Ralph Hasenhuttl

[Red]

I wanted to reflect in calm the day after and was also at a funeral/remembrance yesterday - which btw was very thought provoking and illustrated there are far more important things in life than football (although I was still checking the score on my mobile much to the annoyance of my wife).

I really don't know where to begin - truly! This is not a knee jerk reaction, as I have for some time now questioned Ralph's management capability. He is average at best - always has been and always will be - let's face it apart from a couple of exceptions that's all we can attract/afford. Yes he saved us when he first arrived and briefly had us storming the league, until other teams sussed his only tactic and wailed like a baby. Overall his record over the 3 years is not that great and he is deeply inconsistent (previous post relating to him bending with the wind etc.). Real problem is I think he believes he is great (like Pep, Klopp etc.) and he's not - he's a one trick pony that has been found out, and every other manager knows how to play against him and week on week he does the same thing and expects a different outcome (definition of insanity).

Players don't help, but it's how he manages and motivates them - we have played different players, teams, supposedly tactics, etc. etc. but same outcome - what's the common factor? Clueless manager! Mac hasn't been great but to blame him, or rather accuse him of lying, about his injury as an excuse for losing - sorry Ralph you are so so out of order here. Players (JWP, defenders) drop back to help/protect/take kicks and the fecking manager doesn't think there's a problem with the keeper????? He is simply either lying or incompetent, either of which deserve instance sacking.

If he doesn't trust the 3rd keeper, than why have him at the club you moran?  I could go on about examples - Livro is odiously mentally drained and needs a rest and no harm in reminding him that at 18/19 he is not an automatic choice, but carry on and piss off our best player of last year. Yet, Obi, Tella and others are blanked out as they don't show  the right attitude.

This needs to change (and I am willing to take the gamble of the change) but it won't as we are too weak as a club - so evidenced by the manager commenting on takeover discussions - it's nothing to do with him - you're just an employee hired to do a job, that you are very clearly failing at.

I'm sure all the Ralph apologists will come down on me like a ton of bricks, but wake up and smell the coffee

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

and we have had a succession of poor ones before him, 

As in 2. Hardly a “succession”. Before that we had 4 who did very good jobs

[Whitey Grandad]

8 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

As in 2. Hardly a “succession”. Before that we had 4 who did very good jobs

I include Puel in that list, you may not be surprised to know.

Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman were a class above.

[sydenhamssocks]

1 hour ago, Red said:

I wanted to reflect in calm the day after and was also at a funeral/remembrance yesterday - which btw was very thought provoking and illustrated there are far more important things in life than football (although I was still checking the score on my mobile much to the annoyance of my wife).

I really don't know where to begin - truly! This is not a knee jerk reaction, as I have for some time now questioned Ralph's management capability. He is average at best - always has been and always will be - let's face it apart from a couple of exceptions that's all we can attract/afford. Yes he saved us when he first arrived and briefly had us storming the league, until other teams sussed his only tactic and wailed like a baby. Overall his record over the 3 years is not that great and he is deeply inconsistent (previous post relating to him bending with the wind etc.). Real problem is I think he believes he is great (like Pep, Klopp etc.) and he's not - he's a one trick pony that has been found out, and every other manager knows how to play against him and week on week he does the same thing and expects a different outcome (definition of insanity).

Players don't help, but it's how he manages and motivates them - we have played different players, teams, supposedly tactics, etc. etc. but same outcome - what's the common factor? Clueless manager! Mac hasn't been great but to blame him, or rather accuse him of lying, about his injury as an excuse for losing - sorry Ralph you are so so out of order here. Players (JWP, defenders) drop back to help/protect/take kicks and the fecking manager doesn't think there's a problem with the keeper????? He is simply either lying or incompetent, either of which deserve instance sacking.

If he doesn't trust the 3rd keeper, than why have him at the club you moran?  I could go on about examples - Livro is odiously mentally drained and needs a rest and no harm in reminding him that at 18/19 he is not an automatic choice, but carry on and piss off our best player of last year. Yet, Obi, Tella and others are blanked out as they don't show  the right attitude.

This needs to change (and I am willing to take the gamble of the change) but it won't as we are too weak as a club - so evidenced by the manager commenting on takeover discussions - it's nothing to do with him - you're just an employee hired to do a job, that you are very clearly failing at.

