Ralph Hasenhuttl

[SKD]

Just now, Billy the Kidd said:

Fair enough, and I can see why you say that. I just see there is some and want to see what the window does for us.

I guess opinions are like arseholes 😉

No I agree. I did, up until recently, think Ralph was the right man at the wrong time. 
 

I thought with a better, bigger squad (I.e a tottenham or Chelsea) he’d do a great job. However, these past 2 months or so have really worried me. 
 

A good ‘coach’ not a good ‘manager’ is how I’d say it. If he’s willing to shuffle the back room staff to give us something fresh and some new ideas (and some help for Ralph), then I wouldn’t be against him staying past the summer. That being said, I don’t see that happening either. 
 

Worse case for us is building a squad that Ralph wants and then pulling the trigger 10 games in and being over stocked in certain areas, under in others (thinking CM if new man wants to try 433, say)

[egg]

15 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I'd hope you tried to help the once good employee to get back to their previous performance rather than cut them off like a cancer. 

You're a sweet man, touching. In the real world, the shit employee gets canned. 

[Billy the Kidd]

Just now, SKD said:

No I agree. I did, up until recently, think Ralph was the right man at the wrong time. 
 

I thought with a better, bigger squad (I.e a tottenham or Chelsea) he’d do a great job. However, these past 2 months or so have really worried me. 
 

A good ‘coach’ not a good ‘manager’ is how I’d say it. If he’s willing to shuffle the back room staff to give us something fresh and some new ideas (and some help for Ralph), then I wouldn’t be against him staying past the summer. That being said, I don’t see that happening either. 
 

Worse case for us is building a squad that Ralph wants and then pulling the trigger 10 games in and being over stocked in certain areas, under in others (thinking CM if new man wants to try 433, say)

Yeah, I've also thought about him being here at the wrong time, but I also wonder if it is such a problem if he grows with us. If that happens, we will have bumps in the road. 

And maybe it's a guy feeling, I think season will be good. If not, I hope we dont fuck up like you've suggested.

[Nemi]

18 minutes ago, egg said:

This is a daft stance. If I have an employee who was once decent but who's not cutting it anymore, I don't cling onto them just in case the replacement is no better. 

A simple manager change may not make a positive difference, but we won't know unless we try but nobody is convincing me that after 15 points in 20 games, that Ralph can simply turn it around. 

What is daft is comparing a singular employee to the performance of a whole football club comprising of hundreds of people.

One of his flaws is that our form has been very on and off under him. But even at his worst point has us in a better position than the last two managers. And our position roughly reflects the ability of our squad. We’re probably not going to turn it round this year. It’s not that simple.

Even the very best managers go through pretty low patches. Klopp is struggling right now, Pep did last season. Is crazy to assume that a manger like Hasenhuttl won’t go through a few very low points too.

 

[Billy the Kidd]

1 minute ago, egg said:

You're a sweet man, touching. In the real world, the shit employee gets canned. 

Well, I wouldn't want you to be my boss, and in the real world, your way doesn't always happen very often. Not where I've worked, anyhow.

And yep, I think I we are just fundamentally different.

[egg]

1 minute ago, Billy the Kidd said:

Well, I wouldn't want you to be my boss, and in the real world, your way doesn't always happen very often. Not where I've worked, anyhow.

And yep, I think I we are just fundamentally different.

We agree on that 👍

[Billy the Kidd]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I was discussing Ralph on the train home today. I said to the bloke across the aisle that I thought he’d done a pretty average job and was overrated by a lot of our fan base. The bloke I was talking to agreed, then the rest of the carriage gave me a round of applause. 
 

I had a bacon sandwich for breakfast. 

I think you try to act sensationalist for effect. Keep it up,  it can be entertaining at times. Although I'm disappointed you gave no details of your route. This makes me think you made it up.

Edited 26 April, 2021 by Billy the Kidd

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 minutes ago, Nemi said:

 

Even the very best managers go through pretty low patches. Klopp is struggling right now, Pep did last season. Is crazy to assume that a manger like Hasenhuttl won’t go through a few very low points too.

 

Klopp won the Champions league and gave them their first English title for 30 years, Pep won the league and the treble. Ralph took us to the giddy heights of 11th, lower than Poch, Koeman or Puel did. They’re the best manager the clubs have had in years, Ralph is a bit better than Mark Hughes. 

