Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Bad Wolf]

25 minutes ago, Toussaint said:

I feel he is the epitome  "the emperor's new clothes", I often wonder if it's me being a modern football philistine, because at times I watch us and i really haven't a clue what is going on and who is supposed to be doing what, I don't even know what a 4 2 2 2 is in reality. I'm not sure the players do either. It all seems massively overcomplicated amd most times not very enjoyable to watch.

Tbh I'm not sure formations really exist in the PL (and to a lesser extent The Championship) because of all the pressing and moving that goes on these days. Take KWP, how often is he actually in the RB position (or LB if he's playing there)? He's all over the shop (in a good way)

[Toussaint]

11 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Tbh I'm not sure formations really exist in the PL (and to a lesser extent The Championship) because of all the pressing and moving that goes on these days. Take KWP, how often is he actually in the RB position (or LB if he's playing there)? He's all over the shop (in a good way)

Not specifically KWP, but its not always in a good way, most recently Villa away would be an example, we managed to make them look like Real Madrid in their heyday, we were dragged all over the place with massive holes on our left, even more recently Chelsea was and absolute shambles. When it works its good, when it doesn't work in can be catastrophic.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

2 hours ago, Toussaint said:

I feel he is the epitome  "the emperor's new clothes", I often wonder if it's me being a modern football philistine, because at times I watch us and i really haven't a clue what is going on and who is supposed to be doing what, I don't even know what a 4 2 2 2 is in reality. I'm not sure the players do either. It all seems massively overcomplicated amd most times not very enjoyable to watch.

Whilst I agree it's all a bit all over the place, I think people forget what he inherited and where we are now compared to where we were when Mark Hughes was sacked.  Ralph's an odd manager in terms of results but we are better than we were and we also have a younger, more talented squad than we did before.

The 9-0s smart though.

[Toussaint]

1 hour ago, Jeremy Corbyn said:

Whilst I agree it's all a bit all over the place, I think people forget what he inherited and where we are now compared to where we were when Mark Hughes was sacked.  Ralph's an odd manager in terms of results but we are better than we were and we also have a younger, more talented squad than we did before.

The 9-0s smart though.

They do, but making Villa look like Barca, (for contect look at their performances either side of us) , and Chelsea really could have been double digits against our 11, not 10, also smart. 

Edited 25 April, 2022 by Toussaint

[Holmes_and_Watson]

7 hours ago, Christophenburg said:

Too much attention is played to the playbook being Ralph's, I really don't think it is, it's just that Ralph as a manager fits the model - i.e. high pressing, youth development etc. There's no reason Ralph couldn't become our Rangnick (the Red Bull Rangnick not the United Rangnick...).

There are plenty of clubs and plenty of managers that offer essentially the same thing Ralph does to lesser or greater success, and there are certainly some managers who absolutely don't and wouldn't fit at all at Saints despite what some fans keep thinking. Personally I think Niko Kovac would be a good fit but I think that's pretty unlikely. I'd have assumed that someone like Nagelsmann, Marco Rose or Lucien Favre would be dream choices for the board if money were no object.

While I'm sure it wasn't written without plenty of sources, he did spend his lockdown putting a book together. Unless my memory cell is faulty.  I was thinking of it more as game tactics. It might well spread to a number of areas in the club. And there it would align with the key goals of the club: spend little, sell big, hope that the academy can produce some players, if not nab them as they're leaving other academies, look to nab the next Sancho. 🙂

I agree there's no reason why he couldn't step up. The issues he had previously would hopefully temper his relationship to the incoming manager.

Normally, I'd be all over a resilient club structure. But when I read the post I was picturing Ralph arguing with the new guy, because he dumped the playbook early, when it clearly wasn't working, avoiding a crushing defeat and nicking a win. 🙂

[Bad Wolf]

3 hours ago, Toussaint said:

They do, but making Villa look like Barca, (for contect look at their performances either side of us) , and Chelsea really could have been double digits against our 11, not 10, also smart. 

