Ralph Hasenhuttl

[JustinSFC]

Why can't he manage a game like that every game?

Even if we lose, he needs to be like that tonight in-game.

 

[Saint86]

2 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Why can't he manage a game like that every game?

Even if we lose, he needs to be like that tonight in-game.

 

The cynic in me would say its because he didn't think we could get anything and just wanted to avoid another drumming. Whereas if he thinks we can win he doesn't give any attention to keeping the goals against tally down 🙄

[SKD]

Credit to Ralph tonight, after the red card he managed it perfectly. 
 

Good performance, something to build on.

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, SKD said:

Credit to Ralph tonight, after the red card he managed it perfectly. 
 

Good performance, something to build on.

Well done to Ralph and you.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Proper performance tonight. First time we’ve defended properly for a while, so fair play to Ralph. However, let’s not too carried away, he did what Hodgson, Dyche, Bruce, Fat Sam have done for years. Made us hard to beat, and install a bit of fight. Let’s hope it continues to the end of the season. 

[Chapel End]

22 minutes ago, SKD said:

Credit to Ralph tonight, after the red card he managed it perfectly. 
 

Good performance, something to build on.

Blimey! 

That must have hurt but well done

[SKD]

2 minutes ago, Chapel End said:

Blimey! 

That must have hurt but well done

Nope, happy to be fair and credit where it’s due. 
 

the past 4 months have been pathetic, let’s hope today is a sign of things to come. 
 

it wasn’t pretty, but it was what was needed. That’s all I ask. 

[Saint Garrett]

Got it right tonight. The Armstrong / JWP partnership in the middle seems to be our best bet at the moment. Managed it very well. Well done Ralph. 
 

Players are clearly with him, and I think the majority of the fans still are too?! 

[SKD]

17 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Got it right tonight. The Armstrong / JWP partnership in the middle seems to be our best bet at the moment. Managed it very well. Well done Ralph. 
 

Players are clearly with him, and I think the majority of the fans still are too?! 

By the way, I got slagged off by @Chapel End for calling certain players ‘cancerous’ in the way their negative body language and approach impacts, effects and spreads into the whole team. 

Tonight, said players weren’t playing and we saw guts, fights and desire for the full 90 minutes, even when going a man down. 

A coincidence or maybe SKD isn’t just a troll after all...... 

[Østerrike]

Brilliant work Ralph has done vs. Leicester

 

[Nemi]

56 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

Got it right tonight. The Armstrong / JWP partnership in the middle seems to be our best bet at the moment. Managed it very well. Well done Ralph. 
 

Players are clearly with him, and I think the majority of the fans still are too?! 

We still could of very easily lost that game 2-1 and fans would of called for his head. Everything is still so reactive.

But 100%, I think the players are behind him, and although it has been a tough run hopefully the fans will be too. He is a young coach still and even he has a lot to learn; however, despite the tough season I think this club and all involved will come out of it for the better.

[Colinjb]

Finally a good result, but one maybe forced by necessity.

Ralph is not a pragmatist. That's why we lost 9-0 twice after an early red card. Today he was forced to change. Another absolute shellacking could have been a final straw, he had to adapt on the fly, he had to make us dig in.

There are lessons in how we played today, in not over-committing. Not expending all energy early doors. In building from the back not expending from the front we actually allowed an unexpected opportunity after our previous pattern of "good first half" failed through self implosion. (Yes, the red card was harsh, but not unprecedented.)

To be brought back into a 'Pro-Hassenhutl' mindset I need to see some variation in approach and pragmatism by choice going forward. He needs to be more intelligent.   

[Billy the Kidd]

5 hours ago, SKD said:

By the way, I got slagged off by @Chapel End for calling certain players ‘cancerous’ in the way their negative body language and approach impacts, effects and spreads into the whole team. 

Tonight, said players weren’t playing and we saw guts, fights and desire for the full 90 minutes, even when going a man down. 

A coincidence or maybe SKD isn’t just a troll after all...... 

I'd certainly agree about Bertrand, wanted him gone towards the tail end of last season as I thought he was in a fast decline.

It is always tough with players who are leaving, to be fair their performances do drop, there head is elsewhere and largely they dont want to get injured to ruin the next move. Which I understand on one point, but pretty ironic for Ings.

I still think he has tried, but think it got to his head and that has affected him, particularly since the contract stuff was in the media part way through the season.

I'm not sure it has affected Vestergard as much, he was always likely to have another brain fart sometime this season.

Still, I'd be surprised if any of them were here next season.

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, Colinjb said:

Finally a good result, but one maybe forced by necessity.

Ralph is not a pragmatist. That's why we lost 9-0 twice after an early red card. Today he was forced to change. Another absolute shellacking could have been a final straw, he had to adapt on the fly, he had to make us dig in.

