Burnley 3-0 Saints - Reactions

[Miltonaggro]

Agreed!

I honestly would replace Gunn, Valery, Vestergaard, Romeu and Ings next week with... McCarthy, Yoshi, Cedric, Hojberg and Boufal. And I’m not just being knee jerk after today, I honestly think the latter 5 are upgrades on what we started with today.

 

Spot on! But he won’t.

[Batman]

Ings was shyte

Adams was Shyte

Valery was OK

Stephens/Vest were shyte

Gunn was shyte

 

thought jwp, Rom, Bertrand and redmond were decent - all individually

[Convict Colony]

thought ball retention was terrible too many misplaced passes.

 

Could of been so different if that Adams attempt in the first few mins has gone in.

 

Thought ings provided nothing, Romeu looked like he was getting back to his destroying best (maybe an early call) or maybe his desire to win the ball stood out from the rest.

 

Redmond and Valery had good games thought we were overrun in midfield, not sure having 3 CBs provided any benefit.

 

Liverpool next and I think we need to try something different, we can't do this again with the same personnel.

 

Feck it go 4-2-2-2 and take it as a learning opportunity even if we get spanked.

[Jack]

We made a mess of simple passes SO many times when breaking in the first hour. Get it right and it’s 4 on 4 or 4 on 3, but we didn’t and the chances were wasted. So frustrating.

 

The defending for the first 2 isn’t even worth talking about. CB has been a priority position to strengthen for about 2 years and we still haven’t really done anything about it. Yoshida should be our worst option as it was a few years ago, not our best.

[aintforever]

Watching the goals again Vestergaard could be forgiven for the first. Hard to judge the ball flight in that wind and it seemed to just take off over his head

 

That ******, if it’s windy you take that into account and take a few steps back, a school kid could be forgiven for something like that, not a Premier League player.

 

Vestergaard gifted them two soft goals and could have done better for the third with his half arsed attempt to get across.

[Shroppie]

I know it's defying convention, but as I've seen nothing of the game, I'll refrain from slagging off the whole team and defining us as relegation fodder.

 

Although from the brief report I read, it sounds as if Vestergaard in particular still has the ability to drop at least one clanger a game. And it sounds like an awful game on a miserable day.

 

Reality check. Serious talking and sorting out needed from Ralph. Blue line. Start again next week.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

[eelpie]

Spot on! But he won’t.

 

It is going to be very interesting to see how Ralph responds following our defensive cave-in. And we have some top free-scoring opponents ahead.

[redder freak]

I hope we don’t miss Danny Rohl for the video analysis. It all feels dodgy now.

[Heisenberg]

I hope we don’t miss Danny Rohl for the video analysis. It all feels dodgy now.

 

If you've watched the man city doc you'll see how much emphasis they seem to put in video analysis and seemed to have 3 or 4 people across it.

 

Pep would then discreetly adapt accordingly.

 

City with the players they have could probably dominate most teams just playing the same way every week.... But still dedicate huge resource to this.

 

Feels like a big gap now for us, assuming we haven't replaced Rohl internally.

 

Just feels like a role that needs proper expertise as well as great awareness of Ralph and our squad to perform effectively.

 

Could well be that Ralph has lost a big source of his powers (aware that he's worked without Rohl before)

 

Time will tell

[Whitey Grandad]

That ******, if it’s windy you take that into account and take a few steps back, a school kid could be forgiven for something like that, not a Premier League player.

 

Vestergaard gifted them two soft goals and could have done better for the third with his half arsed attempt to get across.

I agree, and what was Stephens doing with his Dancing on Ice performance?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I agree, and what was Stephens doing with his Dancing on Ice performance?

 

People are too quick to blame the whipping boy Jack Stephens for all our ills. But Angus Gunn was massively at fault for our first and Vestergaard culpable for our second (and a bit for the first). Bertrand was caught napping for our third (sometimes he comes over as far too laid back).

