Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Ted Bates Statue]

7 hours ago, Turkish said:

If we can somehow scrap 4 more wins from somewhere across our last 7 games we are on course to match our total wins during the boring old Claudes season of 16/17. Still need 4 more goals though. For those that love a stat, boring old Claude who set us all to sleep we had 550 shots at goal during his season, last season under Super Ralph we had 424. 

Interesting point although this site has different figures, possibly your numbers include cup matches as that would account for an approximate 20% difference.

https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/47/stats/season/10418/teams/ontarget_scoring_att_team

Incidentally, I have been noting that our win percentage in the league has been very close under the two managers.

 

[Turkish]

27 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Interesting point although this site has different figures, possibly your numbers include cup matches as that would account for an approximate 20% difference.

https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/47/stats/season/10418/teams/ontarget_scoring_att_team

Incidentally, I have been noting that our win percentage in the league has been very close under the two managers.

 

this is what i used premier league only Southampton FC Statistics | Premier League

 

[Chez]

23 hours ago, TWar said:

Regarding the debt, I dunno what's going on with it but the club said it shouldn't effect transfers.

We currently pay £10m in interest and that's before we even start paying the debt down. Doesn't mean we wont have funds (players sales will dictate that), it just means we are minus £10m before we start each year and when we do start paying it off, available funds will be reduced further.

It WILL effect transfers in that we have less to spend, but that will already be factored into their thoughts, allowing them to say stuff to the media like "it wont effect transfers".

[TWar]

23 minutes ago, Chez said:

We currently pay £10m in interest and that's before we even start paying the debt down. Doesn't mean we wont have funds (players sales will dictate that), it just means we are minus £10m before we start each year and when we do start paying it off, available funds will be reduced further.

It WILL effect transfers in that we have less to spend, but that will already be factored into their thoughts, allowing them to say stuff to the media like "it wont effect transfers".

Might be the new owners have already paid it off and that's why the deal was so cheap.

[Dman]

25 minutes ago, Chez said:

We currently pay £10m in interest and that's before we even start paying the debt down. Doesn't mean we wont have funds (players sales will dictate that), it just means we are minus £10m before we start each year and when we do start paying it off, available funds will be reduced further.

It WILL effect transfers in that we have less to spend, but that will already be factored into their thoughts, allowing them to say stuff to the media like "it wont effect transfers".

Didn’t they say that we’d pretty much continue to operate the same, sustainable, model. Therefore any incomings will need to be balanced with outgoings.

[John D]

8 hours ago, TWar said:

Might be the new owners have already paid it off and that's why the deal was so cheap.

Whilst after year old end it is a sizeable enough transaction to be disclosed as a post year old event I would have thought. 

[once_bitterne]

On 12/04/2022 at 09:40, DT said:

He’s still here then. So that sort of result is fine. Jeez. Reading Che’s comments they are so blasé.  Oh they finished their chances and we didn’t. I swear everyone at the club is shiteblind

Did you honestly think he'd be sacked?  So we got thrashed by one of the big boys. It's happened pretty regularly over the past 30 years...

We're a PL club with very limited finances, the only teams we are on a par with financially are the promoted 3, Palace, Brighton and Burnley.  We have 36 points with 7 games to go and are 12 points ahead of the relegation spots.

We've also had a manager who has been battling since he got here to dig the club out of the financial hole dug by Reed/Kreuger with the tens of millions wasted on Hoedt, Lemina, Carrillo, Boufal, Elywotsit, etc, etc, etc most of whom we have been paying obscene wages to as they jog around the pitch for other clubs.

How much did Ralph get to spend in the January window to improve the team?  Oh yeah, that's right f'k all! 

Edited 13 April, 2022 by once_bitterne

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

Did you honestly think he'd be sacked?  So we got thrashed by one of the big boys. It's happened pretty regularly over the past 30 years...

