Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Teddeer]

32 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Given that the match performances are the result of days spent on the training ground, you have to wonder if the training regime is at fault. Our marking and positioning when defending are poor, our free kicks and corners are probably the least effective in the division, God only knows what we do to practice throw ins, and our transition from defence into attack is invariably pedestrian. All of this is down to the coaches, and Ralph is the Head Coach.

Burn the fucking playbook.

Throw-ins is an interesting one. We are appalling, so much so that our opponents are almost guaranteed to get the ball from us. Contrast that with how lax we are when a throw-in is given against us and we leave players completely unmarked. There were two occasions today when Arsenal had a throw-in in their left back area and managed to launch swift attacks on our goal. rarely, if ever, see that from us.

[saint1977]

4222 today without Romeu and Salisu and at a rampant Liverpool are the equivalent to just throwing games. Add the stupidity of last week and of exposing Maddison to a tiring Tino, added to the last 12 months, and the manager is long since out on his ear. Any sensible footballing knowledge even at League 2 level left with Ronald unfortunately which covered over the lack of expertise and knowledge in the rest of the organisation. 

Sure, the takeover needed to happen 12 months ago to instil the bare professionalism and ruthlessness needed but until then there’s plenty of options to add some organisation and interest from the squad. JWP either isn’t fit or needs another rocket, captain crap currently. Diallo another one who has talent but needs a kick up the arse. If you’re shit, at least work to your limitations and be hard to beat. Even Smith has come into Norwich, replaced a Ralph like Farke and made them more competitive.

Sweep away the coaching blob as well - Watson, Kelvin, Fleming. Can’t see any signs of player improvement on the training ground, organisation at set pieces including our own, and the manager doesn’t seem to respect their opinions, certainly not on a match day. 

Don’t need a Saudi takeover to move from Hampshire league to full time professional standards. Still, the crowds at SMS didn’t even call for Pellegrino to go, can’t see them having any fire in their bellies to turn RH and Semmens next week.

[Holmes_and_Watson]

26 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

 Ralph is more stubborn than the 8 donkeys that live in the field at the end of our back garden.

So, these 8 donkeys you know of.. they'd be free agents... CTDAJFU?

[badgerx16]

3 minutes ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

So, these 8 donkeys you know of.. they'd be free agents... CTDAJFU?

They're Blackpool fans, working on the beach near Bloomfield Road.

[AlexLaw76]

What also grips me about Ralph.  He is over-working Livramento, when there is absolutely no need to.  The lad clearly needs a break from the team

[badgerx16]

1 minute ago, AlexLaw76 said:

What also grips me about Ralph.  He is over-working Livramento, when there is absolutely no need to.  The lad clearly needs a break from the team

This. Play KWP at RB and Perraud at LB. 2 players in their natural positions.

Simples.

[FarehamSaintJames]

RH will not be going anywhere.

His lack of backing and his recent anniversary and three year love in interview with the club about him and his family are settled here etc, he will not be going anytime soon.

But bloody hell we need some new ideas, some inspiration. 
Playing the same formation with the same tactics with the same players every week just screams stupidity.

A new coaching staff would probably inject something new into the team, a different formation. 
Something needs to change, but it won’t be the manager.

[Wade Garrett]

3 minutes ago, FarehamSaintJames said:

RH will not be going anywhere.

His lack of backing and his recent anniversary and three year love in interview with the club about him and his family are settled here etc, he will not be going anytime soon.

But bloody hell we need some new ideas, some inspiration. 
Playing the same formation with the same tactics with the same players every week just screams stupidity.

A new coaching staff would probably inject something new into the team, a different formation. 
Something needs to change, but it won’t be the manager.

It is the easiest thing to change for maximum benefit.

[Chris cooper]

Talking to a lot of saints fans today and all now agree Ralph has to go .. we all agree we don’t know who to come in … but we are on free fall and something needs to be done .. talk of protests for Brentford and spurs games coming up with banners outside st Mary’s before kick off .. sounds organised and flyers being made up for support for the removal of Ralph…. The board will have to listen before it’s too late.. lose to palace which is Likely we could be right back bang in the mixer again .. sad times 😕

[Lord Duckhunter]

More and more people coming round. The king is fucking naked, bluffer. 

[stknowle]

I’m off the fence now. I like him, really want it to work but it just isn’t going to. Needs to go. 

[Turkish]

Is it his squad yet?

[It's There]

2 games to proof he can get a tune. If not, then maybe P45

 

[danjosaint]

3 minutes ago, It's There said:

2 games to proof he can get a tune. If not, then maybe P45

 

Has he not had enough time to get a tune yet or are we going to let it rumble on until 1 game we may play well and win then u think its justified he's still here

Edited 11 December, 2021 by danjosaint

[Dusic]

I have been pro Ralph for a long time but starting to waver slightly, for 3 main reasons:

1. After 3 years, sometimes players just need an alternative approach to keep them on their toes.

2. Our worrying pattern of being absolutely awful in most second halves - ultimately this is where the majority of games are decided, especially as a team that doesnt score many goals.

