Ralph Hasenhuttl

[aintforever]

  On 09/05/2022 at 14:52, Saint Matty 76 said:

 

Thoughts on this? I think I actually agree with him (a first for talkSPORT).

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I think he's pretty much spot on, except for mentioning Bertrand. I thought we would probably go down this season as well to be honest.

[Badger]

  On 09/05/2022 at 09:41, Christophenburg said:

I know we don’t play for another 10 days, but I feel it says a lot that some of the lads have jetted off on holiday. I wonder just how much Ralph encourages the players to take responsibility, or even pushes them when they’re underperforming

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Poor in allowing that after such a shit show on Saturday. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

  On 09/05/2022 at 15:17, DT said:

I mean, it's a view. And he hasn't been helped by the flimsy mercenaries and don't care muppets like Redmond. But it's time for a change, in my view. Would happily take dour consistency for a bit rather than embarrassing powder puff heavy defeats.

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I think this hints at a fundamental point that cuts across all the discussion on here.

Both these things can be true:

1. Ralph has done well overall to keep us up each season and would probably keep us up again next year
2. The bad performances and strange decisions are extremely hard for loyal fans to watch and it's understandable that they want someone else who would be more consistent

Edited 9 May, 2022 by Ex Lion Tamer

[Saint Matty 76]

  On 09/05/2022 at 15:41, Ex Lion Tamer said:

I think this hints at a fundamental point that cuts across all the discussion on here.

Both these things can be true:

1. Ralph has done well overall to keep us up each season and would probably keep us up again next year
2. The bad performances and strange decisions are extremely hard for loyal fans to watch and it's understandable that they want someone else who would be more consistent

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Yeah I completely agree.

I also think we’d have almost all taken 40 points before the season started after we lost Ings. I’m sure you could spread our point total out in a different way which wouldn’t have led to this moment.

[DT]

There are better managers out there. And coaches. We need to make the change. Goalkeepers trying to coach outfield players is never going to work

[wooley7]

  On 09/05/2022 at 21:33, DT said:

There are better managers out there. And coaches. We need to make the change. Goalkeepers trying to coach outfield players is never going to work

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Would be interesting to know who was a better outfield player out of Kelvin Davis and Jose Mourinho.

[Baird of the land]

  On 09/05/2022 at 16:44, Saint Matty 76 said:

Yeah I completely agree.

I also think we’d have almost all taken 40 points before the season started after we lost Ings. I’m sure you could spread our point total out in a different way which wouldn’t have led to this moment.

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Sorry don’t agree. The idea that clinging off the relegation precipice would somehow be taken as a grand achievement if they’d just waited till the last day to achieve it is wrong.

[skintsaint]

  On 09/05/2022 at 22:22, wooley7 said:

Would be interesting to know who was a better outfield player out of Kelvin Davis and Jose Mourinho.

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I'd say Jose....if you can spot him 😅

[Kenilworthy]

Staggered that Ralph wasn't sacked yesterday. Wonder if the board are waiting for the result of the Leeds v Chelsea game tomorrow to decide if immediate action is needed?

[Smirking_Saint]

  On 10/05/2022 at 07:01, Kenilworthy said:

Staggered that Ralph wasn't sacked yesterday. Wonder if the board are waiting for the result of the Leeds v Chelsea game tomorrow to decide if immediate action is needed?

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Why would you sack him 3 games before the end if the season ? I know that there is a significant sway of anti Ralph thinking but Im not sure anything changes at all over these next 3 games and IMO Ralph doesn’t deserve that show of disrespect 

He may not have had the best end of this season but he is still working hard and trying to make things happen for us

[Toussaint]

  On 10/05/2022 at 07:01, Kenilworthy said:

Staggered that Ralph wasn't sacked yesterday. Wonder if the board are waiting for the result of the Leeds v Chelsea game tomorrow to decide if immediate action is needed?

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I think he will only leave if it's his decision.

