection problems (picking underperforming players and not playing others)

There is zero sign on improvement.

We've been outplayed in the majority of games, it really is the norm rather than the exception.

Worst points return over 20 games than ANY manager since PL was formed.

Yet some Muppets still fail to blame him and even go as far as saying "even Pep would struggle with this lot".

Any manager who has a worse record than Wigley, Branfoot, Hughes and Pellegrino deserves the sack. 

 

 

Two 9-0s are just the polish on the turd.

[TWar]

8 hours ago, supersonic said:

Yep, it's the club strategy which continues to pick McCarthy in goal. It's club strategy which continues to pick Redmond, Bednarek and Diallo.

And it was club strategy today which took off our only RB and one of our top performers and left us gaining just one shot on target in the 2nd half.

Remember, it's club strategy and not the manager 🙄

Have we added Diallo to the "do not pick" list? I thought he looked quite good at West Ham, made some great forward passes and linked play. Bednarek is not worse than Stephens, Stephens was directly responsible for our loss against Leeds (along with Macca), just let Bamford wander off him. I think with our CBs it will always be a "grasses greener situation". Ideally we play Salisu and Vestergaard but we don't have an lb so we are playing a 352 so one of Stephens or Bednarek must play. Redmond must start too as he is our only LB option. Even when he isn't though aside from Armstrong (who has played at 6 more often than not) he is not worse than any other attacking mid. You can complain about picking the three of them but we don't really have better options. 

[Nemi]

So in Hasenhuttl’s worst season here, with some weird team selections along the way, we finish 15th with 12 wins and 43 points. Same amount as wins as Puel and three less points. 
 

Considering our squad has only got worse since then, we ended up pretty much exactly where we should expect with these players.  
 

I can’t think of another manager who would do any better or any worse, considering how everyone complains about the two goalkeepers, Stephens, Bednarek, Bertrand, Djenepo, Redmond, Walcott, Minamino, Adams when they’re all regular starters but despite that we should be doing better?

[CB Fry]

3 minutes ago, Nemi said:

So in Hasenhuttl’s worst season here, with some weird team selections along the way, we finish 15th with 12 wins and 43 points. Same amount as wins as Puel and three less points. 
 

Considering our squad has only got worse since then, we ended up pretty much exactly where we should expect with these players.  
 

I can’t think of another manager who would do any better or any worse, considering how everyone complains about the two goalkeepers, Stephens, Bednarek, Bertrand, Djenepo, Redmond, Walcott, Minamino, Adams when they’re all regular starters but despite that we should be doing better?

You literally named a manager that got three more points (so this season would have finished three places higher), three fewer defeats and conceded just the twenty fewer goals in his season. 

So yeah, let's not say absolutely no one could do any better when we have had a season absolutely spectacular in its mediocrity.

[Nemi]

6 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

You literally named a manager that got three more points (so this season would have finished three places higher), three fewer defeats and conceded just the twenty fewer goals in his season. 

So yeah, let's not say absolutely no one could do any better when we have had a season absolutely spectacular in its mediocrity.

Maybe try reading the first sentence on the second paragraph. 
 

It has been pretty crap, but despite that we’ve ended up 15th and when you look at it, this is probably the 15th best squad in the league (at most).

[badgerx16]

9 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Maybe try reading the first sentence on the second paragraph. 
 

It has been pretty crap, but despite that we’ve ended up 15th and when you look at it, this is probably the 15th best squad in the league (at most).

15th place, on the face of it, might not be too bad. However, we have maintained the same squad, bar Minamino, for the entire season. When we beat Liverpool we had played 17 matches and attained 29 points. In the next 21 matches we got less than half that points total, acheiving a grand total of 4 wins, 3 of which were against teams who finished in the bottom 4, and only beating one team that finished above us - Palace, who finished 14th. Same squad, same manager.