We're a PL club with very limited finances, the only teams we are on a par with financially are the promoted 3, Palace, Brighton and Burnley.  We have 36 points with 7 games to go and are 12 points ahead of the relegation spots.

We've also had a manager who has been battling since he got here to dig the club out of the financial hole dug by Reed/Kreuger with the tens of millions wasted on Hoedt, Lemina, Carrillo, Boufal, Elywotsist, etc, etc, etc most of whom we have been paying obscene wages to as they jog around the pitch for other clubs.

How much did Ralph get to spend in the January window to improve the team?  Oh yeah, that's right f'k all! 

Im not even sure we can compete with Palace and Brighton. Palace spent c£80m lthis season without sales whilst we made a profit. Brighton made a profit as well but only because they sold Burn and got big money for Ben White. They've historically outspent us so i'd expect them to spend that money again this summer, over the last 5 years they've blown us out of the water and like Palace dont appear to have to sell to buy like we do.  In fact of all the clubs that have been in the premier league in the last five years the only ones that have a better/worse net spend than us are the current bottom 3, Bournemouth, Swansea and Brentford. Ridiculous considering we've been in the premier league for 10 years now.

[once_bitterne]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Im not even sure we can compete with Palace and Brighton. Palace spent c£80m lthis season without sales whilst we made a profit. Brighton made a profit as well but only because they sold Burn and got big money for Ben White. They've historically outspent us so i'd expect them to spend that money again this summer, over the last 5 years they've blown us out of the water and like Palace dont appear to have to sell to buy like we do.  In fact of all the clubs that have been in the premier league in the last five years the only ones that have a better/worse net spend than us are the current bottom 3, Bournemouth, Swansea and Brentford. Ridiculous considering we've been in the premier league for 10 years now.

The Champ and L1 is littered with clubs who have been on a par with us financially but been relegated from the PL.  It's amazing that, bar the big boys, we are now one of the longest tenured members of the PL.  It's laughable that some people think we should be sacking the manager given the points we have.

The PL is all about money, we will never compete at the top half of the table until we can change our ownership approach.  The new lot are just trying to achieve success using the same 'buy for £13m and sell two years later for £60m' approach that Kreuger thought he had mastered with Mane and VVD.  The reality is that for every one Mane you might be lucky enough to sign there are about 50 Leminas.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by once_bitterne

[TWar]

36 minutes ago, once_bitterne said:

The Champ and L1 is littered with clubs who have been on a par with us financially but been relegated from the PL.  It's amazing that, bar the big boys, we are now one of the longest tenured members of the PL.  It's laughable that some people think we should be sacking the manager given the points we have.

The PL is all about money, we will never compete at the top half of the table until we can change our ownership approach.  The new lot are just trying to achieve success using the same 'buy for £13m and sell two years later for £60m' approach that Kreuger had thought he had mastered with Mane and VVD.  The reality is that for every one Mane you might be lucky enough to sign there are about 50 Leminas.

Some on here don't like thinking about money. Saints should be in top half/europe despite spending 19th most in the league in the last 5 seasons and being 15th for purchase value. Howe should be commended for turning Newcastle around despite only spending the most money in europe and being 8th for purchase value.

The issue is money rules this game, any manager who overperforms purchase value is doing pretty well in my book and if we get 11-12th we'll be doing that pretty nicely given we are 15th for purchase value

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einkaufswert/wettbewerb/GB1

Note I say purchase value rather than squad value as the massive value of players like JWP is basically down to Ralph.

Obviously transfer fees aren't the only metric but wages tell a similar story.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by TWar

[farawaysaint]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

Some on here don't like thinking about money. Saints should be in top half/europe despite spending 19th most in the league in the last 5 seasons and being 15th for purchase value. Howe should be commended for turning Newcastle around despite only spending the most money in europe and being 8th for purchase value.

The issue is money rules this game, any manager who overperforms purchase value is doing pretty well in my book and if we get 11-12th we'll be doing that pretty nicely given we are 15th for purchase value

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einkaufswert/wettbewerb/GB1

Note I say purchase value rather than squad value as the massive value of players like JWP is basically down to Ralph.

