Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Sarisbury Saint]

34 minutes ago, TWar said:

He had played significantly more senior football at a higher level and had come off the back of a significantly more successful season.

Judging a player on 20 mins and making your mind up isn't something to be proud of, even if you did happen to be right on this instance. It shows your judgement is based on the bare minimum evidence and any accurate observations were probably luck.

Broja was scoring goals at International level.

[Toadhall Saint]

37 minutes ago, TWar said:

He had played significantly more senior football at a higher level and had come off the back of a significantly more successful season.

Judging a player on 20 mins and making your mind up isn't something to be proud of, even if you did happen to be right on this instance. It shows your judgement is based on the bare minimum evidence and any accurate observations were probably luck.

What if DMan has been watching world class strikers for say 20 years? How would his observations stack up then?

[TWar]

37 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

What if DMan has been watching world class strikers for say 20 years? How would his observations stack up then?

I think he could watch worldclass strikers for 200 years, it still wouldn't give him the ability to accurately judge someone off 20 mins of football because it's not about the quality of the watcher it's about the sample size. A 20 min snapshot is basically meaningless.

Broja kind of proves this as in his second game against Sheffield United he was shite and was roundly called out by most including Ralph who has said he "started slow". If I showed you his last two games I think you'd probably think he wasn't so great either, with a lot of misses and poor decisions. You need a longer time to judge. DMan didn't take that time, had a punt, and turned out to be right. It makes him look very clever till you remember he doesn't rate JWP and Adams so really it was probably just a lucky swing.

Edited 20 February, 2022 by TWar

[TWar]

44 minutes ago, Sarisbury Saint said:

Broja was scoring goals at International level.

Against the likes of Hungary and San Marino. He has been excellent this season, I won't disagree with that, but to say he was equally highly rated or likely to succeed as Armstrong at the start of the season is very incorrect.

Armstrong has underperformed (so far, I think he has time), and Broja has massively massively overperformed expectations.

[Toadhall Saint]

9 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think he could watch worldclass strikers for 200 years, it still wouldn't give him the ability to accurately judge someone off 20 mins of football because it's not about the quality of the watcher it's about the sample size. A 20 min snapshot is basically meaningless.

Broja kind of proves this as in his second game against Sheffield United he was shite and was roundly called out by most including Ralph who has said he "started slow". If I showed you his last two games I think you'd probably think he wasn't so great either, with a lot of misses and poor decisions. You need a longer time to judge. DMan didn't take that time, had a punt, and turned out to be right. It makes him look very clever till you remember he doesn't rate JWP and Adams so really it was probably just a lucky swing.

So how are most players initially scouted? Is it with an experienced eye? Or is it in front of a spreadsheet? 

[TWar]

7 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

So how are most players initially scouted? Is it with an experienced eye? Or is it in front of a spreadsheet? 

I think, for us, probably initially a spreadsheet (or some method of conveying numerical data, maybe a nice graph). I imagine we narrow down our targets through statistical analysis and those judged to be good enough will be watched by well trained eyes, and they probably watch numerous games rather than just 20 mins.

If the initial phase was watching them that would take forever, you can't personally scout every major team in the world and keep an eye on every single one of their players.

Edited 20 February, 2022 by TWar

[Dman]

1 hour ago, TWar said:

He had played significantly more senior football at a higher level and had come off the back of a significantly more successful season.

Judging a player on 20 mins and making your mind up isn't something to be proud of, even if you did happen to be right on this instance. It shows your judgement is based on the bare minimum evidence and any accurate observations were probably luck.

1 - that’s irrelevant, as I said, neither were tested at this level. Both should have been judged on there merit in training and or on the pitch and not what they achieved last season. 

2 - I was right because it was absolutely fucking obvious to everyone other than you. Despite what your spreadsheet says, someone who’s lighting quick, over 6 foot and a pretty clinical finisher is quite clearly going to be a top top player. 
 

 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

1 - that’s irrelevant, as I said, neither were tested at this level. Both should have been judged on there merit in training and or on the pitch and not what they achieved last season. 

2 - I was right because it was absolutely fucking obvious to everyone other than you. Despite what your spreadsheet says, someone who’s lighting quick, over 6 foot and a pretty clinical finisher is quite clearly going to be a top top player. 
 