3. Strange selections, like not starting Lyanco today after a very good game vs Brighton. Dropping Adams a few times when in good form.

That said, generally our biggest problem is not scoring enough goals when we are on top in games and I dont see how he is to blame for that. Ultimately, in attacknwe have #10s with no real history of scoring many goals and no proven PL strikers. Its no coincidence that our best spell under Ralph came when Ings was on fire and obviously we couldnt keep him and then replaced him with an inferior player who will need a season to find his feet at this level.

One thing is for sure, any Manager to were to come in would face exactly the same challenges as Ralph:

1. Leading a club with no ability to spend more than we receive in transfer fees.

2. A lack of really good PL level players, plus a selling policy of any that do train on with less proven replacements signed

3. Unproven strikers

4. A PL that is ever richer with more clubs provided with serious investment.

We probably have a realistic ceiling of about 12th/13th in the PL.

Edited 11 December, 2021 by Dusic

[Saint-Michael]

4 hours ago, gordonToo said:

I still think this squad is capable of doing better. Ralphs approach of picking a playing style and then matching players to positions is clearly not working and the players know it. The trouble is, I suspect Ralph would rather fail than change the system. 

Totally agree we don't have a squad good enough to play in the style Ralph wants them to and to keep doing the same thing all the time and expecting a different outcome is madness also I think the players have lost any faith in the manager .

[manji]

Ralph loyalist too. I’m out.

[verlaine1979]

His stubbornness (or myopia) is definitely now a serious problem. Livramento hasn't offered anything going forward and has been a liability in defense for several games now, but he hasn't even been substituted let alone dropped. Even more absurd is the fact that we'd probably be better balanced right now with KWP on the right and Perraud on the left. KWP has shown no lack of ability to get forward on the left, he just hasn't been able to do anything with it when he gets there as he needs to cut inside every single time. I'd argue that he's far more of an attacking threat at the moment than TL, but Ralph has completely blunted him by refusing to rest an 18 year old who clearly needs it.

[Saint Matty 76]

I’ve always backed him and I still do. I just can’t think who’s available who I’d be excited by?

This squad is unquestionably terrible. I just worry that we’d be downgrading without realising it and go down without a whimper.

I don’t personally believe that we go down under Ralph, although others will definitely agree.

He has many flaws, but I honestly think he’s been exceeding expectations in keeping us out a relegation dogfight under these restrictions.

All changes for me if we don’t hit 4 points from Palace/Brentford, however.

[Dusic]

4 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

This squad is unquestionably terrible. 

Disagree with this. Its not terrible. It is a bottom third squad, for a team with a bottom third budget.

Stronger in some areas than others. A few proven PL players and lots that are not. A lack of match winners as we can't afford them.

[Patrick Bateman]

He's got to go. It's done. 

[aintforever]

17 minutes ago, Saint Matty 76 said:

I’ve always backed him and I still do. I just can’t think who’s available who I’d be excited by?

This squad is unquestionably terrible. I just worry that we’d be downgrading without realising it and go down without a whimper.

I don’t personally believe that we go down under Ralph, although others will definitely agree.

He has many flaws, but I honestly think he’s been exceeding expectations in keeping us out a relegation dogfight under these restrictions.

All changes for me if we don’t hit 4 points from Palace/Brentford, however.

This. If we sack Ralph I’m not confident we will get anyone better and could get a lot worse. We always lose at Arsenal.

[Pilchards]

37 minutes ago, aintforever said:

This. If we sack Ralph I’m not confident we will get anyone better and could get a lot worse. We always lose at Arsenal.

A lot worse?

I honestly think we have the good players but they are not playing to their strengths.
It needs an overhaul and a fresh manager and his number 2 will put an extra step in the current players. 
Do you honestly think the new manager would continue to win the first half and lose every second half plus the overall match?

Do you  think they will allow a top RB to play LB every time?

Also will they bring on subs that leave you scratching your head every single time?

And before I pop off to bed stop giving JWP the responsibility of everything on the pitch.

[sydenhamssocks]

6 minutes ago, Pilchards said:

A lot worse?

I honestly think we have the good players but they are not playing to their strengths.
It needs an overhaul and a fresh manager and his number 2 will put an extra step in the current players. 
Do you honestly think the new manager would continue to win the first half and lose every second half plus the overall match?

Do you  think they will allow a top RB to play LB every time?

Also will they bring on subs that leave you scratching your head every single time?

And before I pop off to bed stop giving JWP the responsibility of everything on the pitch.

Bang on !!! Time for change 

[MAY-Z]

1 hour ago, Dusic said:

Disagree with this. Its not terrible. It is a bottom third squad, for a team with a bottom third budget.

Stronger in some areas than others. A few proven PL players and lots that are not. A lack of match winners as we can't afford them.