Not sure I agree on JWP, he has shown promise for ages and I don’t think Ralph magically made him a superstar.

[TWar]

Just now, farawaysaint said:

Not sure I agree on JWP, he has shown promise for ages and I don’t think Ralph magically made him a superstar.

Disagree completely, before Ralph JWP was played in a completely different position and was linked with a £15m move to Watford which most on here were in favour of.

Now he's a holding mid, England International, we've already turned down double that (allegedly) and he is considered one of the best mids outside the top 3.

[The Kraken]

28 minutes ago, TWar said:

Howe should be commended for turning Newcastle around despite only spending the most money in europe and being 8th for purchase value.

I don’t think it’s unfair to commend Eddie Howe on the job he’s done so far. We all know that Newcastle are now playing with a loaded deck, but he has done a good job in turning them around. In fact, he’s done exactly the job that he was brought in to do, keep them up, he’s already pretty much done that.

I don’t think many people can see him being in position there any longer than another season (I personally think there’s a chance he could even be gone in the summer) but to say he hasn’t done a good job is churlish. Yes, he’s had a massive leg up with the money available to spend, and what he has done is not incredible. It doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be commended for it though, he’s done a good solid job.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t think it’s unfair to commend Eddie Howe on the job he’s done so far. We all know that Newcastle are now playing with a loaded deck, but he has done a good job in turning them around. In fact, he’s done exactly the job that he was brought in to do, keep them up, he’s already pretty much done that.

I don’t think many people can see him being in position there any longer than another season (I personally think there’s a chance he could even be gone in the summer) but to say he hasn’t done a good job is churlish. Yes, he’s had a massive leg up with the money available to spend, and what he has done is not incredible. It doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be commended for it though, he’s done a good solid job.

Yeah he's done alright, decent middle of the road job from an average manager. Some saying he is better than Ralph though off the basis off this and presumably his ability to get Bournemouth relegated after spending good money is a bit weird though.

[farawaysaint]

38 minutes ago, TWar said:

Disagree completely, before Ralph JWP was played in a completely different position and was linked with a £15m move to Watford which most on here were in favour of.

Now he's a holding mid, England International, we've already turned down double that (allegedly) and he is considered one of the best mids outside the top 3.

Well I always rated him anyway 😎

[Dman]

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

Yeah he's done alright, decent middle of the road job from an average manager. Some saying he is better than Ralph though off the basis off this and presumably his ability to get Bournemouth relegated after spending good money is a bit weird though.

He took bournemouth from the brink of relegation to the national league, to the premier league and kept them up for 4/5 seasons. 

As it happens, when he started to spend some money, is when it went tits up. 

He’s come in and done a very good job at Newcastle, transforming them from a side who hadn’t won 1 game under Bruce, playing a very, very negative style, to a solid mid table maybe even top half, side. 

He in his career has achieved just as much as Ralph has. 

Edited 13 April, 2022 by Dman

[TWar]

1 minute ago, farawaysaint said:

Well I always rated him anyway 😎

Yeah I always felt there was a decent player in there but he never had a position. Too lightweight for a DM, too slow for a winger, not good enough at dribbling for an AM/10. Ralph turning him into a holding mid/deep-lying playmaker by utilizing his previously unseen incredible fitness was a masterstroke imo.

[Turkish]

14 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

I don’t think it’s unfair to commend Eddie Howe on the job he’s done so far. We all know that Newcastle are now playing with a loaded deck, but he has done a good job in turning them around. In fact, he’s done exactly the job that he was brought in to do, keep them up, he’s already pretty much done that.

I don’t think many people can see him being in position there any longer than another season (I personally think there’s a chance he could even be gone in the summer) but to say he hasn’t done a good job is churlish. Yes, he’s had a massive leg up with the money available to spend, and what he has done is not incredible. It doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be commended for it though, he’s done a good solid job.

