Ralph Hasenhuttl

[saintscottofthenortham]

5 hours ago, Tom & Gerry said:

Sometimes Ralph gets it right and sometimes, too often for some he gets it wrong, but that is hardly surprising given the quality of the league. To get results against teams of equal or greater ability you can't always stand toe to toe with them, you have to think outside the box and occasionally be a little unorthodox and also  a lot goes on behind the scenes with players that we don't know about. However in this game you are only as good as your last game and  that was deeply concerning, but  before that we should really  have got a point away which isn't bad and the game before that we all enjoyed. So I suggest the sensible way to go is to see how we do in the matches leading up to the world cup break and then decide if we want to make a change.  If Ralph were a cat he'd be very much on his 9th life.

For me, the problem isn't getting it wrong. If he was trying different things and it backfires, then fair do's for trying it. My problem with Ralph, which caused me to lose faith in him a long time ago, is his persistent nonsensical decisions which he repeats over and over. His starting line-ups, to what must be the vast majority of us, are just baffling. Then, when it so obviously isn't working, he refuses to change it. How he could seriously watch that on Friday and decide to take Che Adams off whilst Mo El-no-usey was quite literally wasting a space on the pitch, was beyond words. The man makes decisions like he is cracking up, and not in a funny way.

[Hawkswood]

On 21/09/2022 at 20:16, CB Fry said:

Exclusive insight like that is the reason I am on this forum.

Ha !!! This type of snide comment is exactly the reason I rarely get involved on here. Okay, to be clear, AGAIN, the ONLY reason I posted that comment, as I had previously stated, was because there had been about a dozen or so people commenting on here in the last week about whether Poch would come back. Clearly I was being incredibly ignorant when I thought it might be of interest to those people that I had heard, straight from the ex premier league managers mouth - the one involved in these queries - that he had thought himself too big for the job here. I apologise for having this information and sharing it. I shan't be doing it again. But you made your little comment and got a few laughs so I'm sure that made you feel good about yourself. Enjoy your weekend dude.

[DT]

15 hours ago, Saint Billy said:

Football manager, one of a very few professions where you can get sacked but still stand a chance of getting a high grade job. 

See also: cabinet minister

[Wurzel]

13 hours ago, saintscottofthenortham said:

For me, the problem isn't getting it wrong. If he was trying different things and it backfires, then fair do's for trying it. My problem with Ralph, which caused me to lose faith in him a long time ago, is his persistent nonsensical decisions which he repeats over and over. His starting line-ups, to what must be the vast majority of us, are just baffling. Then, when it so obviously isn't working, he refuses to change it. How he could seriously watch that on Friday and decide to take Che Adams off whilst Mo El-no-usey was quite literally wasting a space on the pitch, was beyond words. The man makes decisions like he is cracking up, and not in a funny way.

I agree with that to a point, after ll if we play the same every week we will be - and were - quickly sussed out. . But my problem is the timing of changes, I'm talking match starting formations, not mid-game rethinks and/or substitutions. Many a time we've totally outplayed the opposition form the first 20 minutes or so (unfortunately usually failing to score). Those games are normally when we start with what we do best. But then randomly a new system will be tried which often looks like the players have no idea what's going on. Is it lack of training under that new system? Is it a last minute decision to make a change?  Rarely does it seem to be because the opposition play a certain way, it seems like their tactics are irrelevant to the decision. Is he arrogant enough that it's Ralph's way or no way, and doesn't even bother studying the opposition?
 

RH has had plenty of time now. No manager can survive with one tactic but his changes always seem to be made at the nwrong time, either before the team fully understand the or too late, by which time the opposition teams understand and prepare for them. And when we are constantly  being told that transfer targets have to fit into our way of playing .......I can only guess that depends which week they sign .

[Dragon_man]

On 22/09/2022 at 11:17, aintforever said:

Taking Spurs to a CL final - Managing PSG with some of the World’s best players - Trying to keep Southampton up with a bunch of kids and without a proven striker.

In what world is that possibly a logical career move?

True, that would be a much bigger challenge than he's used to.

[Mr X]

If/when Ralph goes it's going to be very tough to coach his philosophy out of these players as we have invested so heavily in his playbook, they don't really know any other way to play & sometimes don't even know his way either! 

Edited 24 September, 2022 by Mr X

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Mr X said:

If/when Ralph goes it's going to be very tough to coach his philosophy out of these players as we have invested so heavily in his playbook, they don't really know any other way to play & sometimes don't even know his way either! 

