Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Shroppie]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

So in that case is it not time to accept we don't currently have the players capable to play Ralph's preferred style & probably never will have, he seems incapable of adapting to anything else so what do we do? 

Have you forgotten that, with the players we've got, playing Ralph's style, we we're top of the league in November?

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

So in that case is it not time to accept we don't currently have the players capable to play Ralph's preferred style & probably never will have, he seems incapable of adapting to anything else so what do we do? 

How have you worked that out? We just played it throughout 2020 and were very successful getting points using it.

[Mr X]

36 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

How have you worked that out? We just played it throughout 2020 and were very successful getting points using it.

True maybe it's more that style no longer works as teams are wise to it or are you saying it's mainly just injuries that are holding us back? 

[Shroppie]

18 minutes ago, Mr X said:

True maybe it's more that style no longer works as teams are wise to it or are you saying it's mainly just injuries that are holding us back? 

The style does still work, but you're right that teams are getting better at countering it. Which is why Ralph is on record as saying you can never stand still: you have to keep trying to do things better.

He's also said that it's not only he who thinks about this: there is a strong team spirit and the players themselves discuss tactics a lot after training sessions.

Ralph is an intelligent, knowledgeable coach who cares passionately about Saints. There's no other manager I'd rather have right now.

 

[CanadaSaint]

51 minutes ago, Mr X said:

True maybe it's more that style no longer works as teams are wise to it or are you saying it's mainly just injuries that are holding us back? 

I think our style works very well and I wouldn't want to see it change. However, I think it would work even better if we complemented it with some occasional early delivery into the box or angled passes inside defenders - before the defence and midfield has had a chance to get set. Both Ings and Adams can do stuff in tight spaces, so getting the ball into them quickly - without the sometimes laborious build-up, would yield fruit. It's all the more important when we're chasing the game.

What drives me nuts is watching the CDs farting around - especially Stephens, who has a habit of dwelling on the ball, looking around as though he knows what he's doing and is choosing his best option, and then giving it away when everyone has pushed forward.

One trick ponies don't do very well in the PL over the longer term because they get sussed and countered.

The only other concern with our high-energy out style is that it's not sustainable with a squad that lacks depth. We can easily lose effect in the latter part of games, and there's a cumulative effect too - a drained squad in the second half of the season.

Ralph needs to do some compromising on his style, and the club needs to realize that they must support him if they want to keep him.

[stevy777_x]

1 hour ago, Shroppie said:

The style does still work, but you're right that teams are getting better at countering it. Which is why Ralph is on record as saying you can never stand still: you have to keep trying to do things better.

He's also said that it's not only he who thinks about this: there is a strong team spirit and the players themselves discuss tactics a lot after training sessions.

Ralph is an intelligent, knowledgeable coach who cares passionately about Saints. There's no other manager I'd rather have right now.

 

This 1000000000000000%

[Toussaint]

16 hours ago, Mr X said:

True maybe it's more that style no longer works as teams are wise to it or are you saying it's mainly just injuries that are holding us back? 

We became impotent long before the injures, we still managed to pick up results though. I think this started around the time of Brighton away and wolves away. 

[Østerrike]

Do not even know why we keep this thread discussion alive since it makes absolutely no sense to ged rid of Ralph. It was 0:6, unluckily not 1:6, we lost 0:9.. of course a 1:6 in relation to a 0:9 looks different.

[tajjuk]

15 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I think our style works very well and I wouldn't want to see it change. However, I think it would work even better if we complemented it with some occasional early delivery into the box or angled passes inside defenders - before the defence and midfield has had a chance to get set. Both Ings and Adams can do stuff in tight spaces, so getting the ball into them quickly - without the sometimes laborious build-up, would yield fruit. It's all the more important when we're chasing the game.

What drives me nuts is watching the CDs farting around - especially Stephens, who has a habit of dwelling on the ball, looking around as though he knows what he's doing and is choosing his best option, and then giving it away when everyone has pushed forward.