I'm sure all the Ralph apologists will come down on me like a ton of bricks, but wake up and smell the coffee

Absolutely agree. On his arrival he was hailed as the “Austrian Klopp” etc and soon endeared himself to fans and press alike. But apart from some ‘bounce’ early on, his time has been very average. With team selections and substitutions that can be described as erratic, at best and a supposed philosophy of football that changes when it suits him.
The mythical 4-2-2-2 formation may work somewhere in the world with different personnel, but it’s not really shaken the premier league at St Marys that’s for sure. The huge defeats, the worst run of form we’ve had, are all well documented and the ‘we can’t afford to sack him’ overused. 
Hassenhutl and Semmens seem to be in comfortable positions. One deciding who the right type of new owner should be whilst keeping the other one informed of situation on a daily basis. I presume the ‘right type’ would either keep them on or have the money to pay them off ! 
No one with any real football acumen sits above Ralph and it very often looks like no one with any real football acumen sits around him on match days either. I think a different manager/coach could get a bit more out of this squad with just a better approach and proper distribution of the players talents where they work best. 
I’m sure Ralph is a lovely fella etc but it’s definitely time to take what might be a chance in the current climate and secure a replacement or ultimately find new owners very soon who will move him on. 
The situation with McCarthy was extremely poorly handled by Ralph and doesn’t help his cause. 
There are a lot who still believe in Ralph and that of course is their prerogative, but the fear of losing a bang average manager shouldn’t cloud his poor record and judgment.
I was definitely a fan when he arrived, although the two poor previous incumbents may have clouded my desperation for change… so it’s easily done ! 
Happy now to see him find another challenge and let us kick on with someone new. Would be interesting to see how many current back room staff he would take with him, none I suspect, but that’s another story……... 

[Fitzhugh Fella]

2 hours ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Don’t hold out much hope against Arsenal but Palace and Brentford could be good chances to pick up more points.

I seem to remember after the Norwich debacle and the Liverpool mauling posters saying the same about the forthcoming home games v Leicester and Brighton. 

[Teddeer]

22 minutes ago, sydenhamssocks said:

Absolutely agree. On his arrival he was hailed as the “Austrian Klopp” etc and soon endeared himself to fans and press alike. But apart from some ‘bounce’ early on, his time has been very average. With team selections and substitutions that can be described as erratic, at best and a supposed philosophy of football that changes when it suits him.
The mythical 4-2-2-2 formation may work somewhere in the world with different personnel, but it’s not really shaken the premier league at St Marys that’s for sure. The huge defeats, the worst run of form we’ve had, are all well documented and the ‘we can’t afford to sack him’ overused. 
Hassenhutl and Semmens seem to be in comfortable positions. One deciding who the right type of new owner should be whilst keeping the other one informed of situation on a daily basis. I presume the ‘right type’ would either keep them on or have the money to pay them off ! 
No one with any real football acumen sits above Ralph and it very often looks like no one with any real football acumen sits around him on match days either. I think a different manager/coach could get a bit more out of this squad with just a better approach and proper distribution of the players talents where they work best. 
I’m sure Ralph is a lovely fella etc but it’s definitely time to take what might be a chance in the current climate and secure a replacement or ultimately find new owners very soon who will move him on. 
The situation with McCarthy was extremely poorly handled by Ralph and doesn’t help his cause. 
There are a lot who still believe in Ralph and that of course is their prerogative, but the fear of losing a bang average manager shouldn’t cloud his poor record and judgment.
I was definitely a fan when he arrived, although the two poor previous incumbents may have clouded my desperation for change… so it’s easily done ! 
Happy now to see him find another challenge and let us kick on with someone new. Would be interesting to see how many current back room staff he would take with him, none I suspect, but that’s another story……... 

Good post and a lot I agree with there. We can't continue with these second half collapses because we'll end up getting relegated. It may be or may not be this season but it'll happen. If Ralph could solve this issue he would have done so by now but we continue in the same vein.

[aintforever]

47 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

Good post and a lot I agree with there. We can't continue with these second half collapses because we'll end up getting relegated. It may be or may not be this season but it'll happen. If Ralph could solve this issue he would have done so by now but we continue in the same vein.