[pimpin4rizeal]

19 minutes ago, woodsaint1 said:

Who would we honestly replace Ralph with if we ever took that decision in the next 3-6 months (although I dont think we will). Given the profile/age/style of manager we would likely pursue, the 3 obvious contenders closer to home would be -

Eddie Howe - did wonders at Bournemouth with little resources. But when given the financial backing, ultimately failed with signings like Ibe, Solanke etc. Not convinced at all.

Thomas Frank - would only be considered if Brentford didnt get promotion. But then we would be taking a risk with a manager whose only top flight experience is a few seasons with Brondby and failed to get Brentford promoted when they looked odds on for two consecutive seasons.

Frank Lampard - could we tempt him back into management? Not convinced as I think he would want a higher profile job. Again took a 6th place Derby back to 6th place and missed out in the playoff final. Despite being heavily backed by Abramovich and a getting off to a bright start, it tailed off badly.

I've no idea who the promising managers across Europe currently are, but I'm sure there would be a few on our radar. Hopefully not another Pellegrino mistake though.

Answers on a postcard from those looking to see the back of Ralph on who we would realistically look to bring in as a replacement to genuinely improve us.

Lampard could be great imo, high iq super hard working as a player, commands respect, and think you have to cut him a bit of slack with Chelsea as he had to gel a ton of new signings.. very much simular profile to hoddle when he joined us..

as for him seeking a higher profile job don’t think he’s really in that place at the moment he’s failed at Chelsea so none of the other big clubs will be so keen now.. and the likes of Everton West Ham and Leicester are all doing great with decent managers so we would be a decent club for him to bounce back and rebuild his reputation 

Edited 26 April, 2021 by pimpin4rizeal

[Nemi]

30 minutes ago, SKD said:

Why is there this theory on here that absolutely no one out there would be interested in us and be able to do a better job than Ralph. Why is it seemingly impossible to some on here that we’d find a new Ralph, Poch koeman etc. 

1 person who would 100% do a better job than Ralph, but they won’t be liked Because they’re not be a hispster trendy choice, is Big Sam. Not my choice, I think there are probably long term better choices on the continent, but short term if PL survival is the goal, he’d almost guarantee that. 

It’s a lot easier to convince a Pochettino or a Koeman to a team that’s consistently been improving, with solid investment, a decent squad and an academy in healthy shape. We had that back in 2014. We don’t have much going for us now.

Who are these Koemans and Pochettinos?

 

[Nemi]

1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Klopp won the Champions league and gave them their first English title for 30 years, Pep won the league and the treble. Ralph took us to the giddy heights of 11th, lower than Poch, Koeman or Puel did. They’re the best manager the clubs have had in years, Ralph is a bit better than Mark Hughes. 

Ok, I’m really gonna have to explain to you that nowhere did I compare their abilities I just said if even Klopp and Guardiola go through bad spells it’s hardly unexpected that a manager of Hasenhuttl’s level will also go through bad spells. 
 

I’m not sure why you found that so difficult to understand.

[nta786]

2 hours ago, CB Fry said:

But that story has only become the dominant narrative now we're doing terribly under Ralph.

The post summer transfer window feeling was the team was strengthened and the general predictions going into the season was solid mid table.

Then we had threads about winning the league in the Autumn.

Pretty much no one was saying we were heading into a relegation battle, or that the rot has set in etc etc.

At the beginning of this season, Ralph "inherited" a team that finished eleventh. Not Pellegrino's team, not Puel's. His. A team that finished 11th  with no major departures (PEH expendable) and some additions of his choosing.

I agree partly with what you are saying but let's rewind back to November 2020 when we were doing well etc etc

Imagine someone posting at that time 'we are going to be in a relegation battle' / 'the rot has set in' ; you would be called a wind up merchant or similar.

A fair few (ignoring the "elephant in the castle") did acknowledge that we would revert to type and that our run was simply good form than anything consistent.

No one envisaged our form to drop off like a cliff, not to the extent that it has in 2021 anyway. I think questions do need to be asked of Ralph for the last 6-8 games for sure, but I don't understand why when we were doing so well some of us were expected to predict that this team would suddenly become so hopeless and misfiring.

[egg]

16 minutes ago, Nemi said:

What is daft is comparing a singular employee to the performance of a whole football club comprising of hundreds of people.