One trick ponies don't do very well in the PL over the longer term because they get sussed and countered.

The only other concern with our high-energy out style is that it's not sustainable with a squad that lacks depth. We can easily lose effect in the latter part of games, and there's a cumulative effect too - a drained squad in the second half of the season.

Ralph needs to do some compromising on his style, and the club needs to realize that they must support him if they want to keep him.

Said this before on other threads, but part of the reason we play the ball around at the back is draw teams out onto us that creates space in behind or between the mid and defence, isn't always going to work, but its often deliberate. 

At the end of the day we have limited player options, we don't have people with electric pace, we don't have a target man type player who can unsettle defences by holding it up, backing in and allow us to put more crosses in and we don't have some super talented creator who can unlock gaps in deep defences, the last thing being a problem we've had going back about 3-4 years really.

Under successive managers we have always struggled to unlock deep defences, especially at home, it's why we have a relatively poor record against Newcastle over recent years because they tend to just not really play and camp in their own half a lot, that has been their style under Bruce and Benitez. We only beat at them at home this year because we pressed them and that caused them to make mistakes around their own box. 

The other thing we have been consistently bad at is dropping points from winning positions, again that stretched back from before Ralph, and has to be a mentality thing, and maybe a squad depth thing as well, not enough leadership maybe on the pitch at times, maybe not enough leadership in the team full stop. We are still a relatively young squad, it's why you look at shrewd signings like Jonny Evans for Leicester, someone who clearly leads and organises that Leicester team, we don't sign players like that and it's where Steven Davis has probably missed, that experienced older head we can bring on into games.

Basically though losing leads and struggling to break teams down are problems that we've had since Koeman I think, they seem more inherent to the squad than particularly problems with Ralph.

We've lacked a clever playmaking no.10 type player since Tadic left (and he was basically phoning it in for his last season or so) and we've not had a decent physical forward/target man sort of player since Pelle left.  Both of those would help breaking down those teams.

And I think we lack experienced and calm heads to bring on in games to help us hold onto leads and stop us capitulating. 

[cambsaint]

If there is a problem with Ralph's sty;e of press, imo it's that it condenses the play into such a congested area that our forwards have no space and can't find any.

Watching Cimainly ty and Spurs yesterday showed that the goals came when the last quarter of the opponents half was relatively empty, which is when we concede most goals against us.

The result seems to me that teams set up against us to pack their box when we attack and try to score on the breakaway.

I have no great problem that we couldn't score against Newcastle when they just parked the bus, it's extremely difficult and either requires a m istake from the opposition or a piece of genius or luck.

It was a shame that KWP was absent as I'd like to see if he could have coped better with St Maximen who created chaos on their left wing.

 

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, cambsaint said:

If there is a problem with Ralph's sty;e of press, imo it's that it condenses the play into such a congested area that our forwards have no space and can't find any.

A big problem has been in recent games we've lacked an attacking right back. Without Walker-Peters the high press falls apart. A key cog in the system missing and the system suffers. The full backs also provide the width, with the two strikers and two number 10s being narrow. With a non attacking right back instead of Walker-Peters the system falls down.

Edited 8 February, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[S-Clarke]

27 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

A big problem has been in recent games we've lacked an attacking right back. Without Walker-Peters the high press falls apart. A key cog in the system missing and the system suffers. The full backs also provide the width, with the two strikers and two number 19s being narrow. With a non attacking right back instead of Walker-Peters the system falls down.

Which is why it's even more ludicrous that we have no backup to KWP. We needed better than Valery, but now we don't even have him.

[The Coaches Voice]

At The Coaches’ Voice, we work together with the greatest minds in football to provide entertaining, educational and impartial content for all football fans. We also employ a number of professional coaches to carry out tactical analysis and player scouting. Here we focus on Saints boss Ralph Hasenhuttl, we hope you enjoy it.

