Ralph Hasenhuttl

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

has Ralph done well this season. I’d say on par with what you’d expect with our squad in this league. had we not had the run of form after Christmas to the middle / end of feb, then it would be a poor one. 

How can you say he has performed on par with what you'd expect when you expected 20th?

When you say "you" do you mean literally me, as in someone who didn't make a silly prediction? Because he's overperforming what I predicted too...

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

How can you say he has performed on par with what you'd expect when you expected 20th?

When you say "you" do you mean literally me, as in someone who didn't make a silly prediction? Because he's overperforming what I predicted too...

Yes, in hindsight 20th was a stupid prediction. 
 

I’m happy to admit I’m on the pessimistic side, so he’s outperformed my expectations. But this is a squad with 3 England internationals and many others who were being raved about. 

Our squad isn’t as bad as everyone likes to make out when we’re on a bad run. 
 

 

[TWar]

5 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Over the past 5 years Saints have been close to cash neutral for transfers in and out. We’ve basically spent only what we’ve brought in, we’ve been bottom or close to it every season in the net spend league.

Given that, how much are we expecting the team to improve?

Depends, when being negative about the team - 20th, when being negative about the manager within touching distance of top half is thoroughly unacceptable.

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

Yes, in hindsight 20th was a stupid prediction. 
 

I’m happy to admit I’m on the pessimistic side, so he’s outperformed my expectations. But this is a squad with 3 England internationals and many others who were being raved about. 

Our squad isn’t as bad as everyone likes to make out when we’re on a bad run. 
 

 

3 England internationals is meaningless, KWP and Forster are like 5th-6th choice in their respective positions at best.

20th was stupid, yes, and it's big of you to admit that so kudos. Genuinely.

However, the average prediction on here was about 15th-16th so if we get 10-14th which we likely will then that is a good achievement for him. It's easy to realign your expectations after a run like we had in Jan-Feb and then get all annoyed we didn't kick on and secure 9th but it is worth grounding yourself and remembering this is a team that was 15th last season and we lost 3 regulars including our top scorer.

Our current position is a massive acheivement and a ropey display against a team of the size and quality of chelsea doesn't change that.

[Dman]

Just now, TWar said:

3 England internationals is meaningless, KWP and Forster are like 5th-6th choice in their respective positions at best.

20th was stupid, yes, and it's big of you to admit that so kudos. Genuinely.

However, the average prediction on here was about 15th-16th so if we get 10-14th which we likely will then that is a good achievement for him. It's easy to realign your expectations after a run like we had in Jan-Feb and then get all annoyed we didn't kick on and secure 9th but it is worth grounding yourself and remembering this is a team that was 15th last season and we lost 3 regulars including our top scorer.

Our current position is a massive acheivement and a ropey display against a team of the size and quality of chelsea doesn't change that.

Mate, I don’t really know what you’re trying to get at. 
 

we’ve lost 9-0 twice and today could have easily have been 10. Were actually lucky it’s not. 
 

That may be acceptable to you, but to me it’s not. No matter how you dress it. 

[Lighthouse]

3 minutes ago, Dman said:

Our squad isn’t as bad as everyone likes to make out when we’re on a bad run

JWP, KWP, Livramento, Salisu, Perraud, Romeu, S. Armstrong, Adams and Broja are decent midtable players. That’s 9 out of the whole squad. The rest are substandard. The squad is better than it has been but we are still reliant on a large number of poor players.

[Adman]

This is embarrassing. We’re not entitled. And we have to take the rough with the smooth. No need for over reaction, we’ve tried that. It didn’t work on our way down the leagues.

[Dman]

1 minute ago, Lighthouse said:

JWP, KWP, Livramento, Salisu, Perraud, Romeu, S. Armstrong, Adams and Broja are decent midtable players. That’s 9 out of the whole squad. The rest are substandard. The squad is better than it has been but we are still reliant on a large number of poor players.

Those start effectively every week and we’re mid table. So we’re performing to our level, nothing better maybe slightly worse come the end of the season (where’s our next win coming from?)
 

