Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I just think the crazy schedule and injuries has killed his high energy game and that’s all he knows. It’s a freak season so I would give him the benefit of doubt. As long as we can get a stronger squad in place we should do OK next year if we stay up.

If that is true, how do you explain how shite we were in late ‘19 early ‘20? 

Edited 14 March, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If that is true, how do you explain how shite we were in late ‘19 early ‘20? 

We weren't shit then. Late 2019 is when the good form that lasted over a year started.

From 23rd November 2019 onwards until the start of 2021 Saints had a sustained period of good football and a lot of points picked up until Hasenhuttl.

Edited 14 March, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Mr X]

4 hours ago, pimpin4rizeal said:

And to make it worse it’s been the same thing, every single effing game slow tedious backpassing.. after having a abysmal run and this never ever working in about 20 games already! Here we are doing the same thing!every performance is like a carbon  copy of the shit that didn’t work the week before...

would it hurt try something new. But you just know with Ralph next week will be exactly the same 

This is what's so frustrating about RH, at the moment he just isn't learning anything from his mistakes, you would think he would decide that aimless passing around the halfway line combined with backwards passing doesn't win games especially when you are 2-1 down! What's the point in having possession and doing f all with it, not even attempting to put the opposition under pressure! Second half Brighton didn't have to do anything except sit back and watch us play tippy tappy keep ball, we are our own worst enemy! 

[aintforever]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

If that is true, how do you explain how shite we were in late ‘19 early ‘20? 

He changed back to his preferred system after that Leicester game and we looked decent up until this bad run.

Anyway we’re Saints, we are generally always shite, just in varying degrees.

[Mr X]

 

Ralph's own words

"There was no plan, no clear idea in what we are doing in the last 30 minutes. This is not possible."

Surely the plan came from him 

 

   

[stknowle]

39 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I just think the crazy schedule and injuries has killed his high energy game and that’s all he knows. It’s a freak season so I would give him the benefit of doubt. As long as we can get a stronger squad in place we should do OK next year if we stay up.

This is probably correct but if it is he either needs to learn something else quickly or fuck off.  A manager who only knows one way of playing and just keeps on playing that way whatever is happening out there in front of him and whatever condition his players are in ain't a good manager, he's not managing the game, the season, or the squad. The 2 9 nils are beacons of light shining on his inability to adapt to circumstances and change tactics. In both those games we should have parked the bus and gone full on damage limitation. He can't do it, he can't do anything other than plan A gung ho up and at em in their faces from the off lads. If that doesn't work we are done. It clearly has it's merits, it's garnered some excellent results he obviously is handicapped by the lack of investment and our disinterested wanker of an owner, leaving us with a thin squad and tired players.  But even or perhaps especially given those handicaps he should be adapting how we play for a bit, grind out some results.  

Edited 14 March, 2021 by stknowle

[SKD]

28 minutes ago, Mr X said:

 

Ralph's own words

"There was no plan, no clear idea in what we are doing in the last 30 minutes. This is not possible."

Surely the plan came from him 

 

   

I was watching and the camera panned on to him. He was sat down, and it’s the first time I’ve thought that he looked lost. I think he’s a dead man walking. It’s a shame, he’s a likeable bloke, but it’s not working. Obviously he’s on a huge wage and will get a huge pay off, but I honestly think he wants the best for the club, which cant be said about many of our recent managers, and his pride will take a hammering if things don’t change. 
 

If we’re not going to sack him, he needs some help from the bench. Something has to change. 
 

regardless of what happens, I’ll wish him all best. I think he’ll succeed somewhere, I just don’t think it’s us under these constraints.  

[Badger]

2 hours ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

If we want Howe, better get in quick before the blue few do.

I can see that happening actually, despite all the hype about Howe he won't be considered for the sort of job he was originally touted for so will be looking for something else, probably locally.

Personally, I'd prefer to stick with Ralph, but lets face it without investment we're stuffed  whoever is in charge.

Edited 14 March, 2021 by Badger

[East Kent Saint]

It’s no good changing the manager when what’s needed are some better players . Big Sam is saying they can’t really improve without a few better players. The chances of getting any better players with no money and with the club still for sale are slim indeed . 
 

[MarkSFC]

It's a very very crucial next 3 games. A win at Bournemouth hopefully changes the mood and can be backed up with wins against Burnley and WBA and then we are near as damn it safe. 

 

Should we lose those 3 then we are under extreme pressure with only 7 games to get probsbly 8 or 9 points. 

We play Palace H Leicester H Liverpool A Fulham H Leeds H West Ham A in those 7.....Im not confident!!!!!

Would you therefore wait until WBA game to change the manager? 

Win v WBA and lose v Burnley....slightly better.

Jeez...who would be a CEO of Saints?!!

The decision they face right now and over the next 2 or 3 weeks is huge and balanced on a very thin knife edge. 

We don't see the mood at Stappewood, we don't see how the players are with the manager. I would be in there Monday/Tuesday if I were Semmens seeing whether the players are still "believing in the manager". If they are. Stick. If not. Twist. 

 

Sad times. 

[JRM]

37 minutes ago, SKD said:

I was watching and the camera panned on to him. He was sat down, and it’s the first time I’ve thought that he looked lost. I think he’s a dead man walking. It’s a shame, he’s a likeable bloke, but it’s not working. Obviously he’s on a huge wage and will get a huge pay off, but I honestly think he wants the best for the club, which cant be said about many of our recent managers, and his pride will take a hammering if things don’t change. 
 