He's done a great job, despite what some of the nut jobs on here will say, hadn't they won 1 game when he took over? They definitely were heading for the drop anyway. People go on about the money but it's not like he's signed superstars, in Burn, Targett and Wood 3 sold premier league players but nothing better than that, Tripper has been injured from almost as soon as he got there and Guimeres has only made 4 starts i think. He did a great job at Bouremouth as well for most of his time there. Unfortuantely some people once they have made their mind they cant bare to give anyone any credit if that is a negative view of them whatever they do. Still reckon he'll be at St Marys as manager at some point.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by Turkish

[Dman]

Just now, Turkish said:

He's done a great job, despite what some of the nut jobs on here will say, hadn't they won 1 game when he took over? They definitely were heading for the drop anyway. People go on about the money but it's not like he's signed superstars, in Burn, Targett and Wood 3 sold premier league players but nothing better than that, Tripper has been injured from almost as soon as he got there and Guimeres has only made 4 starts i think. He did a great job at Bouremouth as well for most of his time there. Unfortuantely some people once they have made their mind they cant bare to give anyone any credit if that is a negative view of them whatever they do.

It’s a weird argument to right someone off purely because they were relegated. 
 

Martinez took Wigan down, now manager of the number 1 side in the world (Belgium), poch got sacked whilst Espanyol were bottom, even Southgate, took Middlesbrough down amd has since out performed any England manager since 66. 
 

It’s a ridiculous way of looking at things, however, as we know, mr War isn’t capable to interpreting anything outside a spreadsheet. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

He took bournemouth from the brink of relegation to the national league, to the premier league and kept them up for 4/5 seasons. 

As it happens, when he started to spend some money, is when it went tits up. 

He’s come in and done a very good job at Newcastle, transforming them from a side who won 1 game under Bruce, playing a very, very negative style, to a solid mid table maybe even top half, side. 

He in his career has achieved just as much as Ralph has. 

Ralph has managed in the CL and finished 2nd in a major league, behave. Far more impressive than winning games in the lower leagues with a lot of funding.

He didn't turn round Newcastle, they were just as shit from November to near the end of January. Between him taking over on the 8th of November and the 22nd of Jan he won 1 game, including notable losses to Cambridge united, a 4-0 battering by an at the time massively out of form Leicester, and a draw at Norwich.

They spend a load of money and after that start winning. Surprise surprise.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

It’s a weird argument to right someone off purely because they were relegated. 
 

Martinez took Wigan down, now manager of the number 1 side in the world (Belgium), poch got sacked whilst Espanyol were bottom, even Southgate, took Middlesbrough down amd has since out performed any England manager since 66. 
 

It’s a ridiculous way of looking at things, however, as we know, mr War isn’t capable to interpreting anything outside a spreadsheet. 

Martinez is also a crap manager, international management just doesn't hold the prestige it used to. Netherlands were managed by De Boer the same tournament. We have Southgate.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

It’s a weird argument to right someone off purely because they were relegated. 
 

Martinez took Wigan down, now manager of the number 1 side in the world (Belgium), poch got sacked whilst Espanyol were bottom, even Southgate, took Middlesbrough down amd has since out performed any England manager since 66. 
 

It’s a ridiculous way of looking at things, however, as we know, mr War isn’t capable to interpreting anything outside a spreadsheet. 

Even the greatest manager to ever walk the planet Rafa Benitez has been relegated!

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

Ralph has managed in the CL and finished 2nd in a major league, behave. Far more impressive than winning games in the lower leagues with a lot of funding.

He didn't turn round Newcastle, they were just as shit from November to near the end of January. Between him taking over on the 8th of November and the 22nd of Jan he won 1 game, including notable losses to Cambridge united, a 4-0 battering by an at the time massively out of form Leicester, and a draw at Norwich.

They spend a load of money and after that start winning. Surprise surprise.