I think there are many managers who could achieve the same with those said players. 

Edited 9 April, 2022 by Dman

[TWar]

Just now, Dman said:

Mate, I don’t really know what you’re trying to get at. 
 

we’ve lost 9-0 twice and today could have easily have been 10. Were actually lucky it’s not. 
 

That may be acceptable to you, but to me it’s not. No matter how you dress it. 

I'm trying to get at we are a team who don't spend much money built on the backbone of a relegation threatened team before Ralph came in.

We sell to buy, we have an OK squad but any quality in it was developed by Ralph because it sure as shit wasn't there under Hughes/Pellegrino and it sure as shit wasn't bought for big money.

Since Ralph came in we haven't approached relegation and we have overperformed expectations this season again. Surely you can see that, if you want to see expectations, just look at the season prediction thread.

These big losses might annoy you, they annoy me, but on the whole I'll take one or two woeful performances a season but safety and progress over what we had before. Especially given what we spend.

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

Those start effectively every week and we’re mid table. So we’re performing to our level, nothing better maybe slightly worse come the end of the season (where’s our next win coming from?)
 

I think there are many managers who could achieve the same with those said players. 

I'm a little confused, are we a midtable squad or not in your eyes. As Villa are the very definition of midtable and saying we are better than them you think is laughable?

[The Kraken]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

I'm trying to get at we are a team who don't spend much money built on the backbone of a relegation threatened team before Ralph came in.

We sell to buy, we have an OK squad but any quality in it was developed by Ralph because it sure as shit wasn't there under Hughes/Pellegrino and it sure as shit wasn't bought for big money.

Since Ralph came in we haven't approached relegation and we have overperformed expectations this season again. Surely you can see that, if you want to see expectations, just look at the season prediction thread.

These big losses might annoy you, they annoy me, but on the whole I'll take one or two woeful performances a season but safety and progress over what we had before. Especially given what we spend.

Sums it up for me.

Ralph has his flaws but I’ll take the ups and downs under him plus our one-a-season bumming if it means we actually get a few games a season to be proud of.   Which we do.

[Harry_SFC]

19 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Over the past 5 years Saints have been close to cash neutral for transfers in and out. We’ve basically spent only what we’ve brought in, we’ve been bottom or close to it every season in the net spend league.

Given that, how much are we expecting the team to improve?

I understand that and to be fair Ralph hasn't had a great deal to work with but what concerns me is that he doesn't seem to learn lessons from previous defeats. For me it was pretty obvious we should've switched to a 3 at the back a lot sooner than we did. In fact we played that formation away to Chelsea in the League Cup and it worked pretty well.

[The Kraken]

Just now, Harry_SFC said:

I understand that and to be fair Ralph hasn't had a great deal to work with but what concerns me is that he doesn't seem to learn lessons from previous defeats. For me it was pretty obvious we should've switched to a 3 at the back a lot sooner than we did. In fact we played that formation away to Chelsea in the League Cup and it worked pretty well.

Don’t disagree with that, his inability to shut up shop is his biggest failing IMO.

[Whitey Grandad]

49 minutes ago, TWar said:

I don't think the Perraud thing has much impact. KWP was great today and Livramento made some good runs and pushed us up the pitch. Our CBs and CMs were crap, I think the logic off "if KWP was on the right and Perraud was on the left today it would have gone better" is a fantasy. The fullbacks weren't remotely the issue. The CBs were the ones who kept fucking up and the mids.

Five of their six goal came from the gaping hole where our right back should have been. Perraud left back and KWP on the right please from now on.

[TWar]

Just now, Whitey Grandad said:

Five of their six goal came from the gaping hole where our right back should have been. Perraud left back and KWP on the right please from now on.

I disagree. Tino kept being left 2v1, he can't mark multiple men. Bednarek and Salisu were the ones who kept losing markers.

[Dman]

37 minutes ago, TWar said:

I'm a little confused, are we a midtable squad or not in your eyes. As Villa are the very definition of midtable and saying we are better than them you think is laughable?