Ralph was guilty of trying to be too clever, playing Ings out wide with Adams inside, a reversal from the Cologne fixture when the pair had more impact.

We all rate the manager, he's a smart, shrewd guy, but I hope he doesn't swallow all the hype that has built up during the summer and I think he will miss his sidekick.

[wadesmith]

Elephant in the room. Ralph needs help. Jobs to big for him on his own. There's a reason why managers (including Ralph) have assistant managers, without one we will probably be relegated, which is a shame, but my favourite season was watching us in the championship, so it's not all bad!

[shurlock]

People are too quick to blame the whipping boy Jack Stephens for all our ills. But Angus Gunn was massively at fault for our first and Vestergaard culpable for our second (and a bit for the first). Bertrand was caught napping for our third (sometimes he comes over as far too laid back).

Ralph was guilty of trying to be too clever, playing Ings out wide with Adams inside, a reversal from the Cologne fixture when the pair had more impact.

We all rate the manager, he's a smart, shrewd guy, but I hope he doesn't swallow all the hype that has built up during the summer and I think he will miss his sidekick.

 

You think Vestergaard was only a bit culpable for their first?

Edited 11 August, 2019 by shurlock

[Useful Idiot]

Always expected this to be a tough match for us and would have been very happy with a point before the game. I am disappointed that we let in 3, but considering how mentally fragile our players are I'm not completely surprised either.

 

Burnley play in a way that pretty much counters the way we are set up. Conditions favoured them. Our defence is simply not good enough to handle being bombarded with long balls, while Burnley are set up to feed their strikers that way.

 

As we decided to only sign an unproven youngster to bolster our terrible defence, I am absolutely not surprised we let in a lot of goals. Especially with Stephens playing. He played 23 times last season and we conceded 39 goals in those games and only kept 5 clean sheets. Playing him is like giving your opponents a free goal as a head start.

[VectisSaint]

People are too quick to blame the whipping boy Jack Stephens for all our ills. But Angus Gunn was massively at fault for our first and Vestergaard culpable for our second (and a bit for the first). Bertrand was caught napping for our third (sometimes he comes over as far too laid back).

Ralph was guilty of trying to be too clever, playing Ings out wide with Adams inside, a reversal from the Cologne fixture when the pair had more impact.

We all rate the manager, he's a smart, shrewd guy, but I hope he doesn't swallow all the hype that has built up during the summer and I think he will miss his sidekick.

 

There is a lot of blame going on against several players, some of it justified, but in the end the real issue so often is that our midfield (including our wing backs or whatever they are called) are not closing down enough and protecting the back line. Yes our CBs and keeper are making a hash of things at times but we invite the opposition on so often. Second goal yesterday case in point, no one in the middle got anywhere near their players. Happens too often, JWP, Hojbjerg, Valery, Bertrand all hugely guilty.

[kermitsaint]

We are a poor side with what's looking like a manager that flatters to deceive. Wasn't really surprised with the result. Going to be a long season in the lower half of the table. The amount of strengthening we need is just too big to happen regardless of how rich our owner is.

I feel sorry for Gao. He was conned and sold a dud.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Jonnyboy]

What an obsession.

 

No comments on the game? Or is it more about your little grudges? Don’t think I need an answer.

 

Can you please stop sending me unsolicited PMs.

[sadoldgit]

We are a poor side with what's looking like a manager that flatters to deceive. Wasn't really surprised with the result. Going to be a long season in the lower half of the table. The amount of strengthening we need is just too big to happen regardless of how rich our owner is.

I feel sorry for Gao. He was conned and sold a dud.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

So we have gone from being an average side with a decent manager to being a crap side with a crap manager after the first game of the season? No we haven’t. We are still an average side who put in a poor display for the last third of the game with a decent manager. For all of the reasons that we understand, we are still stuck with some players that need to be moved on. It clearly isn’t an easy job to ship them out and get the right replacements in and as has been said, it will take 2 to 3 windows to sort the mess out. 2 of the new signings did not play yesterday. Even for this forum, throwing the towel in after just 1 game takes drama queenary to a new level.