Their 2 big signings have hardly played, so their money has been spent on Burn, Wood and Target. None of which would get in to our side. 

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

Ralph has managed in the CL and finished 2nd in a major league, behave. Far more impressive than winning games in the lower leagues with a lot of funding.

 

This is all relative though. Ralph took Lepzig to 2nd and in the champions league with a side that was far greater than expectation many of which the players have moved on to top clubs. 

Ralph, has also managed to embarrass the club on 2 (arguably 3) occasions now in 2 record 9-0 defeats. Something Howe hasn’t come close to. 
 

Not much in it imo, you could argue both have different strengths and different weakness. 

[Dman]

5 minutes ago, TWar said:

Martinez is also a crap manager, international management just doesn't hold the prestige it used to. Netherlands were managed by De Boer the same tournament. We have Southgate.

Martinez, another manager to achieve more than Ralph (FA Cup). 
De Boer, likewise, another manager to achieve more. 
Southgate, literally England’s best performing manager since 66… absolutely crap. 

[TWar]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

Their 2 big signings have hardly played, so their money has been spent on Burn, Wood and Target. None of which would get in to our side. 

Burn and Wood would walk into our side right now. Bednarek is dogshite and Burn has been great. Wood isn't exactly a goal machine but he's outscored Broja since joining Newcastle in significantly fewer minutes.

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Dman said:

Their 2 big signings have hardly played, so their money has been spent on Burn, Wood and Target. None of which would get in to our side. 

Chris Wood has scored two goals for Newcastle, one of which was against us. Target couldn't get into our team ahead of Bertrand and was Villas second choice left back, Burn was a squad player at Brighton, it's laughable people think these three signings are the reason Newcastles form have turned round. 

[The Kraken]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

They spend a load of money and after that start winning. Surprise surprise.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

[skintsaint]

I think Newcastle postponing a few games and disappearing to Dubai for a week really helped let Howe get his ideas/squad together, games were coming thick and fast over that period and managers can't I imagine change too much at training.

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

Burn and Wood would walk into our side right now. Bednarek is dogshite and Burn has been great. Wood isn't exactly a goal machine but he's outscored Broja since joining Newcastle in significantly fewer minutes.

Must have a good manager then.

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Must have a good manager then.

Wood has put up double digit hauls in the league for 4 years. It isn't Howe that unlocked him.

[Sarisbury Saint]

6 minutes ago, TWar said:

Wood has put up double digit hauls in the league for 4 years. It isn't Howe that unlocked him.

Still think Ellounoussi didn’t come back from Celtic a better player?

Still think Ralph has improved Bednarek ? 

[TWar]

13 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Still think Ellounoussi didn’t come back from Celtic a better player?

Still think Ralph has improved Bednarek ? 

1) Never thought that, but Ralph improved him more than playing in a substandard league did

2) Absolutely. Before Ralph turned up he was benched for Hoedt having been signed for £4m from the polish league. He's now a full international, Prem regular, and linked with moves to teams like Napoli. It's basically impossible not to think Ralph improved him if you know what he was like pre-Ralph.

Here is a graph of his market value from Transfermarkt with a beautifully drawn arrow pointing to when Ralph took over:

Edited 13 April, 2022 by TWar

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

1) Never thought that, but Ralph improved him more than playing in a substandard league did

2) Absolutely. Before Ralph turned up he was benched for Hoedt having been signed for £4m from the polish league. He's now a full international, Prem regular, and linked with moves to teams like Napoli. It's basically impossible not to think Ralph improved him if you know what he was like pre-Ralph.

1/ Ralph joined Saints in December 2018, Elynanoussi was part of his squad until June 2019 and showed absolutely zero signs of being premier league qualty, how come super Ralph wasn't able to wave his magic wand in December 2018 and transform him then? Why did he need to send him out on loan to a substandard league for two years with us no doubt picking up the tab for some of his wages whilst he contributed zip all for Saints?