There are lessons in how we played today, in not over-committing. Not expending all energy early doors. In building from the back not expending from the front we actually allowed an unexpected opportunity after our previous pattern of "good first half" failed through self implosion. (Yes, the red card was harsh, but not unprecedented.)

To be brought back into a 'Pro-Hassenhutl' mindset I need to see some variation in approach and pragmatism by choice going forward. He needs to be more intelligent.   

Good post.

 

Classic 10 men performance, 2 banks of 4 and try to pinch something on the break . Let’s see whether we’re tight and difficult to beat against Liverpool , or wether he’s going to go back to the tactical plan that’s caused so many problems lately. 

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Good post.

 

Classic 10 men performance, 2 banks of 4 and try to pinch something on the break . Let’s see whether we’re tight and difficult to beat against Liverpool , or wether he’s going to go back to the tactical plan that’s caused so many problems lately. 

Or the one that saw us beat Liverpool 1-0? Or the one that saw us beat City 1-0? If only we had a plan B eh? 

[Chapel End]

12 hours ago, SKD said:

By the way, I got slagged off by @Chapel End for calling certain players ‘cancerous’ in the way their negative body language and approach impacts, effects and spreads into the whole team. 

Tonight, said players weren’t playing and we saw guts, fights and desire for the full 90 minutes, even when going a man down. 

A coincidence or maybe SKD isn’t just a troll after all...... 

Just to clear up any confusion, i called you out for using the word cancerous in the context you used it in, very bad taste.

Your opinion of the players in question is different matter  

[Mr X]

Make no mistake last night was a great defensive performance we showed some grit & didn't just roll over when Leicester equalised.  Let's not get carried away till Ralph can prove we can build in it & not another false dawn where we return to no shows in the next game.  I would be happy to see KWP vesterguard (should he stay which looks unlikely) salisu & bednarek/Stephens on rotation form a defensive partnership 

Edited 1 May, 2021 by Mr X

[JustinSFC]

12 hours ago, SKD said:

By the way, I got slagged off by @Chapel End for calling certain players ‘cancerous’ in the way their negative body language and approach impacts, effects and spreads into the whole team. 

Tonight, said players weren’t playing and we saw guts, fights and desire for the full 90 minutes, even when going a man down. 

A coincidence or maybe SKD isn’t just a troll after all...... 

Agree with this.

Bertrand is such a drain on this team.

Bloke just moans the whole way through games, if he doesn't want to be here, he can fuck off and I wouldn't be one bit arsed if Ralph never gave him another minute.

He stops play aswell, countless times we've transitioned to attack and he stops and side foots it straight back.

[JustinSFC]

12 hours ago, Colinjb said:

To be brought back into a 'Pro-Hassenhutl' mindset I need to see some variation in approach and pragmatism by choice going forward. He needs to be more intelligent.   

He needs to be what we saw lastnight in every game, even if it ends in a loss.

I can take a loss, just not in the manner we have been, especially when they're avoidable.

[Østerrike]

Just now, JustinSFC said:

He needs to be what we saw lastnight in every game, even if it ends in a loss.

I can take a loss, just not in the manner we have been, especially when they're avoidable.

Not realistic though to show a great performance every week.. even if fighter spirit is going on it is still possible to lose 0:4.

[JustinSFC]

Just now, Østerrike said:

Not realistic though to show a great performance every week.. even if fighter spirit is going on it is still possible to lose 0:4.

I'm talking about Ralph and his decisions in game.

This is the premier League. He's paid millions a year. Being competent during games is literally what he's paid for and it's the bare minimum requisite, even if we still lose.

[Østerrike]

1 minute ago, JustinSFC said:

I'm talking about Ralph and his decisions in game.

This is the premier League. He's paid millions a year. Being competent during games is literally what he's paid for and it's the bare minimum requisite, even if we still lose.

Fine. And even if he has a huge contract and gets millions a year he is still a human, errors are possible.

and..... do you really think that every time the squad performed bad the coach made everything wrong? i do not necessarily see a correlation here. he takes the responsibilty, of course, but sometimes even good coaching does not result in a win/draw.

[Red]

3 minutes ago, Østerrike said:

Fine. And even if he has a huge contract and gets millions a year he is still a human, errors are possible.

and..... do you really think that every time the squad performed bad the coach made everything wrong? i do not necessarily see a correlation here. he takes the responsibilty, of course, but sometimes even good coaching does not result in a win/draw.

Still so many apologists for Ralph - it's unbelievable. He was forced into a change of tactic after the sending off (yes it was unmerited but that's a separate issue) and we did very well subsequently. Surprised he made the change as he has not done so previously (MU 9-0, Leicester 0-9 etc.)  Without the sending off we would have lost IMO.