 

1 - Neither were tested at this level but both had been tested at similar levels and one did a lot better. Why not judge off their last season when you are like 5 games in to this season for each player? It is a much more accurate thing to base on than a handful of games.

2 - Most said that Armstrong was more promising and slowly changed their minds as more evidence was acquired, as they should. You guessed early, guessed right, and are trying to pretend that made it obvious. It didn't, it was a lucky guess. You also said you didn't rate JWP and Adams, which are both outlandish takes, you just selectively stick with the one that happened to come true.

[Dman]

3 minutes ago, TWar said:

I think, for us, probably initially a spreadsheet (or some method of conveying numerical data, maybe a nice graph). I imagine we narrow down our targets through statistical analysis and those judged to be good enough will be watched by well trained eyes, and they probably watch numerous games rather than just 20 mins.

If the initial phase was watching them that would take forever, you can't personally scout every major team in the world and keep an eye on every single one of their players.

What are you rambling on about now. Clearly, when making a signing we’d watch a player on numerous occasions. I don’t dispute that. 
 

At the end of the day, you made your opinion based on the fact Armstrong scored more than Broja last season, rather than the clear visible attributes that Broja has, which will make him a top player. You were wrong, it’s fine to admit. 

[TWar]

2 minutes ago, Dman said:

What are you rambling on about now. Clearly, when making a signing we’d watch a player on numerous occasions. I don’t dispute that. 
 

At the end of the day, you made your opinion based on the fact Armstrong scored more than Broja last season, rather than the clear visible attributes that Broja has, which will make him a top player. You were wrong, it’s fine to admit. 

I said Armstrong had a higher chance to succeed than Broja. I stand by that. If I said "this dice has a much better chance of not landing on 6 as it does of landing on it" and then it didn't, I wouldn't have been wrong. Broja defied reasonable expectations and that is great but that doesn't make the initial assessment wrong.

The issue is, you say a tonne of inaccurate things and if one of them pops up as correct (as they will through luck) you cling to it. Have you noticed you are saying this in a thread about Ralph? Your take on him was pretty wrong, and JWP, and Adams. 

Edited 20 February, 2022 by TWar

[Dman]

1 minute ago, TWar said:

1 - Neither were tested at this level but both had been tested at similar levels and one did a lot better. Why not judge off their last season when you are like 5 games in to this season for each player? It is a much more accurate thing to base on than a handful of games.

2 - Most said that Armstrong was more promising and slowly changed their minds as more evidence was acquired, as they should. You guessed early, guessed right, and are trying to pretend that made it obvious. It didn't, it was a lucky guess. You also said you didn't rate JWP and Adams, which are both outlandish takes, you just selectively stick with the one that happened to come true.

The thing that your stats don’t tell you, is the type of squad they had or system  they played in. For example, Lukaku, if you based him on this season then you’d say he’s poor. The reality is, Chelsea aren’t playing to his strengths. 
 

basing an opinion on stats / goals alone is a stupid way to look at things. It doesn’t paint the full picture. 
 

Regarding Adams and JWP, I’m happy to admit since my criticism of them, they’ve both improved. I still think JWP is vastly overrated on here but so, so. 
 

Everyone but you could tell… but apparently it’s a lucky guess…

[Dman]

2 minutes ago, TWar said:

I said Armstrong had a higher chance to succeed than Broja. I stand by that. If I said "this dice has a much better chance of not landing on 6 as it does of landing on it" and then it didn't, I wouldn't have been wrong. Broja defied reasonable expectations and that is great but that doesn't make the initial assessment wrong.

The issue is, you say a tonne of inaccurate things and if one of them pops up as correct (as they will through luck) you cling to it. Have you noticed you are saying this in a thread about Ralph? Your take on him was pretty wrong, and JWP, and Adams. 

You’re fucking tedious mate. Let’s not get into this tit for tat again. 
 

Everyone is wrong now and again. I know you think your gods gift, but even you on this one. 

[TWar]

1 minute ago, Dman said:

The thing that your stats don’t tell you, is the type of squad they had or system  they played in. For example, Lukaku, if you based him on this season then you’d say he’s poor. The reality is, Chelsea aren’t playing to his strengths. 
 

basing an opinion on stats / goals alone is a stupid way to look at things. It doesn’t paint the full picture. 
 

Regarding Adams and JWP, I’m happy to admit since my criticism of them, they’ve both improved. I still think JWP is vastly overrated on here but so, so. 
 