One of his flaws is that our form has been very on and off under him. But even at his worst point has us in a better position than the last two managers. And our position roughly reflects the ability of our squad. We’re probably not going to turn it round this year. It’s not that simple.

Even the very best managers go through pretty low patches. Klopp is struggling right now, Pep did last season. Is crazy to assume that a manger like Hasenhuttl won’t go through a few very low points too.

 

A few?!?! We've been rock bottom of the form table for 20 games. That's almost 2/3 of a season. It's not a rough patch, it's an epic slide. 

On the other point, you absolutely have to judge an employee on his individual performance. He's the first team manager / coach and is doing a poor job of it. The excuses are getting more ridiculous now. 

[egg]

24 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I had a bacon sandwich for breakfast. 

I had an egg. I like an egg. 

[nta786]

59 minutes ago, SKD said:

Why is there this theory on here that absolutely no one out there would be interested in us and be able to do a better job than Ralph. Why is it seemingly impossible to some on here that we’d find a new Ralph, Poch koeman etc. 

I point you to the below image- do you really trust our club to find/appoint a suitable replacement? Because in my mind I have no doubt if Ralph went we would go for a left field appointment like Remi Garde or Pepe Mel or even Felix Magath or similar - despite the other unemployed names currently out there.

This is of course subject to debate, but from the 19 players we have bought in the past 4.5yrs, around 7 to 9 have been okay buys.

I'll tell you now that I live in hope that Ralph can find a tune out of these players again, it's the tried and tested (and currently backfiring) option over the unknown. 

Edited 26 April, 2021 by nta786

[Lord Duckhunter]

24 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Ok, I’m really gonna have to explain to you that nowhere did I compare their abilities I just said if even Klopp and Guardiola go through bad spells it’s hardly unexpected that a manager of Hasenhuttl’s level will also go through bad spells. 
 

I’m not sure why you found that so difficult to understand.

Klopp and pep have proved themselves at their clubs, it’s clearly a blip. This bloke hasn’t, 11th last season, worse this. Is it a bad spell, or is he a poor manger. It’s looking to me like  he’s an average manager. 
 

im not sure why you find that so difficult to understand. 

[Nemi]

11 minutes ago, egg said:

A few?!?! We've been rock bottom of the form table for 20 games. That's almost 2/3 of a season. It's not a rough patch, it's an epic slide. 

On the other point, you absolutely have to judge an employee on his individual performance. He's the first team manager / coach and is doing a poor job of it. The excuses are getting more ridiculous now. 

Away from the semantics of how I worded it, we haven’t slid at all. We’ve been a poor team for years and years now and that hasn’t changed. We’re still in a better position from when he took over. The only place we’ve slid from is a good run off form - our only good run off form for years - that he oversaw.

I’m not making any excuses. I’m just amazed fans are so in denial that we’re poorly run by the owners with a poor squad, which has been correctly reflected in this seasons position and the positions under Pellegrino and Hughes. If that doesn’t change, then the next manager will also struggle and we’ll finish near the bottom of the table again.

[CB Fry]

18 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I agree partly with what you are saying but let's rewind back to November 2020 when we were doing well etc etc

Imagine someone posting at that time 'we are going to be in a relegation battle' / 'the rot has set in' ; you would be called a wind up merchant or similar.

A fair few (ignoring the "elephant in the castle") did acknowledge that we would revert to type and that our run was simply good form than anything consistent.

No one envisaged our form to drop off like a cliff, not to the extent that it has in 2021 anyway. I think questions do need to be asked of Ralph for the last 6-8 games for sure, but I don't understand why when we were doing so well some of us were expected to predict that this team would suddenly become so hopeless and misfiring.

Well of course no one was supposed to predict it but my point is I don't accept the premise that now things have gone bad we have to leapfrog back in time and put everything in the context of Pellegrino and Puel etc etc. No one expected this much drop off because people thought we had a decent manager getting results from an average but not terrible squad.

We finished the season 11th, the general opinion was we had strengthened. We have a manager with more job security than pretty much anyone in the league. That is the starting point of this season.

But because things have gone wrong the narrative has changed the starting point back to 2017 or 2018 or whatever.

It's just a false and delusional starting point, ignoring where the buck stops.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Away from the semantics of how I worded it, we haven’t slid at all. We’ve been a poor team for years and years now and that hasn’t changed. We’re still in a better position from when he took over. The only place we’ve slid from is a good run off form - our only good run off form for years - that he oversaw.