[whelk]

Can you please stop sending me unsolicited PMs.

 

Bless. Too dumb to see it for months and then too ungracious to see it was helpful advice to some question you actually asked.

Some stiff competition here but you are the saddest and probably the nastiest I have come across.

[Red]

Bad day at the office - well bad half day (2nd half) at the away office in awful conditions. Better to know our limitations early doors (RH fuming afterwards) and correct.

We have tinkered, and arguably improved our squad somewhat over last year, but the reality is we have been dire for at least the last two years, and you cannot fix that over night even without massive spend (which we cannot afford). So all we can realistically hope for is a marginal improvement on last year and three worse teams than us.

 

Why should we expect any more than a slight improvement on last year? It will be a bumpy ride for sure, but I am hopeful we might improve a place or two on last year's finish

[Jonnyboy]

Bless. Too dumb to see it for months and then too ungracious to see it was helpful advice to some question you actually asked.

Some stiff competition here but you are the saddest and probably the nastiest I have come across.

 

Says the "man" who only a couple of days ago was shouting "pr!ck" at another poor user on here for voicing his opinion on Saints players.

[whelk]

Says the "man" who only a couple of days ago was shouting "pr!ck" at another poor user on here for voicing his opinion on Saints players.

 

As so often you show that you aren’t that smart at following.

 

It wasn’t shouting I typed it. And was response to the offer of £100 bet to another poster on a player scoring or not. On the internet. Sensitive soul.

 

Anyway this is tedious for others so let’s cease

[Red]

Says the "man" who only a couple of days ago was shouting "pr!ck" at another poor user on here for voicing his opinion on Saints players.

 

Cheers Jonnyboy - I'm the said tool, who felt Ings was not yet on form (or at least that was the message most would have taken), and guess what Ralf agreed by taking him off. But hey what do I know?

[Dellman]

Has anyone discovered why Yoshida wasn't picked?

[Heisenberg]

Has anyone discovered why Yoshida wasn't picked?

 

He's not great either. He gets better (in people's minds) longer he is out. Then returns and is error prone as the rest.

 

The issue is that we have 5-6 CBs and they are all ****e

 

We just have to hope now that KD is the absolute business

[Red]

As so often you show that you aren’t that smart at following.

 

It wasn’t shouting I typed it. And was response to the offer of £100 bet to another poster on a player scoring or not. On the internet. Sensitive soul.

 

Anyway this is tedious for others so let’s cease

 

Never heard of analogy I guess? Point was not the bet - rather Ings was not likely to score

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-analogy-1691878

[trousers]

The under 23s have also conceded 3 vs Man City today...

[Badger]

I know it's defying convention, but as I've seen nothing of the game, I'll refrain from slagging off the whole team and defining us as relegation fodder.

 

Although from the brief report I read, it sounds as if Vestergaard in particular still has the ability to drop at least one clanger a game. And it sounds like an awful game on a miserable day.

 

Reality check. Serious talking and sorting out needed from Ralph. Blue line. Start again next week.

 

 

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

Would have hoped this might have been sorted over the summer. Not sure how Ralph talking and 'sorting' now will make a difference when - Danso aside - he can only shuffle the same players.

[sadoldgit]

The under 23s have also conceded 3 vs Man City today...

 

They came from 3-1 down to score 3 in the last 8 minutes and win 4-3!

[whelk]

Never heard of analogy I guess? Point was not the bet - rather Ings was not likely to score

 

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-an-analogy-1691878

 

That wasn’t an analogy. It was an idle boast. Let alone that he would get better odds and far more reliable in terms of payout with a bookie.

[Red]

That wasn’t an analogy. It was an idle boast. Let alone that he would get better odds and far more reliable in terms of payout with a bookie.

 

If you have mind reading skills, you are truly blessed and wasted on here - predict, win and be happy for once in your life

[Badger]

Few observations from yesterday:

 

Good day out, as often though spoiled by the match, 63 minutes onwards.