Without new owners it’s just a matter of time anyway. The second half collapses are infuriating but getting rid of Ralph could very well mean we end up with another Pelligrino. For a skint club like ours being 6 points above the relegation zone is not a reason to roll the dice IMO.

[Saint Billy]

If we are content with floating around the relegation places every season then Ralph is doing and will do a good job. 

In 3 years we should have seen some improvement. Despite the fact that we have limited to little funds there is still a reasonable squad in there. For me, wrong formations, wrong tactics, strange substitutions, playing out of form players, playing a goalkeeper who keeps losing us points soley lies at the feet of the manager. 

[aintforever]

10 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

If we are content with floating around the relegation places every season then Ralph is doing and will do a good job. 

In 3 years we should have seen some improvement. Despite the fact that we have limited to little funds there is still a reasonable squad in there. For me, wrong formations, wrong tactics, strange substitutions, playing out of form players, playing a goalkeeper who keeps losing us points soley lies at the feet of the manager. 

Not sure why you expect improvement when we are investing so little compared to others. I don’t think our squad is any better than our league position to be honest, we have some decent players but also a fair amount of shite we can’t get rid of because we can’t afford to.

[Maggie May]

Ralph blaming McCarthy could be a major flashpoint of this season. 

It’ll either give some players a wake up call or it’ll divide.

What I can’t grasp is this: if Lyanco was taking goal kicks, surely Ralph saw this? If a goalkeeper is unable to deliver balls upfield because of injury, you’d fathom, from a managerial perspective, that he needs to be subbed off, regardless of whether the player communicates it or not, no?

[Wade Garrett]

23 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Ralph blaming McCarthy could be a major flashpoint of this season. 

It’ll either give some players a wake up call or it’ll divide.

What I can’t grasp is this: if Lyanco was taking goal kicks, surely Ralph saw this? If a goalkeeper is unable to deliver balls upfield because of injury, you’d fathom, from a managerial perspective, that he needs to be subbed off, regardless of whether the player communicates it or not, no?

Absolutely.

He’s stirred up the dressing room now.  Doesn’t normally end well, rightly or wrongly, if a manager takes on the players.

I’ve no idea how this develops.  Ideally, he’ll be given the boot sooner rather than later.  Wonder how his fucking ‘playbook’ is looking now.

Terrible manager.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

👀

[Ex Lion Tamer]

59 minutes ago, Saint Billy said:

If we are content with floating around the relegation places every season then Ralph is doing and will do a good job. 

In 3 years we should have seen some improvement. Despite the fact that we have limited to little funds there is still a reasonable squad in there. For me, wrong formations, wrong tactics, strange substitutions, playing out of form players, playing a goalkeeper who keeps losing us points soley lies at the feet of the manager. 

What if we sign a keeper in January - won't we start doing quite a lot better points-wise and everything is rosy?

Edited 5 December, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Saint_clark]

54 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Ralph blaming McCarthy could be a major flashpoint of this season. 

It’ll either give some players a wake up call or it’ll divide.

What I can’t grasp is this: if Lyanco was taking goal kicks, surely Ralph saw this? If a goalkeeper is unable to deliver balls upfield because of injury, you’d fathom, from a managerial perspective, that he needs to be subbed off, regardless of whether the player communicates it or not, no?

He said he was aware McCarthy was unable to kick the ball with enough power to take goalkicks but wasn't told it was so bad he'd be unable to cover parts of his goal. 

[Saint_clark]

28 minutes ago, Wade Garrett said:

Absolutely.

He’s stirred up the dressing room now.  Doesn’t normally end well, rightly or wrongly, if a manager takes on the players.

I’ve no idea how this develops.  Ideally, he’ll be given the boot sooner rather than later.  Wonder how his fucking ‘playbook’ is looking now.

Terrible manager.

Only time I remember it happening here is Koeman slating the players, and it worked well for him.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Ralph is to football what blair was to politics. Starting out, they look good, talk good, but then you see them in action and its underwhelming. The you think, no really he is better than this, it's just not happening for him. Then as time goes by, you realise ah, he is actually pretty shite. Takes a while to realise it, but when you do see it, you can't un-see it.

[sydenhamssocks]

2 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Ralph is to football what blair was to politics. Starting out, they look good, talk good, but then you see them in action and its underwhelming. The you think, no really he is better than this, it's just not happening for him. Then as time goes by, you realise ah, he is actually pretty shite. Takes a while to realise it, but when you do see it, you can't un-see it.