I’m not making any excuses. I’m just amazed fans are so in denial that we’re poorly run by the owners with a poor squad, which has been correctly reflected in this seasons position and the positions under Pellegrino and Hughes. If that doesn’t change, then the next manager will also struggle and we’ll finish near the bottom of the table again.

You think being the 4th best team in 2020 to the worst team so far in 2021 isnt a slide? Okay then

Edited 26 April, 2021 by Turkish

[Nemi]

4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Klopp and pep have proved themselves at their clubs, it’s clearly a blip. This bloke hasn’t, 11th last season, worse this. Is it a bad spell, or is he a poor manger. It’s looking to me like  he’s an average manager. 
 

im not sure why you find that so difficult to understand. 

You’re literally making the same point as me. I’m literally saying he’s an average manager. That’s why I’m also saying it’s no surprise he’s having a tough time now when even the best coaches do. I really, really can’t make that any clearer - if that’s too difficult for you to comprehend I can’t help you. 

It’s just that I believe that we’re going to consistently be a poor team unless we somehow get better players. We Southampton ffs we’re not gonna have some genius managing us who can take this squad to Europe.

Again, someone trying to start an argument by making up something I haven’t said.

[Nemi]

3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You think being the 4th best team in 2020 to the worst team so far in 2021 isnt a slide? Okay then

No, if you read it again you can see I said we’ve slid from the form he oversaw for us. I also said we haven’t slid from when he got the job because the previous season we finished 17th and when he took over we were in the relegation zone. We’re currently 15th. So that also isn’t wrong
 

So not sure what you’re getting at here?

[egg]

8 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Away from the semantics of how I worded it, we haven’t slid at all. We’ve been a poor team for years and years now and that hasn’t changed. We’re still in a better position from when he took over. The only place we’ve slid from is a good run off form - our only good run off form for years - that he oversaw.

I’m not making any excuses. I’m just amazed fans are so in denial that we’re poorly run by the owners with a poor squad, which has been correctly reflected in this seasons position and the positions under Pellegrino and Hughes. If that doesn’t change, then the next manager will also struggle and we’ll finish near the bottom of the table again.

Not a slide, come on. We were doing well, then picked up 15 points in 20 games. If that's not a slide, what is? 

The poorly run part is a separate matter. My issue, and the point of this thread, is Ralph's performance, his tactics, his in game management, his results. That's all shit and has nothing to do with how the rest of the club is run. 

[TWar]

2 hours ago, supersonic said:

There is an alternative, we can go 3 in midfield or 3 at the back, it's just Ralph is so intent on playing his same 442 that he won't try anything else. 

We can also stop the constant high press which clearly leaves us totally knackered and ineffective in the last 20 mins, it's just Ralph won't try anything else.

In fact, with the position we're in, there's never been a better time to try something new. We can't really get any worse than 7 points out of a possible 45 so what do we have to lose?

We may even find some of the fringe players are decent, or a change of shape might suit us more.

3atb isn't the answer, we make no chances, how would removing a attacking player and adding a CB help that. 3 in midfield might work, if we had 3 midfielders to actually play!

[Nemi]

1 minute ago, egg said:

Not a slide, come on. We were doing well, then picked up 15 points in 20 games. If that's not a slide, what is? 

The poorly run part is a separate matter. My issue, and the point of this thread, is Ralph's performance, his tactics, his in game management, his results. That's all shit and has nothing to do with how the rest of the club is run. 

We’ve slid from what he has achieved himself. We also haven’t slipped from where he started with us.

My point is he hasn’t joined us and made us worse, he’s failed to maintain his own form. That happens.

[Lord Duckhunter]

9 minutes ago, Nemi said:

You’re literally making the same point as me. I’m literally saying he’s an average manager. That’s why I’m also saying it’s no surprise he’s having a tough time now when even the best coaches do. I really, really can’t make that any clearer - if that’s too difficult for you to comprehend I can’t help you. 

It’s just that I believe that we’re going to consistently be a poor team unless we somehow get better players. We Southampton ffs we’re not gonna have some genius managing us who can take this squad to Europe.

Again, someone trying to start an argument by making up something I haven’t said.

Did you want Claude Puel sacked? 

[Nemi]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Did you want Claude Puel sacked? 