Everyone but you could tell… but apparently it’s a lucky guess…

Lukaku is poor, his level has massively dropped since Everton and he was made to look good by playing in a wank league in Italy and with a ridiculously stacked Belgium side.

Either way, I said it in the other thread but I'll say it again. I really think it is very boring for us both to keep rehashing old arguments at each other. Why don't we both agree to just stop doing so and move on from this point a fresh? Would make the forum much more enjoyable, and I'm sure people are sick to death of us rehashing these old debates which go nowhere.

[OttawaSaint]

Ffs, not again! 

[Sarisbury Saint]

54 minutes ago, TWar said:

Against the likes of Hungary and San Marino. He has been excellent this season, I won't disagree with that, but to say he was equally highly rated or likely to succeed as Armstrong at the start of the season is very incorrect.

Armstrong has underperformed (so far, I think he has time), and Broja has massively massively overperformed expectations.

You never admit your wrong do you ?

People like you think you know better than anyone else. Remember the 4 nil Liverpool drubbing. Still wouldn’t admit Ralph got his tactics wrong even when he said so himself.

But you can’t wait to give it the big one when you get the odd one right.

[Toadhall Saint]

41 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Ffs, not again! 

Sorry - think I might have started this one again. I used to like Twars posts but………well won’t say what I really think now but pompous would feature somewhere.

[Ted Bates Statue]

2 hours ago, Dman said:

You’re fucking tedious mate. Let’s not get into this tit for tat again. 
 

Everyone is wrong now and again. I know you think your gods gift, but even you on this one. 

 

2 hours ago, TWar said:

Lukaku is poor, his level has massively dropped since Everton and he was made to look good by playing in a wank league in Italy and with a ridiculously stacked Belgium side.

Either way, I said it in the other thread but I'll say it again. I really think it is very boring for us both to keep rehashing old arguments at each other. Why don't we both agree to just stop doing so and move on from this point a fresh? Would make the forum much more enjoyable, and I'm sure people are sick to death of us rehashing these old debates which go nowhere.

Indeed. The flirting between the two of you is beyond tedious and devalues this forum, even in the afterglow of another good result.

[The Kraken]

Nonsense. I love a bit of niggly aggro between two regular combatants on here. Keep it up.

 

 

Edited 20 February, 2022 by The Kraken

[farawaysaint]

31 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

 

Indeed. The flirting between the two of you is beyond tedious and devalues this forum, even in the afterglow of another good result.

I mean… is there a level below rock bottom?

[washsaint]

3 hours ago, Dman said:

The thing that your stats don’t tell you, is the type of squad they had or system  they played in. For example, Lukaku, if you based him on this season then you’d say he’s poor. The reality is, Chelsea aren’t playing to his strengths. 
 

basing an opinion on stats / goals alone is a stupid way to look at things. It doesn’t paint the full picture. 
 

Regarding Adams and JWP, I’m happy to admit since my criticism of them, they’ve both improved. I still think JWP is vastly overrated on here but so, so. 
 

Everyone but you could tell… but apparently it’s a lucky guess…

"Regarding Adams and JWP, I’m happy to admit since my criticism of them, they’ve both improved. I still think JWP is vastly overrated on here but so, so. "

Please tell me you are joking about JWP?  If not, you are seriously in need of help.  I think any team in the Prem would be improved with JWP in it.  Alongside Romeu, this pairing are formidable right now.

[influx]

Theres a couple of people on here that could do with getting their hole.  😂

[Saint Garrett]

The job he's done with Elyounoussi deserves a huge amount of credit.  A guy who looked completely out of his depth, with no real stand out attributes, is now looking like a key part of a well oiled machine. Not sure other managers would have brought him back in from the cold, and got this tune out of him.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, Saint Garrett said:

The job he's done with Elyounoussi deserves a huge amount of credit.  A guy who looked completely out of his depth, with no real stand out attributes, is now looking like a key part of a well oiled machine. Not sure other managers would have brought him back in from the cold, and got this tune out of him.

Did his time at Celtic, playing all the time and in Europe, not help in any way?

[Toadhall Saint]

23 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Did his time at Celtic, playing all the time and in Europe, not help in any way?