Any game COULD have been double figures. The fact is, it wasn't double figures. It was 6. Awful score line, awful performance but United COULD have scored 4 or 5 in the 76 cup final but they didn't.

[Wade Garrett]

I thought the new owner brought someone in from Brentford to do the ‘upstairs’ job.

I also reckon he will be a better judge of Ralph as a football manager than the other executives at the club.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

6 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

I thought the new owner brought someone in from Brentford to do the ‘upstairs’ job.

I also reckon he will be a better judge of Ralph as a football manager than the other executives at the club.

Ankersen I think is CEO of sports Republic as a group. Should be plenty of overlap with DOF, which was jointly at Brentford.

[Matthew Le God]

22 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

You may be right of course. I'd have no problem with him stepping into a director of football style role and hiring a manager who can properly get the players motivated and committed for the entire game, Adkins style.

Saints already have a director of football... Matt Crocker

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/matt-crocker-938872188

Job title = Director of Football Operations 

I think he seems (from the outside) to be doing a pretty decent job since he returned from his role with the FA.

Does he really need replacing?

Edited 25 April, 2022 by Matthew Le God

[Dman]

32 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Any game COULD have been double figures. The fact is, it wasn't double figures. It was 6. Awful score line, awful performance but United COULD have scored 4 or 5 in the 76 cup final but they didn't.

If it was a one off, you could probably brush it under the carpet a little easier. However these performances and these poor runs seemingly happen every single season. 
 

We’ve shipped 9 in consecutive seasons and if we’re all honest, we’re extremely fortunate that Chelsea didn’t do the same again this season.

 

A lot of head in sand with your above comment there. 

[Bad Wolf]

32 minutes ago, Dman said:

If it was a one off, you could probably brush it under the carpet a little easier. However these performances and these poor runs seemingly happen every single season. 
 

We’ve shipped 9 in consecutive seasons and if we’re all honest, we’re extremely fortunate that Chelsea didn’t do the same again this season.

 

A lot of head in sand with your above comment there. 

I appreciate that. As an autistic person, I often jump to 'extremes' and struggle with context. Point taken.

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Any game COULD have been double figures. The fact is, it wasn't double figures. It was 6. Awful score line, awful performance but United COULD have scored 4 or 5 in the 76 cup final but they didn't.

True, but what is more relevant about this “could have” is Chelsea hit the woodwork 3 times, I think, and put the cue in the rack on 60 minutes with their champions league game in mind.

[Charlie Wayman]

22 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

The plan has been to implement a strategy beyond Ralph leaving that builds on what he starts. It's what the RB clubs all do and it's why they have such sustained long term success.

Trouble with that is we are not having much success with Ralph's "playbook" anyway so sustaining that long term has no appeal whatsoever. Tell me what is worth keeping if he leaves?

[danjosaint]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

If it was a one off, you could probably brush it under the carpet a little easier. However these performances and these poor runs seemingly happen every single season. 
 

We’ve shipped 9 in consecutive seasons and if we’re all honest, we’re extremely fortunate that Chelsea didn’t do the same again this season.

 

A lot of head in sand with your above comment there. 

It wasn't even the Leicester Utd or Chelsea results,  the Burnley result could've been embarrassing, last season we done the same against Leeds and West brom,  missed couple of early chances then fell to bits, iirc West Brom and leeds should've both scored at least 6, that is shocking ,poor squad, injuries, dodgy var decisions blah blah blah, the soft underbelly and shit tactics are all on Ralph

[FarehamSaintJames]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but looks like Poch will be available soon 👀

[Sarisbury Saint]

11 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but looks like Poch will be available soon 👀

If only 🙏 

[Dman]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

I appreciate that. As an autistic person, I often jump to 'extremes' and struggle with context. Point taken.

You made a fairly decent point to be fair mate and as you said, all that matters at the end of the day is the result. Sunday and last Saturday being an example of that, not playing all that well but doing what’s needed to get a result of some kind. 
 

for me, I think a one off heavy defeat (however bad it may be) could be put down to a bit of bad luck or just being off on the night, but for it to happen 3 times now (including Chelsea as I honestly think we were lucky to only concede 6), suggest there is a fundamental issue somewhere. 