No. I think he’s an average manager, who’s very slightly worse than Hasenhuttl. I think Pellegrino and Hughes were slightly below average managers, but were my no means our biggest problem. As Southampton Football Club as a whole we had started our decline. They were all victims of that.

[Turkish]

16 minutes ago, Nemi said:

No, if you read it again you can see I said we’ve slid from the form he oversaw for us. I also said we haven’t slid from when he got the job because the previous season we finished 17th and when he took over we were in the relegation zone. We’re currently 15th. So that also isn’t wrong
 

So not sure what you’re getting at here?

But what is undeniable is that after a period of improvement, we’ve slide back down to the levels we were before he arrived, yes? Despite working with the team for 2 1/2 years and bringing in his own players Akkad shipping out others.

[Nemi]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

But what is undeniable is that after a period of improvement, we’ve slide back down to the levels we were before he arrived, yes? Despite working with the team for 2 1/2 years and bringing in his own players Akkad shipping out others.

Well that’s what my messages say, so don’t see why you need that clarifying?

And I don’t know who is in charge of recruitment but almost all my messages have criticised it. If Hasenhuttl has had complete control of it then we can add that to the list of his flaws.

[JustinSFC]

32 minutes ago, Nemi said:

We’ve slid from what he has achieved himself. We also haven’t slipped from where he started with us.

My point is he hasn’t joined us and made us worse, he’s failed to maintain his own form. That happens.

You're joking right?

We've conceded more goals in consecutive seasons going back to 2011 or something. 

If you're interested, you'll have to search the forum, someone posted it.

We've also been battered 9-0 twice, when has that ever happened before? That didn't even happen under Pellegrino.

The current run we're on is literally 10 points in 4 months.

Edited 26 April, 2021 by JustinSFC

[Nemi]

6 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

You're joking right?

We've conceded more goals in consecutive seasons going back to 2011 or something. 

If you're interested, you'll have to search the forum, someone posted it.

We've also been battered 9-0 twice, when has that ever happened before? That didn't even happen under Pellegrino.

The current run we're on is literally 10 points in 4 fucking months.

I’m not doubting it. Our defence has been terrible for years and years. You’re making out like I’m saying he’s a genius. I’ve consistently been saying he’s an average manager. With limited resources and a poor squad he did well before and now he’s doing bad. It’s hardly shocking is it?

[JustinSFC]

5 minutes ago, Nemi said:

I’m not doubting it. Our defence has been terrible for years and years. You’re making out like I’m saying he’s a genius. I’ve consistently been saying he’s an average manager. With limited resources and a poor squad he did well before and now he’s doing bad. It’s hardly shocking is it?

My personal viewpoint is, I'd be willing to go into next season with Ralph on the premise he brings in a proper No2 to help him out pitchside in-game, because he's absolutely clueless.

If he's too arrogant or stubborn to do that, then I'd bring someone else in.

In any case, I think we're going into next season with him, but he won't get the run he's having now or any of the piss poor runs he's had.

I also think if we get taken over, I think they'll bring in their own appointment.

[supersonic]

59 minutes ago, TWar said:

3atb isn't the answer, we make no chances, how would removing a attacking player and adding a CB help that. 3 in midfield might work, if we had 3 midfielders to actually play!

JWP, Diallo, Jankewitz, Armstrong. Even Stephens could do a job playing as the holding midfielder 

[The Cat]

2 hours ago, SKD said:

Why is there this theory on here that absolutely no one out there would be interested in us and be able to do a better job than Ralph. Why is it seemingly impossible to some on here that we’d find a new Ralph, Poch koeman etc. 

1 person who would 100% do a better job than Ralph, but they won’t be liked Because they’re not be a hispster trendy choice, is Big Sam. Not my choice, I think there are probably long term better choices on the continent, but short term if PL survival is the goal, he’d almost guarantee that. 

What's this hipster thing? You've mentioned it a few times but I still haven't got a clue what you are on about.

Was Pochettino a "hipster" choice when we appointed him after he was sacked by Espanyol? 

Would Roy Hodgson be a non-hipster choice if he leaves Palace? What about Eddie Howe? Hipster, or just not a foreign manager you haven't heard of?