[MAY-Z]

  On 10/05/2022 at 07:30, Smirking_Saint said:

Why would you sack him 3 games before the end if the season ? I know that there is a significant sway of anti Ralph thinking but Im not sure anything changes at all over these next 3 games and IMO Ralph doesn’t deserve that show of disrespect 

He may not have had the best end of this season but he is still working hard and trying to make things happen for us

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If we need something from the final day I would think about a change before that match, plenty of examples of a change bringing a result

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

  On 10/05/2022 at 07:30, Smirking_Saint said:

Why would you sack him 3 games before the end if the season ? I know that there is a significant sway of anti Ralph thinking but Im not sure anything changes at all over these next 3 games and IMO Ralph doesn’t deserve that show of disrespect 

He may not have had the best end of this season but he is still working hard and trying to make things happen for us

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LLLLDLWLDLL - only 3 of those games have been against top 6

You could describe that as "may not have had the best end of season" I'd say, coupled with similar runs in the recent past, it's sackable. I can only think we're too skint to pay him off. 

 

[DT]

  On 10/05/2022 at 07:34, Toussaint said:

I think he will only leave if it's his decision.

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As if he would forgo millions in compensation…

[Toussaint]

  On 10/05/2022 at 09:23, DT said:

As if he would forgo millions in compensation…

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In not suggesting he will go, I just don't think he will be pushed. Or it could be a mutual agreement arrangement, whereby he is compensated. 

[imadirtyurchin]

I’ve always been a Ralph supporter - I think he was a charismatic and positive appointment when the club was sinking fast post Pellegrino and Hughes. He’s overseen an improvement in the entire youth system (look at the recess upturn of the youth teams) after it being decimated post-pochettino. (koeman I’m looking at you here) under a horrifically constrained financial situation. The club with his appointment were operating on a longer-term project. We need that long term project to succeed to ensure the success and ability of the club to compete. short term appointments ala Hughes. (Or Big Sam, or Pardew et al) arent what we need longer term. 
 

This will be the first summer of not (hopefully) being so constrained financially - allowing us to invest in a core group of players with the right skills to play Ralph’s system effectively. Particularly as they will have spent months identifying these players already.  I believe it’s worth backing him this summer to see if the project can be taken to the next step - I’d hate to see the progress lost (and there has been progress) with the influx of a new guy and different ideas and priorities. I’d hate to see players bought that were unsuitable for a new manager (we’ve all been there - and we’re only (finally) coming to a point where we can change the squad wholesale and get rid of the underachievers))
 

BUT Ralph has to learn: he needs a replacement for Danny Rohl - a voice he must listen too. He has to learn to be responsive during games.

I too have lost patience with the bullshit team selections and adherence to tactics that just don’t suit our out of form players. There has to be more pragmatism in the short term.

it’s hard going into games feeling despondent about our chances. I too understand the frustration and anger that lots of our fans are feeling. The recent performances are not acceptable - and that should be made clear - to the players and to Ralph. 
 

To be able to watch Saints without fear as soon as a goal goes in against us : fearing an imminent collapse would be great. Scoring goals also would be appreciated.

 

and for the love of god - sort out our back room staff. Defensive /set piece coach??!! That has to be a change in approach or personnel. We definitely don’t have a top tier coaching setup at the moment. 
 

I think the club hierarchy need to be accountable for our current situation- but I don’t think this is the time to blink - my only caveat to this is if Ankersen (sp?) has a definite succession plan, with targets and a manager ready to go immediately. Then we have to trust them to take us forward. 

[Dman]

  On 10/05/2022 at 09:32, imadirtyurchin said:

 

I too have lost patience with the bullshit team selections and adherence to tactics that just don’t suit our out of form players. There has to be more pragmatism in the short term.

 

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He’s had 3 years to find and refine a style which suits us and is sustainable across 38 games. 

If he’s not learned already, then I really fear he never will. We’re never going to be a club who will go out and buy 10/11 players to suit the managers style. 
 

A good manager will adapt his style to suit his squad. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think Ralph is capable of doing that. 

[Rebel]

I was leaning towards sacking Ralph after the last couple of results.

But now I think its a case of the club needing to back him rather than sack - and that means investing in the playing squad as well as rebuilding the coaching set up to support him.