Absolutely

 

the only thing Ralph has done perfectly in his time here is make so many people believe we have a squad that would be uncompetitive in the outer Mongolian 15th division.

 

you don’t need someone exciting to play a left back at left back

you don’t need someone exciting to play our best right back from last year at right back this year

you don’t need someone exciting to stop playing with these 2 10s that offer nothing as most or our game plan bypasses these positions anyway

you don’t need someone exciting to maybe put an extra man in the middle of midfield to stop us being overrun there every week

[Saint86]

4 hours ago, Chris cooper said:

Talking to a lot of saints fans today and all now agree Ralph has to go .. we all agree we don’t know who to come in … but we are on free fall and something needs to be done .. talk of protests for Brentford and spurs games coming up with banners outside st Mary’s before kick off .. sounds organised and flyers being made up for support for the removal of Ralph…. The board will have to listen before it’s too late.. lose to palace which is Likely we could be right back bang in the mixer again .. sad times 😕

Lost away to 6th in the league, a fixture we have a terrible record in, and without a professional goalkeeper or 2 of our best defensive players (sal and rom).

Yes... This is obviously the game to sack him on for most level headed fans? Out of curiosity, what result would have been acceptable? If a loss is a sackable offense? I can't imagine anything less than a draw was reasonable to you? 

[Saints foreva]

11 minutes ago, Saint86 said:

Lost away to 6th in the league, a fixture we have a terrible record in, and without a professional goalkeeper or 2 of our best defensive players (sal and rom).

Yes... This is obviously the game to sack him on for most level headed fans? Out of curiosity, what result would have been acceptable? If a loss is a sackable offense? I can't imagine anything less than a draw was reasonable to you? 

It's not because we've lost to 6th in the league. It's because we have 8 wins from 38 this calender year and the manager shows no signs of turning this around. We've had a poor point return from games against Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley, we've conceded goals for fun once again and he has persisted with the same dogshite 4222 style of play that has not worked since December last year. 

Of course, it's not just the manager who is the issue, the biggest issue is the ownership of the club and that will not be changing anytime soon. 

[Suhari]

7 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

I think the team has the potential to produce better results, but that needs a different tactical approach, and Ralph is more stubborn than the 8 donkeys that live in the field at the end of our back garden.

Do any of them play CM?

[Red]

37 minutes ago, Saints foreva said:

It's not because we've lost to 6th in the league. It's because we have 8 wins from 38 this calender year and the manager shows no signs of turning this around. We've had a poor point return from games against Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley, we've conceded goals for fun once again and he has persisted with the same dogshite 4222 style of play that has not worked since December last year. 

Of course, it's not just the manager who is the issue, the biggest issue is the ownership of the club and that will not be changing anytime soon. 

Spot on. See there are still a fair few Ralph apologists out there - interesting to know why they have such blinding faith in him? I wonder if they also wanted to stick with Hughes and Pellegrino?

This is not a knee jerk reaction from me as I have been calling for Ralph's departure for months now, and winning a game or two in the next few weeks is not going to change anything (maybe apart from his wardrobe - if he was an English manager he would have been rightly ridiculed for that - certain ex England manager for example). His cheap version of the gegenpress produced some initial results but unlike the masters of this system, he has failed to improve/sophisticate as other managers have realised our one and only tactic. Add to that the stubborn refusal to change formation, tactics, players and random dislike of players all add up to a need for change. Sure it's a risk but no more than the path we are on now. 

[John D]

4 minutes ago, Red said:

Spot on. See there are still a fair few Ralph apologists out there - interesting to know why they have such blinding faith in him? I wonder if they also wanted to stick with Hughes and Pellegrino?

This is not a knee jerk reaction from me as I have been calling for Ralph's departure for months now, and winning a game or two in the next few weeks is not going to change anything (maybe apart from his wardrobe - if he was an English manager he would have been rightly ridiculed for that - certain ex England manager for example). His cheap version of the gegenpress produced some initial results but unlike the masters of this system, he has failed to improve/sophisticate as other managers have realised our one and only tactic. Add to that the stubborn refusal to change formation, tactics, players and random dislike of players all add up to a need for change. Sure it's a risk but no more than the path we are on now. 

Spot on. Saved me typing the same!

Time for Ralph to go!

[HarvSFC]

I've been pro-Ralph for the duration too. But, now, we're just too easy to beat... A good defence wins titles. We're not competing for any titles, but when Koeman built a solid base we were really quite good! The defence and goalkeepers are the weakest past of our team, yes, even weaker than the misfiring forwards, and we send them out to slaughter every week, be it the first half, where we look like amateurs today, and against Liverpool, or completely crumble in second halves of 90% of matches. I'm sick of seeing KWP play out of position, while Livramento is struggling at right-back. Last season, it was clear that Hasenhuttl had improved a lot of our squad. But, JWP has reverted, Bednarek has reverted and Adams is still hit and miss. 