If we’re not going to sack him, he needs some help from the bench. Something has to change. 
 

regardless of what happens, I’ll wish him all best. I think he’ll succeed somewhere, I just don’t think it’s us under these constraints.  

Agree with that, if he goes need a clear out of all first team coaches including Watson and Kelvin Davis. 

[SKD]

13 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

It’s no good changing the manager when what’s needed are some better players . Big Sam is saying they can’t really improve without a few better players. The chances of getting any better players with no money and with the club still for sale are slim indeed . 
 

I’m sorry but no wins in 12 with some very winnable fixtures in that. It’s impossible to do any worse. 

[James]

Lose to Bournemouth and I think we need a change. Ralph is out of ideas. Doesn’t know how to change it.

[Suhari]

5 minutes ago, JRM said:

Agree with that, if he goes need a clear out of all first team coaches including Watson and Kelvin Davis. 

I think we need a clear out of coaches regardless.

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Suhari said:

I think we need a clear out of coaches regardless.

I'm still struggling to work out Davis coaching attributes. Did he just land that as default because we're skint?

I don't think he even started as an academy coach, he went straight in as a first team coach.

[Suhari]

1 minute ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm still struggling to work out Davis coaching attributes. Did he just land that as default because we're skint?

I don't think he even started as an academy coach, he went straight in as a first team coach.

'Player liaison' wasn't he; then first team coach.

Watson was 'keeper coach, then first team coach.

Fleming? Not well regarded anywhere if I recall.

Why hasn't Ralph brought his own guys in?

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Suhari said:

'Player liaison' wasn't he; then first team coach.

Watson was 'keeper coach, then first team coach.

Fleming? Not well regarded anywhere if I recall.

Why hasn't Ralph brought his own guys in?

'Skint' springs to mind. All about giving them a chance from within and all that waffle, but when that line is usually played out it means we haven't got any money to do better.

He did manage to bring in Richard Kitzlbitlzer. I'm sure he'd like to do more with the backroom staff tbf, it feels like he needs some extra support sometimes. I'm sure I read it a couple of years back that he was trying to bring in some coaches/assistants. But we promoted Fleming instead.

Edited 14 March, 2021 by S-Clarke

[East Kent Saint]

My point is who would want to manage Saints at the moment? No money so you can’t bring in your own support team as was the norm . No money to buy players that are better than the ones here already . You might get an old dinosaur manager on a one year contract or a total unknown from lower euro leagues but who do you think would come here , seriously ?

[SKD]

24 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm still struggling to work out Davis coaching attributes. Did he just land that as default because we're skint?

I don't think he even started as an academy coach, he went straight in as a first team coach.

Working with Adams on his finishing I think I saw. I don’t know if he’s in goal whilst Adams is taking shots to hopefully boost his confidence, but perhaps explains why he hits every shot as hard as he can at the keeper...

[Bob76]

What rubbish, there are only 18 jobs that could be available in the prem, which is a league most managers want a crack at, some of those 18 will not be available so very few changes to get a job in this league. Most managers who fancy a go in the prem would jump at any available job.

[Dorchester Saint]

59 minutes ago, MarkSFC said:

It's a very very crucial next 3 games. A win at Bournemouth hopefully changes the mood and can be backed up with wins against Burnley and WBA and then we are near as damn it safe. 

 

Should we lose those 3 then we are under extreme pressure with only 7 games to get probsbly 8 or 9 points. 

We play Palace H Leicester H Liverpool A Fulham H Leeds H West Ham A in those 7.....Im not confident!!!!!

Would you therefore wait until WBA game to change the manager? 

Win v WBA and lose v Burnley....slightly better.

Jeez...who would be a CEO of Saints?!!

The decision they face right now and over the next 2 or 3 weeks is huge and balanced on a very thin knife edge. 

We don't see the mood at Stappewood, we don't see how the players are with the manager. I would be in there Monday/Tuesday if I were Semmens seeing whether the players are still "believing in the manager". If they are. Stick. If not. Twist. 

 

Sad times. 

We’re ‘near as damn it’ safe now! We may continue to lose, but Fulham have a stinking run in, they’re not going to catch us. 

Edited 14 March, 2021 by Dorchester Saint

[Convict Colony]

Said it on another thread I doubt Pep could get this lot playing well at the moment.

Their confidence is shot, injuries have taken their toll and when you look at our bench it's like we brought a butter knife to a gun fight.

Ralph clearly wanted a LB RB cover over winter, KWP was injured shortly after and Bertrand needs time out, that player could of made a difference in a few games.

We may not be a 🐖 being fattened according to Gao but this 🐖 is currently on a.starvation diet.

 

 

Edited 14 March, 2021 by Convict Colony

[supersonic]

Awful run of results and performances. 

Forget games against an already relegated Sheff Utd or reserve sides in the cup, the performances have been utter garbage and I am struggling to believe Ralph can change it.

Most worrying, for me, is our second half form, we are just totally, totally ineffective in the second half of games. Teams know if they can keep us out for the first hour, we are done, and all they have to do is stay fairly solid and we're toast, today's game was a very accurate reflection on how ineffective we've become; we just don't look like getting back into any game.

Since we beat Newcastle and went top, we've played 21 league games.

In the second half of those games alone, we've only scored 7 goals and conceded 21. We've lost 10 of those 21 second halves and dropped 11 points (compared to just 3 points gained).