I think every supporter can see the need for better coaching team to support Ralph.

They also need to clear out the deadwood in the squad and refresh it - as well as strengthen it.  Players like Redmond, Djenepo and Bednarek need to be moved on and replaced.

And more importantly they need to add more depth to the squad - both in quality and quantity. 

For example its no coincidence we are struggling at the tail end of the season  when we only have 3 first team central midfielders in JWP, Romeu and Diallo - and only one of those is a holding midfielder in Romeu (I see Armstrong and Smallbone as attacking midfielders).  And if he is out injured, banned or off form we have no cover there - and JWP and Diallo are too lightweight as a pair.  

We need 2 add least 1 CDM and 1 CM whether we are going to play 2 or 3 in midfield to provide the cover and competition needed across a full season.

If they back him and there is no improvement then they do need to sack him.

[imadirtyurchin]

@DmanI think those fears are understandable - Ralph certainly appears to be an ideologue at times and it’s super frustrating. I think this is why the need for more voices and changes in the coaching setup. And I think it’s something that Ralph has to address.

 

as to buying players - that’s the crux for this summer isn’t it?! And unfortunately we won’t know, until the summer is over, what money the new owners will or won’t spend. We’ve been led to believe it will be a busy summer (ongoings and out goings). We desperately need investment to improve the quality of the squad in at least 5/6 key positions… will that happen? I don’t know. The noises from semmens etc are that “we should be better able to compete” but no fan knows atm. I fear we don’t have the money but I hope we do. We’ll see.

 

for the reasons I’ve stated above - I would stick with Ralph at the moment barring a new plan/direction from Ankersen. Even if that comes to pass - we still need to invest in the squad - it’s just not good enough at the moment. So i guess it comes down to whether the new owners still trust Ralph to go forward and continue the progress. (And there has been progress through the club as a whole)

Edited 10 May, 2022 by imadirtyurchin
For clarity

[Dman]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:22, imadirtyurchin said:

@DmanI think those fears are understandable - Ralph certainly appears to be an ideologue at times and it’s super frustrating. I think this is why the need for more voices and changes in the coaching setup. And I think it’s something that Ralph has to address.

 

as to buying players - that’s the crux for this summer isn’t it?! And unfortunately we won’t know, until the summer is over, what money the new owners will or won’t spend. We’ve been led to believe it will be a busy summer (ongoings and out goings). We desperately need investment to improve the quality of the squad in at least 5/6 key positions… will that happen? I don’t know. The noises from semmens etc are that “we should be better able to compete” but no fan knows atm. I fear we don’t have the money but I hope we do. We’ll see.

 

for the reasons I’ve stated above - I would stick with Ralph at the moment barring a new plan/direction from Ankersen. Even if that comes to pass - we still need to invest in the squad - it’s just not good enough at the moment. So i guess it comes down to whether the new owners still trust Ralph to go forward and continue the progress. (And there has been progress through the club as a whole)

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Fair enough. Certainly feels like a stick or twist moment for the club. 

Stick with Ralph and potentially waste another summer buying players to suit his style / formation, or give the new man a summer to build a squad in a similar way to Vieria at Palace. 
 

Either way; a huge summer for the club. A lot we need to shift and a lot we need to buy. 

[Charlie Wayman]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:12, Dman said:

He’s had 3 years to find and refine a style which suits us and is sustainable across 38 games. 

If he’s not learned already, then I really fear he never will. We’re never going to be a club who will go out and buy 10/11 players to suit the managers style. 
 

A good manager will adapt his style to suit his squad. From what I’ve seen, I don’t think Ralph is capable of doing that. 

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Head of the Nail. Well said! The nettle must be grasped, rank bad management that it hasn't been already. Suggests Semmens is spineless, all talk but no walk.

Get rid of the pair of them.

[Lighthouse]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:42, Charlie Wayman said:

Head of the Nail. Well said! The nettle must be grasped, rank bad management that it hasn't been already. Suggests Semmens is spineless, all talk but no walk.

Get rid of the pair of them.