Bingo!  I’m definitely at the ‘can’t un-see it stage. He’s poor! 

[Wade Garrett]

13 minutes ago, Saint_clark said:

Only time I remember it happening here is Koeman slating the players, and it worked well for him.

Football is littered with incidents of player power getting rid of managers.

[Red]

49 minutes ago, Maggie May said:

Ralph blaming McCarthy could be a major flashpoint of this season. 

It’ll either give some players a wake up call or it’ll divide.

What I can’t grasp is this: if Lyanco was taking goal kicks, surely Ralph saw this? If a goalkeeper is unable to deliver balls upfield because of injury, you’d fathom, from a managerial perspective, that he needs to be subbed off, regardless of whether the player communicates it or not, no?

See my earlier post.

Any respect I had for Ralph has just vanished with him rinsing Mac (who btw I don't think is particularly good) in public. Ralph has backed McCarthy even though most would have dropped him even briefly to make a point (which he is more than willing to do with others - Tella, Obi etc.). He has done this solely to recuse himself  - you simply cannot do that as a leader/manager. I manage a team and there is no way I would throw someone under the bus in public. Fine, rip him to shreds in private but not in public. What does it say about him as a manager if he was unaware of a situation most of the team were? In my view he is lying and would have claimed to be a great tactician if we had won, by saying that he kept an injured keeper on to close out the game with other experienced players rather than throw on a rookie - well you failed Ralph - man up and say you made a mistake and that these things happen in football/life and I/we will try and do better in future - that would have earned you a lot of respect at least from me. You are a coward for blaming someone else.

I really hope Mac now doesn't sign the new contract and neither does Fraser - would serve Ralph well. The longer we persist with his incompetency's, the worse our club will end up and longer we will take to recover (if ever). We would be better with no manager than him - let JWP have a go until we find someone better (at least he figured out Mac needed a bail out - surprise Rabbit Shit hasn't blamed him as well).

[Saint_Tony]

the views of fans seem to change from week to week. A few weeks back, there was concern of rumours of him leaving to go to Villa/Norwich, now we can't get rid of him quick enough. There have been some questionable tactical decisions, but this is an average squad; it may be difficult to accept, but we are no longer able to compete financially with many teams in this league. Martin Semmens spoke well about the subject on the Total Saints Podcast recently, and the reasons for not seeking a replacement. This may all change with a potential takeover, but unless we find ourselves in the relegation zone I don't think we will see any change.

 

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

Only time I remember it happening here is Koeman slating the players, and it worked well for him.

Managers have to make a judgement on which players can take a public slating and which can't. If Ralph feels that McCarthy can a) take it, and b) needs a kick up the arse, then it's fair enough.

I note that he didn't call out JWP. It did feel like a bit of an emotional reaction though.

Edited 5 December, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Saint_clark]

1 minute ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Managers have to make a judgement in which players can take a public slating and which can't. If Ralph feels that McCarthy can a) take it, and b) needs a kick up the arse, then it's fair enough.

I note that he didn't call out JWP. It did feel like a bit of an emotional reaction though.

He'd probably only found out just before the interview and had been having a shouting match with McCarthy about it.

[Forester]

5 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I include Puel in that list, you may not be surprised to know.

Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman were a class above.

I won’t resurrect the old arguments on Puel as we will be here forever but definitely would not include him in the Pellegrino category!

 

I think we should give Ralph the season and see whether we feel we are moving in the right direction.   Right now we are not in the danger zone and probably need four points from next four games to remain so.  It’s not the time to rock the boat in what is a tight table this year.

[saint lard]

“Breaking: Southampton will officially terminate the contract of Manager Ralph Hasenhüttl tomorrow as club back growing fan sentiment over unacceptable progress. More to follow. HR #SaintsFC”

From some supposed reporter for head of European sports for the economist. 
consultancy for AP and Reuters. 
bollix probably. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[CB Fry]

2 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Ralph is to football what blair was to politics. Starting out, they look good, talk good, but then you see them in action and its underwhelming. The you think, no really he is better than this, it's just not happening for him. Then as time goes by, you realise ah, he is actually pretty shite. Takes a while to realise it, but when you do see it, you can't un-see it.