[Nemi]

18 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

15th place, on the face of it, might not be too bad. However, we have maintained the same squad, bar Minamino, for the entire season. When we beat Liverpool we had played 17 matches and attained 29 points. In the next 21 matches we got less than half that points total, acheiving a grand total of 4 wins, 3 of which were against teams who finished in the bottom 4, and only beating one team that finished above us - Palace, who finished 14th. Same squad, same manager.

I couldn’t care less who manages next season though. It will be the same old story of shit investment in the summer, no quality or leadership on the pitch and inevitably crap results and a bottom half finish. Maybe if we got a new manager they will do it in a more consistent, conventional manner with our wins and losses evenly distributed across the season and maybe then everyone will be happy.

But no matter what, and regardless of who is manager we will finish 14th and below again next season, unless by some miracle there’s actually decent investment in the summer, which invariably won’t happen.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

51 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Maybe try reading the first sentence on the second paragraph. 
 

It has been pretty crap, but despite that we’ve ended up 15th and when you look at it, this is probably the 15th best squad in the league (at most).

The majority of this squad managed to be the 5th best prem team over the 2020 calendar year. Early season form was at a level equal to our best year under Koeman. We may have been overachieving during that time (a good part of which was probably down to Ings great form last season) but the players have shown they are capable at least of getting results.

I'll say the same as I did earlier in the season - we have (mostly) the same players, playing roughly the same tactics with the same manager and we've gone from one of the best teams form wise to one of the absolute worst in less than 12 months. Injuries have played some part but to me such a big drop in form suggests that the tactics are no longer effective and need changing, but people seem to be resistant to this idea and they don't want to admit that Ralph may have got it wrong. For them the answer seems to be to just chuck money (which we don't have) at the squad to improve quality which while it would help improve things is not the core issue at play in my opinion.

Teams have found an effective way of playing against us and have exploited it for the past 6 months and we have not adapted. At the very least Ralph needs to address the defensive issues in this team - 68 goals conceded (to go with 60 last year and 65 the year before so this is very much a Ralph trait rather than just this season), 19 losses, 11 games where we conceded 3 or more goals and of course another 9-0 collapse. The funny thing is we've shown we are capable, we grinded out a 1-0 win against City last year, did it again against Liverpool this season and managed to hold out with only 10 men against Leicester.

Funny thing is I believe Ralph is acutely aware of this (his comments on the OS seem to suggest this as well), the question will be is he willing or even able to make the necessary adjustments and if he isn't then should we be looking for someone else that might be able to?

[Turkish]

there was a 10 point gap between 11th and 12th this season, the good news being we are midtable in the crap 9, but only 2 points off being top of the crap 9. If we can sort the full back positions out and keep Ings fit next season we have every chance of topping our mini league. 

[trousers]

Clutching at straws for some positives, who was the last Saints manager to secure premier league safety by 4th January (matchday 17)?

[SKD]

53 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Maybe try reading the first sentence on the second paragraph. 
 

It has been pretty crap, but despite that we’ve ended up 15th and when you look at it, this is probably the 15th best squad in the league (at most).

Raphina aside, Leeds don’t have a better squad than us. Same could probably be said about Newcastle and Palace who also finished above us. 
 

People weren’t blaming the squad for being crap when we had threads about winning the league and competing for Europe. 
 

Calling the players crap is an easy scape goat. We conceded 68 goals this season. Only second to West Brom. That’s with a back 4 consisting of one of the players of the season (KWP) 2 CB’s who’ll be playing in the euros and a seasoned LB. 

Lets be realistic, our back 4, whilst it may not be great, isn’t the second worst defence in the league (on paper). 
 

At some point, questions need to be asked of the manager. 

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, SKD said:

Raphina aside, Leeds don’t have a better squad than us. Same could probably be said about Newcastle and Palace who also finished above us. 
 

People weren’t blaming the squad for being crap when we had threads about winning the league and competing for Europe. 
 

Calling the players crap is an easy scape goat. We conceded 68 goals this season. Only second to West Brom. That’s with a back 4 consisting of one of the players of the season (KWP) 2 CB’s who’ll be playing in the euros and a seasoned LB. 