2/ Earlier on you said "Bednarek is dogshite" now you'r banging on about him like he's some world beater, international player, prem regularler linked with Napoli. So which is it? All over the place again.

[The Kraken]

Bednarek was what, 20 or 21 when he came to Saints? Seems like he broke through with us in a similar time and way that Salisu did.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by The Kraken

[TWar]

10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

1/ Ralph joined Saints in December 2018, Elynanoussi was part of his squad until June 2019 and showed absolutely zero signs of being premier league qualty, how come super Ralph wasn't able to wave his magic wand in December 2018 and transform him then? Why did he need to send him out on loan to a substandard league for two years with us no doubt picking up the tab for some of his wages whilst he contributed zip all for Saints?

2/ Earlier on you said "Bednarek is dogshite" now you'r banging on about him like he's some world beater, international player, prem regularler linked with Napoli. So which is it? All over the place again.

I'm "all over the place" because you put words in my mouth I never said. I never said he is "a worldbeater", he is an ok lower midtable prem CB, would be fine at a team around 15-17th. We should want better. He was benched behind Hoedt for a team almost relegated. Definite improvement.

I dunno why Moi wasn't played December to June, maybe Ralph felt he had better options.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by TWar

[Sarisbury Saint]

8 minutes ago, Turkish said:

1/ Ralph joined Saints in December 2018, Elynanoussi was part of his squad until June 2019 and showed absolutely zero signs of being premier league qualty, how come super Ralph wasn't able to wave his magic wand in December 2018 and transform him then? Why did he need to send him out on loan to a substandard league for two years with us no doubt picking up the tab for some of his wages whilst he contributed zip all for Saints?

2/ Earlier on you said "Bednarek is dogshite" now you'r banging on about him like he's some world beater, international player, prem regularler linked with Napoli. So which is it? All over the place again.

Beat me to it.

[Turkish]

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Burn and Wood would walk into our side right now. Bednarek is dogshite and Burn has been great. Wood isn't exactly a goal machine but he's outscored Broja since joining Newcastle in significantly fewer minutes.

 

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I'm "all over the place" because you put words in my mouth I never said. I never said he is "a worldbeater", he is an ok lower midtable prem CB, would be fine at a team around 15-17th. We should want better. He was benched behind Hoedt for a team almost relegated. Definite improvement.

I dunno why he wasn't played December to June, maybe he felt he had better options.

No, you said Bennarek is dogshite. Heres the post. So is he dogshite or not? 

As for Elyanoussi Ralph had months to work with him before he went on loan, no improvement. Comes back from a 2 year loan and suddenly a much better player, yet it's all down to Ralph? Okay then.

 

[TWar]

8 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Bednarek was what, 20 or 21 when he came to Saints? Seems like he broke through with us in a similar time and way that Salisu did.

Salisu was starting for us at 20, Bednarek was benched for Hoedt at 22. He was still young, granted, but basically all his career growth was under Ralph and before that he wasn't particularly highly thought of at all.

[Sarisbury Saint]

25 minutes ago, TWar said:

1) Never thought that, but Ralph improved him more than playing in a substandard league did

2) Absolutely. Before Ralph turned up he was benched for Hoedt having been signed for £4m from the polish league. He's now a full international, Prem regular, and linked with moves to teams like Napoli. It's basically impossible not to think Ralph improved him if you know what he was like pre-Ralph.

Here is a graph of his market value from Transfermarkt with a beautifully drawn arrow pointing to when Ralph took over:

Is champion league sub standard.

Are VV, Foster and Wayamana sub standard ? They all played at that level before joining us.

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

 

No, you said Bennarek is dogshite. Heres the post. So is he dogshite or not? 

As for Elyanoussi Ralph had months to work with him before he went on loan, no improvement. Comes back from a 2 year loan and suddenly a much better player, yet it's all down to Ralph? Okay then.