Dreadful analogy when you consider Blair was one of the most successful people in his profession in the entire history of this country. 

Ralph has never really achieved anything of a comparable scale.

If he's a politician, he's a mildly competent Education Secretary. 

 

[Francis1947]

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

He said he was aware McCarthy was unable to kick the ball with enough power to take goalkicks but wasn't told it was so bad he'd be unable to cover parts of his goal. 

I am quite ambivalent about Ralph but what happened yesterday with McCarthy was I believe, truly bizarre. Ralph has been impressive in some things and extremely weak and questionable about others since he arrived.

However, I am truly at a loss with regards to how he re-acted to the injury to McCarthy. From his post match interview, he intimated tha he knew McCarthy had a problem but was unaware of its severity. He has many staff with him on the bench, including a dedicated goalkeeping coach. Why on earth didn't he send one of those guys to behind the goal to have a word with McCarthy and find out what the actual problem was. That is called managing the situation and it's one of the things he paid the big bucks for.

What happened yesterday was amateurish and humiliating for our club. Watching the match on Sky, it looked as though KWP had a word with McCarthy before the free kick to ask if he wanted him on he line. McCarthy seemed to decline but then Ward-Prowse seemed to suddenly panic and take it on himself to rush back to the goal line before the kick was taken. And then, he seeme to realise that he had made a bad decision and then rushed back to try and get the offside !

In watching Saints for over 60 years that was one of the more unusual things I have ever seen on the football pitch !

And then for our Manager to publicly criticise McCarthy is totally unacceptable. That is weak and rather cowardly and not semething I would hve expected from Ralph as I believe he is a man of principle.

Yesterday, I believe, was a defining moment in our season. All the frailities and weaknesses that we have seen time and time again.....the failure to score a second goal, the way Ralph seems incapable of reacting when the match turns against us or the opposing Manager changes the system, the falling away in our performance in almost every second half, the lack of any leadership on the pitch.

I'm extremely disappointed in the comments  Ralph made about McCarthy in the interview. This stuff should stay in the Dressing Room or on the training pitch on Monday morning . It seems to me that he was covering his back and is not a good sign for the morale of the side . This could be  very difficult next few weeks in my opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

      

2 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

 

 

[Roger]

2 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Ralph is to football what blair was to politics. Starting out, they look good, talk good, but then you see them in action and its underwhelming. The you think, no really he is better than this, it's just not happening for him. Then as time goes by, you realise ah, he is actually pretty shite. Takes a while to realise it, but when you do see it, you can't un-see it.

Blair was v good at politics and never lost 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 minutes ago, Francis1947 said:

I am quite ambivalent about Ralph but what happened yesterday with McCarthy was I believe, truly bizarre. Ralph has been impressive in some things and extremely weak and questionable about others since he arrived.

However, I am truly at a loss with regards to how he re-acted to the injury to McCarthy. From his post match interview, he intimated tha he knew McCarthy had a problem but was unaware of its severity. He has many staff with him on the bench, including a dedicated goalkeeping coach. Why on earth didn't he send one of those guys to behind the goal to have a word with McCarthy and find out what the actual problem was. That is called managing the situation and it's one of the things he paid the big bucks for.

What happened yesterday was amateurish and humiliating for our club. Watching the match on Sky, it looked as though KWP had a word with McCarthy before the free kick to ask if he wanted him on he line. McCarthy seemed to decline but then Ward-Prowse seemed to suddenly panic and take it on himself to rush back to the goal line before the kick was taken. And then, he seeme to realise that he had made a bad decision and then rushed back to try and get the offside !

In watching Saints for over 60 years that was one of the more unusual things I have ever seen on the football pitch !

And then for our Manager to publicly criticise McCarthy is totally unacceptable. That is weak and rather cowardly and not semething I would hve expected from Ralph as I believe he is a man of principle.

Yesterday, I believe, was a defining moment in our season. All the frailities and weaknesses that we have seen time and time again.....the failure to score a second goal, the way Ralph seems incapable of reacting when the match turns against us or the opposing Manager changes the system, the falling away in our performance in almost every second half, the lack of any leadership on the pitch.