We've also only scored 3 goals later than the 60 minute mark in those 21 games (Ings v Brighton; Adams & Redmond v Sheff Utd), meaning we haven't scored later than the 55th minutes for 17 (yes, SEVENTEEN!) games.

Notable second half failings in this time include:

- Man Utd (H) - utter capitulation from 2-0 up to a 3-2 defeat

- Arsenal (A) - played against 10 men for 27 minutes, mustered a woeful 1 shot on target

- Man Utd (A) - less said about that the better

- Newcastle (A) - although we won the second half 1-0, we played 40 mins against 10 men and 12 minutes against 9

- Wolves (H) - utter capitulation again going from a comfortable 1-0 lead to a 2-1 defeat, no sign of getting back in game once behind

- Leeds (A) - another crumbling, conceding 3 unanswered goals and not looking like scoring

- Everton (A) - Only shot on target was in 89th minute

- Brighton (H) - lost second half 1-0, ZERO shots at goal after the 60th minute.

Very, very worrying trend indeed. Not sure we get anything from Burnley or Palace games coming up. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

3 hours ago, Matthew Le God said:

We weren't shit then. Late 2019 is when the good form that lasted over a year started.

From 23rd November 2019 onwards until the start of 2021 Saints had a sustained period of good football and a lot of points picked up until Hasenhuttl.

Depends how you define late 2019. Its laughable that you pick a date that follows 2 straight losses. Newcastle away & West Ham home, both we were poor as fuck. Prior to lockdown we lost 3 out of 4. West Ham away, Burnley at home & Newcastle at home, in all 3 we were fucking woeful. Stop making excuses for the bloke, wake up and smell the coffee. 
 

 

[Teddeer]

Support for Ralph seems to have taken a big hit after today's performance. It is hard to defend him even though he is working with a very thin squad.  His methods succeed if he has a team that can press hard high up the pitch, win the ball then play quick accurate passes to panic the opposition. Those sort of performances for us seem a long time ago. Without that strategy and the players to implement it I'm afraid he seems  to have no other tactic.  It takes a super fit squad where every player knows his job and everyone works together - we don't have that. Even then, as we have seen, opposition managers work out how to combat Ralph's tactics and negate what he is trying to achieve.  It's a tough one because we have looked superb at times but there seems to be no longevity to his methods. I imagine he'll be here until the end of the season and a decision will be taken based on how we do in the remaining games.  Unless there is a marked upturn in performances and results I don't think anyone will be surprised if there is a parting of the ways.

[bpsaint]

It’s pretty clear Ralph isn’t so good when he hasn’t got a Danny Ings banging in over 20 goals a season to bail him out.

Losing to Bournemouth didn’t seem fathomable to me a few weeks ago, but now I genuinely fear it might happen, and if it does then Ralph’s position is simply untenable.

[austsaint]

1 minute ago, bpsaint said:

It’s pretty clear Ralph isn’t so good when he hasn’t got a Danny Ings banging in over 20 goals a season to bail him out.

Losing to Bournemouth didn’t seem fathomable to me a few weeks ago, but now I genuinely fear it might happen, and if it does then Ralph’s position is simply untenable.

Agree - it really appears that clearcut; without Danny's 20 + goals, and to a lesser extent Romeu's presence, our overachieving and comfortable table position seems shot!    As Tedderr observes, without the quick high press and a decisive pass and strike, there's not much else to create scoring chances, and we haven't seen much of that in the past 11 or 12 games (20 minutes v Man City aside).

[washsaint]

Having had chance to forget about todays abysmal performance, this is not all on Ralph.  This is, essentially, the same group that has been crap for years under Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes before Ralph.

While Ralph's tactics and strategy are questionable, the players need to own this - they are gutless, spineless and lacking in any form of pride.

With little to no investment Ralph's hands are tied behind him and who on earth could get a better response from this steaming pile of crap?

[skintsaint]

Well we can agree that some of the fans are now starting to question RH as our manager. He needs to get us to that cup final and avoid relegation now to call this season acceptable for me. 

How long is his contact for?

[Harry_SFC]

5 hours ago, washsaint said:

Having had chance to forget about todays abysmal performance, this is not all on Ralph.  This is, essentially, the same group that has been crap for years under Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes before Ralph.

While Ralph's tactics and strategy are questionable, the players need to own this - they are gutless, spineless and lacking in any form of pride.

With little to no investment Ralph's hands are tied behind him and who on earth could get a better response from this steaming pile of crap?

I agree with this.

We're such a soft touch. You look at players like Bertrand, Bednarek, JWP, Redmond, Minamino, even Ings and Adams at times.

None of them show any guts or fight when the going gets tough. JWP is definitely not a captain - good player, but not a captain.

Ralph clearly gives a damn which seperates him from a lot of the players, it's more his tactical side which seems to be failing at present. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, washsaint said:

Having had chance to forget about todays abysmal performance, this is not all on Ralph.  This is, essentially, the same group that has been crap for years under Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes before Ralph.

If Ralph got us 8th some of the clowns on here would be pushing for a knighthood. 
 

So far, he’s done a worse job than Puel, a better job than pelligrino,and a similar job to mark Hughes. However, it was “all on” them, wasn’t it? 

Edited 15 March, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[skintsaint]

another thing to remember, all our youth teams play this style...so if he goes then we have to rejig the youth again......

[SKD]

Just now, skintsaint said:

another thing to remember, all our youth teams play this style...so if he goes then we have to rejig the youth again......