Ralph Hasenhuttl: Coach Watch - The Coaches' Voice

Thank you,

The Coaches’ Voice

[Toadhall Saint]

1 hour ago, The Coaches Voice said:

At The Coaches’ Voice, we work together with the greatest minds in football to provide entertaining, educational and impartial content for all football fans. We also employ a number of professional coaches to carry out tactical analysis and player scouting. Here we focus on Saints boss Ralph Hasenhuttl, we hope you enjoy it.

Ralph Hasenhuttl: Coach Watch - The Coaches' Voice

Thank you,

The Coaches’ Voice

Cheers 

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, The Coaches Voice said:

At The Coaches’ Voice, we work together with the greatest minds in football to provide entertaining, educational and impartial content for all football fans. We also employ a number of professional coaches to carry out tactical analysis and player scouting. Here we focus on Saints boss Ralph Hasenhuttl, we hope you enjoy it.

Ralph Hasenhuttl: Coach Watch - The Coaches' Voice

Thank you,

The Coaches’ Voice

Thanks for that, good website.

Although your opening line about 'working with the greatest minds' is a bit dubious when you have a piece with Mauricio Pellegrino. Arguably the worst manager I've ever seen.

[Lee On Solent Saint]

10 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Thanks for that, good website.

Although your opening line about 'working with the greatest minds' is a bit dubious when you have a piece with Mauricio Pellegrino. Arguably the worst manager I've ever seen.

And that's saying something considering the competition! Am reminded of Ian Branfoot's insistence of playing Paul Moody ahead of Le Tiss back in the day

[Toadhall Saint]

Just now, Lee On Solent Saint said:

And that's saying something considering the competition! Am reminded of Ian Branfoot's insistence of playing Paul Moody ahead of Le Tiss back in the day

Please don’t remind me - absolutely fucking bonkers. 

[S-Clarke]

8 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

And that's saying something considering the competition! Am reminded of Ian Branfoot's insistence of playing Paul Moody ahead of Le Tiss back in the day

Thankfully I'm too young to remember those days!

[Lee On Solent Saint]

20 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Thankfully I'm too young to remember those days!

You missed out! I think one of my favourite moments at the Old Dell was the 2-1 victory over Newcastle. We were so out of the game it was untrue. Queue two Le Tissier moments of magic to turn around that game. I think you could argue all day which goal was the better one!

[saint lard]

He’s run his course. 
bringing nothing new to the table....except 2x 9-0 results and a record of 6 consecutive losses. 
ponderous boring,telegraphed football and no idea on how to switch it up. 
the love in with and seemingly untouchable Ralph has disappeared a while back. 
id take the gaffer at Brentford. 

[Toussaint]

Just now, saint lard said:

He’s run his course. 
bringing nothing new to the table....except 2x 9-0 results and a record of 6 consecutive losses. 
ponderous boring,telegraphed football and no idea on how to switch it up. 
the love in with and seemingly untouchable Ralph has disappeared a while back. 
id take the gaffer at Brentford. 

I’d be more judgemental if he had the opportunity to assemble the team he wants rather than making do and mending with what he has.

[simo]

We continue to break records under Ralph,  I can see us losing or next 3 too ! The Fa cup will save him for now but I think he's walking on thin ice . 

[Saints foreva]

Nowhere near as good as hes made out unfortunately. Just not as bad as the shite we had before but...

Two 9-0 defeats and now 6 league defeats for the first time in our history is hard to defend. That isn't down to luck, that's down to the players and the manager. Ralph lacks a plan B. We saw that in the second half, Wolves switched their wingers and we had no answer for it, thats how simple it was for them to turn the game on its head. 

[CB Fry]

2 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I’d be more judgemental if he had the opportunity to assemble the team he wants rather than making do and mending with what he has.

If only Ralph had the resources and total freedom that Pochettino, Koeman, Strachan and all our other managers had.

He is the Southampton manager. Making the best of what you have is part of it.