Lets be realistic, our back 4, whilst it may not be great, isn’t the second worst defence in the league (on paper). 
 

At some point, questions need to be asked of the manager. 

But if you take out the 9-0 loss which was a freak result, the 5-2 home to Spurs when we played well the first half, the 5 goals we let in against Man City when we were the best team they've faced for 20 minutes We've actually got a better defensive record than Leicester.

[Nemi]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

Raphina aside, Leeds don’t have a better squad than us. Same could probably be said about Newcastle and Palace who also finished above us. 
 

People weren’t blaming the squad for being crap when we had threads about winning the league and competing for Europe. 
 

Calling the players crap is an easy scape goat. We conceded 68 goals this season. Only second to West Brom. That’s with a back 4 consisting of one of the players of the season (KWP) 2 CB’s who’ll be playing in the euros and a seasoned LB. 

Lets be realistic, our back 4, whilst it may not be great, isn’t the second worst defence in the league (on paper). 
 

At some point, questions need to be asked of the manager. 

 

9 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

The majority of this squad managed to be the 5th best prem team over the 2020 calendar year. Early season form was at a level equal to our best year under Koeman. We may have been overachieving during that time (a good part of which was probably down to Ings great form last season) but the players have shown they are capable at least of getting results.

I'll say the same as I did earlier in the season - we have (mostly) the same players, playing roughly the same tactics with the same manager and we've gone from one of the best teams form wise to one of the absolute worst in less than 12 months. Injuries have played some part but to me such a big drop in form suggests that the tactics are no longer effective and need changing, but people seem to be resistant to this idea and they don't want to admit that Ralph may have got it wrong. For them the answer seems to be to just chuck money (which we don't have) at the squad to improve quality which while it would help improve things is not the core issue at play in my opinion.

Teams have found an effective way of playing against us and have exploited it for the past 6 months and we have not adapted. At the very least Ralph needs to address the defensive issues in this team - 68 goals conceded (to go with 60 last year and 65 the year before so this is very much a Ralph trait rather than just this season), 19 losses, 11 games where we conceded 3 or more goals and of course another 9-0 collapse. The funny thing is we've shown we are capable, we grinded out a 1-0 win against City last year, did it again against Liverpool this season and managed to hold out with only 10 men against Leicester.

Funny thing is I believe Ralph is acutely aware of this (his comments on the OS seem to suggest this as well), the question will be is he willing or even able to make the necessary adjustments and if he isn't then should we be looking for someone else that might be able to?

Both,

I really don’t care about arguing about the pros and cons of Ralph Hasenhuttl. 

I simply have two points which make up my one overriding point. Our squad is about the 16th best in the league. (And it seems you both disagree). 

Given the history of our managerial appointments under Gao (Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, maybe Puel too I can’t remember the dates) what makes anyone think that we’re going to break the trend and appoint some managerial genius who will get us any further up the league?

If we get a new manager they’ll be cheap and will probably turn out to be no better than any previous recruitments and we’ll be here in no time again moaning about whatever flaws they have.

Given this, my main point is under Gao no matter who is manager we will be a bottom half team. The ownership of the club is where the biggest problem lays.

 

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Nemi said:

 

Both,

I really don’t care about arguing about the pros and cons of Ralph Hasenhuttl. 

I simply have two points which make up my one overriding point. Our squad is about the 16th best in the league. (And it seems you both disagree). 

Given the history of our managerial appointments under Gao (Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, maybe Puel too I can’t remember the dates) what makes anyone think that we’re going to break the trend and appoint some managerial genius who will get us any further up the league?

If we get a new manager they’ll be cheap and will probably turn out to be no better than any previous recruitments and we’ll be here in no time again moaning about whatever flaws they have.

Given this, my main point is under Gao no matter who is manager we will be a bottom half team. The ownership of the club is where the biggest problem lays.