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No, it’s nonsense. Leeds had a, "style which suits and was sustainable across 38 games," last season. Everyone figured it out and now they’re most likely getting relegated. Managers have to be flexible and adaptable to the opposition they’re playing, otherwise their teams are predictable to play against.

[Dman]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:50, Lighthouse said:

No, it’s nonsense. Leeds had a, "style which suits and was sustainable across 38 games," last season. Everyone figured it out and now they’re most likely getting relegated. Managers have to be flexible and adaptable to the opposition they’re playing, otherwise their teams are predictable to play against.

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Which Ralph isn’t and is why he needs to go. 

Finding a style which is sustainable means being tactically flexible, by every definition of being sustainable. 

[Ex Lion Tamer]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:50, Lighthouse said:

No, it’s nonsense. Leeds had a, "style which suits and was sustainable across 38 games," last season. Everyone figured it out and now they’re most likely getting relegated. Managers have to be flexible and adaptable to the opposition they’re playing, otherwise their teams are predictable to play against.

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Somehow Leeds managed to sustain it last season but otherwise Bielsa teams always wilt towards the end of the season, because he overtrains them.

Their players are just not good enough and only performed last season due to promotion momentum

[Toussaint]

  On 10/05/2022 at 11:26, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Somehow Leeds managed to sustain it last season but otherwise Bielsa teams always wilt towards the end of the season, because he overtrains them.

Their players are just not good enough and only performed last season due to promotion momentum

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And having their best players available which hasn’t been the case this season 

[Alan Sugarfree]

  On 10/05/2022 at 11:26, Ex Lion Tamer said:

Somehow Leeds managed to sustain it last season but otherwise Bielsa teams always wilt towards the end of the season, because he overtrains them.

Their players are just not good enough and only performed last season due to promotion momentum

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Leeds had a terrible injury crisis to a number of their main players, much like we suffered from last year. I gave Ralph the benefit of that for the drop off in form the final third of last season. This season Ralph hasn’t got that excuse yet the season is finishing exactly as last years did.

For me, I’d replace him Ralph rather than waste another summer transfer window bringing in his style of player (ones that aren’t fighters or leaders) otherwise we’ll be having this same conversation next March/April time.

[jawillwill]

  On 09/05/2022 at 09:49, Christophenburg said:

Definitely Lyanco - he’s in pictures his Mrs is taking in Ibiza. Rumour is Romeu is with him

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This seems to be based on this tweet from what I can tell. And I doubt PL players from Southampton bother with cheap EasyJet flights from Luton Airport. Suggest its not a rumour worth getting your knickers in a twist over. 

 

 

[Bad Wolf]

  On 10/05/2022 at 09:23, DT said:

As if he would forgo millions in compensation…

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Well he offered to resign after one of the 9-0's and his resignation was rejected. Say what you like about his managerial prowess but he's a lovely man who genuinely wants what's best for the club. I'm not saying I think he SHOULD forgo the compo, I certainly wouldn't, I just think he might.

[Chez]

  On 09/05/2022 at 21:33, DT said:

Goalkeepers trying to coach outfield players is never going to work

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I remember you saying just that as we clinched our second promotion under Adkins. 😉

[Chez]

The owners are the ones with the £200m at stake, and when it comes to our Premiership status, they will ask themselves, what's the bigger risk, retaining Ralph or bringing someone new in?

 

[Christophenburg]

  On 10/05/2022 at 12:13, jawillwill said:

This seems to be based on this tweet from what I can tell. And I doubt PL players from Southampton bother with cheap EasyJet flights from Luton Airport. Suggest its not a rumour worth getting your knickers in a twist over. 

 

 

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It isn’t. Lyanco’s wife posted a picture on Instagram dated 5th May of Lyanco in Ibiza…

[DT]

  On 10/05/2022 at 12:45, Chez said:

I remember you saying just that as we clinched our second promotion under Adkins. 😉

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Ok rubbish goalkeepers...

😉

But seriously, Kelvin Davis? Do we really think he and the team are improving players/tactics? I see no evidence; even players like Tino come in and look world-beaters, slowly having the zip and guile drawn out of them. Just feel it's time for a fresh start because Ralph and his mates don't appear to be grounded in tactical nous, or indeed authority. I liked Adkins, but wouldn't for a minute think he would do anything remotely good enough in the Premier. Maybe if we did drop down we could give him a call, though...