I would have thought so - but is that not credit to Ralph? Stuck with him etc etc

[AlexLaw76]

53 minutes ago, Toadhall Saint said:

I would have thought so - but is that not credit to Ralph? Stuck with him etc etc

Yes sure, but he did bomb him out for a couple of years.

 

I hope Mo stays, he has been really good this year 

[Toadhall Saint]

13 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Yes sure, but he did bomb him out for a couple of years.

 

I hope Mo stays, he has been really good this year 

Could have sold him?

[Lighthouse]

I think playing Moi was initially born out of necessity. Armstrong was injured and nobody else has looked good in that wide 10 position. Redmond has been better recently but Walcott, Tella and Djenny have done nowhere near enough.

[FarehamSaintJames]

27 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

I think playing Moi was initially born out of necessity. Armstrong was injured and nobody else has looked good in that wide 10 position. Redmond has been better recently but Walcott, Tella and Djenny have done nowhere near enough.

I’d argue that Tella has actually done well on occasions when he’s featured. The problem is there have been few this season, and the majority of the time was snubbed for Djenepo and Walcott, something which we all know back then RH was stubborn about.

The team has now hit form and he’s injured, I’d keep him over the likes of the other two.

[Dark Munster]

13 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Did his time at Celtic, playing all the time and in Europe, not help in any way?

Or his contract is soon to expire and he's doing a Saganowski? 

[Sheaf Saint]

On 21/02/2022 at 09:56, AlexLaw76 said:

Did his time at Celtic, playing all the time and in Europe, not help in any way?

https://www.hampshirelive.news/sport/football/football-news/ralph-hasenhuttl-southampton-been-proved-6701181

Quote

Hasenhuttl did admit, however, that his loan spells at Celtic helped him enjoy the success he is currently having at the south coast side.

“I think this loan time definitely helped him to make the next step in his development. It was important for him to get game time there – it was always a problem here in the beginning," he told the Daily Echo.

“It is always tough when you are coming into a new team, then the team is not performing well and you are a little bit under the radar and don’t get a chance to play a lot.

“So, I think he needed this time and we were always following him, looking how he developed his game and it was for me, in the summer, a very clear decision to say ‘I want him back in this team’."

 

[Chris cooper]

So Ralph being touted for spuds job ..when not IF conte leaves.

This game is so fickle ! 

Edited 24 February, 2022 by Chris cooper

[Turkish]

7 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

So Ralph being touted for spuds job ..when not IF conte leaves.

This game is so fickle ! 

Normally i'd be worried but cant see him wanting Spurs, they are a mess at the moment and cant see Ralph wanting to work for Levy.

[beatlesaint]

6 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Normally i'd be worried but cant see him wanting Spurs, they are a mess at the moment and cant see Ralph wanting to work for Levy.

They really are a complete mess. Amazed Conte went there in the first place.

Biggest mistake Levy made was getting rid of Poch.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

They really are a complete mess. Amazed Conte went there in the first place.

Biggest mistake Levy made was getting rid of Poch.

Surely Levy has to be under threat, third high profile manager appointment cock up in a row. That's a lot of compensation to pay out.

[Jack]

5 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

They really are a complete mess. Amazed Conte went there in the first place.

Biggest mistake Levy made was getting rid of Poch.

Yeah, for failing to challenge for a title. 
Levy has always seen Spurs as bigger and better than they are. 

[TWar]

Doubt Conte leaves. He was annoyed after the game but to be honest he has suggested he is about for the long haul a couple of times. Spurs have a very mediocre squad for a team aiming for top 4 and he surely knew that coming in, that wasn't going to be turned around in one January transfer window.

In the summer if he requests big moves and they don't happen then maybe we'll see him walk but I doubt he goes before then. Could be wrong though if results really nose dive and they end the season bottom half or something then he might get the sack.

[SuperSAINT]

43 minutes ago, Chris cooper said:

So Ralph being touted for spuds job ..when not IF conte leaves.

This game is so fickle ! 

Recall reading that Levy wanted him but was scared off by our bad form at the time, so makes sense they’d be interested.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

46 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

They really are a complete mess. Amazed Conte went there in the first place.

Biggest mistake Levy made was getting rid of Poch.

He got lucky with Poch, he's otherwise a terrible chairman, one of the worst in the league

[Chris cooper]

1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Normally i'd be worried but cant see him wanting Spurs, they are a mess at the moment and cant see Ralph wanting to work for Levy.