 

Pre season, given the strong run towards the back end of last season, I’d have hoped to have finished in and around the top 10. Up until November, I’d have liked us to challenge top 8 (not unrealistic when you look at West Ham). 
 

Regardless of how you good or bad you think our squad is, it’s not a handful of wins in 20 odd league games, losing 9-0 twice, getting hidings from many teams in the process bad. 
 

As many have said, the same group have shown over the course of a calendar year that they aren’t as bad as we’ve seen for the past 6 months. That run is some people’s reason to keep the manager, you can’t have it both ways. 

[Dusic]

I have been a big Ralph fan. I don't think anyone can deny that he united the fanbase and brought some hope back after Pellegrino and Hughes.

The way we bouned back from the Leicester game, played really well during lockdown and then started this season - it gave a sense that we had progressed.

Since then it has gone wrong - and there are clear reasons why that started - but they havent really been factors towards the end of that run.

It shows how much momentum is a factor and difficult that is to turn.

My conclusion is that I still feel Ralph has operated with his hands tied behind his back in the transfer market.

Since he has joined in 2018, in terms of proper 1st team signings he has made:

Goalkeeper - None

Right back - KWP (very successful)

Left back - None

Centre Back - Salisu (needed time but promising)

Centre Mid - Diallo (jury is out but clearly has something)

No10 - Djenepo (jury out), Walcott (good for what his intended role is), Minamino (no brainer loan, at the time anyway)

Striker - Adams (good)

By my calculations that is 5 permanent signings over 5 transfer windows, for a team that had struggled for a couple of years before he joined.

Some teams in that time have probably signed 12-15 players.

Every summer is massive, but they really need to allow him to build a squad he wants because largely he still relies on the players he inherited, the ones who only stayed up because Swansea capitulated.

I will judge Ralph in October/November and see where we are then.

 

Edited 24 May, 2021 by Dusic

[Sheaf Saint]

33 minutes ago, SKD said:

We conceded 68 goals this season. Only second to West Brom. That’s with a back 4 consisting of one of the players of the season (KWP) 2 CB’s who’ll be playing in the euros and a seasoned LB. 

Lets be realistic, our back 4, whilst it may not be great, isn’t the second worst defence in the league (on paper). 

At some point, questions need to be asked of the manager. 

I don't think the back for per se are the real problem. Yes they all have their limitations, but the midfield protection in front of them since Romeu got injured has been pretty much non-existent, and they have been badly let down by having a crap keeper behind them.

I'm still utterly at a loss to work out why Ralph thought it was a good idea to keep rotating the keepers towards the end. Forster saves a penalty and then gets dropped for a guy who is woefully out of form, who then goes on to concede 5 goals in 2 games - at least 3 of which he should have done much better with (WH's second yesterday was a mis-hit and he didn't even move FFS!)

He just can't help tinkering with the team for no good reason. Tella has looked really good lately, so of course Ralph drops him yesterday for the perpetually useless Redmond. He can't find a settled midfield or attacking combo so it's no wonder we always look dis-jointed. It's no coincidence that our run at the end of last season coincided with us having a settled team.

I'm not convinced Ralph is the right man to lead us out of this rut, but I would only be in favour of sacking him if we could guarantee we have someone better lined up, and we don't end up with a repeat of 2017 when we got rid of Puel only to find that our top targets then turned us down and we ended up with Pellegrino. That would be more disastrous than starting next season with Ralph IMO.

Edited 24 May, 2021 by Sheaf Saint

[beatlesaint]

I’ve always supported Ralph but I must admit the past few months have given me reason to wonder why - 

Jankewitz - to not give the kid another chance after the Man Utd debacle is inexcusable. What message does that send out. I don’t care if the boy is leaving in the summer or not, he should have been given a chance to show what he can do.

Subs - the timing is mostly ridiculous, you can almost set your watch by them. The effectiveness is bar one or two occasions is to weaken the team further. They are the same changes time after time. Some players must have splinters on the arses as they’ve been sat there so long without coming on.