Personally I have no desire to see him go.

We were in an obviously false position a few months back and its now been corrected. This is how good we are. Not that good.

[S-Clarke]

Why are people even speculating that he should leave? Why can't anyone see the bigger picture here?

He got this squad overachieving MASSIVLEY, he polished a turd. 

We still have the same core as we did under Hughes, Pellegrino etc. Redmond, Bednarek, McCarthy, JWP, Romeu, Ings, Bertrand - the core has never changed, so why is anyone surprised when we hit these terrible patches? We have TERRIBLE leadership on the field, absolutely diabolical. Terrible mentality. Look at the stats for how often we lose leads...that tells you all you need to know about the mentality and leadership of this team. Technically we have good players, but winners they are not.

In an ideal world we need to rebuild the spine and provide Ralph with the flexibility to do that. Then I'd really judge him.

[The Cat]

We do need some leadership on the pitch. Players that battle hard and take no shit. Maybe we also need to start rolling around on the floor a bit more and getting in the ref's face because as much as I don't like that behaviour every other team seems to do it. 

[Chapel End]

24 minutes ago, saint lard said:

He’s run his course. 
bringing nothing new to the table....except 2x 9-0 results and a record of 6 consecutive losses. 
ponderous boring,telegraphed football and no idea on how to switch it up. 
the love in with and seemingly untouchable Ralph has disappeared a while back. 
id take the gaffer at Brentford. 

Sadly we have utter garbage like this on here

[Chapel End]

17 minutes ago, CB Fry said:

If only Ralph had the resources and total freedom that Pochettino, Koeman, Strachan and all our other managers had.

He is the Southampton manager. Making the best of what you have is part of it.

Personally I have no desire to see him go.

We were in an obviously false position a few months back and its now been corrected. This is how good we are. Not that good.

 

16 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Why are people even speculating that he should leave? Why can't anyone see the bigger picture here?

He got this squad overachieving MASSIVLEY, he polished a turd. 

We still have the same core as we did under Hughes, Pellegrino etc. Redmond, Bednarek, McCarthy, JWP, Romeu, Ings, Bertrand - the core has never changed, so why is anyone surprised when we hit these terrible patches? We have TERRIBLE leadership on the field, absolutely diabolical. Terrible mentality. Look at the stats for how often we lose leads...that tells you all you need to know about the mentality and leadership of this team. Technically we have good players, but winners they are not.

In an ideal world we need to rebuild the spine and provide Ralph with the flexibility to do that. Then I'd really judge him.

But thankfully we have some rational people who understand

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

Anyone who thinks we can get a better manager than we’ve got is deluded. Like Claude before him, he’s doing a good job with average, mentally weak players. 
 

[Roo1976]

3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Anyone who thinks we can get a better manager than we’ve got is deluded. Like Claude before him, he’s doing a good job with average, mentally weak players. 
 

So in THAT time, have we changed the team by trying to find stronger players mentally?,or recruited better players in Redmond Djenepo? i don't think so either, we are shit and if we loose to Bournemouth where next? where are our 2 possibly 3 more wins coming from , nowhere soon i guess.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 minutes ago, Roo1976 said:

So in THAT time, have we changed the team by trying to find stronger players mentally?,or recruited better players in Redmond Djenepo? i don't think so either, we are shit and if we loose to Bournemouth where next? where are our 2 possibly 3 more wins coming from , nowhere soon i guess.

We’ll win at least 3 games the rest of the season. No bother. 

[SaveloyMush]

5 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

We’ll win at least 3 games the rest of the season. No bother. 

Hopefully all in the FA Cup!

[ChrisPY]

51 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

Why are people even speculating that he should leave? Why can't anyone see the bigger picture here?

He got this squad overachieving MASSIVLEY, he polished a turd. 