Has he learnt from this to make us more difficult to score against first and then build from there? We'll see, but I'm not too hopeful, which is why I still think he needs to go.

[Noodles34]

34 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Agree with this.

Bertrand is such a drain on this team.

Bloke just moans the whole way through games, if he doesn't want to be here, he can fuck off and I wouldn't be one bit arsed if Ralph never gave him another minute.

He stops play aswell, countless times we've transitioned to attack and he stops and side foots it straight back.

He takes way too long with throw in as well 

[Lord Duckhunter]

16 minutes ago, Red said:

Still so many apologists for Ralph - it's unbelievable. He was forced into a change of tactic after the sending off (yes it was unmerited but that's a separate issue) and we did very well subsequently. Surprised he made the change as he has not done so previously (MU 9-0, Leicester 0-9 etc.)  Without the sending off we would have lost IMO.

Has he learnt from this to make us more difficult to score against first and then build from there? We'll see, but I'm not too hopeful, which is why I still think he needs to go.

To be fair you can’t really say “this would have happened” or “that would have happened”, we can only comment on what did actually happen. And Ralph did what he should have done weeks and weeks ago and tightened us up. To read some posters he put in a tactical masterpiece whereas the truth is he did what any competent manager would have done, and something he’s failed to do in other situations. I’m hopefully that it might dawn on him that there’s times and games where this approach is needed, that our back 4 is adequate when protected properly, and that a 0-0 result isn’t the worst thing in the world. 

[Østerrike]

37 minutes ago, Red said:

Still so many apologists for Ralph - it's unbelievable. He was forced into a change of tactic after the sending off (yes it was unmerited but that's a separate issue) and we did very well subsequently. Surprised he made the change as he has not done so previously (MU 9-0, Leicester 0-9 etc.)  Without the sending off we would have lost IMO.

Has he learnt from this to make us more difficult to score against first and then build from there? We'll see, but I'm not too hopeful, which is why I still think he needs to go.

Always easy to criticise from an outside perspective.

[MarkSFC]

1 hour ago, Østerrike said:

Always easy to criticise from an outside perspective.

Probably the only perspective he has. He is entitled to voice his opinion. Why not debate rather than taking the easy option of just trolling. 

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Red said:

Still so many apologists for Ralph - it's unbelievable. He was forced into a change of tactic after the sending off (yes it was unmerited but that's a separate issue) and we did very well subsequently. Surprised he made the change as he has not done so previously (MU 9-0, Leicester 0-9 etc.)  Without the sending off we would have lost IMO.

Has he learnt from this to make us more difficult to score against first and then build from there? We'll see, but I'm not too hopeful, which is why I still think he needs to go.

That s because he is not a bad manager.

Some people actually see beyond a poor run of form.

Like it or not he ishere to stay and i m perfectly fine with that

[Mr X]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

To be fair you can’t really say “this would have happened” or “that would have happened”, we can only comment on what did actually happen. And Ralph did what he should have done weeks and weeks ago and tightened us up. To read some posters he put in a tactical masterpiece whereas the truth is he did what any competent manager would have done, and something he’s failed to do in other situations. I’m hopefully that it might dawn on him that there’s times and games where this approach is needed, that our back 4 is adequate when protected properly, and that a 0-0 result isn’t the worst thing in the world. 

This is key to me, RH simply did the basics last night to allow us to defend us a unit and grind out a result there was nothing revolutionary about it, the real test will be wether he can learn from it or will he revert back to his usual happ hazard approach of tippy tappy backwards passing and mind boggling substitutions 

[JustinSFC]

2 hours ago, Noodles34 said:

He takes way too long with throw in as well 

That drives me mental with him.

Why do we never get anyone else on throws?

He fucks around for an eternity then chucks it 3ft ahead of him usually to nobody.

And while I'm at it, why he keeps going up for every free kick is beyond me cos Prowse is never going to let him have one in a meaningful position on the pitch.

You can see prowse almost saying "fuck off mate I'm having it".
 

Edited 1 May, 2021 by JustinSFC

[The Cat]

12 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Why do we never get anyone else on throws?

Full backs take the overwhelming majority of throws. Only times it's ever really different is if someone takes a quick one or you have some dude who can wang it into the area. 

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

44 minutes ago, stevy777_x said:

That s because he is not a bad manager.

Some people actually see beyond a poor run of form.

Like it or not he ishere to stay and i m perfectly fine with that

It’s 2 poor runs of form actually taking into account the poor start last season and the second run has been even worse than the first and is on track to be our worst run of form in the Prem ever. He’s already got the records for worst loss (9-0 – twice) and worst run of losses (6 in a row earlier this season) and looks like we’re going to have conceded 60+ goals for the third season in a row under him showing that his tactics do leave us open defensively.