[Dman]

1 hour ago, danjosaint said:

It wasn't even the Leicester Utd or Chelsea results,  the Burnley result could've been embarrassing, last season we done the same against Leeds and West brom,  missed couple of early chances then fell to bits, iirc West Brom and leeds should've both scored at least 6, that is shocking ,poor squad, injuries, dodgy var decisions blah blah blah, the soft underbelly and shit tactics are all on Ralph

Agree. 

As much as I’ve given him shit and was unhappy at our form the back end of last season, I kinda deep down, accepted that we had a rotten run of injuries which would have contributed to that. 

A year on, we’re seeing the exact same issues. 

He’s been here what, 3 1/2 years now and I honestly don’t think we’ve seen an improvement in the side, post his initial 6month bounce. If anything, I think we’re arguably getting worse. 

[Chris cooper]

22 hours ago, Toussaint said:

Not specifically KWP, but its not always in a good way, most recently Villa away would be an example, we managed to make them look like Real Madrid in their heyday, we were dragged all over the place with massive holes on our left, even more recently Chelsea was and absolute shambles. When it works its good, when it doesn't work in can be catastrophic.

Was at villa .. boy it was bad !! 😖

[Chris cooper]

13 hours ago, Toussaint said:

True, but what is more relevant about this “could have” is Chelsea hit the woodwork 3 times, I think, and put the cue in the rack on 60 minutes with their champions league game in mind.

With a striker who couldn’t hit a donkeys arse with a banjo all season .. the last time Werner scored before that was us again at their gaff!

[aintforever]

13 hours ago, Dman said:

 

He’s been here what, 3 1/2 years now and I honestly don’t think we’ve seen an improvement in the side, post his initial 6month bounce. If anything, I think we’re arguably getting worse. 

What a load of bollocks. The season before he joined we stayed up by the skin of our teeth, when Hughes left we were 18th.

Ralph has kept us safely mid-table despite spending relatively little, we've had some decent cup runs, played some great football and had the odd win against the big boys. I think the style we play and the players we have mean we're going to have the odd shocking result, it's not ideal but certainly not worth sacking him over.

Edited 26 April, 2022 by aintforever

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

What a load of bollocks. The season before he joined we stayed up by the skin of our teeth, when Hughes left we were 18th.

Ralph has kept us safely mid-table despite spending relatively little, we've had some decent cup runs, played some great football and had the odd win against the big boys. I think the style we play and the players we have mean we're going to have the odd shocking result, it's not ideal but certainly not worth sacking him over.

What a load of bollox…. From the person who didn’t obviously read the post. 
 

As I said, after his initial bounce when he came in (I.e we improved on Hughes, but haven’t since then). 

[Toussaint]

2 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

Was at villa .. boy it was bad !! 😖

So was I , and yes I have to agree

[aintforever]

45 minutes ago, Dman said:

What a load of bollox…. From the person who didn’t obviously read the post. 
 

As I said, after his initial bounce when he came in (I.e we improved on Hughes, but haven’t since then). 

Not sure why you expect us to keep getting better and better when there is little or no investment - where in the league should we be then?

[Adkins' Bus]

Even standing still is a good achievement in my eyes, given the level of investment. Probably only Norwich, Burnley, Watford and Brentford have invested the same or less than us over the last few years.

The likes of Newcastle (even before oil money), Wolves, Palace, Brighton, Villa, Leeds have invested a lot more than ourselves.

[Turkish]

14 hours ago, Dman said:

Agree. 

As much as I’ve given him shit and was unhappy at our form the back end of last season, I kinda deep down, accepted that we had a rotten run of injuries which would have contributed to that. 

A year on, we’re seeing the exact same issues. 