Funnily enough, they’re all losing as well.

[CB Fry]

6 hours ago, washsaint said:

Having had chance to forget about todays abysmal performance, this is not all on Ralph.  This is, essentially, the same group that has been crap for years under Puel, Pellegrino and Hughes before Ralph.

While Ralph's tactics and strategy are questionable, the players need to own this - they are gutless, spineless and lacking in any form of pride.

With little to no investment Ralph's hands are tied behind him and who on earth could get a better response from this steaming pile of crap?

I had a quick look at the seasons prediction thread.

Lots and lots of predictions of top half or at least very solid mid-table.

I couldn't find it but somewhere there is also a post transfer window thread where the vast majority were happy with the business and thought the squad was improved with Ralph's signings of Salisu, Walcott, KWP, Salisu. A huge level of positive confidence when the new season started.

Very little of "everyone is a steaming pile of crap".

I do wonder why that is. 

[SKD]

A honest suggestion here. If I was Ralph, I’d be going over to France on hands and knee’s trying to bring Fonte back to the club. 
 

Probably slightly too old to be an impact on the pitch, although I’m not sure he’d be any worse than bednerak atm, but his influence in the dressing room would be second to none. Currently captain on Lille who are going to win the french league. 
 

Other than VVD, we’ve not had a leader since we let this bloke walk out the club (a big reason that Puel lost the dressing room btw). 

The epitome of hard work. Knows the club. A club legend, regardless of how it ended. And would certainly help sure you our defence, even if that’s in a coaching / advice capacity. 
 

Had he not left, he’d have been a dead cert for a coaching role. I’d love to see him become our manager one day, assuming he goes down that path. 

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, SKD said:

A honest suggestion here. If I was Ralph, I’d be going over to France on hands and knee’s trying to bring Fonte back to the club. 
 

Probably slightly too old to be an impact on the pitch, although I’m not sure he’d be any worse than bednerak atm, but his influence in the dressing room would be second to none. Currently captain on Lille who are going to win the french league. 
 

Other than VVD, we’ve not had a leader since we let this bloke walk out the club (a big reason that Puel lost the dressing room btw). 

The epitome of hard work. Knows the club. A club legend, regardless of how it ended. And would certainly help sure you our defence, even if that’s in a coaching / advice capacity. 
 

Had he not left, he’d have been a dead cert for a coaching role. I’d love to see him become our manager one day, assuming he goes down that path. 

I doubt Ralph (or indeed many of the strategic decision makers now at the club) are particularly aware of Fonte sadly, even more so that they are in contact with him. But I agree, as a defensive coach, i can see him being a good addition.

I thought Lallana had a good game against us. History aside, he reminded me that he is (and very much was) a joy to watch with the ball at his feet. Effortless skill and has a very english way of beating players without relying on pace. I look at the team now and we have no one with that ability. Probably the closest player we have who is able to carry the ball, beat players, and create chances is Armstrong - but he's a different kind of player.

Also just thinking back to that Poch season and it does make you realise how much worse of a team we are now. Fonte, Lovren, Lallana, morgan, Wanyama, jayrod, lambert, clyne, shaw, even cork. What a great team that was - and one that certainly knew how to hurt teams with a combination of skill, pace, and power.

No slight against Koeman's Mane/Tadic/Pelle combination either - also a tasty team.

If you did a combined 11 from the 3 managers, I wonder how many of the current team would get in...

Edited 15 March, 2021 by Saint86

[Colwinston Saints]

13 hours ago, supersonic said:

Awful run of results and performances. 

Forget games against an already relegated Sheff Utd or reserve sides in the cup, the performances have been utter garbage and I am struggling to believe Ralph can change it.

Most worrying, for me, is our second half form, we are just totally, totally ineffective in the second half of games. Teams know if they can keep us out for the first hour, we are done, and all they have to do is stay fairly solid and we're toast, today's game was a very accurate reflection on how ineffective we've become; we just don't look like getting back into any game.

Since we beat Newcastle and went top, we've played 21 league games.

In the second half of those games alone, we've only scored 7 goals and conceded 21. We've lost 10 of those 21 second halves and dropped 11 points (compared to just 3 points gained).

We've also only scored 3 goals later than the 60 minute mark in those 21 games (Ings v Brighton; Adams & Redmond v Sheff Utd), meaning we haven't scored later than the 55th minutes for 17 (yes, SEVENTEEN!) games.

Notable second half failings in this time include:

- Man Utd (H) - utter capitulation from 2-0 up to a 3-2 defeat

- Arsenal (A) - played against 10 men for 27 minutes, mustered a woeful 1 shot on target

- Man Utd (A) - less said about that the better

- Newcastle (A) - although we won the second half 1-0, we played 40 mins against 10 men and 12 minutes against 9

- Wolves (H) - utter capitulation again going from a comfortable 1-0 lead to a 2-1 defeat, no sign of getting back in game once behind

- Leeds (A) - another crumbling, conceding 3 unanswered goals and not looking like scoring

- Everton (A) - Only shot on target was in 89th minute

- Brighton (H) - lost second half 1-0, ZERO shots at goal after the 60th minute.

Very, very worrying trend indeed. Not sure we get anything from Burnley or Palace games coming up. 

Really really fair point.  All of those are woeful performances.  

To balance this i would share the following. 

V Liverpool - Great win 

v Man CITY - Lost 1-0 but terrific

v Everton @ Home battered them

v Arsenal at Emirates 11v11 we had over 50% of the ball and brilliant performances

v Brighton/Villa away - Great performances

 

We are in an awful place, but i genuinely believe he can turn this AROUND. 