Even with the good run earlier this season you can take a closer look at our results – out of our 10 wins 7 have been against teams currently below us in the table (Sheffield x 2, Burnley x 2, West Brom, Newcastle, Brighton) another currently in the bottom half (Aston Villa) and the others against Everton (who had a player sent off) and a Liverpool team who had Fabinho and Henderson as their 2 centre backs. I’ll admit that’s a slightly negative way of looking at things and it’s the points that really matter and not how you get them, but the idea that we were at any point world beaters or could beat anyone or our day doesn’t really apply this season either.

Thing is I don’t think he is a bad manager and he has had some things that have restricted him this season – that run of 6 losses was during the height of our injury crisis where we were missing the likes of KWP, Bertrand, Romeu, Vestergaard, Djenepo and Salisu for example. On the flip side we should have been getting results against the likes of Newcastle, Brighton and West Brom once our players were coming back which we failed to do.

I don’t expect the upcoming Liverpool match to shed any more light on things but the following games against Palace and Fulham should give us a better idea of where we are actually at.

You’re welcome to your opinion that he is the right man for us going forward but given all the evidence available I’d like to think people could see why some of us have reservations about him and that a change could be better for us if things don’t improve before the end of the season.

[JustinSFC]

54 minutes ago, The Cat said:

Full backs take the overwhelming majority of throws. Only times it's ever really different is if someone takes a quick one or you have some dude who can wang it into the area. 

Not that we saw much of him but Danso had a hell of a chuck on him.

Salisu can lob it aswell.

[The Cat]

37 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Not that we saw much of him but Danso had a hell of a chuck on him.

Salisu can lob it aswell.

Talking about long throws gives me an excuse to mention the time I went in the away end at Fratton to watch Tranmere play Pompey and Dave Challinor launched a throw into the box from near the halfway line which was bundled in for a very undeserved injury time equaliser. I was spotted on late night Meridian News by Pompey fans at work celebrating behind the goal which was most enjoyable.

 

 

[Saint86]

On 01/05/2021 at 15:50, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

It’s 2 poor runs of form actually taking into account the poor start last season and the second run has been even worse than the first and is on track to be our worst run of form in the Prem ever. He’s already got the records for worst loss (9-0 – twice) and worst run of losses (6 in a row earlier this season) and looks like we’re going to have conceded 60+ goals for the third season in a row under him showing that his tactics do leave us open defensively.

Even with the good run earlier this season you can take a closer look at our results – out of our 10 wins 7 have been against teams currently below us in the table (Sheffield x 2, Burnley x 2, West Brom, Newcastle, Brighton) another currently in the bottom half (Aston Villa) and the others against Everton (who had a player sent off) and a Liverpool team who had Fabinho and Henderson as their 2 centre backs. I’ll admit that’s a slightly negative way of looking at things and it’s the points that really matter and not how you get them, but the idea that we were at any point world beaters or could beat anyone or our day doesn’t really apply this season either.

Thing is I don’t think he is a bad manager and he has had some things that have restricted him this season – that run of 6 losses was during the height of our injury crisis where we were missing the likes of KWP, Bertrand, Romeu, Vestergaard, Djenepo and Salisu for example. On the flip side we should have been getting results against the likes of Newcastle, Brighton and West Brom once our players were coming back which we failed to do.

I don’t expect the upcoming Liverpool match to shed any more light on things but the following games against Palace and Fulham should give us a better idea of where we are actually at.

You’re welcome to your opinion that he is the right man for us going forward but given all the evidence available I’d like to think people could see why some of us have reservations about him and that a change could be better for us if things don’t improve before the end of the season.

I find that I disagree with a fair few parts of this. If we finish around 15/16th then keeping him or sacking him are both guesswork (i.e. more evidence required / could go either way) and not based on a fair review of the evidence surely (imo)? Not unless you think Saints have a right to be top half having played a fair chunk of the winter with circa 12/13 fit "first team quality" players?

You say he's had two poor runs? Yeah that's fair obviously. But he also got Saints to the top of the prem for the first time ever, and over a 38 game stretch had us sitting top 4.... So to term your review as "Slightly negative" is the understatement of the year imo. You've basically ignored anything good he's done 😆!

The fact is that he's had to sell players to buy others, resulting in bugger all net spend, and a series of poor quality legacy players that he can't shift - The baulk of the team are not signings made by him, and those players were in danger of relegation since Puel - long before RH even came along? And under Ralph we've been clear of relegation for the past 2 seasons. I'd also say that his signings have been fairly decent. Che is useful for the money, KWP is a cracking buy, Salisu looks a propsect etc.