He’s been here what, 3 1/2 years now and I honestly don’t think we’ve seen an improvement in the side, post his initial 6month bounce. If anything, I think we’re arguably getting worse. 

Is it his squad yet?

[saint michael]

If you take it he has kept us up and never looked in danger this year then I think he deserves credit for this. We’ve comfortably achieved what probably was his target of staying up.  
 

I’ve supported saints for too many years to mention so my expectation isn’t unrealistic but I have to say he annoys the fuck out of me. Defence has been a problem since he has arrived and never been properly addressed. I mean tactically and coaching wise. Stats maybe show better this year slightly, but that can just be that the mix of teams are different this year. I don’t see any real development. 
 

starting teams, tactics and approach can be awful…that’s on him. I kinda know within a few mins what sort of game it’s going to be (Brighton was a cheery exception).  Signing Walcott permanently, what was that all about. Not changing team v Chelsea until 4 down, then taking Romeu off. 
 

his antics are that after one of the awful displays, he doesn’t come out and explain what went wrong and why and what he did to change them..he describes all the events we have just watched… we started slowly, the players didn’t track back, we were poor defensively, etc. etc. no shit Sherlock  

many have asked how good the squad is, and I too don’t really know, are they out performing or could another manager make a difference. It feels like a real fear to change him out because of this question. My belief is there needs to be more than one tactic, the one trick pony for me is awful.

 

[Chez]

 

15 hours ago, Dman said:

for me, I think a one off heavy defeat (however bad it may be) could be put down to a bit of bad luck or just being off on the night, but for it to happen 3 times now (including Chelsea as I honestly think we were lucky to only concede 6), suggest there is a fundamental issue somewhere. 

Against the top sides like Liverpool and City (and to a lesser extent Chelsea), a 5 nil defeat is almost par for the course. Those two sides create so many chances. Some days they go in, some days they don't. I don't see big defeats to them as significant at all. Getting smashed to pieces by the likes of WBA, Leeds, Villa and Burnley is far more concerning (even if the score lines have been less horrific). This has to be down to the way we set up and the way we play (and see ourselves as a team). 

Every dog has his day I guess, so even losing badly to a lessor team (when we are not all that ourselves) is not a sackable offence. If it happen a lot you have to go.

Have to say though, and my memory ain't great, over the last few years have we actually murdered many Prem sides ourselves? Completely dominated and somehow failed wto win by a hatful. Watford away maybe?  We haven't stuffed many teams in terms of scoreline over the last few years. I think it could easily have been 3, 4 or 5 against Brighton at SMS, but I don't think there have been many games like that. 

Maybe its my pessimism, but in a lot of the games we have got a result, I think we rode our luck a little, while in the game we lost I felt we got exactly what we deserved. Not all of course, but quite a few.

[Chez]

On 25/04/2022 at 11:16, Toussaint said:

I don't even know what a 4 2 2 2 is in reality. I'm not sure the players do either. 

Me neither. It's just a hipsters 4-4-2 isn't it? 

I do think the players know what they are doing when teas build slowly from the back (they don't always do that of course), but that doesn't mean it works as was showed at Arsenal when we did a full court press which seemed to be done perfectly, only for Arsenal to play the ball so well that they beat it and broke away to score a `total football' type goal against us.

[nta786]

2 minutes ago, Chez said:

 

Against the top sides like Liverpool and City (and to a lesser extent Chelsea), a 5 nil defeat is almost par for the course. Those two sides create so many chances. Some days they go in, some days they don't. I don't see big defeats to them as significant at all. Getting smashed to pieces by the likes of WBA, Leeds, Villa and Burnley is far more concerning (even if the score lines have been less horrific). This has to be down to the way we set up and the way we play (and see ourselves as a team). 

Every dog has his day I guess, so even losing badly to a lessor team (when we are not all that ourselves) is not a sackable offence. If it happen a lot you have to go.