[Bad Wolf]

  On 10/05/2022 at 16:54, DT said:

Ok rubbish goalkeepers...

😉

But seriously, Kelvin Davis? Do we really think he and the team are improving players/tactics? I see no evidence; even players like Tino come in and look world-beaters, slowly having the zip and guile drawn out of them. Just feel it's time for a fresh start because Ralph and his mates don't appear to be grounded in tactical nous, or indeed authority. I liked Adkins, but wouldn't for a minute think he would do anything remotely good enough in the Premier. Maybe if we did drop down we could give him a call, though...

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He's had his time and failed a few times in the lower divisions since we let him go. I wouldn't want him back now, mainly for practical reasons but also I wouldn't want his memory tarnished. We had three(ish?) great years under Nigel, let that be the memory.

[Baird of the land]

  On 10/05/2022 at 17:13, Bad Wolf said:

He's had his time and failed a few times in the lower divisions since we let him go. I wouldn't want him back now, mainly for practical reasons but also I wouldn't want his memory tarnished. We had three(ish?) great years under Nigel, let that be the memory.

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For sentimental reasons (given how shabbily he was treated) i wouldn’t have an issue with Adkins coming back. It probably wouldn’t work but when you’ve been through the likes of Hughes / pellegrino / puel you know there’s worse possibilities out there.

[Ex Lion Tamer]

  On 10/05/2022 at 18:10, Baird of the land said:

For sentimental reasons (given how shabbily he was treated) i wouldn’t have an issue with Adkins coming back. It probably wouldn’t work but when you’ve been through the likes of Hughes / pellegrino / puel you know there’s worse possibilities out there.

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We'd get relegated

[Bad Wolf]

  On 10/05/2022 at 18:10, Baird of the land said:

For sentimental reasons (given how shabbily he was treated) i wouldn’t have an issue with Adkins coming back. It probably wouldn’t work but when you’ve been through the likes of Hughes / pellegrino / puel you know there’s worse possibilities out there.

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Not really sure he was treated THAT badly. We saw someone better for the job. Nigel is a lovely bloke and so is Ralph but you can't keep people just because they're likable or we'd just give Dave Merrington the job back.

[SuperSAINT]

"Ralph Hasenhuttl still has the backing of the Southampton hierarchy despite increasing fan pressure on his position as manager... with the Austrian set to be backed in the transfer market this summer to overhaul his Saints squad"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10802693/Ralph-Hasenhuttl-backing-Southampton-hierarchy.html

[The Kraken]

  On 10/05/2022 at 10:29, Dman said:

Fair enough. Certainly feels like a stick or twist moment for the club. 

Stick with Ralph and potentially waste another summer buying players to suit his style / formation, or give the new man a summer to build a squad in a similar way to Vieria at Palace. 
 

Either way; a huge summer for the club. A lot we need to shift and a lot we need to buy. 

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Vieira’s status seems a bit overstated to me. Palace gained 44 points last season under Roy Hodgson, they finished 14th. Depending on which report you read, Palace had a summer transfer net spend of £60m to £80m. They are currently 10th but only on 44 points, so we’ll see how much difference all that outlay makes to points total and league finish.

[Toadhall Saint]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:05, SuperSAINT said:

"Ralph Hasenhuttl still has the backing of the Southampton hierarchy despite increasing fan pressure on his position as manager... with the Austrian set to be backed in the transfer market this summer to overhaul his Saints squad"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10802693/Ralph-Hasenhuttl-backing-Southampton-hierarchy.html

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Would seem about right.

[Saint Garrett]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:05, SuperSAINT said:

"Ralph Hasenhuttl still has the backing of the Southampton hierarchy despite increasing fan pressure on his position as manager... with the Austrian set to be backed in the transfer market this summer to overhaul his Saints squad"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10802693/Ralph-Hasenhuttl-backing-Southampton-hierarchy.html

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I’d still be pretty happy with him being here this season, but changes are definitely needed.  If he does stick about, it will be interesting to see what we do in the summer, and we need to hit the ground running next season. A bad start and it’s all a waste of time. 

