The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 minute ago, trousers said:

Yeah, but thickos will always be thickos, innit?

It's certainly a more convenient mantra to trot out rather than understand the root cause and do something about it.

[Sheaf Saint]

3 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Yet, that's the 'excuse' for Labour not winning the GE, when in reality - as LD has pointed out - there wasn't any credible opposition.

Labour's inability to recognise that they had an extremely unpopular leader was complicit in giving Johnson a [stonking!] majority government, so it's not a case of 'people trusting' what he says and therefore being 'a bit simple', but more to do with there is absolutely fuck all anyone can do about it because of Labour's incompetence to provide any sort of challenge in the last GE.

So you agree with my point that it all comes down to personalities rather than policies then. Good stuff.

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

So you agree with my point that it all comes down to personalities rather than policies then. Good stuff.

Not at all.

Corbyn had the personality of a lettuce wilting in the sun but he also had policies that were bat shit crazy!

Ironically, Corbyn is probably the only party leader in the last 30 years that has had any political gumption about him and truly believed in his policies, rather than pandering to the populist vote.  In that respect he has probably been the most 'honest' party leader in our lifetimes.  Doesn't mean he was right, far from it, but if you could combine someone with his convictions to his policies with policies that would actually work, then you would have a hands down winner.

[trousers]

Just now, Sheaf Saint said:

So you agree with my point that it all comes down to personalities rather than policies then. Good stuff.

Even if Labour's leader was the most charismatic person in the world, there would still be a significant number of thickos who vote for the evil Tories though. That's the trouble with this democracy malarkey.

[badgerx16]

The FPTP system favours the Conservatives in England, this is simply a matter of demographics. Without Scotland and Wales Labour will always find it difficult to sway enough votes from a naturally small 'c' conservative electorate. One principal reason is that whilst both major parties are in themselves coalitions, Labour has to contest the left-centre ground with the LibDems, and that splits the vote whereas the right-centre, where a significant proportion of voters sit, is generally uncontested.

Edited 15 May, 2022 by badgerx16

[moonraker]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve never particularly been a fan, posted as much when he was first appointed. But as a senior Labour politician said in relation to Bercow (I think it was Margaret Beckett )” Brexit trumps bad behaviour “. He was the only option to stop Brexit being stolen from the people, he was a vehicle to get it done. 
 

My point was, how bad are the opposition if they keep losing to him? It reminds me of a heavy Liverpool defeat when Shanks bollocked them all, with the unplayed sub quietly thinking “I knew he should of picked me”. Before he leaves the room Shanks turns to him and says “and as for you, how shit must you be, you can’t even get in this fucking  side”.  
 

Perhaps if Labour had better policies, and were more in tune with the ENGLISH voters, they wouldn’t have to vote for him. 

Stolen from the people, should read stolen from some people, certainly not the majority of UK of GB and NI voters.  What was stolen during the Brexit era was a semblance of truth and honour.  A right wing coup based on lies and harnessing the unsubstantiated but understandable fears of people long ignored by both major parties when in government, but particularly the Tory policies of austerity and low tax, to court their wealthy and foreign sponsors.

[whelk]

Good custodians of the public purse

 

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

These cunts are still in 1950s. Computers won’t catch on

 

You can bet his secretary and numerous spads, that actually do the work, have computers on their desks.

[badgerx16]

29 minutes ago, whelk said:

Good custodians of the public purse

 

"And a separate leaked document indicates that Ms Truss is pushing back against demands from No 10 for deep cuts in the Civil Service, with up to 91,000 positions under threat. 

The memo states that the Foreign Office does not believe it 'can deliver the headcount reductions of 900 presently proposed' and calls for a 'net increase of 1,000 after using a Voluntary Exit Scheme to replace people whose skills we no longer need'."

[badgerx16]

2 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You can bet his secretary and numerous spads, that actually do the work, have computers on their desks.

He lives in the 19th century. He has a Babbage engine in a backroom.

[Fan The Flames]

4 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve never particularly been a fan, posted as much when he was first appointed. But as a senior Labour politician said in relation to Bercow (I think it was Margaret Beckett )” Brexit trumps bad behaviour “. He was the only option to stop Brexit being stolen from the people, he was a vehicle to get it done. 
 

My point was, how bad are the opposition if they keep losing to him? It reminds me of a heavy Liverpool defeat when Shanks bollocked them all, with the unplayed sub quietly thinking “I knew he should of picked me”. Before he leaves the room Shanks turns to him and says “and as for you, how shit must you be, you can’t even get in this fucking  side”.  
 

Perhaps if Labour had better policies, and were more in tune with the ENGLISH voters, they wouldn’t have to vote for him. 

In the great tradition of the tory cabinet muppets sent out to protect 'big dog' you have failed to answer the question twice, instead just delivered some unrelated bollocks about Corbyn.

[Weston Super Saint]

33 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

He lives in the 19th century. He has a Babbage engine in a backroom.