Don't get me wrong. If we do finish the season poorly and drop lower in the table, then there is an argument to be made for not keeping him - and i totally get this view from a lot of our fans. I still remain on the "keep ralph" side of the line because i think i take a broader view of his management and can look past the recent run - although if continues with us dropping to only finish a few points above the relegation zone i suspect i'd be on the other side. However, the reality is that to make that decision as it stands, it would be a choice based on a broad emotional unhappiness at Saints' overall quality, paired with a gut feeling that another manger can come in and get more than Ralph - Who himself is better than Puel, Pellegrino, and Hughes? It really would be little more than a gut shot imo.

As it stands, to actually justify sacking him would require people to highly weight the awful run of form/injuries/refereeing decisions we've had this season, whilst simultaneously basically ignoring the very impressive runs we've been on. And i have zero doubt that if we hadn't had the injuries and/or ref decisions we've had this year, we would be a lot higher in the table. Ditto, if we had had greater first team quality squad depth we would be higher in the table - and this is down to the club's finances. None of those things are on this manager. You could perhaps try to make a case on the injury front. But by the time that materialised we had very little prep time between matches and a severely diminished squad. I don't think it is overly reasonable to expect us to have successfully and significantly changed style with everything else going on.

So saying to sack him based on the recent poor run which has been governed by a congested set of fixtures, small squad (compounded by significant ongoing injuries), limited prep time, and awful refereeing "luck"? Its not yet justified for me. And i do think there is a significant argument to be made for the fact that Saints play a high tempo press game, have had a very small squad, and the players just haven't had sufficient rest between games - they must be jaded imo.

If we finish where we are now, it will come down to how twitchy the upper management are? Do they wait and see if the summer break and transfer window can refresh the squad? Or do they think he's had his time and boot him? I would say that given finances and the general uncertainty in football, we are going to keep him unless we really do finish just above the relegation spots. But, at the time of writing i remain happy to keep him and think he'll come good again with another summer. Although what the squad will look like after we lose Ings and Bertrand, possibly vestergard, and after trying to mitigate the covid losses -  well i have no idea!

Ultimately what is the real Hassenhuttle? Is he very run based? Is he the guy who got a fully fit saints playing fantastic football, beat man city in project restart, and had us sitting at the top of the league? (Do some fans view this as just luck?) Or is RH the guy that's barely won any points in 2021 - and is that his fault or is it down to other circumstances? Surely on the balance of fairness, he's carrying more credit than debt even now?

Edited 4 May, 2021 by Saint86

[captainchris]

On 01/05/2021 at 12:58, Østerrike said:

Fine. And even if he has a huge contract and gets millions a year he is still a human, errors are possible.

and..... do you really think that every time the squad performed bad the coach made everything wrong? i do not necessarily see a correlation here. he takes the responsibilty, of course, but sometimes even good coaching does not result in a win/draw.

True but it helps a hell of a lot ... 

[Hayling Saint]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I find that I disagree with a fair few parts of this. If we finish around 15/16th then keeping him or sacking him are both guesswork (i.e. more evidence required / could go either way) and not based on a fair review of the evidence surely (imo)? Not unless you think Saints have a right to be top half having played a fair chunk of the winter with circa 12/13 fit "first team quality" players?

You say he's had two poor runs? Yeah that's fair obviously. But he also got Saints to the top of the prem for the first time ever, and over a 38 game stretch had us sitting top 4.... So to term your review as "Slightly negative" is the understatement of the year imo. You've basically ignored anything good he's done 😆!

The fact is that he's had to sell players to buy others, resulting in bugger all net spend, and a series of poor quality legacy players that he can't shift - The baulk of the team are not signings made by him, and those players were in danger of relegation since Puel - long before RH even came along? And under Ralph we've been clear of relegation for the past 2 seasons. I'd also say that his signings have been fairly decent. Che is useful for the money, KWP is a cracking buy, Salisu looks a propsect etc.

Don't get me wrong. If we do finish the season poorly and drop lower in the table, then there is an argument to be made for not keeping him - and i totally get this view from a lot of our fans. I still remain on the "keep ralph" side of the line because i think i take a broader view of his management and can look past the recent run - although if continues with us dropping to only finish a few points above the relegation zone i suspect i'd be on the other side. However, the reality is that to make that decision as it stands, it would be a choice based on a broad emotional unhappiness at Saints' overall quality, paired with a gut feeling that another manger can come in and get more than Ralph - Who himself is better than Puel, Pellegrino, and Hughes? It really would be little more than a gut shot imo.