One thing, I don't agree with though is some of the suggestions for replacements still, especially when it's Frank Lampard/John Terry. Norwich and Rangers passed on this duo and we should be looking at better than those two clubs. We need to move away from this ridiculous outdated Les Reed policy of only appointing managers out of work. Yes, we picked up two top class managers for nothing in Pochettino and Koeman, but our recruitment under Mitchell was a lot more secure back then. Now, we're trying to replicate past successes and firing blanks every time. Management is the most important part of football and we're handicapping ourselves by only exploring those who are out of work. The last time we did it was Nigel Adkins and like Pochettino and Koeman, he was also really successful, so get the best candidate. Leicester, Brighton, Villa didn't care that Rodgers, Potter or Gerrard were under contract. They're the clubs we should be competing with and they're all doing better than us and have leapfrogged us.

It's like the academy situation, only this summer did the club start focusing on it again after years of neglect. We've been left behind by many at youth level, despite recent good form. We aren't competing against the likes of Brighton, Aston Villa, Leeds, or Man City yet and they've pumped millions into their youth sides. We used to have the best academy in the country, it was part of our identity and now it produces absolutely nothing.

Alongside this, we need to stop trying to "breed" coaches, or whatever the hell is going on at the club there. This, again is amateurish and a job for the boys type scenario. Pochettino had Perez, Jimenez and D'Agostino, who are all still with him at PSG. Koeman was able to bring in Lee, E.Koeman, Kluitenberg and Watson, who is now weirdly a first team coach after being appointed as a goalkeeping coach initially. I know Puel, Pellegrino, Hughes and Hasenhuttl have all been able to bring in individuals with them too, but I'm sure Davis, Fleming and Watson, who have outstayed multiple managers now aren't at the top of their wants for part of their coaching staff. Davis and Fleming should still be with the youth team at the most, but it feels like they were in the right place at the right time. They are not Premier League coaches. Taking recent examples, Michael Carrick just stepped down from a much bigger position because the manager he was working with was sacked, Ledley King, who was a much bigger legend at Tottenham, than Davis is here was demoted from their coaching team following the appointment of Espirito Santo. There's no room for sentimentality in football.

Late night/early morning rant over.

[captainchris]

9 hours ago, Holmes_and_Watson said:

So, these 8 donkeys you know of.. they'd be free agents... CTDAJFU?

Ridiculous reply…….

[Holmes_and_Watson]

2 hours ago, captainchris said:

Ridiculous reply…….

Thanks! Just the tone I was going for, after some gloomy displays.

Obviously, we'd never get all 8 and a fit McCarthy would still get picked ahead of the goalkeeping donkey.

[saint michael]

I went along yesterday and it was a totally gutless display. Looked like the team are clueless. They make an effort when they have the ball but are absolutely clueless in how to defend when they don’t. Long balls to each wing just killed us and the second goal think it was Tierney had 4 chance and time to get the cross over. Ridiculous eventually hitting our player on the back as he turned away.

I think it is 50:goals shipped in 2021 which is a prem record.  There was a period in the second half where we were lucky to only ship 1. Should have been 4. Rather than make a tactical change to help Ralph (even if it didn’t work out) continued to stand and watch. 

Look at the zonal marking tactics. 4 at the front post all not moving or aligned with their zones. So easy to break. 
 

Interesting that he is starting to blame injuries and mistakes and players. He is absolutely clueless. I don’t care who we get I would rather feel we are moving forward than watch this every week. I wonder if and when the fans will start to voice displeasure at games 

[Convict Colony]

I look at like this (sorry this turned out longer than i intended)

I remember the Puel (possession around our halfway line), Pellegrino (keep possession around of back 4) and Hughes (pray for possession) and how with Ralph we can all see his plan since he came in and to be honest this is the way a lot of successful clubs play.

Stating the obvious but I think the difference is that these other clubs are able to improve the squad each year and sell the players who dont make it or are a target for the bigger clubs. Until those big sales happen that financial ability is down to the owner and the allocated budget they get each year.

As an example if I look at RB Leipzig when Ralph was manager they were able to spend around 60-70m a year whilst generating around 12 mil in sales in total for both seasons.

Of that 120-140mil spent over the 2 years I'd say RB Salzburg received around half of that money so the money was kept "in house" and I believe there is a discount on the transfer pricing anyway.

RB Salzburg give Leipzig an advantage as

• A) There is a pathway to Leipzig to sell to players who arent ready for budesliga yet but could be gems.
• B) RB Salzburg can take the younger, un proven players and mould them into the system to make them ready (think this would be where a moussa/salisu etc would go).

I think we are caught in a half way house between trying to follow this model and system to  get these young unproven players in and but then having to play them before they are ready cos we are crap (hence i think ralph realised this with Salisu particularly could see the talent and decided he would train only for 6months).