 

BUT WE MUST WIN V BOURNEMOUTH or i'll be saying perhaps it's time to move him on to protect our premier league place. 

 

If we do we're in a semi final and he has two weeks to get us going again, we are good with a weeks preparation, have been for 12 months. 

[JustinSFC]

To the guy who asked if we took a combined 11 from the Poch/Koeman/Ralph era who would get in.

None.

Seriously. None of them. That was when we could field teams that Prowse couldn't even get a sniff in.

If a gun was at my head, I'd say Bertrand. But that's going back to 2017 form. Not current.

Maybe Walker-Peters. But even still we had Clyne, arguably the best English RB in the League under Poch.

[Matthew Le God]

5 hours ago, skintsaint said:

another thing to remember, all our youth teams play this style...so if he goes then we have to rejig the youth again......

Not if the club appoint a manager with the same pressing philosophy.

[Forester]

I haven’t changed my view on this over the last month, where at least four points have been accumulated which is more than the previous month as horrific as it is to say.  And we have a great chance of making semi-final of FA cup.

 

In essence, the football is poor, the results are poor and we are going backwards in games not forwards.  So all in all it is woeful.  However......

....the key for me is that this is a manager who across 40 matches in an entire calendar year finishing as recently as three months ago amassed top four points.  Not a good month or two, a whole year.  So unlike Pellegrino, Wigley, Gray as examples of Premier League managers we have had who are clearly out of their depth it is obvious that Ralph has something about him that is capable of getting a very average squad to outperform.

 

We all know that confidence and momentum in football is massively important, and as others have pointed out our season has collapsed under the weight of injuries, playing twice a week and therefore a permanently unsettled team.  I think we will benefit from the remainder of the season being largely one match per week.  Let’s get through to end of season, somehow accumulating another six or seven points, and let Ralph rebuild in the summer.  I think he has earned the right to have that patience from us and the board.

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, Forester said:

 

....the key for me is that this is a manager who across 40 matches in an entire calendar year finishing as recently as three months ago amassed top four points.  Not a good month or two, a whole year.  So unlike Pellegrino, Wigley, Gray as examples of Premier League managers we have had who are clearly out of their depth it is obvious that Ralph has something about him that is capable of getting a very average squad to outperform.

Judge a manager over a season, not some artificial span of dates that suits people’s agendas. I don’t give a shiny shite whether he’s a genius over a “Calendar year” or wins every game he’s ever played in April. Do you get an award for manager of the calendar year, or get extra points? 
 

He was 11th last season, which isn’t over performing, it’s about par. Let’s  see where he ends up this season after every side has played each other twice. That’s how managers are judged, or at least were until the cult of Ralph started up. 

Edited 15 March, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[captainchris]

2 hours ago, Forester said:

I haven’t changed my view on this over the last month, where at least four points have been accumulated which is more than the previous month as horrific as it is to say.  And we have a great chance of making semi-final of FA cup.

 

In essence, the football is poor, the results are poor and we are going backwards in games not forwards.  So all in all it is woeful.  However......

....the key for me is that this is a manager who across 40 matches in an entire calendar year finishing as recently as three months ago amassed top four points.  Not a good month or two, a whole year.  So unlike Pellegrino, Wigley, Gray as examples of Premier League managers we have had who are clearly out of their depth it is obvious that Ralph has something about him that is capable of getting a very average squad to outperform.

 

We all know that confidence and momentum in football is massively important, and as others have pointed out our season has collapsed under the weight of injuries, playing twice a week and therefore a permanently unsettled team.  I think we will benefit from the remainder of the season being largely one match per week.  Let’s get through to end of season, somehow accumulating another six or seven points, and let Ralph rebuild in the summer.  I think he has earned the right to have that patience from us and the board.

How has a manager who has contrived to lose with two record score defeats and won one game in 12 playing diabolical football earned any rights.........

Yes Ralph is a nice bloke but don’t let that cloud his questionable record, lack of motivational skills and tracking of tactics during games.

We are in it to win it at all costs or you might as well stay in bed...

We are are nowhere near where a manager should have us performing.

The excuses trotted out are unbearable too. Don’t forget he even rested players ready for the ‘huge’ Brighton challenge and still we were embarrassing.

Nice bloke yes but not cutting it.... 

[Rivers]

Long read alert! Only bother if your mind is still open.

I understand the emotion at play in this thread. Really, I do. It is no fun to watch the club you love thrill you with the temporary illusion of a potentially truly memorable campaign at the top end of the table, chasing those elusive European places, only to see it all fall apart like thawing ice. Until a few months ago, Ralph's star was in the ascendency, we were "lucky to have him", and worried he would soon be poached away by the bigger clubs, enviously eyeing up the delectable football we were serving up.

Following a football club, and particularly loving one like ours the way we do, it is understandably an emotional experience. A rollercoaster ride of changing fortunes, as our hopes and dreams are put through the wringer. In Ralph we thought we'd found our knight in shining armour, who'd valiantly come to whisk us off our feet in a fairytale footballing romance; only to be left heartbroken to discover that he may not have been all that he first appeared to be.

But try to take the emotion out of the equation for a moment. 