We’ve got a mid table squad, who is currently mid table, but could, and on recent form form probably will, finish below mid table. 

We’ve got a squad that shouldn’t be losing 9-0 twice and having performances like today. Put it that way. Nothing to be confused about. 

Not sure why you’re mumbling on about Villa, but they will finish above us and probably will again next season (should nothing change).

[Sarisbury Saint]

44 minutes ago, TWar said:

3 England internationals is meaningless, KWP and Forster are like 5th-6th choice in their respective positions at best.

20th was stupid, yes, and it's big of you to admit that so kudos. Genuinely.

However, the average prediction on here was about 15th-16th so if we get 10-14th which we likely will then that is a good achievement for him. It's easy to realign your expectations after a run like we had in Jan-Feb and then get all annoyed we didn't kick on and secure 9th but it is worth grounding yourself and remembering this is a team that was 15th last season and we lost 3 regulars including our top scorer.

Our current position is a massive acheivement and a ropey display against a team of the size and quality of chelsea doesn't change that.

We’ve certainly done better than I expected, but that could still change and as it stands, the momentum is heading that way.

My worry is that next season we might not get a purple patch and we’ll be right in the shit.

[Dark Munster]

1 hour ago, Saint86 said:

Backed for 3-4 seasons 🤣🤣🤣

And how the hell can you say we haven't improved. Jesus talk about a biased outlook. We were utter dog when he took over, it's a miracle we are still in the league given the players he's had and what he's had to shift / spend. 

We don't have a good squad even now. It's improved but it's a work in progress. Losing to the European and world champions who were clearly due a reaction is not the biggest deal in the world. The sack Ralph brigade are on par with the lot that wanted sturrock over hoddle Puel sacked, and look how that turned out.

Unless there is a clear upgrade available you keep Ralph as its proven he'll keep us in the league, he wants to be here, and he'll work with what he's got to improve the squad and finances over the long term. 

Good points, but made a correction for you. 

(Luggy had a decent record for us. It went tits up then after he was forced out.)

Edited 9 April, 2022 by Dark Munster

[SaintsLoyal]

Thats it, time to go im afraid, he cant organize a team and must have the worst defensive record in the clubs history.

Edited 9 April, 2022 by SaintsLoyal

[Lighthouse]

53 minutes ago, Dman said:

Those start effectively every week and we’re mid table. So we’re performing to our level, nothing better maybe slightly worse come the end of the season (where’s our next win coming from?)
 

I think there are many managers who could achieve the same with those said players. 

What that effectively translates to is us having three passengers in our team (namely Bednarek, Moi and whichever 'keeper we put out) and little to change things on the bench others that mixing it up with the fullbacks. Ralph has clearly been getting the latter bit wrong lately but it's not like we have obviously better players to bring in.

Let me put it this way; I would look to replace Ralph but only after we've replaced Forster, McCarthy, Bednarek, Stephens, Moi, AArm, Long, Walcott, Redmond and Djenepo.

[AlexLaw76]

I wonder who he will pick in goal now that McCarthy is back in training

[Dark Munster]

3 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

I wonder who he will pick in goal now that McCarthy is back in training

Hopefully he won't drop FF, who was perhaps the only Saints player to come out of the game with any credit, and who saved us from a double digit defeat.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

As bad as Ralph can be, and on his worst days he puts out the worst teams in Saints history, I do think overall he gets more out of this squad than most people would expect. He has us consistently mid table on an absolute shoestring budget. That’s no attempt to defend today’s game, or even the last five games but the fact that Long and Elyounoussi are regulars for us shows how far away we are from squads like West Ham, Leicester and Villa, who all have players worth more than our record signing on the bench.

Good post, sums it up well. 

Sometimes it feels like the ones who want him sacked live in some alternative world where this squad should comfortably be mid table and challenging for Europe. No. 

Just wish some fans could get a dose of perspective and apreciate that their frustration at saints' progress might well stem from under investment, not this manager. 