We probably have max net 20-25m spend each year in the richest league in the world (not including sales - money to pay transfer money due per annum not transfer fees) hence the accounting footwork with Tino (pay 5mil this summer)

Without picking on Redmond he joined in summer 2016 and he is still here 6 seasons later with a total of 20 goals average 3.33 goals a season and is still here playing as a winger/forward (salah, mane role hahahahah), I could pick a few players like this.

We have no budget to significantly improve the quality of the squad (Jan Veest record signing joined in 2018 was bought with Virgil money) and until we either have players sought after by other clubs or we get owner investment this will not change.

To be honest I really dont think the manager is the problem as I cant think of a manager alive who could get us scoring goals and keeping cleansheets working within the constraints we have (last 2 seasons were we mid table for scoring).

I really think we have had bang average players for a while and when we can buy some we have to shop in the bargain basement of championship, lower european leagues or reserve teams as we have no money.  We also have c level assistant coaches with no discernible coaching talent who unlike other coaches seem to cling onto their jobs whenever a manager leaves but they are seen as the cheap option so are kept on.

Until we get an owner who can invest in the team to a suitable level we will continue to be on struggle street and our only hope is to have a playing system that helps negate the talent difference between our players and the opposition, unfortunately for us this system can be undone with mental lapses due to the lack of quality and execution which we see every week.

So in short, its gonna be the same no matter the manager whilst we have this playing group and investment level - we just need to try and beat the teams around us and nick points off the top half where we can to try and stay up.

 

Edited 12 December, 2021 by Convict Colony

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I get the feeling if he wasn't shopping at Poundland then he'd be a highly effective Manager.  Whilst there is an argument to say he should be adapting to the talent level of his players, if he went defensive people wouldn't accept it either.  They certainly didn't with Puel.  Yet had we gone to the Emirates yesterday, shoved 11 men behind the ball and narrowly lost how is that any better?

Before we conceded we were the better team and crafted chances - what let us down was poor finishing - a sign of having low quality players, which is a consequence of spending peanuts on them.  When we conceded from their first proper attack what let us down was poor defending - a sign of having low quality players, which is a consequence of spending peanuts on them.

You can make an argument Ralph should be doing better, but it's not a case of dealing in absolutes with him.  Yes there are strange team selections, poor subs and so on.  But this is all stuff relating to polishing a turd.  We are broke, can't afford to buy good players, and are being outspent by alot of teams around us.  It doesn't matter how cute you try to be around all the other stuff, if you do not spend money you get relegated eventually.  The season where we started buying kids from other Academies and making them starters and having a forward line consisting of two Championship players and a loanee may well be that season.  It was obvious in the summer, I don't see why people are turning on Ralph like he is the problem and getting a new manager fixes things.  It doesn't.

 

EDIT - Convict posted at the same time!

Edited 12 December, 2021 by Lallana's Left Peg

[aintforever]

10 hours ago, Pilchards said:

I honestly think we have the good players but they are not playing to their strengths.

That's where we disagree, I don't think they area any better than lower mid-table and that's where we are. A Pelligrino type appointment would have this group rock bottom IMO.

[Teddeer]

9 hours ago, Saint86 said:

Lost away to 6th in the league, a fixture we have a terrible record in, and without a professional goalkeeper or 2 of our best defensive players (sal and rom).

Yes... This is obviously the game to sack him on for most level headed fans? Out of curiosity, what result would have been acceptable? If a loss is a sackable offense? I can't imagine anything less than a draw was reasonable to you? 

It has nothing to do with this one result. These poor performances have been happening over a long period and Ralph keeps making the same mistakes and using the same flawed tactics as though he expects it all to magically come right. It won't. He is a busted flush and it's time for a change for a myriad of reasons that have been highlighted on here by many different posters. And before the 'who will we get in his place' brigade start there must be some good managers, both young or experienced, around who would jump at the opportunity to come here and have a chance of showing what can be achieved with a bit of passion and tactical nous. Not sure we could do worse than what we are being served up at present. Yes, it's a risk but better to take a chance than sleep walk towards relegation. Clean out the inept coaching staff as well and bring in fresh eyes with fresh ideas.  

[egg]

1 hour ago, saint michael said:

I went along yesterday and it was a totally gutless display. Looked like the team are clueless. They make an effort when they have the ball but are absolutely clueless in how to defend when they don’t. Long balls to each wing just killed us and the second goal think it was Tierney had 4 chance and time to get the cross over. Ridiculous eventually hitting our player on the back as he turned away.

I think it is 50:goals shipped in 2021 which is a prem record.  There was a period in the second half where we were lucky to only ship 1. Should have been 4. Rather than make a tactical change to help Ralph (even if it didn’t work out) continued to stand and watch. 

Look at the zonal marking tactics. 4 at the front post all not moving or aligned with their zones. So easy to break. 
 