Ralph is the first to admit that he is far from the finished article. There have been at least two occasions in some form of dealings with the press, where he has himself stated that he is here to learn as much as he hopes to teach, that he's not perfect, and knows he will make many mistakes. He also said that he was happy about this, as without making mistakes, he will learn nothing, and has a firm desire to grow and improve as a coach.

I'm not the sort to spend ages looking up facts and quotes to "prove I am right" - as it is really not that important to me. I just remember words to that effect being spoken by him. I also understand that in light of our current dismal form, you have every right to question Ralph and his levels of performance as our manager. I'm not here to change your mind, or argue with anyone, simply to speak up for someone I have a lot of time and respect for. I come here to mainly read all your thoughts on the fortunes of our wonderful football club, and every now and then I feel like adding my own. I have no need to be seen as "right", I simply sometimes like to offer an alternative perspective for you to consider. You're perfectly free to consider me an idiot, and I'm equally free not to care if you do.  

Ralph's style of play, as we well know, is necessarily a very energetic one. He demands extreme levels of work rate, and by association, equally extreme levels of fitness to facilitate it. We (as a Club) were fully aware of what we were buying into when we brought him in, and it is up to us as a Club to give him the tools he needs to work with, to implement this style that we brought him in to instill. The last three managers after Pochetino all signed on to deliver this same philosophy,  and none came close to anything like achieving it. Ralph most definitely has.

But now he is struggling. Not because he has suddenly become a shit manager, he has already more than shown us what he is capable of with a fit and fully comitted squad, but because of the abysmal set of curcumstances he is currently having to operate under. 

Yes, he makes mistakes. Yes, he is again also the first to admit that he is very stubborn. He has a way of playing he is utterly dedicated to perfecting, and he would probably even be willing to die trying, such is his comittment to it. But it is also not fair to say he is unadaptable.  You only have to think back as far as our very creditable performance in our recent 1-1 draw with Chelsea, to see that he is capable of mixing up the game plan where he feels it necessary. Also think back to the way he had us playing a while after his initial arrival. We were happy to not have the ball, aiming to win it back high, and loved slinging it down the channels to pressure the ball. We rarely wanted long spells of posession. This current (some might say excruciating) development of overplaying with the ball  initially came about in response to other sides finding ways to nullify our early style, and is in itself evidence of Ralph's ability to utilise more than one game plan. He actually has three or four strings to his bow in that regard. 

But the main point I wanted to make, was simply a reminder of how good we have been under Ralph before, when he has the time he needs to implement his methods. He is very much a training ground coach, often speaking of his need for quality time at Staplewood to prepare in depth for the nuances of each opponent, and firmly drill his players in the "automatisms" necessary to play the way he demands.

We've had no pre-season to get the proper levels of fitness up to standard, a ridiculously condensed season with relentless runs of fixtures, leading to insane bouts of extended injuries to key players, and back ups that are simply not up to the standards we require to perform competently at this level. There is hardly any time to train at the intensity Ralph needs, and hardly any recovery time between games to rest tired minds and bodies. Sure it is the same for everyone,  but not everyone plays with our necessary intensity that we need to compete against often vastly superior squads at this level. With the state of the squad we have, most of it simply not good enough,  and those that are, physically and mentally burnt out - Ralph is  pretty much working with his hands tied behind his back. All he is trying to do right now, is enough to get them over the line.

Yes, you are absolutely right, results have been utterly shite for about a third of the season, for some very obvious reasons, but for the previous third, were very impressive indeed. 

Ralph may not be "the messiah" - but neither is he a "very naughty boy'.  He is a very good coach and manager, currently operating under extremely difficult conditions, where it is not possible to get anything like the best out of what he has. But even this shall pass.

Fortunately, despite the current outcry for his head, I'm quietly confident that he has enough credit at the Club to make it through the rest of the season intact. And after a sorely needed summer rest for everyone at the club (including us!) a proper pre-season, and an opportunity to fill some glaringly obvious holes in the squad, I firmly believe that many who are now slating him and wishing him gone, will be very glad that those who pull the strings behind the scenes, had the requisite longsightedness to keep faith with the man who is determined to bring us a very bright future. 

 Thanks, if you bothered to read through all that. No worries if you didn't. Just felt it needed to be said.

 

[aintforever]

Agree with the above, this season is a freak so I would give Ralph the benefit of doubt for now. The schedule calms down a bit from now on so hopefully we will notice the difference.

[Streaky]

3 hours ago, captainchris said:

How has a manager who has contrived to lose with two record score defeats and won one game in 12 playing diabolical football earned any rights.........

Yes Ralph is a nice bloke but don’t let that cloud his questionable record, lack of motivational skills and tracking of tactics during games.

We are in it to win it at all costs or you might as well stay in bed...

We are are nowhere near where a manager should have us performing.

The excuses trotted out are unbearable too. Don’t forget he even rested players ready for the ‘huge’ Brighton challenge and still we were embarrassing.

Nice bloke yes but not cutting it.... 

Great Post. My thoughts too

[Mr X]

Whatever way you look at Ralph has had more than his fair share of good will, he has to be on borrowed time now but then if his run of results doesn't even cost you your job what does? it looks like the club have made their decision stick or bust, even our favourite neighbors decided one win in 7 wasn't good enough for them! Ralph's record is far worse than that.  I would say not any point making a change now but not sure he has earned the chance to manage us next season? 

[Shroppie]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Thanks, if you bothered to read through all that. No worries if you didn't. Just felt it needed to be said.

Yes I did, and thanks for a balanced and sensible view.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

 Thanks, if you bothered to read through all that. No worries if you didn't. Just felt it needed to be said.