He massively over complicates things, maybe his successor will keep things simpler, play to players strengths and not coach the life out of creative players. I don’t think it’ll be too hard a transition for them.

[Mr X]

53 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

He massively over complicates things, maybe his successor will keep things simpler, play to players strengths and not coach the life out of creative players. I don’t think it’ll be too hard a transition for them.

Hope so! Yes I agree the keep it simple philosophy would be a huge improvement 

[DT]

If we were to make a change, now would have been the obvious time in the international break. Or perhaps they have spent the time doing due diligence on lining someone up over the next couple of games, depending on results

[FarehamSaintJames]

If we were/are ever planning on making a managerial change it wouldn’t be until the World Cup period.

I think teams that have sacked managers this early (unless losing every single match) is a tad stupid. And even then it depends on so many things: the state of the squad going into the window. Were they backed? Did they get who they wanted? Etc.

[stevy777_x]

On 24/09/2022 at 20:06, Mr X said:

Hope so! Yes I agree the keep it simple philosophy would be a huge improvement 

Lol simple philosophy, this is the effing PL, there are no simple tactics. You test yourself against the best managers in the world. Unless you want to hire a freaking dinasaure again

[Wade Garrett]

Anyone share my view that a defeat on Saturday will be Ralph’s last game?

 

[Toussaint]

12 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Anyone share my view that a defeat on Saturday will be Ralph’s last game?

 

I'm not sure, I think it will take a couple more, win Saturday and the mood will change, things will look OK, 10 points from 8 games would be OK, lose saturday, then presumably lose to City the week after and its 7 from 9 and possibly getting close to the bottom 3. My guess is if nothing is gained from Everton  and City then West Ham will be the "must win" for Ralph. 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Another of the coaches recruited in the summer (Alex Clapham) has now departed. Something not right or just bad luck? 

[skintsaint]

8 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Another of the coaches recruited in the summer (Alex Clapham) has now departed. Something not right or just bad luck? 

Wasn't he the set piece coach?

[Toussaint]

12 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Another of the coaches recruited in the summer (Alex Clapham) has now departed. Something not right or just bad luck? 

when you say another, who else?

[qwertyell]

1 hour ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Another of the coaches recruited in the summer (Alex Clapham) has now departed. Something not right or just bad luck? 

He departed a while ago - for "personal reasons" - after just three months in the job.

Just got hired as set piece coach by Vasco da Gama in Brazil.

Perhaps his "personal reasons" were wanting to live in Brazil. 

Edited 27 September, 2022 by qwertyell

[DT]

On 25/09/2022 at 19:08, FarehamSaintJames said:

If we were/are ever planning on making a managerial change it wouldn’t be until the World Cup period.

I think teams that have sacked managers this early (unless losing every single match) is a tad stupid. And even then it depends on so many things: the state of the squad going into the window. Were they backed? Did they get who they wanted? Etc.

Perhaps we're waiting for Southgate...

[Pamplemousse]

2 hours ago, Wade Garrett said:

Anyone share my view that a defeat on Saturday will be Ralph’s last game?

 

I don't think anything will happen before the World Cup break

[Saint86]

Think the Everton game could ultimately prove crucial given its followed by City and West Ham (and no one should be comfortably demanding more than a point from those 2). If we beat Everton we'll be 10points from 10 games (assuming losses follow). Then its the new forest derby, are usual win vs Arsenal at SMS, and palace away.

I reckon we'll end up on about 14 points from 13games come the end of October.

Edited 28 September, 2022 by Saint86

[skintsaint]

On 27/09/2022 at 18:36, DT said:

Perhaps we're waiting for Southgate...

Oh god....imagine that. 😅

[Chris cooper]

So Jan valery in an interview this week has come out and said that Ralph wouldn’t speak to him or any young players 1 to 1 .. he had his coaches speak to him/them .

 ..In a quote he said ‘ “you cannot change him he wouldn’t speak to me or other young players”

“His style is his way or no way “

jan valery .

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Chris cooper said:

So Jan valery in an interview this week has come out and said that Ralph wouldn’t speak to him or any young players 1 to 1 .. he had his coaches speak to him/them .

 ..In a quote he said ‘ “you cannot change him he wouldn’t speak to me or other young players”

“His style is his way or no way “

jan valery .

I'm just remembering the ridiculous comments I received on here for saying this exact thing a few months ago. 

[skintsaint]

15 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

So Jan valery in an interview this week has come out and said that Ralph wouldn’t speak to him or any young players 1 to 1 .. he had his coaches speak to him/them .