Chances are whoever we replaced him with wouldn't get as much out of the squad nor be as loyal. Give him another season or 2 with the upwards trend on squad quality and see where we are. 

And besides any of that, his job is pretty damn safe post takeover, so no point getting to worked up about it. 

Edited 9 April, 2022 by Saint86

[The Kraken]

Net spend table over the past 5 years.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

We are absolutely miles behind our ‘peers’. The only sides with a lower net spend than us are going down this season.

[AlexLaw76]

2 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Net spend table over the past 5 years.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

We are absolutely miles behind our ‘peers’. The only sides with a lower net spend than us are going down this season.

from what I gather, that will not change much going forward.  

[TWar]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

from what I gather, that will not change much going forward.  

I dunno, there had been some suggestion we'll have a bit more money this summer

[bpsaint]

Regardless of net spend or squad value this is the same team we’ve had all season, so what is the reason for the sudden nosedive off a cliff in form. Is it as simple as the players are on the beach and lack the motivation to carry on pushing? What caused the drop off after beating Liverpool last season? There has to be some catalyst that is killing our run of form. How does Salisu suddenly wake up one morning and decide to channel his  inner Callum Davenport? 

Bring back the winter ball I say, it’s been downhill since that changed.

[Ted Bates Statue]

 

7 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

Net spend table over the past 5 years.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

We are absolutely miles behind our ‘peers’. The only sides with a lower net spend than us are going down this season.

 

11 minutes ago, TWar said:

I dunno, there had been some suggestion we'll have a bit more money this summer

Good points/ Our best bet is to outsmart other teams, not outspend them, and I do feel more confident that we can attempt that with Sports Republic. There will always be teams like Everton, Villa and Brighton blowing huge sums of money and ending up nowhere near challenging for Europe but instead bumbling around with us in mid-table or worse. West Ham would be in that group as well if it weren't for Moyes.

[Sarisbury Saint]

Gerrard out ! 4 nil down at home.

[Toadhall Saint]

[The Kraken]

Is that Jamie/dullDays/Batman/Alex’s work colleague?

[Sarisbury Saint]

Is Ralph capable of picking them up and putting in a strong performance against Arsenal ?

Players owe us after that shit show.

 

[Saint86]

10 hours ago, The Kraken said:

Net spend table over the past 5 years.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

We are absolutely miles behind our ‘peers’. The only sides with a lower net spend than us are going down this season.

Nah mate, it's Ralph's fault we're not challenging for Europe. Shit manager init. 

Nothing to do with impatient fans wanting him gone. 

Edited 10 April, 2022 by Saint86

[Kaiser Soze]

That is all.

[danjosaint]

2 hours ago, Saint86 said:

 

Nothing to do with impatient fans wanting him gone because he dares to play attacking football. 

Hahaha attacking football, how's that working out, we've gone back to type with slow crab football creating f*** all for ourselves, going backwards all the f****** time. So many disillusioned fans on here, he may be a nice guy and was the hipsters choice but he is a very average manager sooner he leaves/retires the better, things go stale after 4/5 years of same shit, change will be good for both similar to Bielsa at Leeds,  difference is Leeds board did the right thing for the club we won't as there all buddies 

Edited 10 April, 2022 by danjosaint

[Sheaf Saint]

11 hours ago, bpsaint said:

Regardless of net spend or squad value this is the same team we’ve had all season, so what is the reason for the sudden nosedive off a cliff in form. Is it as simple as the players are on the beach and lack the motivation to carry on pushing? What caused the drop off after beating Liverpool last season? There has to be some catalyst that is killing our run of form. How does Salisu suddenly wake up one morning and decide to channel his  inner Callum Davenport? 

Bring back the winter ball I say, it’s been downhill since that changed.

Last season it was an injury crisis, primarily with Romeu's absence causing us to lose all control in midfield. 