Interesting that he is starting to blame injuries and mistakes and players. He is absolutely clueless. I don’t care who we get I would rather feel we are moving forward than watch this every week. I wonder if and when the fans will start to voice displeasure at games 

Good post and agree with you. 

The zonal marking is appalling. Arsenal aren't so fluid that our players can't mark a man. The tactic is so easy to exploit its embarrassing, and as you say, the players haven't got a clue. 

The worst thing I hear from fans is that we can't get anyone better, so let's stick with what we have. What a load of bollocks - if I was in a shit relationship I'd get the hell out there regardless of whether I've got someone else lined. Sticking with it would be mental, just like sticking with Ralph is. He has to go. 

[CAH61]

I guess my criteria for judging a manager is usually "are we making progress?" and it is difficult to argue that the team's results are better than two years ago despite having a deeper squad and Ralph having time to implement his plans and tactics.
It's well documented that the team suffered a terrible injury crisis last season with limited cover but that is no longer the case now.
The performances have been good but not consistantly for a full match and we still miss chances and make errors in defence. Is that the manager's responsibility? , ultimately the answer has to be yes because a team's mentality is under his remit.
I happen to think that the current squad should be finishing 11th-14th this season and looking to progress from there.
It is still too early to change the manager but the results have to get better because that is how he should be judged ultimately.

[Teddeer]

7 hours ago, HarvSFC said:

I've been pro-Ralph for the duration too. But, now, we're just too easy to beat... A good defence wins titles. We're not competing for any titles, but when Koeman built a solid base we were really quite good! The defence and goalkeepers are the weakest past of our team, yes, even weaker than the misfiring forwards, and we send them out to slaughter every week, be it the first half, where we look like amateurs today, and against Liverpool, or completely crumble in second halves of 90% of matches. I'm sick of seeing KWP play out of position, while Livramento is struggling at right-back. Last season, it was clear that Hasenhuttl had improved a lot of our squad. But, JWP has reverted, Bednarek has reverted and Adams is still hit and miss. 

One thing, I don't agree with though is some of the suggestions for replacements still, especially when it's Frank Lampard/John Terry. Norwich and Rangers passed on this duo and we should be looking at better than those two clubs. We need to move away from this ridiculous outdated Les Reed policy of only appointing managers out of work. Yes, we picked up two top class managers for nothing in Pochettino and Koeman, but our recruitment under Mitchell was a lot more secure back then. Now, we're trying to replicate past successes and firing blanks every time. Management is the most important part of football and we're handicapping ourselves by only exploring those who are out of work. The last time we did it was Nigel Adkins and like Pochettino and Koeman, he was also really successful, so get the best candidate. Leicester, Brighton, Villa didn't care that Rodgers, Potter or Gerrard were under contract. They're the clubs we should be competing with and they're all doing better than us and have leapfrogged us.

It's like the academy situation, only this summer did the club start focusing on it again after years of neglect. We've been left behind by many at youth level, despite recent good form. We aren't competing against the likes of Brighton, Aston Villa, Leeds, or Man City yet and they've pumped millions into their youth sides. We used to have the best academy in the country, it was part of our identity and now it produces absolutely nothing.

Alongside this, we need to stop trying to "breed" coaches, or whatever the hell is going on at the club there. This, again is amateurish and a job for the boys type scenario. Pochettino had Perez, Jimenez and D'Agostino, who are all still with him at PSG. Koeman was able to bring in Lee, E.Koeman, Kluitenberg and Watson, who is now weirdly a first team coach after being appointed as a goalkeeping coach initially. I know Puel, Pellegrino, Hughes and Hasenhuttl have all been able to bring in individuals with them too, but I'm sure Davis, Fleming and Watson, who have outstayed multiple managers now aren't at the top of their wants for part of their coaching staff. Davis and Fleming should still be with the youth team at the most, but it feels like they were in the right place at the right time. They are not Premier League coaches. Taking recent examples, Michael Carrick just stepped down from a much bigger position because the manager he was working with was sacked, Ledley King, who was a much bigger legend at Tottenham, than Davis is here was demoted from their coaching team following the appointment of Espirito Santo. There's no room for sentimentality in football.

Late night/early morning rant over.

Some excellent points here that are hard to refute.

[AlexLaw76]

1 minute ago, CAH61 said:

I guess my criteria for judging a manager is usually "are we making progress?" and it is difficult to argue that the team's results are better than two years ago despite having a deeper squad and Ralph having time to implement his plans and tactics.
It's well documented that the team suffered a terrible injury crisis last season with limited cover but that is no longer the case now.
The performances have been good but not consistantly for a full match and we still miss chances and make errors in defence. Is that the manager's responsibility? , ultimately the answer has to be yes because a team's mentality is under his remit.
I happen to think that the current squad should be finishing 11th-14th this season and looking to progress from there.
It is still too early to change the manager but the results have to get better because that is how he should be judged ultimately.

how on earth is it STILL too early to change the manager? he has been here 3 years.