 ..In a quote he said ‘ “you cannot change him he wouldn’t speak to me or other young players”

“His style is his way or no way “

jan valery .

IF true, doesn't bode well with our emphasis on young players coming in.

[Chris cooper]

1 minute ago, skintsaint said:

IF true, doesn't bode well with our emphasis on young players coming in.

Many an eyebrow raised it this one !unless valery having a dig at Ralph for not being more involved! If true tho is more than a worry! Full interview on saints extra!

[beatlesaint]

18 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

So Jan valery in an interview this week has come out and said that Ralph wouldn’t speak to him or any young players 1 to 1 .. he had his coaches speak to him/them .

 ..In a quote he said ‘ “you cannot change him he wouldn’t speak to me or other young players”

“His style is his way or no way “

jan valery .

Umm, not just young players I suspect. There’s a reason Redmond went from being a shoe in every week come what may to not even making the bench, why Adams couldn’t get a kick towards the end of last season, the weird reluctance to start Stuart Armstrong etc etc.

He is indeed a stubborn sod. I just wonder if he’s like that with his coaching staff how long the new First Team Coach will either last or run off and tell the owners that RH is impossible to work with?

I wonder if Maitland Niles has upset him already? Might find out tomorrow.

[S-Clarke]

1 hour ago, Chris cooper said:

So Jan valery in an interview this week has come out and said that Ralph wouldn’t speak to him or any young players 1 to 1 .. he had his coaches speak to him/them .

 ..In a quote he said ‘ “you cannot change him he wouldn’t speak to me or other young players”

“His style is his way or no way “

jan valery .

I don't have much time for players like him, who have had massive contributions to our shitness whilst they were here, then coming out after they’ve left to stick the boot in.

He was lucky he was given so many opportunities by the manager he criticises, he was never good enough for the top level so he should thank himself lucky he had a manager who was prepared to give him a chance and develop another string to his bow by playing third CB.

He should spend more time trying to figure out why he was caught out of position 90% of the time.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

I don't have much time for players like him, who have had massive contributions to our shitness whilst they were here, then coming out after they’ve left to stick the boot in.

He was lucky he was given so many opportunities by the manager he criticises, he was never good enough for the top level so he should thank himself lucky he had a manager who was prepared to give him a chance and develop another string to his bow by playing third CB.

He should spend more time trying to figure out why he was caught out of position 90% of the time.

Agreed - he should look to himself, as we all should, to examine his own failings and shortcomings. Only then can he improve.

However, football teams have managers for a reason. One of those reasons is to be a leader. A person who can form relationships with his players, understand them and get the best out of each and every one. Fergie was pretty much a master of this. It's called man management. Ralph appears not to have this in his skillset. Compare this to Poch and how he managed our players.

[The Cat]

47 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

Umm, not just young players I suspect. There’s a reason Redmond went from being a shoe in every week come what may to not even making the bench, why Adams couldn’t get a kick towards the end of last season, the weird reluctance to start Stuart Armstrong etc etc.

He is indeed a stubborn sod. I just wonder if he’s like that with his coaching staff how long the new First Team Coach will either last or run off and tell the owners that RH is impossible to work with?

I wonder if Maitland Niles has upset him already? Might find out tomorrow.

There was a definite clash between Redmond and the manager. Let's just say that Redmond likes to speak his mind.

[S-Clarke]

3 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Agreed - he should look to himself, as we all should, to examine his own failings and shortcomings. Only then can he improve.

However, football teams have managers for a reason. One of those reasons is to be a leader. A person who can form relationships with his players, understand them and get the best out of each and every one. Fergie was pretty much a master of this. It's called man management. Ralph appears not to have this in his skillset. Compare this to Poch and how he managed our players.

You always hear stuff like this when it's ''not going well'' though. A few months ago Bednarek was claiming Ralph could manage any club in the world.

He's stubborn for sure, but you can probably put that on a lot of managers.  And re: Fergie, this is the same bloke who threw a boot at David Beckham and fell out with players quite often...!

[Turkish]

Just now, S-Clarke said:

You always hear stuff like this when it's ''not going well'' though. A few months ago Bednarek was claiming Ralph could manage any club in the world.

He's stubborn for sure, but you can probably put that on a lot of managers.  And re: Fergie, this is the same bloke who threw a boot at David Beckham and fell out with players quite often...!

The difference being Fergie was probably the best manager the UK has ever seen and usually right, Ralph isn't and usually wrong.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

11 minutes ago, Turkish said:

The difference being Fergie was probably the best manager the UK has ever seen and usually right, Ralph isn't and usually wrong.