We still have the same core as we did under Hughes, Pellegrino etc. Redmond, Bednarek, McCarthy, JWP, Romeu, Ings, Bertrand - the core has never changed, so why is anyone surprised when we hit these terrible patches? We have TERRIBLE leadership on the field, absolutely diabolical. Terrible mentality. Look at the stats for how often we lose leads...that tells you all you need to know about the mentality and leadership of this team. Technically we have good players, but winners they are not.

In an ideal world we need to rebuild the spine and provide Ralph with the flexibility to do that. Then I'd really judge him.

Ralph’s definitely got the squad overachieving but can’t help but feel the mentality on the pitch is a reflection of him and the way he sets out the team to play.

Don’t think there’s any manager who would join us that could do any better but that doesn’t mean Ralph couldn’t be getting more out of the team.

The frustration is if Ralph made different substitutions or went more defensive/attacking at certain points during games, we could have 5 or so more wins this season. Suppose that could be said of most teams but the changes that are needed often seem glaringly obvious and the game plays out as expected with us ‘dropping points from a winning position’ or failing to create anything meaningful when chasing a game.

Maybe I’m ultra critical considering what Ralph has got from the squad but he’s only a few small improvements away from us being part of the next group in the league that you’d alway expect to be top half and semi regularly qualify for the Europa League (I’m thinking Everton and Leicester although they both have ambitions of making a ‘Big 7/8’).

[nta786]

I’d be interested in a poll but I’d expect 95% are in the “Ralph IN” camp? 

Maybe a poll like:

a) Ralph out now/immediately

b) Ralph out at the end of the season

c) Ralph in

d) Ralph in unless the bottom 3 come to within 3pts of us

[The Kraken]

C

[Badger]

1 hour ago, simo said:

We continue to break records under Ralph,  I can see us losing or next 3 too ! The Fa cup will save him for now but I think he's walking on thin ice . 

To be replaced by ???

This is not an attractive job for any manager with ambition given our current ownership and finances. 

Like many I'd like to see RH given the resources to build his own squad, but that seems unlikely at present. Did an excellent job at Leipzig although he did have the steadying hand of his DoF, Rangnick, there as well.

[Badger]

1 hour ago, saint lard said:

He’s run his course. 
bringing nothing new to the table....except 2x 9-0 results and a record of 6 consecutive losses. 
ponderous boring,telegraphed football and no idea on how to switch it up. 
the love in with and seemingly untouchable Ralph has disappeared a while back. 
id take the gaffer at Brentford. 

Don't agree with you. You've seen the calibre of managers we've had since Koeman left, and Ralph is an upgrade on all of them.

Why would the Brentford manager be interested in us ? He's working at an ambitious and well run club, perhaps that's the key as to where things have gone wrong.

 

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Don't agree with you. You've seen the calibre of managers we've had since Koeman left, and Ralph is an upgrade on all of them.

Why would the Brentford manager be interested in us ? He's working at an ambitious and well run club, perhaps that's the key as to where things have gone wrong.

 

I think that's it. I'd love to know what Ralph could do with genuine backing. 5 permanent signings in 5 windows is not backing (I know why!) but, if we did dispense with him, that question would always linger for me. The plan to bring in players from the academy still works if we were one day able to bolster the squad with proper signings rather than just those with potential.

[Daft Kerplunk]

Ralph could surely benefit from a decent coaching set-up. It can’t be great on the training pitch with the dross we have in Craig Fleming, Kelvin Davis and Dave Watson! Ralph doesn’t appear to communicate with any of these during a match and seems isolated. 

[simo]

27 minutes ago, Badger said:

To be replaced by ???

This is not an attractive job for any manager with ambition given our current ownership and finances. 

Like many I'd like to see RH given the resources to build his own squad, but that seems unlikely at present. Did an excellent job at Leipzig although he did have the steadying hand of his DoF, Rangnick, there as well.

I think the best bets would be Howe as he is would be cheaper than my first choice Potter . But ideally as someone else said he'd be given a transfer chest in the summer, but unless we get taken over before then by someone with a decent amount of money that isn't going to happen . 