 

Hoped we might have cleared the sh!t out over the summer instead of which it looked as if we'd merely raked it over to be left with the same festering steaming pile.

 

Vestergaard comes across in the media and interviews as a decent bloke and I want him to come good, but in reality he's had regular chances and is a frequent liability. Stephens - how is he still with us ? - once again did his Bambi on ice routine. I've lost count of how often he or Hoedt are sprawling on their arse as an opponent has a run at goal.

 

Up front Adams will have learnt that he's not going to be allowed the time and extra yard he had at his disposal in the Championship. As for Ings, Reed really did have his pants pulled down on that deal.

 

We have to hope Ralph can get something out of this bunch,. There's always the January window.. although we'll probably still be paying ridiculous wages to players we can't give away.

 

Atmosphere - good in the concourse but that seemed to vanish in the stands, although nothing to get excited about 63 minutes onwards..

[whelk]

If you have mind reading skills, you are truly blessed and wasted on here - predict, win and be happy for once in your life

 

Struggling to know what you are on about sunshine

[OttawaSaint]

Jesus Christ! Can we discuss the football? Every ****ing thread is full of pointless squabbles and ****-measuring contests.

 

Forum’s becoming unreadable.

[Topcat]

Would have hoped this might have been sorted over the summer. Not sure how Ralph talking and 'sorting' now will make a difference when - Danso aside - he can only shuffle the same players.

Sadly true.

[trousers]

Jesus Christ! Can we discuss the football? Every ****ing thread is full of pointless squabbles and ****-measuring contests.

 

Forum’s becoming unreadable.

 

And not to mention the people moaning about people moaning FFS!

[Topcat]

There is a lot of blame going on against several players, some of it justified, but in the end the real issue so often is that our midfield (including our wing backs or whatever they are called) are not closing down enough and protecting the back line. Yes our CBs and keeper are making a hash of things at times but we invite the opposition on so often. Second goal yesterday case in point, no one in the middle got anywhere near their players. Happens too often, JWP, Hojbjerg, Valery, Bertrand all hugely guilty.

A good point and the sight of Bertrand jogging along watching the opposition score was the usual state of our defence.

[Norm]

Jesus Christ! Can we discuss the football? Every ****ing thread is full of pointless squabbles and ****-measuring contests.

 

Forum’s becoming unreadable.

 

The main reason I rarely visit now.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Ralph has completely ****ed up. The defence should have been the priority in the close season. A complete re-build was needed. Probably 4 out and 3 in. Ralph seems to be obsessed with us not creating enough chances and has completely missed the fact that it doesn't matter how many you score if you're leaking goals at the other end.

The selection was completely wrong for an away trip to Burnley. You need grafters like of Yoshida, PEH and Long. Even Soares would have been a better choice that Valery, defensively for this game.

We have 2 international CB's in the squad yet we play Jack ****in' Stephens. Come on. A schoolboy could have picked a better team.

I was optimistic about this season but the opening result has just quashed all of that.

I look at our run in last season where we should have had 18-20 points and finished above the likes of Newcastle. Our form for the last 10 was shocking and we look no different at the start of this season. Face facts, we are ****ing ****!

[Badger]

Ralph has completely ****ed up. The defence should have been the priority in the close season. A complete re-build was needed. Probably 4 out and 3 in. Ralph seems to be obsessed with us not creating enough chances and has completely missed the fact that it doesn't matter how many you score if you're leaking goals at the other end.

The selection was completely wrong for an away trip to Burnley. You need grafters like of Yoshida, PEH and Long. Even Soares would have been a better choice that Valery, defensively for this game.

We have 2 international CB's in the squad yet we play Jack ****in' Stephens. Come on. A schoolboy could have picked a better team.

I was optimistic about this season but the opening result has just quashed all of that.

I look at our run in last season where we should have had 18-20 points and finished above the likes of Newcastle. Our form for the last 10 was shocking and we look no different at the start of this season. Face facts, we are ****ing ****!