[DT]

Definitely skint. Bad decision. 

[captainchris]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:05, SuperSAINT said:

"Ralph Hasenhuttl still has the backing of the Southampton hierarchy despite increasing fan pressure on his position as manager... with the Austrian set to be backed in the transfer market this summer to overhaul his Saints squad"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10802693/Ralph-Hasenhuttl-backing-Southampton-hierarchy.html

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How motivating ….. 

I take it therefore that Ralph has submitted a blueprint to change his formation because if not this support would be ludicrous…. 

[Suhari]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:05, SuperSAINT said:

"Ralph Hasenhuttl still has the backing of the Southampton hierarchy despite increasing fan pressure on his position as manager... with the Austrian set to be backed in the transfer market this summer to overhaul his Saints squad"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10802693/Ralph-Hasenhuttl-backing-Southampton-hierarchy.html

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Some interesting snippets in that: how close to the club are the Mail?

Mentions "new goalkeeper, centre-back and reinforcements in attack."

And FF being offered a new deal??!

 

[ErwinK1961]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:57, Suhari said:

Some interesting snippets in that: how close to the club are the Mail?

Mentions "new goalkeeper, centre-back and reinforcements in attack."

And FF being offered a new deal??!

 

 

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That read to me like a rehash of old information. Ralph mentioned several weeks ago that they would consider offering Fraser fresh terms (not that he’ll ever sign it mind).

And stories we want a GK, CB and attackers have been doing the rounds for weeks. Nothing new in that article really

[SuperSAINT]

  On 10/05/2022 at 20:28, ErwinK1961 said:

Nothing new in that article really

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Aside from the main part of it re: Ralph 

[ErwinK1961]

  On 10/05/2022 at 20:30, SuperSAINT said:

Aside from the main part of it re: Ralph 

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Hmm, I wouldn’t say that’s new either really. They’ve been pretty steadfast in supporting Ralph for a long time, didn’t see that changing.

[saint1977]

  On 10/05/2022 at 19:57, Suhari said:

Some interesting snippets in that: how close to the club are the Mail?

Mentions "new goalkeeper, centre-back and reinforcements in attack."

And FF being offered a new deal??!

 

 

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I doubt the bit about Forster, certain I can be without being ITK that he’s going. Turned down lower terms earlier in the season, has had a better season than the last 3 or 4, and could pick up £70k p/w sitting on a CL bench for 2 years. Has been awful value since the second extension but the Arsenal display probably ensured survival.

Rest of it matches what’s come out of other outlets - GK needs to be 1st choice but probably won’t be, CB yes but need to shift Bednarek Valery, and Stephens, and attack well state the flipping obvious. No mention of a DMC or a couple of 10s which are also absolute minimum purchases. I can’t see anything other than relegation by a Derby County/Norwich margin unless those positions have much improved starters with pace and power to give JWP, KWP and Oriol half a chance of competing in games without having to do 2 or 3 players jobs because the player in front of them should be playing in the Championship eg Redmond, Ely, Theo, any of them really. The only outfield players we have who consistently deserve to grace a Southampton shirt are the three above eg WPs and Romeu plus Salisu when he can be bothered, plus Broja who is Chelsea’s.

That combined with a manager who leaves the back door open every game. Why he didn’t learn from the Arsenal where they shut down the space is beyond me. 

Edited 10 May, 2022 by saint1977

[Baird of the land]

Hope article is nonsense. We’ve spent 2 years getting rid of Gunn and waiting to get rid of forster. To then extend forster and buy a replacement Gunn would be idiotic.

[DT]

Article read to me a bit like a journo ‘briefing’ aimed a getting an easy ear and putting out some positive messages in order to tickle the season ticket sales. Actually hope the Forster bit is true but suspect not. Also think we’re supporting Ralph because it is cheaper and we have no money. Hope there are firmer hands on the tiller. 

[DT]

Or is it a prelude to selling JWP to fund these moves?