Also, yes Fergie did fall out with players. Roy Keane apparently hates him (I think he pretty much hates everyone). But the vast bulk of players love him to this day.

As you say, if Ralph was right more often right than wrong, nobody would care if he is stubborn. 

If it's true that Ralph wouldn't speak directly to players and form relationships with them, then to me he isn't doing one of the basics of the job he's being paid for.

[hypochondriac]

19 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

You always hear stuff like this when it's ''not going well'' though. A few months ago Bednarek was claiming Ralph could manage any club in the world.

He's stubborn for sure, but you can probably put that on a lot of managers.  And re: Fergie, this is the same bloke who threw a boot at David Beckham and fell out with players quite often...!

I was told ages ago that Ralph has a serious problem with man management and communication. The source was someone who works with the players and it was multiple players who complained that they were dropped and not told why. Rohl was a huge loss because he was the link between the management and the players. Its got nothing to do with doing badly or doing well, it's been commented on for ages and some people dismissed it on here as sour grapes from certain players who weren't getting picked. It's not. 

[Dman]

21 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

You always hear stuff like this when it's ''not going well'' though. A few months ago Bednarek was claiming Ralph could manage any club in the world.

 

If I was as poor as Bednerak and was being selected as a first choice for a PL side, I’d be right up the managers arse as well….

Weird that Bednerak didn’t want to stick around amd play under a manager of his skill set then, isn’t it! 

[hypochondriac]

In fact here's an extract from a post of mine from a few years ago: 

Leicester.

 

After the 9-0 and before the Everton game there was a big crisis meeting with about 600 staff addressed by Martin selmayr. Apparently he is miles better than krueger and Ross and has taken more of a responsibility in football matters. He was very honest and said that apparently we were incredibly close to signing about 5 of the Leicester team - Maddison in particular changed his mind at the last minute- and he emphasised the fine line between success and failure. Ralph was ready to walk after Leicester and offered his resignation but the club decided that they didn't want him to leave. Martin said that a manager should only leave if they had lost the players and they didn't believe that this was the case so they were determined to back him. He said that whilst he was in charge, never again would players be signed on the say so of one person (meaning carillo.)

 

The academy bloke who left for England and due to start in February has been all over the club recently and apparently is an incredibly positive appointment as he knows the club and will return things to higher standards and remove some of the department heads if not performing. Jaidi apparently is still working for the club and there may be an expectation that he has gone to learn in America and will return in the future.

 

Ralph.

 

Decided to come to the club and use us largely as a stepping stone. Came in and promised to stay and get us up the table but then wants to move on. Unlikely to stay for too long if we have some success.

 

Lost rohl once he knew bayern wanted him. Big loss because he was the link between Ralph and the players. Even now Ralph is slightly isolated. Ralph really doesn't trust many of the hangers on like coles and kelvin. If you notice he rarely interacts with them and doesn't do much conferring on match days other than with the bald guy (can't remember his name.)

[Dman]

It’s a really interesting point Valery made about confidence. 
 

It’s probably why we go on ridiculous bad runs of form and crumble under pressure. When confidence is low, Ralph doesn’t have the skill set to lift it. 
 

It’s a big issue. 

[hypochondriac]

Here's another bit. Interesting to revisit even if most of the people involved are no longer here: 

The players

 

Many of the players have had and in some cases continue to have incredibly poor attitudes. There's been a marked decrease in commitment from a few seasons ago. Players were told to come to a sponsors event in November and were told that any players who did not attend would be fined £7k. Out of twenty odd players, only 7 showed up including jwp and ings. Certain departments have been told not to do anything too in depth with Bertrand which suggests he is off. He apparently has a poor attitude and was why he wasn't being played much at the start of the season.

 

Charlie Austin is a gigantic b*llend. Made sexually suggestive and lewd comments to female staff members and was generally a ball bag. Most in the club very pleased to see the back of him

 

Danso was really signed for potential and was worth a punt. Apparently has a 3.5 million fee if we decide to keep him. View of the club is that he has a lot of potential and may be worth it for such a small outlay.

[Saint86]

On 29/09/2022 at 02:18, skintsaint said:

Oh god....imagine that. 😅

Don't worry, after another failed tournament, Southgate won't be anywhere near a premier league appointment.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

I was told ages ago that Ralph has a serious problem with man management and communication. The source was someone who works with the players and it was multiple players who complained that they were dropped and not told why. Rohl was a huge loss because he was the link between the management and the players. Its got nothing to do with doing badly or doing well, it's been commented on for ages and some people dismissed it on here as sour grapes from certain players who weren't getting picked. It's not. 