His house is from the 1600's - and probably hasn't been upgraded too much since it was built.  Probably only just got electricity in Harptree!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gournay_Court

[whelk]

https://news.sky.com/story/margaret-thatcher-statue-egged-and-booed-after-being-erected-in-grantham-12613608
 

anyone know a poster who will be knocking one out?

[buctootim]

Isn't that how Michael Hutchence died? Never knew she had it in her. 

 

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, aintforever said:

I don't get this weird obsession with people working from home, I was probably more productive when I worked from home. According to my IT support guy, who services a load of companies in London, hybrid working is just normal now for much of the private sector. Makes sense to me, commuting is just a miserable, soul-destroying waste of time, money and energy.

 

We had people round last night and she works for Kent County Council and has been working from home since lockdown. K.C.C. Want to keep it going so they can reduce their office space requirements. She says her work is closely monitored and targets set. Guess what. Their productivity has gone up. Working from home doesn’t suit every job or everybody, but the claim that people want to keep on doing because they are “swinging the lead” is crap. There will always be people who don’t pull their weight, in or out of the office, but if managed properly there is no reason why productivity should suffer. It’s the same with the attitude with people going off work with stress. Those with gammon tinted spectacles will always assume it is a con whereas the debilitating effect of mental illness is a huge problem and you only have to look at the suicide rates to see where it can end up if not handled correctly.

Wouldn’t it make a pleasant change to share the planet with people whose first instinct isn’t  to assume that everyone else is a cheat or freeloader.

 

[whelk]

32 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

We had people round last night and she works for Kent County Council and has been working from home since lockdown. K.C.C. Want to keep it going so they can reduce their office space requirements. She says her work is closely monitored and targets set. Guess what. Their productivity has gone up. Working from home doesn’t suit every job or everybody, but the claim that people want to keep on doing because they are “swinging the lead” is crap. There will always be people who don’t pull their weight, in or out of the office, but if managed properly there is no reason why productivity should suffer. It’s the same with the attitude with people going off work with stress. Those with gammon tinted spectacles will always assume it is a con whereas the debilitating effect of mental illness is a huge problem and you only have to look at the suicide rates to see where it can end up if not handled correctly.

Wouldn’t it make a pleasant change to share the planet with people whose first instinct isn’t  to assume that everyone else is a cheat or freeloader.

 

You know it’s their scapegoat for the shit services they have had 12 years to sort. They won’t own anything and just feed the gammon.

WFH is fine but most who do it have their networks pre-covid. Can’t beat a bit of socialising and camaraderie to help team morale.

Edited 15 May, 2022 by whelk

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 hours ago, moonraker said:

 A right wing coup based on lies and harnessing the unsubstantiated but understandable fears of people long ignored by both major parties 

Agreed 

That right wing fascist Tony Benn spent years opposing the EU, together with those fucking Thatcherites Peter Shaw, Barbara Castle and Bob Crow. 

For someone on the progressive, intelligent side of the debate, I’m surprised you’ve fallen for the remain pony that Brexit is somehow a ring wing phenomenon. The left were far more vehement in their opposition than the majority of the Tory party. It was only when Jacques Delors blew smoke up their arse and gave them what the electorate wouldn’t, that they became cheerleaders. It nearly broke the Labour Party, just as much as it nearly broke the Tories. Even the Sweaty nationalist party were anti EEC, and more sweaties voted to leave than voted for Krankie.
 

It’s a complex issue that has divided into many different forms over the years, but  I guess it’s just easier and simple to call it a Right Wing coup. It also gives you comfort, the feeling that you lost trying to  protect us from right wing loons, as opposed to what really happened, you profoundly misunderstood the country you live in. 

Edited 15 May, 2022 by Lord Duckhunter

[Tamesaint]

5 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

He lives in the 19th century. He has a Babbage engine in a backroom.

If the anti Tory vote could get its act together, his (North East Somerset)  is the sort of constituency that the Tories could lose. At the last election the "Progressive" vote was split between Labour, Lib Dem and Green. JRM received just over 50% of the vote as there was no alternative to him for right wing voters. 

A few more widely publicised idiotic statements from JRM will lose him some votes. A few more  educated young professionals  moving  into the area would  increase the progressive vote in his constituency. 

His seat however is really only vulnerable if Labour / Lib Dem / Greens can decide which one of them gets a free run at the next election. I am not sure if they will come to such an arrangement but wouldn't it be nice to see the "member for the 19th century" out of Parliament and left to spend his time counting his money. 

 

[moonraker]

11 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Agreed 

That right wing fascist Tony Benn spent years opposing the EU, together with those fucking Thatcherites Peter Shaw, Barbara Castle and Bob Crow. 

For someone on the progressive, intelligent side of the debate, I’m surprised you’ve fallen for the remain pony that Brexit is somehow a ring wing phenomenon. The left were far more vehement in their opposition than the majority of the Tory party. It was only when Jacques Delors blew smoke up their arse and gave them what the electorate wouldn’t, that they became cheerleaders. It nearly broke the Labour Party, just as much as it nearly broke the Tories. Even the Sweaty nationalist party were anti EEC, and more sweaties voted to leave than voted for Krankie.
 