I'm extremely disappointed in the comments  Ralph made about McCarthy in the interview. This stuff should stay in the Dressing Room or on the training pitch on Monday morning . It seems to me that he was covering his back and is not a good sign for the morale of the side . This could be  very difficult next few weeks in my opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

      

 

If McCarthy tells everybody that he’s ok to carry on then what can any manager do?

[Matthew Le God]

6 minutes ago, Roger said:

Blair was v good at politics and never lost 

He lost a by-election in 1982 and Labour's share of the vote dropped by 10% 😉

[Francis1947]

2 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

If McCarthy tells everybody that he’s ok to carry on then what can any manager do?

I accept what you are saying to a certain extent but players sometimes want to stay on the pitch when they know they probably shouldn't. Don't want to give up their firts team place.....maybe out of the side , they could lose some bonuses. All very commendable but a decision in making a replacement.lays with the Manager surely.

A cluee to how severe the injury was was surely that Lyanco was taking the goal kicks.

And I think my main point of my post was my disappointment in Ralphs public criticism of McCarthy after the match. I'm Old School and I don't think that is the way things should be done by a Manager.

 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

14 minutes ago, Francis1947 said:

I am quite ambivalent about Ralph but what happened yesterday with McCarthy was I believe, truly bizarre. Ralph has been impressive in some things and extremely weak and questionable about others since he arrived.

However, I am truly at a loss with regards to how he re-acted to the injury to McCarthy. From his post match interview, he intimated tha he knew McCarthy had a problem but was unaware of its severity. He has many staff with him on the bench, including a dedicated goalkeeping coach. Why on earth didn't he send one of those guys to behind the goal to have a word with McCarthy and find out what the actual problem was. That is called managing the situation and it's one of the things he paid the big bucks for.

What happened yesterday was amateurish and humiliating for our club. Watching the match on Sky, it looked as though KWP had a word with McCarthy before the free kick to ask if he wanted him on he line. McCarthy seemed to decline but then Ward-Prowse seemed to suddenly panic and take it on himself to rush back to the goal line before the kick was taken. And then, he seeme to realise that he had made a bad decision and then rushed back to try and get the offside !

In watching Saints for over 60 years that was one of the more unusual things I have ever seen on the football pitch !

And then for our Manager to publicly criticise McCarthy is totally unacceptable. That is weak and rather cowardly and not semething I would hve expected from Ralph as I believe he is a man of principle.

Yesterday, I believe, was a defining moment in our season. All the frailities and weaknesses that we have seen time and time again.....the failure to score a second goal, the way Ralph seems incapable of reacting when the match turns against us or the opposing Manager changes the system, the falling away in our performance in almost every second half, the lack of any leadership on the pitch.

I'm extremely disappointed in the comments  Ralph made about McCarthy in the interview. This stuff should stay in the Dressing Room or on the training pitch on Monday morning . It seems to me that he was covering his back and is not a good sign for the morale of the side . This could be  very difficult next few weeks in my opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

      

 

Are coaching staff allowed out of the technical area?

[Roger]

15 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

He lost a by-election in 1982 and Labour's share of the vote dropped by 10% 😉

Not as leader he didn’t 

[Matthew Le God]

8 minutes ago, Roger said:

Not as leader he didn’t 

You did not say he did not lose as a party leader. You said he hadn't lost in politics.

[Francis1947]

9 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Are coaching staff allowed out of the technical area?

That is a good point. Hadn't thought of that ! However, surely a Physio could have just trotted around to check on the pretext that he had an injury and he was investigating.

I think that sometimes our side have no " nouse ". You see time and time again sides come to St.Marys who time waste, have pretend injuries etc.  

May I make another point. Could not one of the more senior members of the side taken some responsibilty here and got a amessage to Ralph to say that McCarthy might just be needed to be replaced. 

 

[Badger]

9 minutes ago, Francis1947 said:

 

May I make another point. Could not one of the more senior members of the side taken some responsibilty here and got a amessage to Ralph to say that McCarthy might just be needed to be replaced. 

 

Perhaps they feared the prospect of Lewis having to come on.

[Badger]

47 minutes ago, Francis1947 said:

 

I'm extremely disappointed in the comments  Ralph made about McCarthy in the interview. This stuff should stay in the Dressing Room or on the training pitch on Monday morning . It seems to me that he was covering his back and is not a good sign for the morale of the side . This could be  very difficult next few weeks in my opinion. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

      

 

Some interesting comments in your post but just to respond on this point. I'm inclined to agree although it also be seen as refreshing that we get an honest response rather than trotting out a bland textbook response about "behind closed doors" etc.