 

We did need someone more capable of putting the ball in the net without doubt, so the signing of a striker was a sensible move, just hope Adams lives up to billing.

 

However it was equally obvious the defence needed sorting, and ideally a full clear out. Never going to happen withour financial costraints, but a CB should have been ahead of Djenepo in the prioties. Looking at Brighton on MOTD the last night, noy only have they retained their main CB, Dunk, they've got a £20m CB on the bench.

 

Not sure I'd blame Ralph for the squad, he was probably also expecting a greater change of playing staff, but again recruitment has been inadequate. Problem is historic due to Reed, and unfortunately Gao doesn't look like offering any remedy.

[kermitsaint]

So we have gone from being an average side with a decent manager to being a crap side with a crap manager after the first game of the season? No we haven’t. We are still an average side who put in a poor display for the last third of the game with a decent manager. For all of the reasons that we understand, we are still stuck with some players that need to be moved on. It clearly isn’t an easy job to ship them out and get the right replacements in and as has been said, it will take 2 to 3 windows to sort the mess out. 2 of the new signings did not play yesterday. Even for this forum, throwing the towel in after just 1 game takes drama queenary to a new level.

I don't recall mentioning anything about giving up. So unlike you to completely make things up..

This pattern of play has existed for a while, even after a full preseason nothing has changed. I see nothing which suggests Ralph is an amazing manager.

I will continue to watch every week but as our team continues to lack heart and fight I too lose my enthusiasm to watch.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[sadoldgit]

I don't recall mentioning anything about giving up. So unlike you to completely make things up..

This pattern of play has existed for a while, even after a full preseason nothing has changed. I see nothing which suggests Ralph is an amazing manager.

I will continue to watch every week but as our team continues to lack heart and fight I too lose my enthusiasm to watch.

 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

You said we are a poor side with a manager who flatters to deceive. You don’t sound like someone is remotely optimistic about the club to me. It is easy to support a team who is flying but perhaps teams who are struggling to find some form could do with a bit more support? They don’t play badly on purpose.

[tajjuk]

Games are turned on moments, we were the better side without doing anything massively and then one hoof, in conditions that suit it and one f*ck up, the team unravelled from there really. Had we stuck one away earlier its a different game and we might have been able to control it better.

 

People say conditions was the same for both teams, but then only one team was trying to really play football and conditions massively suit Burnleys horrible style. (honestly I'd rather see use go down than play like them and play absolutely deplorable c*nts like Barnes, who is not a good player)

 

Crap happens, just unfortunate that August brought a storm you'd expect in November, and you'd hope the team would have reacted a bit better but there you go, the two in quick succession killed us off sadly .

 

I don't get the panic though, early season form means very little, look at Palace they didn't win in 7 last year and didn't score a goal but they finished comfortably clear. I'm sure people will be fapping over Brighton but their squad is not very good, they started with the same team they had last year and only had 3 shots on target but scored 3. We'll see where they are after a proper amount of games.

 

Panic when we are in December not after the first game which was never a 3-0 anyway and at a place we never do well, in conditions that massively favoured those hoof ball merchants.

[dsr-burnley]

If conditions massively favoured hoofball merchants, then perhaps Southampton would have won. Only one team this weekend played more long balls than Burnley, and their name begins with S, and they aren't Sheffield United. Burnley 83, Southampton 98. Check the stats.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls

[woodsaint]

Ralph has completely ****ed up. The defence should have been the priority in the close season. A complete re-build was needed. Probably 4 out and 3 in. Ralph seems to be obsessed with us not creating enough chances and has completely missed the fact that it doesn't matter how many you score if you're leaking goals at the other end.

The selection was completely wrong for an away trip to Burnley. You need grafters like of Yoshida, PEH and Long. Even Soares would have been a better choice that Valery, defensively for this game.

We have 2 international CB's in the squad yet we play Jack ****in' Stephens. Come on. A schoolboy could have picked a better team.