[Nemi]

11 hours ago, Dusic said:

Disagree with this. Its not terrible. It is a bottom third squad, for a team with a bottom third budget.

Stronger in some areas than others. A few proven PL players and lots that are not. A lack of match winners as we can't afford them.

 

16 hours ago, gordonToo said:

I still think this squad is capable of doing better. Ralphs approach of picking a playing style and then matching players to positions is clearly not working and the players know it. The trouble is, I suspect Ralph would rather fail than change the system. 

I’m certain Ralph will get us relegated this season and I’m positive there’s a manager who could probably just about save us.

But I really struggle to see how people think one man will turn around a squad that has consistently been terrible and underwhelming since 2016.

Elyounoussi has only ever scored one for Saints.

Tella, despite some promise, still only has one goal.

Djenepo has what? Two or three goals.

Walcott is clearly finished.

The fact that Redmond is our best attacking mid says it all.

These players output has been shocking for a long, long time.

Bednarek and Stephen’s have been part of some really, really awful defensive partnerships.

Lycano and Salisu are still pretty new to the PL. Livramento is still only a kid. Walker-Peters is decent but he’s still no world-beater: it’s not like his output has ever been that great either.

I think everyone can agree our keepers are crap.

Romeu and JWP have never been as good as people make them out to be (they weren’t regular starters under Koeman) - that’s especially showing this season.

At least Adams send to be improving, but he’s still inconsistent. Broja is still in his first PL season; same with Armstrong and I can see nothing about him which shows he’s gonna make it at this level.

For the three or four decent players that are left, the rest are really, really poor. And that’s shown in the fact hardly any of these players have been starters in a top-half PL team. And they’ve consistently finished in the bottom half with Saints. I don’t see how that’s ever gonna change.

And nothing will change in my eyes until there’s a total clear out top-to-bottom. New manager, new players, and new owners.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

1 hour ago, Lallana's Left Peg said:

I don't see why people are turning on Ralph like he is the problem and getting a new manager fixes things.  It doesn't.

Agreed the lack of investment makes things difficult. However, you are suggesting because of this Ralph should have a get out of jail free card? His record is appalling. He is not the man to make a fight of this situation. Changing the manager now is probably the only thing we can do to have a chance of beating relegation. Ralph is out of ideas and out of time. He needs to go.

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

I look at like this (sorry this turned out longer than i intended)

I remember the Puel (possession around our halfway line), Pellegrino (keep possession around of back 4) and Hughes (pray for possession) and how with Ralph we can all see his plan since he came in and to be honest this is the way a lot of successful clubs play.

Stating the obvious but I think the difference is that these other clubs are able to improve the squad each year and sell the players who dont make it or are a target for the bigger clubs. Until those big sales happen that financial ability is down to the owner and the allocated budget they get each year.

As an example if I look at RB Leipzig when Ralph was manager they were able to spend around 60-70m a year whilst generating around 12 mil in sales in total for both seasons.

Of that 120-140mil spent over the 2 years I'd say RB Salzburg received around half of that money so the money was kept "in house" and I believe there is a discount on the transfer pricing anyway.

RB Salzburg give Leipzig an advantage as

• A) There is a pathway to Leipzig to sell to players who arent ready for budesliga yet but could be gems.
• B) RB Salzburg can take the younger, un proven players and mould them into the system to make them ready (think this would be where a moussa/salisu etc would go).

I think we are caught in a half way house between trying to follow this model and system to  get these young unproven players in and but then having to play them before they are ready cos we are crap (hence i think ralph realised this with Salisu particularly could see the talent and decided he would train only for 6months).

We probably have max net 20-25m spend each year in the richest league in the world (not including sales - money to pay transfer money due per annum not transfer fees) hence the accounting footwork with Tino (pay 5mil this summer)

Without picking on Redmond he joined in summer 2016 and he is still here 6 seasons later with a total of 20 goals average 3.33 goals a season and is still here playing as a winger/forward (salah, mane role hahahahah), I could pick a few players like this.

We have no budget to significantly improve the quality of the squad (Jan Veest record signing joined in 2018 was bought with Virgil money) and until we either have players sought after by other clubs or we get owner investment this will not change.

To be honest I really dont think the manager is the problem as I cant think of a manager alive who could get us scoring goals and keeping cleansheets working within the constraints we have (last 2 seasons were we mid table for scoring).

I really think we have had bang average players for a while and when we can buy some we have to shop in the bargain basement of championship, lower european leagues or reserve teams as we have no money.  We also have c level assistant coaches with no discernible coaching talent who unlike other coaches seem to cling onto their jobs whenever a manager leaves but they are seen as the cheap option so are kept on.

Until we get an owner who can invest in the team to a suitable level we will continue to be on struggle street and our only hope is to have a playing system that helps negate the talent difference between our players and the opposition, unfortunately for us this system can be undone with mental lapses due to the lack of quality and execution which we see every week.