As it stands, to actually justify sacking him would require people to highly weight the awful run of form/injuries/refereeing decisions we've had this season, whilst simultaneously basically ignoring the very impressive runs we've been on. And i have zero doubt that if we hadn't had the injuries and/or ref decisions we've had this year, we would be a lot higher in the table. Ditto, if we had had greater first team quality squad depth we would be higher in the table - and this is down to the club's finances. None of those things are on this manager. You could perhaps try to make a case on the injury front. But by the time that materialised we had very little prep time between matches and a severely diminished squad. I don't think it is overly reasonable to expect us to have successfully and significantly changed style with everything else going on.

So saying to sack him based on the recent poor run which has been governed by a congested set of fixtures, small squad (compounded by significant ongoing injuries), limited prep time, and awful refereeing "luck"? Its not yet justified for me. And i do think there is a significant argument to be made for the fact that Saints play a high tempo press game, have had a very small squad, and the players just haven't had sufficient rest between games - they must be jaded imo.

If we finish where we are now, it will come down to how twitchy the upper management are? Do they wait and see if the summer break and transfer window can refresh the squad? Or do they think he's had his time and boot him? I would say that given finances and the general uncertainty in football, we are going to keep him unless we really do finish just above the relegation spots. But, at the time of writing i remain happy to keep him and think he'll come good again with another summer. Although what the squad will look like after we lose Ings and Bertrand, possibly vestergard, and after trying to mitigate the covid losses -  well i have no idea!

Ultimately what is the real Hassenhuttle? Is he very run based? Is he the guy who got a fully fit saints playing fantastic football, beat man city in project restart, and had us sitting at the top of the league? (Do some fans view this as just luck?) Or is RH the guy that's barely won any points in 2021 - and is that his fault or is it down to other circumstances? Surely on the balance of fairness, he's carrying more credit than debt even now?

Very good post and fully agree!

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

3 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Don't get me wrong. If we do finish the season poorly and drop lower in the table, then there is an argument to be made for not keeping him - and i totally get this view from a lot of our fans. I still remain on the "keep ralph" side of the line because i think i take a broader view of his management and can look past the recent run - although if continues with us dropping to only finish a few points above the relegation zone i suspect i'd be on the other side.

Funnily enough despite the things we disagree on, this has been my position throughout anyway - i've never said i've wanted Ralph out, the good runs of form have certainly given him enough good will to allow for a bad run of form but a continuation of form this bad until the end of the season for me brings into serious question whether he is the right man for the job despite his previous good performance and whether he should be allowed another transfer window to turn it around.

I guess I just believe that more responsibility falls on the manager than others do, that many issues plaguing us have also had to be handled by other teams, that these players have shown they can get results previously and that a run of form this bad can't simply be put down to outside factors alone. My analysis is not meant to minimize the positive impact Ralph has had on us previously, simply to just highlight the situation we are currently in as a lot of it simply seems to be downplayed or whitewashed completely due to previous performance rather than accepting that there might be deeper ongoing issues at play.

The club have backed him throughout and the players still seem to be behind him and with us now practically safe I don't see us making a change in the summer regardless of how the rest of the season pans out, but to just write off this season as an 'anomaly' rather than taking a thorough look at our problems would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

[Saint86]

 

1 hour ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Funnily enough despite the things we disagree on, this has been my position throughout anyway - i've never said i've wanted Ralph out, the good runs of form have certainly given him enough good will to allow for a bad run of form but a continuation of form this bad until the end of the season for me brings into serious question whether he is the right man for the job despite his previous good performance and whether he should be allowed another transfer window to turn it around.

I guess I just believe that more responsibility falls on the manager than others do, that many issues plaguing us have also had to be handled by other teams, that these players have shown they can get results previously and that a run of form this bad can't simply be put down to outside factors alone. My analysis is not meant to minimize the positive impact Ralph has had on us previously, simply to just highlight the situation we are currently in as a lot of it simply seems to be downplayed or whitewashed completely due to previous performance rather than accepting that there might be deeper ongoing issues at play.

The club have backed him throughout and the players still seem to be behind him and with us now practically safe I don't see us making a change in the summer regardless of how the rest of the season pans out, but to just write off this season as an 'anomaly' rather than taking a thorough look at our problems would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

Sorry if I slightly misunderstood your meaning, i think your "slightly negative" summary and the tone of your last paragraph persuaded me you were already saying he should be out. But yes in short, I think we agree on his current position but arrive at it from opposite perspectives - I.e. Ultimately the jury's out on whether he should go this summer, but they're likely to find in his favour at the moment.

1 hour ago, Hayling Saint said:

Very good post and fully agree!

 Hah cheers. Got one right eventually! 🙈 

Edited 4 May, 2021 by Saint86

[WALK DMC]

2 hours ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Funnily enough despite the things we disagree on, this has been my position throughout anyway - i've never said i've wanted Ralph out, the good runs of form have certainly given him enough good will to allow for a bad run of form but a continuation of form this bad until the end of the season for me brings into serious question whether he is the right man for the job despite his previous good performance and whether he should be allowed another transfer window to turn it around.