 

It's not the dogshite bit I disagree with, it's the "worldbeater" bit. He is dogshite compared to the standard of the rest of our back 4 (all top 8 quality). But there are levels. Dogshite compared to Burn, which is the context of the quote, is not the same as being benched for Hoedt, arguably the worst CB we've seen in this prem era.

[Turkish]

Just now, TWar said:

It's not the dogshite bit I disagree with, it's the "worldbeater" bit. He is dogshite compared to the standard of the rest of our back 4 (all top 8 quality). But there are levels. Dogshite compared to Burn, which is the context of the quote, is not the same as being benched for Hoedt, arguably the worst CB we've seen in this prem era.

So Ralph has taken a player from being what level to being dogshite? 

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Salisu was starting for us at 20, Bednarek was benched for Hoedt at 22. He was still young, granted, but basically all his career growth was under Ralph and before that he wasn't particularly highly thought of at all.

And if it wasn’t for Lyanco getting injured just as he started showing form , he would be on the bench now.

 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Is champion league sub standard.

Are VV, Foster and Wayamana sub standard ? They all played at that level before joining us.

Getting good after leaving the scottish league is not proof the scottish league is good, we made those players good too. Also Moi played all of 180 mins in the CL qualifiers against KR Reykjavík and Ferencváros which I'm sure was very formative...

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Turkish said:

So Ralph has taken a player from being what level to being dogshite? 

Sub-Hoedt.

[Sarisbury Saint]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

Getting good after leaving the scottish league is not proof the scottish league is good, we made those players good too. Also Moi played all of 180 mins in the CL qualifiers against KR Reykjavík and Ferencváros which I'm sure was very formative...

What a load of bollocks, your defence of an argument is hilarious.

[The Kraken]

8 minutes ago, TWar said:

Salisu was starting for us at 20, Bednarek was benched for Hoedt at 22. He was still young, granted, but basically all his career growth was under Ralph and before that he wasn't particularly highly thought of at all.

Well,I don’t believe that’s true in the slightest. Bednarek played for all Poland youth levels 16-21 before making his debut full international appearance shortly after joining us. We paid £5m for a young prospect. Like Salisu, he wasnt expected to go straight into the first team. And, surely any saints fan who watched Hoedt play would have preferred Bednarek there instead, no matter how young he was! I don’t think we can look at the selection policies of our two previous managers as a benchmark of anything good at all! 
 

Bednarek’s career growth has happened under Ralph because he is now 25, and has grown into his role. Ralph has played a part, of course, but it would have been a significant failure if Bednarek had not have improved from where he was when Ralph took him under his wing. It’s not black and white, its not either or, but it’s very much a bit of both.

Edited 13 April, 2022 by The Kraken

[TWar]

Just now, Sarisbury Saint said:

What a load of bollocks, your defence of an argument is hilarious.

This is your defence, nothing. After claiming he played at a high level because of games against KR Reykjavík and Ferencváros

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, TWar said:

Getting good after leaving the scottish league is not proof the scottish league is good, we made those players good too. Also Moi played all of 180 mins in the CL qualifiers against KR Reykjavík and Ferencváros which I'm sure was very formative...

Why was Ralph unable to improve him when he first joined, before his loan spell?

[Turkish]

3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Well,I don’t believe that’s true in the slightest. Bednarek played for all Poland youth levels 16-21 before making his debut full international appearance shortly after joining us. We paid £5m for a young prospect. Like Salisu, he wasnt expected to go straight into the first team. And, surely any saints fan who watched Hoedt play would have preferred Bednarek there instead, no matter how young he was! I don’t think we can look at the selection policies of our two previous managers as a benchmark of anything good at all! 
 

Bednarek’s career growth has happened under Ralph because he is now 25, and has grown into his role. Ralph has played a part, of course, but it would have been a significant failure if Bednarek had not have improved from where he was when Ralph took him under his wing. It’s not black and white, its not either or, but it’s very much a bit of both.

Remember he's still dogshite though, so he's basically improved a player that was worse than that. I wouldn't be sticking that one on the CV if i was Ralph.