I was optimistic about this season but the opening result has just quashed all of that.

I look at our run in last season where we should have had 18-20 points and finished above the likes of Newcastle. Our form for the last 10 was shocking and we look no different at the start of this season. Face facts, we are ****ing ****!

 

Krueger? Because you cant surely be blaming Hasenhuttl for the transfer business over the summer. How do you know we didnt look at a number of defenders but the clubs hands were tied due to the inability to shift players surplus to requirements?

[Useful Idiot]

If conditions massively favoured hoofball merchants, then perhaps Southampton would have won. Only one team this weekend played more long balls than Burnley, and their name begins with S, and they aren't Sheffield United. Burnley 83, Southampton 98. Check the stats.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls

 

Saints don't have a target man to play effective hoofball you twelve-fingered, three-eyed inbred. Those stats shows what happens when you have a load of panicking idiots playing for your team when they run out of ideas (see England a few years back), not that the game plan is hoof it to the big man and look for knock downs unlike the way Dyche continuously approaches every game. You really must be incredibly simple.

[gordonToo]

From the comments section of the Guardian

 

"Ah, but do they fancy a wet Saturday afternoon at Turf Moor ? In Southampton's case, clearly not ! Oh, and to the Saints fan who mused on their forum yesterday, " Will it be on ? I can't imagine Turf Moor has a very sophisticated drainage system ", we've had a sand based Desso-Grassmaster pitch for years !! In other news, we also have Colour TV, paved roads, electricity, and as at 4.53pm, 3 points !!"

[trousers]

If conditions massively favoured hoofball merchants, then perhaps Southampton would have won. Only one team this weekend played more long balls than Burnley, and their name begins with S, and they aren't Sheffield United. Burnley 83, Southampton 98. Check the stats.

 

https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/clubs/total_long_balls

Any chance of putting those headline 'Long Ball' stats into context? Otherwise people might think that you're conflating 'hoof ball' (i.e. default 'hit and hope' tactics) and 'long ball' (e.g. long range cross-field passes as part of measured build-up play)...

 

For example: https://www.90min.com/posts/6229999-surprising-statistics-reveal-chelsea-and-manchester-city-as-best-long-ball-premier-league-sides

Edited 12 August, 2019 by trousers

[redkeith]

Up until the winfd assisted hoof, we were the better side, as shown in the ex-g stats.

 

However three at the vack should mean that there is a spare man therer to mop up if a defender gets decieved by the bounce. Having 3 v 2 should also stop someone being unmarked from a long cross. Clear systems failures.

 

It is a shame that Adams could get more on that ist minute chance, although he did everything right, trying to use the outside of his boot to put it back across the goal, maybe his left instep would have been better, but it was at full stretch. Shane long would have wellied it with his right instep and then look stunned when it went 2 metres wide of the far post!

[dsr-burnley]

Any chance of putting those headline 'Long Ball' stats into context? Otherwise people might think that you're conflating 'hoof ball' (i.e. default 'hit and hope' tactics) and 'long ball' (e.g. long range cross-field passes as part of measured build-up play)...

 

For example: https://www.90min.com/posts/6229999-surprising-statistics-reveal-chelsea-and-manchester-city-as-best-long-ball-premier-league-sides

 

There's no doubt that more of Burnley's long balls are "safety first" defending. Your manager alluded to that in one of the post-match interviews when he said that your tactic of winning the ball early doesn't work against Burnley, essentially because our defender don't take chances - they get rid, rather than risk losing the ball.

 

Sean Dyche has consistently been out of sync with other managers in that he very much emphasises two cardinal virtues - keeping the ball out at one end, and scoring at the other. The rest is detail and no more than a means to an end. If he believes his players aren't that good at pretty and dangerous passing at the back, he suggests they don't do it. It's very efficient, and as can often be seen (SAturday in a gale being a case in point), "pretty" football is bad to watch as well if it isn't done well.