[Dr. Kucho]

Like said above, who is going to replace Ralph and do a better job?
We have to remember that the likes of Hoedt, Lemina, Elyounnoussie, Long etc are still on the payroll. Until the club can move them on, investment in the squad will be limited. 
 

Since Ralph has been here, the players bought have been pretty much spot on. Slowly a stronger squad is being built and youth players are getting more playing time.

Ralph might want to change our playing style until the squad is strong enough to be rotated when needed. The high pressing game is more fun to watch, however the players fatigue sooner and we have to be able to rotate them to prevent injuries. 

[LuckyNumber7]

2 hours ago, saint lard said:

He’s run his course. 
bringing nothing new to the table....except 2x 9-0 results and a record of 6 consecutive losses. 
ponderous boring,telegraphed football and no idea on how to switch it up. 
the love in with and seemingly untouchable Ralph has disappeared a while back. 
id take the gaffer at Brentford. 

From memory you seem to post similar about every manager we have. 

We were 6th six games ago. We are on a bad run for a number of reasons and back down to a more realistic position. There are plenty of managers who would be in a relegation battle with this squad.

Ralph has his faults and is not blameless, but he is not the problem.

[Chapel End]

C

[trousers]

2 hours ago, S-Clarke said:

Why can't anyone see the bigger picture here?

You've surely been a member of the Saintsweb Forum long enough now to know the answer to that? (Unless you were being rhetorical of course...  )

Edited 14 February, 2021 by trousers

[Jonnyboy]

It's a terrible record to have, although I'm quite surprised to hear that no Saints manager has ever lost 6 lost league games in a row. 

 

Does that apply to top flight only? Otherwise people like Poortvliet start to come into the comparison.... 

[S-Clarke]

9 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

It's a terrible record to have, although I'm quite surprised to hear that no Saints manager has ever lost 6 lost league games in a row. 

 

Does that apply to top flight only? Otherwise people like Poortvliet start to come into the comparison.... 

I'm sure we've gone on really long spells not winning, but we've probably thrown a draw or two in an amongst the 5 or 6 games etc.

[Jonnyboy]

6 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I'm sure we've gone on really long spells not winning, but we've probably thrown a draw or two in an amongst the 5 or 6 games etc.

Damn, so not even Branfoot, Redknapp or Poortvliet have have had that record. 

[kwsaint]

We surely have to stick with Ralph.  When he arrived we had blown the VVD money on a random set of misfits (Lemina, Elyanoussi, Hoedt, Carillo), had no money to spend on new players, and had to get rid of a number of players to trim the wage bill.  We could easily have gone down and run into all sorts of problems.  We are still in the Premier League, and on our day able to give the top teams a run for their money.  We can see what he is trying to do, and can also see his frustration.

There are clearly issues around having a Plan B, and what to do when we are behind and teams have shut up shop.  And we do need an old head on the pitch - what we could do with an Alan Ball or Jimmy Case now.  But this is a really odd season.  No proper pre-season, and the games are coming thick and fast.  Players look jaded.  And it's not just us, Liverpool have exactly the same problem.  Think that we just have to see the season through - we won't go down - and build again next season.  Just have to be patient.  

[trousers]

2 minutes ago, Jonnyboy said:

Damn, so not even Branfoot, Redknapp or Poortvliet have have had that record. 

And none of them had Saints performing as a top 6 side for a whole calendar year. Swings and roundabouts...

#onlyfocusonthebadstuff

Edited 14 February, 2021 by trousers

[S-Clarke]

1 minute ago, Jonnyboy said:

Damn, so not even Branfoot, Redknapp or Poortvliet have have had that record. 

Yeah we had long spells in that 04-05 PL season not winning, but we always separated it with a draw in an amongst it.

The most losses in a row we had under Port was 4...believe it or not.

So yeah, this team has set another new record. Good times.