I guess I just believe that more responsibility falls on the manager than others do, that many issues plaguing us have also had to be handled by other teams, that these players have shown they can get results previously and that a run of form this bad can't simply be put down to outside factors alone. My analysis is not meant to minimize the positive impact Ralph has had on us previously, simply to just highlight the situation we are currently in as a lot of it simply seems to be downplayed or whitewashed completely due to previous performance rather than accepting that there might be deeper ongoing issues at play.

The club have backed him throughout and the players still seem to be behind him and with us now practically safe I don't see us making a change in the summer regardless of how the rest of the season pans out, but to just write off this season as an 'anomaly' rather than taking a thorough look at our problems would be a huge mistake in my opinion.

I'm in the give Ralph a few months of the next season camp, but understand why some people want him out immediately. 

I thought that your assessment explaining your rationale and balanced viewpoint was a really good posting. While I don't fully agree with your conclusions it is good to see that it is possible to have alternative views on here without resorting to name calling; thanks for expressing your position so clearly. As you say, it will be interesting to see if we learn something from the last season rather than dismissing it as a one-off.

[Jimbo]

Pros

• When things have gone well, we look really good (and 2020 record was fantastic)
• Improved a number of our players initially and willing to play the youth
• Done better than the last few managers

Cons

• No plan B within games / Needs to adapt Plan A from the outset, as it has gone stale and been figured out.
• Struggles to impact the poor runs through raising morale/confidence.  
• Some baffling transfer decisions - e.g. no full back cover

Think I would stick with the status quo: another season, churn a few players out and bring a few replacements in. Would like to see him with a few more signings under his belt, and some squad depth

[Mr X]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

I find that I disagree with a fair few parts of this. If we finish around 15/16th then keeping him or sacking him are both guesswork (i.e. more evidence required / could go either way) and not based on a fair review of the evidence surely (imo)? Not unless you think Saints have a right to be top half having played a fair chunk of the winter with circa 12/13 fit "first team quality" players?

You say he's had two poor runs? Yeah that's fair obviously. But he also got Saints to the top of the prem for the first time ever, and over a 38 game stretch had us sitting top 4.... So to term your review as "Slightly negative" is the understatement of the year imo. You've basically ignored anything good he's done 😆!

The fact is that he's had to sell players to buy others, resulting in bugger all net spend, and a series of poor quality legacy players that he can't shift - The baulk of the team are not signings made by him, and those players were in danger of relegation since Puel - long before RH even came along? And under Ralph we've been clear of relegation for the past 2 seasons. I'd also say that his signings have been fairly decent. Che is useful for the money, KWP is a cracking buy, Salisu looks a propsect etc.

Don't get me wrong. If we do finish the season poorly and drop lower in the table, then there is an argument to be made for not keeping him - and i totally get this view from a lot of our fans. I still remain on the "keep ralph" side of the line because i think i take a broader view of his management and can look past the recent run - although if continues with us dropping to only finish a few points above the relegation zone i suspect i'd be on the other side. However, the reality is that to make that decision as it stands, it would be a choice based on a broad emotional unhappiness at Saints' overall quality, paired with a gut feeling that another manger can come in and get more than Ralph - Who himself is better than Puel, Pellegrino, and Hughes? It really would be little more than a gut shot imo.

As it stands, to actually justify sacking him would require people to highly weight the awful run of form/injuries/refereeing decisions we've had this season, whilst simultaneously basically ignoring the very impressive runs we've been on. And i have zero doubt that if we hadn't had the injuries and/or ref decisions we've had this year, we would be a lot higher in the table. Ditto, if we had had greater first team quality squad depth we would be higher in the table - and this is down to the club's finances. None of those things are on this manager. You could perhaps try to make a case on the injury front. But by the time that materialised we had very little prep time between matches and a severely diminished squad. I don't think it is overly reasonable to expect us to have successfully and significantly changed style with everything else going on.

So saying to sack him based on the recent poor run which has been governed by a congested set of fixtures, small squad (compounded by significant ongoing injuries), limited prep time, and awful refereeing "luck"? Its not yet justified for me. And i do think there is a significant argument to be made for the fact that Saints play a high tempo press game, have had a very small squad, and the players just haven't had sufficient rest between games - they must be jaded imo.

If we finish where we are now, it will come down to how twitchy the upper management are? Do they wait and see if the summer break and transfer window can refresh the squad? Or do they think he's had his time and boot him? I would say that given finances and the general uncertainty in football, we are going to keep him unless we really do finish just above the relegation spots. But, at the time of writing i remain happy to keep him and think he'll come good again with another summer. Although what the squad will look like after we lose Ings and Bertrand, possibly vestergard, and after trying to mitigate the covid losses -  well i have no idea!