The Rotating Goalkeepers - this is just crazy. A piss poor defence like ours needs some stability behind it. Two games each then change? What the hell? Even that didn’t last when yesterday McCarthy gets a third game in a row despite being less than average against Leeds midweek.

Blind Spots - this mainly relates to certain players, we all know who. Some have licence to be as bloody awful as is humanly possible but still get picked the following game, even in positions where there is competition. Why has Djenepo hardly played since his man of the match performance at home to Chelsea? Oh yeah, sorry, Redmond and his vast array of eye catching skills.

Same Old Same Old - every week we set up the same, we do the same things badly and get punished for them yet the following match off we go again. For the love of God if it ain’t working try something different !!!

 

I know it’s a tough job, I know bringing in the players he wants is almost impossible etcetc but at the same time you have to take some measure of responsibility and help yourself. I never feel Ralph does that.

Edited 24 May, 2021 by beatlesaint

[itchen]

I like Ralph but I recognise that, obviously, something has gone wrong and the usual footballing answer is to blame the guy in charge. But suppose we all agree that our slump in the last half of the season is down to Ralph. What then? 

We sack him and have to pay compensation for the remainder of his contract (which hardly anybody objected to renewing) and thus reduce our meagre budget still further. We then have to get in a new manager who would work for the relatively low wages and budget that Saints can offer.  We may get lucky and get a young, upcoming, ambitious manager who can make the best of our limited squad and any likely low-budget additions to it. I've no idea who that may be.  The ones often touted (Graham Potter, Eddie Howe) have both finished lower than us in the last couple of seasons.  But we may get unlucky and bring in someone like Pellegrino or Hughes who not only get dreadful results but play dreadful, boring football. At least Ralph gives us entertainment when it goes right.

So I think, in out current straitened circumstances, we have to stick with Ralph and hope that we can eventually build a squad who can deliver results in the way Ralph wants to play which, when it works, is great to watch.

 

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

35 minutes ago, Nemi said:

I really don’t care about arguing about the pros and cons of Ralph Hasenhuttl. 

Then perhaps this is not the correct thread to be posting in.

36 minutes ago, Nemi said:

I simply have two points which make up my one overriding point. Our squad is about the 16th best in the league. (And it seems you both disagree). 

Was just pointing out that our '16th best squad in the league' had us top 5 form for the whole of 2020 and in European contention the first third of this season and so while maybe not top half quality are not as bad as many are making out. I can appreciate that you do not share this opinion though.

36 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Given the history of our managerial appointments under Gao (Pellegrino, Hughes, Hasenhuttl, maybe Puel too I can’t remember the dates) what makes anyone think that we’re going to break the trend and appoint some managerial genius who will get us any further up the league?

I don't but I also don't think that sticking with something that blatantly isn't working will somehow make us improve either. That doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of Ralph but changes need to be made.

38 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Given this, my main point is under Gao no matter who is manager we will be a bottom half team. The ownership of the club is where the biggest problem lays.

I'd agree that under Gao we are not going to move up much further but I also don't think you can blame the owner for the on pitch problems that have affected the latter half of this season. Hopefully new ownership will come in and we can get some proper investment which can help us move up but any new owner will also be a risk.

[Nemi]

37 minutes ago, SKD said:

Pre season, given the strong run towards the back end of last season, I’d have hoped to have finished in and around the top 10. Up until November, I’d have liked us to challenge top 8 (not unrealistic when you look at West Ham). 
 

Regardless of how you good or bad you think our squad is, it’s not a handful of wins in 20 odd league games, losing 9-0 twice, getting hidings from many teams in the process bad. 
 

As many have said, the same group have shown over the course of a calendar year that they aren’t as bad as we’ve seen for the past 6 months. That run is some people’s reason to keep the manager, you can’t have it both ways. 

If you’re asking me why we have been so bad recently, I have no idea - if I had the solutions I’d be out there managing.