Brian Clough once made his goalkeeper and a defender stand next to him like disgraced schoolboys  when he gave a post match interview after they'd made a balls up in a high profile match.  The GK was Peter Shilton, and no one questioned Cloughies man management at the time. (Think it was the League Cup final in 1980).

[Ex Lion Tamer]

51 minutes ago, Francis1947 said:

That is a good point. Hadn't thought of that ! However, surely a Physio could have just trotted around to check on the pretext that he had an injury and he was investigating.

I think that sometimes our side have no " nouse ". You see time and time again sides come to St.Marys who time waste, have pretend injuries etc.  

May I make another point. Could not one of the more senior members of the side taken some responsibilty here and got a amessage to Ralph to say that McCarthy might just be needed to be replaced. 

 

McCarthy would have to go down and obtain the referee's permission for the physio to come on.

I'm a bit more inclined to your point about a senior player stepping in, JWP has clearly had a total mare in those few minutes. But I'd also give some benefit of the doubt for decisions made in the heat of the moment.

Ultimately, it's on McCarthy for playing on while injured

Edited 5 December, 2021 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Whitey Grandad]

3 hours ago, Francis1947 said:

I accept what you are saying to a certain extent but players sometimes want to stay on the pitch when they know they probably shouldn't. Don't want to give up their firts team place.....maybe out of the side , they could lose some bonuses. All very commendable but a decision in making a replacement.lays with the Manager surely.

A cluee to how severe the injury was was surely that Lyanco was taking the goal kicks.

And I think my main point of my post was my disappointment in Ralphs public criticism of McCarthy after the match. I'm Old School and I don't think that is the way things should be done by a Manager.

 

But was he? Was he kicking a dead ball or was he picking up possession from a short pass by McCarthy?

I don’t know the answer myself but I didn’t notice anything unusual at the time bearing in mind the new goal kick ruling.

Edit: 

I’ve just recovered my recording of MOTD and I see what you mean about Lyanco.

Edited 6 December, 2021 by Whitey Grandad

[skintsaint]

7 hours ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

McCarthy would have to go down and obtain the referee's permission for the physio to come on.

They why didn't he? He is one of the more experienced players, would have taken the momentum away a little especially if the physio took a few mins.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

2 hours ago, skintsaint said:

They why didn't he? He is one of the more experienced players, would have taken the momentum away a little especially if the physio took a few mins.

Yes he should have

[Saint_clark]

11 hours ago, Francis1947 said:

 

A cluee to how severe the injury was was surely that Lyanco was taking the goal kicks.

 

But again, if Ralph had been led to believe that the ONLY consequence of his injury was that he was unable to kick the ball long, then he would feel safe in keeping him on. 

[Toussaint]

14 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

Ralph is to football what blair was to politics. Starting out, they look good, talk good, but then you see them in action and its underwhelming. The you think, no really he is better than this, it's just not happening for him. Then as time goes by, you realise ah, he is actually pretty shite. Takes a while to realise it, but when you do see it, you can't un-see it.

Hopefully that's where the similarity ends and  Ralph is setting up to invade Portsmouth under some flimsy pretext for eradicating the axis of inbreeding?

[Matthew Le God]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

But again, if Ralph had been led to believe that the ONLY consequence of his injury was that he was unable to kick the ball long, then he would feel safe in keeping him on. 

That doesn't really hold up, as there are occasions in open play where keepers need to kick long and not doing so puts the team under pressure.

[Christophenburg]

1 hour ago, Saint_clark said:

But again, if Ralph had been led to believe that the ONLY consequence of his injury was that he was unable to kick the ball long, then he would feel safe in keeping him on. 

I've been mulling on this all weekend and it's been really interesting to see the reaction, especially from fans on Twitter. For my 10p:

1 - By Ralph's own admission he knew McCarthy was injured - I mean we all knew! If you know a keeper is too injured to kick a ball, how the heck do you expect them to be able to dive? Requires a lot of the same muscles...