I think Ralph is staying put ..can’t see him wanting that pressure at spuds .. imagine them getting done 9 zip with Ralph in charge! 😂

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

He got lucky with Poch, he's otherwise a terrible chairman, one of the worst in the league

All they ever needed to do was to settle for being in the top 10.

[HarvSFC]

There's something rotten at Tottenham, and it started when Pochettino was there, players stopped playing for him, etc. Since then they've had Mourinho, Nuno and now Conte and have chucked a lot of money around, but they're still the same mid-table side expecting to push for the Champions League. Even Kane's stopped playing for them now after last summer, like Alli, etc. did in previous seasons. He turned it on against Manchester City for obvious reasons, but he's one of the best goal scorers in England, their penalty taker and at this moment in time he's the 18th top scorer, behind players like Gallagher, Zaha, Maupay, Bowen, Smith-Rowe and Dennis. He only has one more than JWP. 

It's a job that needs a mass overhaul of the squad, like we needed when Hasenhuttl first took over. Only, he won't be given the time to oversee it and players like Davies, Dier, Sessegnon, Hojbjerg, Emerson, Doherty, Sanchez, Winks and Bergwijn, who are their "unsellables" will outlive another manager.

[Dark Munster]

10 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

He got lucky with Poch, he's otherwise a terrible chairman, one of the worst in the league

Not really, Poch inherited an excellent squad and won the square root of fuck all.

As for Levy, I'm not sure he's one of the worst chairmen from Spurs' point of view, since he's pulled our pants down many times. From Saints' perspective yes, he's terrible!

[Ex Lion Tamer]

10 hours ago, Dark Munster said:

Not really, Poch inherited an excellent squad and won the square root of fuck all.

As for Levy, I'm not sure he's one of the worst chairmen from Spurs' point of view, since he's pulled our pants down many times. From Saints' perspective yes, he's terrible!

Poch made those players into what they were.

Nuno, past-his-prime Mourinho, Sherwood, already-failed-at-Chelsea Villas-Boas, Ramos, Santini, all total failures as manager, all chosen by Levy.

Add that to his pointless haggling over money which only hurts his own squad, and yes, he's a terrible chairman.

Marginally better than Lowe, perhaps, but there's not much in it

Edited 25 February, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer

[suewhistle]

I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere on the board but an interesting article in The Guardian today:  https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/feb/25/ralph-hasenhuttl-finds-space-to-instil-change-in-southamptons-youngsters

[trousers]

15 minutes ago, suewhistle said:

I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere on the board but an interesting article in The Guardian today:  https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/feb/25/ralph-hasenhuttl-finds-space-to-instil-change-in-southamptons-youngsters

Cheers for posting. Decent read. The one thing in there I hope is inaccurate is this: "At 30, Romeu was the starting XI’s oldest outfield player. For now Ibrahima Diallo, 22, is an understudy awaiting his opportunity. "

I don't see Diallo as a like-for-like Romeu replacement. 

[Saint_clark]

1 hour ago, trousers said:

Cheers for posting. Decent read. The one thing in there I hope is inaccurate is this: "At 30, Romeu was the starting XI’s oldest outfield player. For now Ibrahima Diallo, 22, is an understudy awaiting his opportunity. "

I don't see Diallo as a like-for-like Romeu replacement. 

It'll be hard to find a like for like for Romeu. The hard tackling midfielder is dying out, especially those with the ability to pass and run with the ball as well as he does. He's one that's really slipped through the net of the bigger clubs.

Diallo, with an improvement to the defensive side of his game in terms of timing his tackles and positioning to intercept, will be a very good CM for us. Think of Kante - he weighs just as little as Diallo if not less, but he's capable of being an excellent box to box midfielder. I actually like the idea that he's going to be here for 2-3 years learning under Romeu and JWP before stepping up into the first team. 

[Dr Who?]

Got to be manager of the month surely? 

[Toadhall Saint]

1 minute ago, Dr Who? said:

Got to be manager of the month surely? 

One would hope do but it’ll probably go to klippity.

[Saint86]

1 hour ago, Dr Who? said:

Got to be manager of the month surely? 

Agreed. He is a class manager. The progress the squad has made under him is very telling, let alone doing it playing enjoyable football. We're lucky to (still 👀) have him. 

[maysie]

I think I might love him