Appreciate you writing all that. Your views are fair and balanced.

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Long read alert! Only bother if your mind is still open.

I understand the emotion at play in this thread. Really, I do. It is no fun to watch the club you love thrill you with the temporary illusion of a potentially truly memorable campaign at the top end of the table, chasing those elusive European places, only to see it all fall apart like thawing ice. Until a few months ago, Ralph's star was in the ascendency, we were "lucky to have him", and worried he would soon be poached away by the bigger clubs, enviously eyeing up the delectable football we were serving up.

Following a football club, and particularly loving one like ours the way we do, it is understandably an emotional experience. A rollercoaster ride of changing fortunes, as our hopes and dreams are put through the wringer. In Ralph we thought we'd found our knight in shining armour, who'd valiantly come to whisk us off our feet in a fairytale footballing romance; only to be left heartbroken to discover that he may not have been all that he first appeared to be.

But try to take the emotion out of the equation for a moment. 

Ralph is the first to admit that he is far from the finished article. There have been at least two occasions in some form of dealings with the press, where he has himself stated that he is here to learn as much as he hopes to teach, that he's not perfect, and knows he will make many mistakes. He also said that he was happy about this, as without making mistakes, he will learn nothing, and has a firm desire to grow and improve as a coach.

I'm not the sort to spend ages looking up facts and quotes to "prove I am right" - as it is really not that important to me. I just remember words to that effect being spoken by him. I also understand that in light of our current dismal form, you have every right to question Ralph and his levels of performance as our manager. I'm not here to change your mind, or argue with anyone, simply to speak up for someone I have a lot of time and respect for. I come here to mainly read all your thoughts on the fortunes of our wonderful football club, and every now and then I feel like adding my own. I have no need to be seen as "right", I simply sometimes like to offer an alternative perspective for you to consider. You're perfectly free to consider me an idiot, and I'm equally free not to care if you do.  

Ralph's style of play, as we well know, is necessarily a very energetic one. He demands extreme levels of work rate, and by association, equally extreme levels of fitness to facilitate it. We (as a Club) were fully aware of what we were buying into when we brought him in, and it is up to us as a Club to give him the tools he needs to work with, to implement this style that we brought him in to instill. The last three managers after Pochetino all signed on to deliver this same philosophy,  and none came close to anything like achieving it. Ralph most definitely has.

But now he is struggling. Not because he has suddenly become a shit manager, he has already more than shown us what he is capable of with a fit and fully comitted squad, but because of the abysmal set of curcumstances he is currently having to operate under. 

Yes, he makes mistakes. Yes, he is again also the first to admit that he is very stubborn. He has a way of playing he is utterly dedicated to perfecting, and he would probably even be willing to die trying, such is his comittment to it. But it is also not fair to say he is unadaptable.  You only have to think back as far as our very creditable performance in our recent 1-1 draw with Chelsea, to see that he is capable of mixing up the game plan where he feels it necessary. Also think back to the way he had us playing a while after his initial arrival. We were happy to not have the ball, aiming to win it back high, and loved slinging it down the channels to pressure the ball. We rarely wanted long spells of posession. This current (some might say excruciating) development of overplaying with the ball  initially came about in response to other sides finding ways to nullify our early style, and is in itself evidence of Ralph's ability to utilise more than one game plan. He actually has three or four strings to his bow in that regard. 

But the main point I wanted to make, was simply a reminder of how good we have been under Ralph before, when he has the time he needs to implement his methods. He is very much a training ground coach, often speaking of his need for quality time at Staplewood to prepare in depth for the nuances of each opponent, and firmly drill his players in the "automatisms" necessary to play the way he demands.

We've had no pre-season to get the proper levels of fitness up to standard, a ridiculously condensed season with relentless runs of fixtures, leading to insane bouts of extended injuries to key players, and back ups that are simply not up to the standards we require to perform competently at this level. There is hardly any time to train at the intensity Ralph needs, and hardly any recovery time between games to rest tired minds and bodies. Sure it is the same for everyone,  but not everyone plays with our necessary intensity that we need to compete against often vastly superior squads at this level. With the state of the squad we have, most of it simply not good enough,  and those that are, physically and mentally burnt out - Ralph is  pretty much working with his hands tied behind his back. All he is trying to do right now, is enough to get them over the line.

Yes, you are absolutely right, results have been utterly shite for about a third of the season, for some very obvious reasons, but for the previous third, were very impressive indeed. 

Ralph may not be "the messiah" - but neither is he a "very naughty boy'.  He is a very good coach and manager, currently operating under extremely difficult conditions, where it is not possible to get anything like the best out of what he has. But even this shall pass.

Fortunately, despite the current outcry for his head, I'm quietly confident that he has enough credit at the Club to make it through the rest of the season intact. And after a sorely needed summer rest for everyone at the club (including us!) a proper pre-season, and an opportunity to fill some glaringly obvious holes in the squad, I firmly believe that many who are now slating him and wishing him gone, will be very glad that those who pull the strings behind the scenes, had the requisite longsightedness to keep faith with the man who is determined to bring us a very bright future. 

 Thanks, if you bothered to read through all that. No worries if you didn't. Just felt it needed to be said.

 

One thing I would add is that the whole club is structured around Ralph s philosophy so unless we are relegated, he will stay in the job as we have invested in him long term. He knows this and the club knows this.

Plus he was dealt a very bad hand when we pretty much went from semi capable back up full backs to no back up full backs in january.