Have to say though, and my memory ain't great, over the last few years have we actually murdered many Prem sides ourselves? Completely dominated and somehow failed wto win by a hatful. Watford away maybe?  We haven't stuffed many teams in terms of scoreline over the last few years. I think it could easily have been 3, 4 or 5 against Brighton at SMS, but I don't think there have been many games like that. 

Maybe its my pessimism, but in a lot of the games we have got a result, I think we rode our luck a little, while in the game we lost I felt we got exactly what we deserved. Not all of course, but quite a few.

I'd say we dominated Spurs away this season - to me our best performance of the season, it could have been 6 or 7-3 that game.

Let's not forget over the past year or two we tend to murder teams in the first half, only to run out of steam in the 2nd half and go on to lose that game.

There is a reason why since Ralph joined no other team has dropped more points from winning positions, we never capitalised on chances to make it 2-0... 

[Chez]

42 minutes ago, saint michael said:

If you take it he has kept us up and never looked in danger this year then I think he deserves credit for this. We’ve comfortably achieved what probably was his target of staying up.  

Fair point - and done so while having to slowly get rid of numerous millstones (transfer flops on high wages) that prevent rapid improvements. 

You only need to look at the wage bill league to see that we are pretty much on par in terms of actual league position.

[Chez]

6 minutes ago, nta786 said:

I'd say we dominated Spurs away this season - to me our best performance of the season, it could have been 6 or 7-3 that game.

Let's not forget over the past year or two we tend to murder teams in the first half, only to run out of steam in the 2nd half and go on to lose that game.

There is a reason why since Ralph joined no other team has dropped more points from winning positions, we never capitalised on chances to make it 2-0... 

Good point. We certainly did murder Spurs. I wonder if their fans are having similar discussions to us as they have been equally up and down.

Very good point also about the two halves. Maybe less so this season, but the two seasons before saw us destroy teams in the first half only to fade badly. We could well have been 3 or 4 up in many games. I forgot about that. We have been a very weird side under Ralph haven't we?

Edited 26 April, 2022 by Chez

[Toussaint]

On 24/04/2022 at 20:03, Sarisbury Saint said:

If JWP was sold this summer for £60m, I’d be interested in how well Ralph would re-invest.

I'd be interested to know how Ralph's game plan would work as it currently 100% depends on JWP playing every game, covering every position on the pitch, being the leading goal scorer and I think leading in assists ( I think). I'm not sure how you'd replace that for £60 million?

[Saint86]

On 24/04/2022 at 20:03, Sarisbury Saint said:

If JWP was sold this summer for £60m, I’d be interested in how well Ralph would re-invest.

We'd be idiots to settle for that. He's got 4 years remaining, is out captain and best player, and would be class for most teams. 

Plus he has every chance of going to the world Cup, where he might end up shining and raising the club profile. 

Rice has 2 years remaining and is being talked about as a £150m signing for city. 

Edited 26 April, 2022 by Saint86

[Saint86]

2 hours ago, Chez said:

Fair point - and done so while having to slowly get rid of numerous millstones (transfer flops on high wages) that prevent rapid improvements. 

You only need to look at the wage bill league to see that we are pretty much on par in terms of actual league position.

I am surprised so many posters think he has done a bad job tbh. We've been tipped for relegation every season and been clear of it at the end of every season, generally being in the mid / lower mid table bracket of teams. He's also improved the squad with next to no funds by shifting literal millstones, and done it whilst transitioning us to one of the youngest squads in the league - and with good potential. 

People are slating him for the 9-0s, kind of fair. But the second one was certainly a fluke, and the first one had mitigating circumstances let's be honest - plus he rallied back from that very impressively. And flip it around, we could do what Everton did against Liverpool - Park the bus and time waste for 90min, have no chance of winning the game, and look like we're going down with a whimper.

As for the dropped points, yeah also semi fair as he could set the team tactics and mentality to manage games better. But we've seen that more recently, and at least we've had a go and got ourselves into winning positions in those games, even if the small squad / lack of depth / setup hampered us in seeing them out. I guess opinions will vary as to whether fans think it is realistic for us to have been winning those games with the squad we've had. 