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, supersonic said:

JWP, Diallo, Jankewitz, Armstrong. Even Stephens could do a job playing as the holding midfielder 

Jankewitz clearly isn't rated, Armstrong is our best attacker and would leave a big hole further up the pitch, Stephens is the "square peg, round hole" I was talking about earlier. Interestingly we did change formation first half vs spurs with Armstrong at the point of a 41212 (442 diamond) but I think most on here wouldn't notice. As evidenced by the fact people think we play a 442 rather than a 4222

[sadoldgit]

6 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ralph has said previously that he likes a smaller ssquad and our squad (at the time) needed to be trimmed down

So do you think that we need more than two players for every position?

[TWar]

1 minute ago, The Cat said:

What's this hipster thing? You've mentioned it a few times but I still haven't got a clue what you are on about.

Was Pochettino a "hipster" choice when we appointed him after he was sacked by Espanyol? 

Would Roy Hodgson be a non-hipster choice if he leaves Palace? What about Eddie Howe? Hipster, or just not a foreign manager you haven't heard of?

I think, from context, it means a non-english manager or a manager under 60. Both annoy the "chuck it in the mixer", "a good captain screams at his team mates", "bring in big Sam" crowd.

[Nemi]

19 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

My personal viewpoint is, I'd be willing to go into next season with Ralph on the premise he brings in a proper No2 to help him out pitchside in-game, because he's absolutely clueless.

If he's too arrogant or stubborn to do that, then I'd bring someone else in.

In any case, I think we're going into next season with him, but he won't get the run he's having now or any of the piss poor runs he's had.

I also think if we get taken over, I think they'll bring in their own appointment.

Again though this is reactionary. Was he clueless when we were winning a lot last year? He’s just a standard manager with strong points and weak points - his strong points helped us in our good run of form, his weak points have exacerbated our poor run of form. It’s all quite normal. 

And overall it’s evened out into a position which reflects the quality of our squad, and has shown he can do a (at the very least slightly) better job than our last two managers - despite, I would say, our squad gradually weakening over that time.

I doubt he’ll find the answers this season - realistically there’s only so much that can be fixed, and it’s not exactly been the ideal season to turn around form. If he can’t next season, then questions will rightly be asked. But even if he fails it definitely doesn’t make him clueless - sometimes things  work out, sometimes they don’t.

And I’m not sure what people mean by having a number 2? We have one, like every other team?

[JustinSFC]

17 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Again though this is reactionary. Was he clueless when we were winning a lot last year? He’s just a standard manager with strong points and weak points - his strong points helped us in our good run of form, his weak points have exacerbated our poor run of form. It’s all quite normal. 

And overall it’s evened out into a position which reflects the quality of our squad, and has shown he can do a (at the very least slightly) better job than our last two managers - despite, I would say, our squad gradually weakening over that time.

I doubt he’ll find the answers this season - realistically there’s only so much that can be fixed, and it’s not exactly been the ideal season to turn around form. If he can’t next season, then questions will rightly be asked. But even if he fails it definitely doesn’t make him clueless - sometimes things  work out, sometimes they don’t.

And I’m not sure what people mean by having a number 2? We have one, like every other team?

I give up.

Goodnight.

[Diabolus Ex Machina]

21 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Again though this is reactionary. Was he clueless when we were winning a lot last year? He’s just a standard manager with strong points and weak points - his strong points helped us in our good run of form, his weak points have exacerbated our poor run of form. It’s all quite normal. 

And overall it’s evened out into a position which reflects the quality of our squad, and has shown he can do a (at the very least slightly) better job than our last two managers - despite, I would say, our squad gradually weakening over that time.

I doubt he’ll find the answers this season - realistically there’s only so much that can be fixed, and it’s not exactly been the ideal season to turn around form. If he can’t next season, then questions will rightly be asked. But even if he fails it definitely doesn’t make him clueless - sometimes things  work out, sometimes they don’t.

And I’m not sure what people mean by having a number 2? We have one, like every other team?

The highlighted parts are problematic for me, as i've mentioned before this isn't just a 'poor run of form' this is worst form since relegation to League One form and as a single period is worse than any other of our managers since promotion - this isn't opinion or based on emotion these are the cold hard facts. Glossing over it like this is a normal thing for managers to go through is at best trying to be overly optimistic and at worst is straight up trying to misrepresent the current situation. It's also worth remembering that this form is ongoing, it hasn't ended yet and nothing i've seen on the pitch has made me think it will end imminently or that it is just a case of bad luck or circumstance.