Will be nice to get Ings and walcott back after the international break.

It is certainly no time to panic or to change manager.

[Forester]

2 hours ago, Rivers said:

Long read alert! Only bother if your mind is still open.

I understand the emotion at play in this thread. Really, I do. It is no fun to watch the club you love thrill you with the temporary illusion of a potentially truly memorable campaign at the top end of the table, chasing those elusive European places, only to see it all fall apart like thawing ice. Until a few months ago, Ralph's star was in the ascendency, we were "lucky to have him", and worried he would soon be poached away by the bigger clubs, enviously eyeing up the delectable football we were serving up.

Following a football club, and particularly loving one like ours the way we do, it is understandably an emotional experience. A rollercoaster ride of changing fortunes, as our hopes and dreams are put through the wringer. In Ralph we thought we'd found our knight in shining armour, who'd valiantly come to whisk us off our feet in a fairytale footballing romance; only to be left heartbroken to discover that he may not have been all that he first appeared to be.

But try to take the emotion out of the equation for a moment. 

Ralph is the first to admit that he is far from the finished article. There have been at least two occasions in some form of dealings with the press, where he has himself stated that he is here to learn as much as he hopes to teach, that he's not perfect, and knows he will make many mistakes. He also said that he was happy about this, as without making mistakes, he will learn nothing, and has a firm desire to grow and improve as a coach.

I'm not the sort to spend ages looking up facts and quotes to "prove I am right" - as it is really not that important to me. I just remember words to that effect being spoken by him. I also understand that in light of our current dismal form, you have every right to question Ralph and his levels of performance as our manager. I'm not here to change your mind, or argue with anyone, simply to speak up for someone I have a lot of time and respect for. I come here to mainly read all your thoughts on the fortunes of our wonderful football club, and every now and then I feel like adding my own. I have no need to be seen as "right", I simply sometimes like to offer an alternative perspective for you to consider. You're perfectly free to consider me an idiot, and I'm equally free not to care if you do.  

Ralph's style of play, as we well know, is necessarily a very energetic one. He demands extreme levels of work rate, and by association, equally extreme levels of fitness to facilitate it. We (as a Club) were fully aware of what we were buying into when we brought him in, and it is up to us as a Club to give him the tools he needs to work with, to implement this style that we brought him in to instill. The last three managers after Pochetino all signed on to deliver this same philosophy,  and none came close to anything like achieving it. Ralph most definitely has.

But now he is struggling. Not because he has suddenly become a shit manager, he has already more than shown us what he is capable of with a fit and fully comitted squad, but because of the abysmal set of curcumstances he is currently having to operate under. 

Yes, he makes mistakes. Yes, he is again also the first to admit that he is very stubborn. He has a way of playing he is utterly dedicated to perfecting, and he would probably even be willing to die trying, such is his comittment to it. But it is also not fair to say he is unadaptable.  You only have to think back as far as our very creditable performance in our recent 1-1 draw with Chelsea, to see that he is capable of mixing up the game plan where he feels it necessary. Also think back to the way he had us playing a while after his initial arrival. We were happy to not have the ball, aiming to win it back high, and loved slinging it down the channels to pressure the ball. We rarely wanted long spells of posession. This current (some might say excruciating) development of overplaying with the ball  initially came about in response to other sides finding ways to nullify our early style, and is in itself evidence of Ralph's ability to utilise more than one game plan. He actually has three or four strings to his bow in that regard. 

But the main point I wanted to make, was simply a reminder of how good we have been under Ralph before, when he has the time he needs to implement his methods. He is very much a training ground coach, often speaking of his need for quality time at Staplewood to prepare in depth for the nuances of each opponent, and firmly drill his players in the "automatisms" necessary to play the way he demands.

We've had no pre-season to get the proper levels of fitness up to standard, a ridiculously condensed season with relentless runs of fixtures, leading to insane bouts of extended injuries to key players, and back ups that are simply not up to the standards we require to perform competently at this level. There is hardly any time to train at the intensity Ralph needs, and hardly any recovery time between games to rest tired minds and bodies. Sure it is the same for everyone,  but not everyone plays with our necessary intensity that we need to compete against often vastly superior squads at this level. With the state of the squad we have, most of it simply not good enough,  and those that are, physically and mentally burnt out - Ralph is  pretty much working with his hands tied behind his back. All he is trying to do right now, is enough to get them over the line.

Yes, you are absolutely right, results have been utterly shite for about a third of the season, for some very obvious reasons, but for the previous third, were very impressive indeed. 

Ralph may not be "the messiah" - but neither is he a "very naughty boy'.  He is a very good coach and manager, currently operating under extremely difficult conditions, where it is not possible to get anything like the best out of what he has. But even this shall pass.

Fortunately, despite the current outcry for his head, I'm quietly confident that he has enough credit at the Club to make it through the rest of the season intact. And after a sorely needed summer rest for everyone at the club (including us!) a proper pre-season, and an opportunity to fill some glaringly obvious holes in the squad, I firmly believe that many who are now slating him and wishing him gone, will be very glad that those who pull the strings behind the scenes, had the requisite longsightedness to keep faith with the man who is determined to bring us a very bright future. 

 Thanks, if you bothered to read through all that. No worries if you didn't. Just felt it needed to be said.

 

Very good post and aligns to my thinking.  Reckon in Ralph’s 27 months in charge he has had two poor spells of three months.  Let’s ride it out