He deserves the summer under the new owners at any rate. Not even a doubt on that for me. Does that mean I don't think their aren't better managers out there? No. But there is no guarantee we'd find one or that it would work, and it's clear we've made progress under Ralph for me.

I'm personally excited for this summer as I feel like we're now only a few obvious signings away from having a good team. Whereas previous windows it's been critical that we improve basically all positions on the pitch. Getting a quality striker, a good GK, and a good no. 10 / creator will make us a very different proposition. 

Edited 26 April, 2022 by Saint86

[Sarisbury Saint]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

We'd be idiots to settle for that. He's got 4 years remaining, is out captain and best player, and would be class for most teams. 

Plus he has every chance of going to the world Cup, where he might end up shining and raising the club profile. 

Rice has 2 years remaining and is being talked about as a £150m signing for city. 

Wasn’t the point I was making, but yes I agree he is worth more.

[DT]

Thomas Frank is favourite (4-1) to be our next manager. Then again, Alan Pardew is next, followed by Frank Lampard. Hmmm

[trousers]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Thomas Frank is favourite (4-1) to be our next manager. Then again, Alan Pardew is next, followed by Frank Lampard. Hmmm

Surprised not to see Lord D's favourite, John Terry, make the top 3 

[Dman]

6 minutes ago, DT said:

Thomas Frank is favourite (4-1) to be our next manager. Then again, Alan Pardew is next, followed by Frank Lampard. Hmmm

We missed the boat not getting Eddie Howe when we had the chance. 

[DT]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

We missed the boat not getting Eddie Howe when we had the chance. 

Think there may still be a chance when they upgrade. 

[Dman]

9 minutes ago, DT said:

Think there may still be a chance when they upgrade. 

More than likely out of reach by then if their improvement trend continues at this rate. 

[The Kraken]

51 minutes ago, Dman said:

More than likely out of reach by then if their improvement trend continues at this rate. 

You’d certainly be mad to say he’s done anything other than a great job of turning them round. I don’t think he’ll stay at Newcastle in the medium to long term but their form of late has been excellent.

[Saint Garrett]

JWP has got to be £100m bracket now, especially given Rice is being talked about £150m. Which is obscene btw. 

I wouldn’t accept £60m for him, no chance. 

[Bad Wolf]

16 minutes ago, Saint Garrett said:

JWP has got to be £100m bracket now, especially given Rice is being talked about £150m. Which is obscene btw. 

I wouldn’t accept £60m for him, no chance. 

£100M plus a suitable replacement

[Bad Wolf]

1 hour ago, Dman said:

We missed the boat not getting Eddie Howe when we had the chance. 

No we didn't. He's an utter fraud of a manager and right nasty piece of work. I'd genuinely rather bring back Harry Redknapp than have that smarmy little b4astard anywhere near our club.

[Bad Wolf]

On 25/04/2022 at 20:52, FarehamSaintJames said:

Not sure if it’s been mentioned but looks like Poch will be available soon 👀

Yes please. I don't want Ralph out but if Poch was available and wanted to come back, I'd chop Ralph.

[Toussaint]

33 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

No we didn't. He's an utter fraud of a manager and right nasty piece of work. I'd genuinely rather bring back Harry Redknapp than have that smarmy little b4astard anywhere near our club.

How'd did you come to that conclusion? 

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Toussaint said:

How'd did you come to that conclusion? 

I’ve heard the ‘fraud’ accusation quite a lot, it’s quite common. Don’t get it myself. 

[Turkish]

58 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

You’d certainly be mad to say he’s done anything other than a great job of turning them round. I don’t think he’ll stay at Newcastle in the medium to long term but their form of late has been excellent.

that's what happens when you can bring in 5 world class players though right?

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

that's what happens when you can bring in 5 world class players though right?

Indeed. It’s a guaranteed way to success. Years ago an unwise old man always used to talk about Alex Ferguson and say that “it’s an easy job and anyone can do it, all he’s got to do is spend money”.