I'm also very much of the opinion that it is his job as manager to find the answers to at least get a few more positive results by the end of the season. He's had 15 games already to try and work this out and has got 6 more until the end of the season. I don't expect a complete turn-around of form or a run where we suddenly win 5 or even 3 games in a row, but he's shown that this season that he can get results with these exact players and we just need to be reminded that he can still do that and that the spark he had earlier with us hasn't gone completely.

Get us to 40+ points, get us safe and do it on merit rather than relying on the ineptitude of other teams and i'll happily give him another transfer window and start of next season to right the ship completely but if he can't even do that then I see no reason to trust him with another transfer window or to let him get us in a similar perilous position next season - perhaps without the early points cushion we got this season to keep us safe.

[Nemi]

19 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

I give up.

Goodnight.

You can’t justify the nonsense you are spouting. He’s stubborn because he doesn’t have a number 2? Every bloody club has a number 2. 
 

No manager who can get to second in the Bundesliga, or 50 points in the PL is clueless. Don’t make him a genius either.
 

You’re ridiculously deluded if you think Southampton are too big to go on bad runs. We’re a small Premier League team and that’s exactly why we are where we are in the table. 
 

And because we’re a small team, inevitably we attract a manager like Hasenhuttl, who has many flaws but if you think he’s clueless god knows how someone so entitled survived under Poortvield or Burley.
 

 

[Nemi]

10 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

The highlighted parts are problematic for me, as i've mentioned before this isn't just a 'poor run of form' this is worst form since relegation to League One form and as a single period is worse than any other of our managers since promotion - this isn't opinion or based on emotion these are the cold hard facts. Glossing over it like this is a normal thing for managers to go through is at best trying to be overly optimistic and at worst is straight up trying to misrepresent the current situation. It's also worth remembering that this form is ongoing, it hasn't ended yet and nothing i've seen on the pitch has made me think it will end imminently or that it is just a case of bad luck or circumstance.

I'm also very much of the opinion that it is his job as manager to find the answers to at least get a few more positive results by the end of the season. He's had 15 games already to try and work this out and has got 6 more until the end of the season. I don't expect a complete turn-around of form or a run where we suddenly win 5 or even 3 games in a row, but he's shown that this season that he can get results with these exact players and we just need to be reminded that he can still do that and that the spark he had earlier with us hasn't gone completely.

Get us to 40+ points, get us safe and do it on merit rather than relying on the ineptitude of other teams and i'll happily give him another transfer window and start of next season to right the ship completely but if he can't even do that then I see no reason to trust him with another transfer window or to let him get us in a similar perilous position next season - perhaps without the early points cushion we got this season to keep us safe.

Yes, it’s not bad luck at all. We’re not very good, the players aren’t very good, the manager this season at least is out of ideas. I think we have one of the worst squads in the league - especially now teams like West Brom stregthened in January. I think it’s normal because overall our league position right now reflects the quality of player on the pitch. Yes, it’s happened in a weird way this season but Hasenhuttl isn’t a good enough manager to outperform his team by much. I think we have the 15th-18th worst squad in the league, and as such that’s where we are. 

I highly doubt we’ll get many more points this season. Sure, we could switch a different formation, but that’s not going to make Redmond or Djenepo or Walcott start scoring or assisting. It’s not gonna change the fact we have defenders whose strong points aren’t defending. Or midfielders who panic too much. Or inconsistent goalkeepers. It’s gonna take a pre-season at least to turn this around.

As I’ve mentioned already, one of Hasenhuttl’s flaws is that our form is very on or off. But the league position is what matters and overall he’s still doing better in that regard than his predecessors - even at his worst, with this terrible run of form recently.

I shouldn’t have to keep saying it but I don’t think Hasenhuttl is anything special - he plays reasonably entertaining but very frustrating football, that’s high risk, high reward and right now that’s really not working for our squad which is not only poor but extremely mentally weak and lacking on field leadership. But the problems run a hell of a lot deeper than the manger - we’ve overachieved under him last season and now we’re finding our place which reflects where we are as a club nowadays. It isn’t 2014 any more.

 

[Dark Munster]

On 25/04/2021 at 12:33, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of pony. Puel did a far far better job than that. 

It does annoy me when posters lump Puel in with the Clown and the Dinosaur.

Sadly a common false equivalence.