Ultimately what is the real Hassenhuttle? Is he very run based? Is he the guy who got a fully fit saints playing fantastic football, beat man city in project restart, and had us sitting at the top of the league? (Do some fans view this as just luck?) Or is RH the guy that's barely won any points in 2021 - and is that his fault or is it down to other circumstances? Surely on the balance of fairness, he's carrying more credit than debt even now?

This seems fair however is RH really better than puel results wise? Or are you talking purely in terms of style? 

[TWar]

53 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Pros

• When things have gone well, we look really good (and 2020 record was fantastic)
• Improved a number of our players initially and willing to play the youth
• Done better than the last few managers

Cons

• No plan B within games / Needs to adapt Plan A from the outset, as it has gone stale and been figured out.
• Struggles to impact the poor runs through raising morale/confidence.  
• Some baffling transfer decisions - e.g. no full back cover

Think I would stick with the status quo: another season, churn a few players out and bring a few replacements in. Would like to see him with a few more signings under his belt, and some squad depth

I doubt he has much say over the transfer decisions beyond making his desires known. He gets what the club buy for him and it's no secret that he asked for fullback cover, they just couldn't secure it.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

30 minutes ago, TWar said:

I doubt he has much say over the transfer decisions beyond making his desires known. He gets what the club buy for him and it's no secret that he asked for fullback cover, they just couldn't secure it.

This is always the big unknown but I'm sure a guy as meticulous as Ralph will be obsessively watching videos of the players the scouts identify and making clear if he doesn't want them. The club won't always be able to pull off the transfers but I think he'll be heavily involved in deciding which targets they go for.

He's at the very least a vital cog in the transfer process, and I think it is showing

[TWar]

17 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

This is always the big unknown but I'm sure a guy as meticulous as Ralph will be obsessively watching videos of the players the scouts identify and making clear if he doesn't want them. The club won't always be able to pull off the transfers but I think he'll be heavily involved in deciding which targets they go for.

He's at the very least a vital cog in the transfer process, and I think it is showing

Yeah as I said I think he has preferences and I would be very surprised if he didn't get listened to. I was more saying that if we don't manage to sign someone it is unlikely the buck stops at him. When it comes to negotiating and pursuing it very much is not him haggling most likely. It was in response to someone listing as one of his negatives that we didn't sign a fullback which seems unfair.

Edited 4 May, 2021 by TWar

[Ex Lion Tamer]

23 minutes ago, TWar said:

Yeah as I said I think he has preferences and I would be very surprised if he didn't get listened to. I was more saying that if we don't manage to sign someone it is unlikely the buck stops at him. When it comes to negotiating and pursuing it very much is not him haggling most likely.

Ah right, sorry, we agree then. Although I wouldn't totally absolve him on the full back front to be honest - he could have insisted we have an easy option a la Cuco Martina as a back up to get us to the end of the season. It seems like we only looked at quality

Edited 4 May, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Kermitzasaint]

On 01/05/2021 at 19:58, Østerrike said:

Fine. And even if he has a huge contract and gets millions a year he is still a human, errors are possible.

and..... do you really think that every time the squad performed bad the coach made everything wrong? i do not necessarily see a correlation here. he takes the responsibilty, of course, but sometimes even good coaching does not result in a win/draw.

Ralph never takes responsibility after a poor performance. He never has. He refuses to learn from his continual mistakes.

Scraping a draw with 10 men does not make him the messiah. Other lower prem coaches manage it every season.

Our team statistics should be enough reason to sack him.

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Ralph never takes responsibility after a poor performance. He never has. He refuses to learn from his continual mistakes.

Scraping a draw with 10 men does not make him the messiah. Other lower prem coaches manage it every season.

Our team statistics should be enough reason to sack him.

"That was one of the tough ones tonight. The performance was a disaster today and I have to apologise and take 100% responsibility"

I'll let you guess the game ^_^

[SKD]

13 hours ago, Kermitzasaint said:

Ralph never takes responsibility after a poor performance. He never has. He refuses to learn from his continual mistakes.

Scraping a draw with 10 men does not make him the messiah. Other lower prem coaches manage it every season.

Our team statistics should be enough reason to sack him.

Not the Messiah, but it seems after 2 9-0 hammering’s and an appalling run, he’s finally learning. 
 

Let’s hope it’s the start. 

[Disco Stu]

I still feel an indifference towards Ralph at the moment but him admitting to his mistakes and making a quick change in our last game shows perhaps he is learning and that's a good start.