This season, everything has gone wrong since Salisu got injured. The first game he was out was the 4-0 away at Villa, and since he returned he's been utter dogshit leading to mass panic in our defence. Add to that Romeu's alarming drop off in form (is he carrying an injury?) and it's a recipe for disaster because our 2-man midfield depends entirely on him playing well. 

That's it really, and it perfectly highlights the glaring inadequacy of our squad. For Ralph to get thus group of players to perform and get results it requires our entire first 11 to be fit and on form. When 2 key defensive players stop playing to the required level, we don't have anyone in reserve capable of filling their shoes and we become incredibly easy to score against. 

Ralph should by now be able to recognise this and try to make us more compact when things aren't working rather than sticking with his hung ho attacking style. But even if he did, he would still be forced to play the unfit / out of firm players because of the horrific limitations of the backup options. 

[Billy the Kidd]

8 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Nah mate, it's Ralph's fault we're not challenging for Europe. Shit manager init. 

Nothing to do with impatient fans wanting him gone. 

No one is complaining we are not in European places - stop making stuff up. People are entitled to be pissed off at a totally inept performance, particularly when we go on runs as bad as ours. Most of this sits with Ralph, he is responsible for line-ups, tactics, formation etc. At 2-0 is was obvious he set up wrong, and waited until we were 4 down before doing something - that is down to him and no one else.

We clearly see things different, yet I’m not even saying Ralph should go, far from it as Im looking forward to this summer and new players, but dont say shit that isn’t true, Ralph has major flaws and does do things wrong - there really is no harm is admitting such.

[Billy the Kidd]

23 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Last season it was an injury crisis, primarily with Romeu's absence causing us to lose all control in midfield. 

This season, everything has gone wrong since Salisu got injured. The first game he was out was the 4-0 away at Villa, and since he returned he's been utter dogshit leading to mass panic in our defence. Add to that Romeu's alarming drop off in form (is he carrying an injury?) and it's a recipe for disaster because our 2-man midfield depends entirely on him playing well. 

That's it really, and it perfectly highlights the glaring inadequacy of our squad. For Ralph to get thus group of players to perform and get results it requires our entire first 11 to be fit and on form. When 2 key defensive players stop playing to the required level, we don't have anyone in reserve capable of filling their shoes and we become incredibly easy to score against. 

Ralph should by now be able to recognise this and try to make us more compact when things aren't working rather than sticking with his hung ho attacking style. But even if he did, he would still be forced to play the unfit / out of firm players because of the horrific limitations of the backup options. 

Very true - Ralph has always needed to adapt to suit the style of players, but he has a real stubbornness that prevents him from doing so.

I mean, every club, tea, manager has to deal with injuries, out of form players etc. There are times Ralph gets it very right, and others he gets it very wrong, and not much in between, and for me it stops us moving forward and progressing. Most managers can make a team hard to beat, when our bad runs start, which we are likely not even in the middle of yet, we maker it impossible not to get beat, and that is down to Ralph, tactics etc.

Like ive said elsewhere, I think we re-group in Summer and see what players go/come, but Ralph has had his everlasting honeymoon ended, start next season like this, i expect him to be gone.

[Toussaint]

14 hours ago, TWar said:

I disagree. Tino kept being left 2v1, he can't mark multiple men. Bednarek and Salisu were the ones who kept losing markers.

They were over run yet again due to a dysfunctional midfield, it keeps happening. 

[Whitey Grandad]

15 hours ago, TWar said:

I disagree. Tino kept being left 2v1, he can't mark multiple men. Bednarek and Salisu were the ones who kept losing markers.

Watching their goals again last night (yes, there is a bit of a masochist inside me) In all except one Tino is nowhere to be seen, not even in shot. Whatever the reasons that is not what you would expect of a full back. Or defence had no shape, no cohesion. Instead of playing as a unit where the players all know where their companions are going to be we were a bunch of individuals playing as if they had just met for the first time.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

16 hours ago, TWar said:

No one is saying the manager is blameless. But when the manager has us one point off 9th and the expectation preseason is relegation then maybe try not to wildly overreact. Our season is defined by our league position and cup performance, not by our biggest defeat.