[Greenridge]

8 hours ago, supersonic said:

JWP, Diallo, Jankewitz, Armstrong. Even Stephens could do a job playing as the holding midfielder 

Where does this ridiculous notion about Stephens come from? Comical and based on zero reference. Not a single one of the many managers that’s he played under have thought him worthy of even a try. 

[SKD]

10 hours ago, Nemi said:

It’s a lot easier to convince a Pochettino or a Koeman to a team that’s consistently been improving, with solid investment, a decent squad and an academy in healthy shape. We had that back in 2014. We don’t have much going for us now.

Who are these Koemans and Pochettinos?

 

So what you’re saying is that there are no managers out there who would do better than 7 points in half a season who’d be willing to come to us? Of course there are you idiot. Yes we’ve been poor and ownership is a bit of a mess, but we’re still an established premier league club and a have a reputation of being a stepping stone to the bigger clubs. We’d still Be an attractive option to a lot of managers. 
 

As for who they are, I’m not sure, but then again, I wouldn’t have known about Poch, Ralph or Koeman before they came here. 

[CB Fry]

17 minutes ago, SKD said:

So what you’re saying is that there are no managers out there who would do better than 7 points in half a season who’d be willing to come to us? Of course there are you idiot. Yes we’ve been poor and ownership is a bit of a mess, but we’re still an established premier league club and a have a reputation of being a stepping stone to the bigger clubs. We’d still Be an attractive option to a lot of managers. 
 

As for who they are, I’m not sure, but then again, I wouldn’t have known about Poch, Ralph or Koeman before they came here. 

What was the name of that Premier League team who finished fourth bottom, then the following season had a dreadful start and right in the relegation mix, from the start.

Who was it? Right in the relegation mix they were. Anyway they recruited this guy, with loads of top flight experience, taking teams into the Champions League, competing at the highest level. Loads more experience and success than Pochettino had. Anyway they recruited that guy.

But Nemi is correct- it is absolutely absurd to think that a Gao led Southampton would ever recruit such a person and I have no idea why people are even suggesting it could be a possibility. Absurd.

[Singapore Saint]

17 hours ago, Nemi said:

The rot well and truly set in before Ralph, it’s deluded to think otherwise - we’ve been an awful team with one of the worst squads in the league since 2017.

One of the worst squads or one of the worst managers? Can you argue Aston Villa has a better squad (Saints reject Matt Targett is a regular starter for them) or West Ham (bar Jesse Lingard) or Leeds?

[badgerx16]

20 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

What about it is embarassing to you? How many of the clubs above us do you think we should be above?

All of them. How many do you think ?

[Nemi]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

So what you’re saying is that there are no managers out there who would do better than 7 points in half a season who’d be willing to come to us? Of course there are you idiot. Yes we’ve been poor and ownership is a bit of a mess, but we’re still an established premier league club and a have a reputation of being a stepping stone to the bigger clubs. We’d still Be an attractive option to a lot of managers. 
 

As for who they are, I’m not sure, but then again, I wouldn’t have known about Poch, Ralph or Koeman before they came here. 

I’m saying there’s no manager who over the course of the season would get us higher than 14th/15th place. That’s where we are as a club. But if it’s more satisfactory for you I’m sure they’d do it in a more consistent way where we don’t win loads of games at the start and lose loads of games at the end. We’d just win a few here and there over the course of the season, but we’re still not gonna end up much higher than where we are now.
 

We were a far more attractive club when Pochettino joined and when Koeman joined compared to where we are now. But I think even those two would struggle to do better than 11th and 52 points with this squad and I think those two would especially struggle with this squad in a season like this.

[Matthew Le God]

17 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

All of them. How many do you think ?

Burnley, Palace and maybe Leeds. So not many.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

I do wonder how much our ability to adapt if things aren't going well is hindered by the playbook Ralph spent the summer producing. It's great if it's working but, if it doesn't or it starts to fail, unpicking it across all levels when you've spent the initial months of a season trying to embed it must be pretty impossible in the short term. Maybe it's too rigid and doesn't allow for greater tactical flexibility and/or maybe it's been quickly sussed out by the rest of the league but it might explain why we try the same thing week after week, game after game regardless of how we are doing. It could be the players are starting to feel the same - there's only so many times hit your head against a brick wall before you realise it hurts!

I guess it would also require the author to admit it's not quite perfect or, worse, completely flawed and I'm not sure Ralph would want to show such loss of face.