Interesting Hypo. Your other quotes demonstrate that the players still backed him even after the 9-0's? Or as least that was the internal view. Which is interesting and positive in fairness. He may well have a man management issue, but i think that (and the lack of trust in / ability of the support coaches) has been addressed hopefully this summer. Results and performances have been pretty reasonable so far this season. We're neutral after a fairly tough start and you'd like to think that such a young team (with so many changes) will start to gel and develop as the season goes on... Still think he's one the fence Job security wise - we don't know what the expectation is from the board, but at some point the form has to go one way or the other. Time will tell!

Edited 30 September, 2022 by Saint86

[hypochondriac]

32 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Interesting Hypo. Your other quotes demonstrate that the players still backed him even after the 9-0's? Or as least that was the internal view. Which is interesting and positive in fairness. He may well have a man management issue, but i think that (and the lack of trust in / ability of the support coaches) has been addressed hopefully this summer. Results and performances have been pretty reasonable so far this season. We're neutral after a fairly tough start and you'd like to think that such a young team (with so many changes) will start to gel and develop as the season goes on... Still think he's one the fence Job security wise - we don't know what the expectation is from the board, but at some point the form has to go one way or the other. Time will tell!

That's a fair comment. For me I feel a frustration because I believe that we could be performing better with a different manager. It's frustrating how inconsistent we are and as someone else mentioned some of that could be due to our lack of confidence and the manager being unable to get the players to really believe for long periods of time. I genuinely think he will be gone soon be that over the next few months or at the end of the season. 

[Alan Sugarfree]

He’s definitely getting things right, after having no money to strengthen our weak defence for several years, we are only losing games one nil now.

Ralph in for me.

[danjosaint]

Thats ok as long as losing only 1v0 we wont get relegated

Edited 30 September, 2022 by danjosaint

[Convict Colony]

One thing I definitely think we can hold against either Ralph or this system is that we have never been free scoring.

It's always "we will work on this" etc when it's brought up but it's really hard to have any confidence over the years that we go behind we can get back into the game.

Not sure if Leeds and Lecister were flukes and Villa was a return to the norm but I expect a lot from today to show me which path we are on.

Expect a 6-0 from us now.

[Turkish]

We are now on a worse run now than even in Pellegrinos time here. 12 points from our last 20 league games, 3 dreadful loses against teams we should be getting points against. 
 

he has to go immediately 

[FarehamSaintJames]

Ok so, who do we want to replace Ralph after he’s got us relegated?

Because we all know this board won’t sack him. We could be bottom three all season and they won’t change.

[MAY-Z]

Just now, Turkish said:

We are now on a worse run now than even in Pellegrinos time here. 12 points from our last 20 league games, 3 dreadful loses against teams we should be getting points against. 
 

he has to go immediately 

It’s got to the point now where I don’t even care.

[SNSUN]

Where's that vote thread, I would like to amend mine to OUT NOW.

 

Who for? Well his assistant can step in for now. Surely there is a manager out there though that can come in, see our best formation and starting XI and just play it, without all this chopping and changing. Ralph has played GOD knows how many formations recently, he just hasn't got a clue what our best formation is let alone our strongest XI.

 

City next and we should all be shitting our collective pants.

[egg]

7 minutes ago, Turkish said:

We are now on a worse run now than even in Pellegrinos time here. 12 points from our last 20 league games, 3 dreadful loses against teams we should be getting points against. 
 

he has to go immediately 

Yep. Get him gone now. Enough is enough.

[Saint86]

Think this Everton game was probably the one he absolutely couldn't afford to lose.

He's utterly lost his way as a manager, came in playing a distinctive attacking 4-2-2-2 with a high press and the ability to beat teams. I don't even know what we've been doing these past 3 games.

I wouldn't blame the board if they were approaching another manager now and got the paperwork done whilst Ralph gets the team ready for city.

Urgh, we have to play city away next. Going to be grim.

[Turkish]

Just now, Saint86 said:

Think this Everton game was probably the one he absolutely couldn't afford to lose.

He's utterly lost his way as a manager, came in playing a distinctive attacking 4-2-2-2 with a high press and the ability to beat teams. I don't even know what we've been doing these past 3 games.

I wouldn't blame the board if they were approaching another manager now and got the paperwork done whilst Ralph gets the team ready for city.

Urgh, we have to play city away next. Going to be grim.

Get him out now and give it to Selles temporarily, we won’t get anything at city whoever is in charge, although you’d hope they have a few candidates in mind already