Serious question for you - why do you persist in defending RH? In all my time as a supporter I have never known a manager who has the propensity to deliver such embarrassing results every season and for long runs of losses. I don't think the squad is bad - how does he keep putting out sides lacking even in basic tactics and fight? Surely it is time to roll the dice and get somebody else in.

[TWar]

16 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Serious question for you - why do you persist in defending RH? In all my time as a supporter I have never known a manager who has the propensity to deliver such embarrassing results every season and for long runs of losses. I don't think the squad is bad - how does he keep putting out sides lacking even in basic tactics and fight? Surely it is time to roll the dice and get somebody else in.

Pretty sure I've already answered this a bunch of times but the simple answer is he took a repeatedly relegation threatened team, spent the second least in the league, and turned it into a safe midtable team that has never had to worry about relegation since. Developing players from bang average relegation clonkers to some of the better in the league, just look at JWP. It's pretty simple really, that is a massive achievement and the odd really bad game doesn't erase that.

Edited 10 April, 2022 by TWar

[Alan Sugarfree]

57 minutes ago, TWar said:

Pretty sure I've already answered this a bunch of times but the simple answer is he took a repeatedly relegation threatened team, spent the second least in the league, and turned it into a safe midtable team that has never had to worry about relegation since. Developing players from bang average relegation clonkers to some of the better in the league, just look at JWP. It's pretty simple really, that is a massive achievement and the odd really bad game doesn't erase that.

They’re hardly odd bad games…

or odd bad runs….

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Alan Sugarfree said:

They’re hardly odd bad games…

or odd bad runs….

I'll rephrase, he can have as many bad runs/games as he likes if it keeps us safe, challenging top half, playing good football, and massively progressed from the crap we were when he arrived.

It's a cliche, but one 6-0 is a tonne better than six 1-0s.

[AlexLaw76]

Ultimately, there is a shelf life for all at football clubs.  Ralph has already alluded to him leaving in the near future.

I think the summer would be a good time to part-ways on a very good note.

 

 

[Billy the Kidd]

15 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ultimately, there is a shelf life for all at football clubs.  Ralph has already alluded to him leaving in the near future.

I think the summer would be a good time to part-ways on a very good note.

 

 

I agree, apart from the last part - id suggest on a very average note.

I dont thi k we have over achieved with him, maybe for the first 18 months of him in charge, now I’m not sure we are progressing.

Still, happy for him to have a summer, quality players and some less quality hopefully leaving, and give him 10 games. 

Trouble is, i think i said the same this time last year…

[TWar]

17 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Ultimately, there is a shelf life for all at football clubs.  Ralph has already alluded to him leaving in the near future.

I think the summer would be a good time to part-ways on a very good note.

 

 

I personally would be very annoyed if we finally got a bit of money to spend and a good core of young players and then the guy who the team was built around left. He's ment to be retiring in two years IIRC and that would suit me. Retiring now when we are on the up and about to spend would be a massive shame.

[AlexLaw76]

What makes you think we will have 'a bit of money'?  I hope you are right, but little has been suggested that what we are doing will change, other than we can buy before we need to sell....but sell we will to finance the purchases.

[TWar]

44 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What makes you think we will have 'a bit of money'?  I hope you are right, but little has been suggested that what we are doing will change, other than we can buy before we need to sell....but sell we will to finance the purchases.

Talk of being more active in the market, being able to break our £15m cap on transfer fees, talk of being able to do what we already do but better, and the fact we seem to be freezing out players who in previous seasons likely would just be offered new contracts. Will have to wait and see as nothing is guaranteed till it happens but I can see us spending a decent amount this summer.

Even if we don't though, we have have a good young team with great young players like Salisu, KWP, and Tino and  want to see how Ralph can improve them as well as bringing in more young players to replace some of our older dead weight.

[Badger]

Saw an article in the week about the Austrian FA looking for a new manager. Denied an approach to Rangnick, but wonder if Ralph H might be a candidate.