So in short, its gonna be the same no matter the manager whilst we have this playing group and investment level - we just need to try and beat the teams around us and nick points off the top half where we can to try and stay up.

 

Much of what you say is correct. However, you imply that the current playing system is the only one we can adopt despite admitting that it does not work. We can all appreciate that Ralph is working on a very limited budget so he either has to alter his tactics and the way he sets the side up for games to make us harder to beat or we sack him. There is no point leaving him at the helm of a ship that he is steering onto the rocks because he is too stubborn or not bright enough to change course.

[Neef]

The reality is that with the current ownership situation, the goal that has been set for Ralph is survival. He's said it. The board have said it.

Of course as fans we want the most, espeically when the success of the Koeman/Poch years are stll fresh in memory. But the circusmtances Ralph is working under are vastly different. You only have to compare the strongest Koeman XI to our strongest XI now. They are far far apart. 

Yes, the manager could improve, and there's definitely an arguemnt that if he doesn't have the players to fit the system, then the system has to change. But ultimately I don't think much changes for the better if he leaves. Any new manager will still be working with a relatively weak team and have very little money to spend to drastically improve said team. The goal set for any new manager would be Premier Leageu surivival - the same goal it has been for Ralph. 

It's frustrating for everyone. It's probably frustrating for Ralph. But until the ownership situation is resolved, we are stuck in this limbo. 

[CAH61]

36 minutes ago, AlexLaw76 said:

how on earth is it STILL too early to change the manager? he has been here 3 years.

 

Because we are still within touch of that 11th place I mentioned and there is still time for things to improve this season.

[beatlesaint]

I really want to be pro Ralph but the odds are stacking up which leave me questioning if he is clueless or just plain stubborn.

We play 2 central midfielders that, when they get over-run, we have no answer to.

Without Romeu we are totally gutless, nobody in midfield will or can put their foot in.

He insistence on running Livramento into the ground is a concern, only last season he was warning about over-using young players (Tella) but that seems to have been forgotten.

The treatment of KWP who was one of our three best players last season is shameful. Its linked to the above, give Tino a rest and play KWP in his natural position with Perraud at left back. Just try it Ralph, Tino is great but he isnt the best defender.

Dropping Lyanco yesterday after he's been fairly good to bring in a very rusty Stephens is just, well its typical RH team selections I suppose. 

Throwing McCarthy under the bus after the Brighton game. Ok he's come out and sort of apologised but the damage was already done.

Rigid formation which incredibly he changes away to Liverpool creating another shit show after the set up used against Man City and Chelsea (until Captain Marvel got sent off) worked well.

Taking a third of the season to realise Tella is better than Walcott.

Its all stacking up and despite some claims that he is, I really dont see where RH leanrs from his mistakes.

[Rebel]

I don't think changing the manager will make any difference at this stage unfortunately - the squad just isn't good enough.   

We lack a goals.  We don't have any real cover for Romeu in midfield.  Our No 10s (Tella, Moi, Redmond , Djneppo and Walcott) just aren't good enough.  Stuart Armstrong seems like injuries and Covid  have taken a toll on him. None of our keepers are really first choice keepers anymore.  

And them their is the lack of leadership on the pitch - and the inability to hold on to a lead.

Yes Ralph doesn't seem to be able to get the best out of them on a weekly basis - and he is too attached to his  4-2-2-2 system even when we don't have the players to play it.  And its a system which the players seem unable to play for 90 mins.

Without Romeu there is no steel in midfield so it was obvious we needed to play a midfield 3 (JWP, Diallo and Smallbone/Livramento ?) against Arsenal.   

What we need is some signings in January but I don't see it happening.

Yet again we will have to hope that 3 out of Burnley, Nowrich, Watford and Newcastle and worse than us if we are to stay up.

 

[Teddeer]

1 hour ago, Neef said:

The reality is that with the current ownership situation, the goal that has been set for Ralph is survival. He's said it. The board have said it.

Of course as fans we want the most, espeically when the success of the Koeman/Poch years are stll fresh in memory. But the circusmtances Ralph is working under are vastly different. You only have to compare the strongest Koeman XI to our strongest XI now. They are far far apart. 

Yes, the manager could improve, and there's definitely an arguemnt that if he doesn't have the players to fit the system, then the system has to change. But ultimately I don't think much changes for the better if he leaves. Any new manager will still be working with a relatively weak team and have very little money to spend to drastically improve said team. The goal set for any new manager would be Premier Leageu surivival - the same goal it has been for Ralph. 

It's frustrating for everyone. It's probably frustrating for Ralph. But until the ownership situation is resolved, we are stuck in this limbo. 

His system, the way he sets us up and the way we play is the major problem but he is too stubborn to admit he is wrong so we continue to rinse, recycle and repeat and commit the same errors. If he will not change then he must go. He has for a long time proved the definition of insanity and it cannot continue.