Maybe it’s because Hasenhuttl’s a high risk, high reward manager. We hit a good patch of form and get some good luck (like last calendar year) his tactics help us over-perform. We hit a bad run of form with bad luck (like this year) his tactics make us do worse.

Last season, there were plenty of occasions when we could of easily missed chances instead of scoring and we could of ended up doing just as bad, then. But also this season, there were plenty of occasions when we could of scored chances we missed and we could of done just as well as we did last season.

Maybe that’s his number one flaw, he relies too much on us getting lucky and taking our chances, and that’s why he manages Southampton instead of Man City. 

But one good patch of form in 4 years, doesn’t suddenly make this team capable of finishing top 10. 

In the long term it’s evened out and overall we’ve finished roughly where we belong - in the bottom half. Our win rate has ended up pretty stable:

16/17 (Puel) - 31.5,

17/18 (Pellegrino/Hughes) - 18.4,

18/19 (Hughes/Hasenhuttl) - 23.6 (7 per cent for Hughes/33 per cent for Hasenhuttl),

19/20 (Hasenhuttl) - 39.4,

20/21 (Hasenhuttl) - 31.5

If you want to argue about the ability of Hasenhuttl, please go do it with someone else and stop quoting me, I’m not interested and I’m not trying to convince anyone he’s anything more than an average manager.

The only point I’ve consistently maintained is that under the stewardship of Gao, no manager (who we’ll realistically recruit) will get us into the top-half as long as he remains in control of this football club as recruitment (player and managerial) and investment will continue to be poor.

 

 

[Nemi]

19 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Was just pointing out that our '16th best squad in the league' had us top 5 form for the whole of 2020 and in European contention the first third of this season and so while maybe not top half quality are not as bad as many are making out. I can appreciate that you do not share this opinion though.

I’ve just said it above, but I’ll reiterate: one good run of form in otherwise four years of crap doesn’t make us a good team. Every team has a good run of form at some point and that was our good run of form. Apart from that one purple patch we have been consistently pretty crap in the two/three years before and in the months after. Given that I think it’s fair to assume that last season was the anomaly and the other three seasons are the true standard.

20 minutes ago, itchen said:

I like Ralph but I recognise that, obviously, something has gone wrong and the usual footballing answer is to blame the guy in charge. But suppose we all agree that our slump in the last half of the season is down to Ralph. What then? 

We sack him and have to pay compensation for the remainder of his contract (which hardly anybody objected to renewing) and thus reduce our meagre budget still further. We then have to get in a new manager who would work for the relatively low wages and budget that Saints can offer.  We may get lucky and get a young, upcoming, ambitious manager who can make the best of our limited squad and any likely low-budget additions to it. I've no idea who that may be.  The ones often touted (Graham Potter, Eddie Howe) have both finished lower than us in the last couple of seasons.  But we may get unlucky and bring in someone like Pellegrino or Hughes who not only get dreadful results but play dreadful, boring football. At least Ralph gives us entertainment when it goes right.

So I think, in out current straitened circumstances, we have to stick with Ralph and hope that we can eventually build a squad who can deliver results in the way Ralph wants to play which, when it works, is great to watch.

 

This post and mine about quoting SKD sum up my position. 

I’m not interested in debating Ralph’s flaws because they’re quite plain to see so it’s pointless, but every manager has them and probably plenty more: Whoever comes next at whatever time that happens, there will be a thread here where we all complain about their flaws and mistakes. The idea that we’re gonna find some perfect manager in the future is one for the stars, especially given our record of recruitment.

[Mr X]

Ralph has been here two & half years basically and still doesn't have a clue what his best team is! still doesn't have a clue about tactical substitutions (the right player at the right time) still doesn't have a clue how to install any kind of grit & mental strength in players & has overseen our worst ever defeat not just once but twice plus numerous other thrash ins (3-0 plus) with the highest number of goals we've ever conceded in the premier league, losing 16 out of the last 20 games..... let that sink in  

[simo]

Punt on the St Johnstone manager anyone ?