2 - My guess is that Ralph gambled because without Fraser on the bench he didn't want to risk Harry Lewis in goal. Whether Macca indicated he would give it a try, or Ralph just straight-up gambled I don't know. Either way, that spectacularly backfired and Ralph sought to blame McCarthy to cover his own handling of it. That's incredibly unprofessional from a manager in my opinion - will be interesting to see if there's any fall-out in the coming weeks

3 - JWP knew McCarthy was injured and knew he probably couldn't cover the whole goal. As it was a free-kick, and that's his speciality, he probably had a good idea of where it was likely to go and as Captain took it upon himself to support Macca on the line. That clearly backfired as the wall blocked the free-kick - wonder if the reaction would have been different if JWP had blocked it. Criticism of JWP isn't necessarily misplaced (particularly in the lead-up to the free-kick itself) but from my perspective he was trying to do the right thing to support Macca

4 - I've been genuinely surprised at the lengths some fans are going to to absolve Ralph of any responsibility for the darkle. It's absolutely staggering

5 - None of this would matter if we didn't crumble in the 2nd half every game!

[Ex Lion Tamer]

7 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

That doesn't really hold up, as there are occasions in open play where keepers need to kick long and not doing so puts the team under pressure.

I can't explain the mechanics but I've definitely seen it several times before where a keeper can't take his own kicks but is otherwise able to play on

[Mr X]

This isn't all Ralph's fault but I do feel after three years we really aren't that much better, 71 points lost from winning positions is staggeringly bad when you think the next closest is 56, what's disappointing  is he just hasnt shown that he can consistently learn from his mistakes (I know Saturday was individual mistakes too), when you add in all the other heavy defeats after this season it may be time for a change, how long is Ralph's contract 5 years or four? 

[trousers]

20 minutes ago, Christophenburg said:

JWP knew McCarthy was injured and knew he probably couldn't cover the whole goal. As it was a free-kick, and that's his speciality, he probably had a good idea of where it was likely to go and as Captain took it upon himself to support Macca on the line. That clearly backfired as the wall blocked the free-kick - wonder if the reaction would have been different if JWP had blocked it. Criticism of JWP isn't necessarily misplaced (particularly in the lead-up to the free-kick itself) but from my perspective he was trying to do the right thing to support Macca

No need to wonder... he'd have been hailed a hero/genuis if the free kick had cleared the wall and he'd prevented a goal. That's how the fickle-dom of football fan-ship works.

In the same way that Ralph would have been pilloried if he'd subbed McCarthy earlier and Lewis went on to concede two goals and lost us the game, or hailed a hero if Lewis had come on and pulled off a wonder save or two to preserve the victory. 

(Yes, I know the Saintsweb intelligentsia frown upon ifs and hypotheticals, so flak jacket duly donned. )

Edited 6 December, 2021 by trousers

[Matthew Le God]

25 minutes ago, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I can't explain the mechanics but I've definitely seen it several times before where a keeper can't take his own kicks but is otherwise able to play on

But were they still able to kick long in open play? If they weren't able to do a goal kick how could they do the former? Not being able to kick long in open play causes issues if the keeper is put under pressure and his short passing options are closed down.

Edited 6 December, 2021 by Matthew Le God

[Ex Lion Tamer]

9 minutes ago, Matthew Le God said:

But were they still able to kick long in open play? If they weren't able to do a goal kick how could they do the former? Not being able to kick long in open play causes issues if the keeper is put under pressure and his short passing options are closed down.

Frankly I can't remember, but I'd say that it's easier to kick a ball coming at you than a stationary one. Plus in open play it's easier to make sure a defender comes for a short pass or make sure players simply don't pass back to the keeper

[Teddeer]

4 hours ago, trousers said:

No need to wonder... he'd have been hailed a hero/genuis if the free kick had cleared the wall and he'd prevented a goal. That's how the fickle-dom of football fan-ship works.

In the same way that Ralph would have been pilloried if he'd subbed McCarthy earlier and Lewis went on to concede two goals and lost us the game, or hailed a hero if Lewis had come on and pulled off a wonder save or two to preserve the victory. 

(Yes, I know the Saintsweb intelligentsia frown upon ifs and hypotheticals, so flak jacket duly donned. )

If the free kick had cleared the wall there is no way JWP would have been able to jump high enough to head it away which makes his decision all the more ludicrous.