It’s a complex issue that has divided into many different forms over the years, but  I guess it’s just easier and simple to call it a Right Wing coup. It also gives you comfort, the feeling that you lost trying to  protect us from right wing loons, as opposed to what really happened, you profoundly misunderstood the country you live in. 

You may like to frame it as far more nuanced than it was, there is no doubt that the modern version of anti EU rhetoric is from the right.  Yes there were historically a few key figures from the left who opposed the EU but this in no way compares to the current self serving cabal from the right who have manipulated the debate.  Progress means seeing things in a different light and accepting that previous norms are no longer relevant or valid.  Tony Benns son a case in point, a very different perspective to his father.  JRM may be an easy target but he shines a very bright light on the backward thinking of one side of the contemporary debate.  I do not view Brexit or the EU from a party political perspective but, most Tory MPs in 2016, supported remain,  from the prospective  of what is best for my/our country, and nothing, absolutely nothing about Brexit makes the UK of GB and NI better.  It is about today not the 1970s.  You are happy to ID Labour politicians who were eurosceptic but fail to note your hero Thatcher was pro EU.

Edited 16 May, 2022 by moonraker

[moonraker]

4 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

If the anti Tory vote could get its act together, his (North East Somerset)  is the sort of constituency that the Tories could lose. At the last election the "Progressive" vote was split between Labour, Lib Dem and Green. JRM received just over 50% of the vote as there was no alternative to him for right wing voters. 

A few more widely publicised idiotic statements from JRM will lose him some votes. A few more  educated young professionals  moving  into the area would  increase the progressive vote in his constituency. 

His seat however is really only vulnerable if Labour / Lib Dem / Greens can decide which one of them gets a free run at the next election. I am not sure if they will come to such an arrangement but wouldn't it be nice to see the "member for the 19th century" out of Parliament and left to spend his time counting his money. 

 

I live in the adjacent constituency to JRM, Bath, and you are correct, the LDs and Greens need to leave the field to Labour.  Bath is a strong LD seat but across the border Labour have more traction, historically JRMs seat is a mining area, coal and stone but is fast becoming a satellite residential area for young professionals working in Bristol and Bath.  The local LD and Labour party’s are having some very interesting informal conversations.  The Greens are in a difficult place they want to make an impression but cannot win.  The national press focus on Englands northern red wall, but the West Country can really hurt the Tories mainly through the LDs the upcoming by-election will be very interesting.

[Tamesaint]

6 hours ago, moonraker said:

I live in the adjacent constituency to JRM, Bath, and you are correct, the LDs and Greens need to leave the field to Labour.  Bath is a strong LD seat but across the border Labour have more traction, historically JRMs seat is a mining area, coal and stone but is fast becoming a satellite residential area for young professionals working in Bristol and Bath.  The local LD and Labour party’s are having some very interesting informal conversations.  The Greens are in a difficult place they want to make an impression but cannot win.  The national press focus on Englands northern red wall, but the West Country can really hurt the Tories mainly through the LDs the upcoming by-election will be very interesting.

That is interesting. My niece and her boyfriend have just moved into the constituency from central Bristol. A teacher and a psychologist there is no way that they would vote for JRM. A lot of supposedly safe Tory seats like this one would be vulnerable with a "progressive pact"  if they are typical of the demographic changes taking place. 

[moonraker]

59 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

That is interesting. My niece and her boyfriend have just moved into the constituency from central Bristol. A teacher and a psychologist there is no way that they would vote for JRM. A lot of supposedly safe Tory seats like this one would be vulnerable with a "progressive pact"  if they are typical of the demographic changes taking place. 

There are lots of intriguing constituencies in the South West.  With very few large/big industrial cities or towns Labour have historically found it difficult to establish any kind of power base, the exceptions being Bristol and Plymouth.  Rural communities are traditionally more small c conservative and these dominate the SW.  There is also a much smaller “immigrant” population than in many other areas, however a number of areas have many “incomers” from other parts of the U.K. which can cause tensions but add to the political mix.  Pre the 1990s many of these were better off retirees who also were small c conservative if not outright Tories.  More recently the incomers seem to be younger and well educated seeking a better lifestyle away from big cities. The traditional alternative to the Tories has been the Liberals, again traditionally this aligns well with the non-conformist and independent character of the SW.  It all makes for an intriguing contest very different from the picture painted of Tory v Labour elsewhere, primarily in England.  The SW has shaped much of Englands history, Alfred the Great,  Elizabethan seafarers and the birth of Empire, The Glorious Revolution, the first use of steam power, and most notably cider, to name a few, hopefully it can deliver another significant advance by dealing the Tories a fatal blow in the next GE.

Edited 16 May, 2022 by moonraker

[spyinthesky]

Problem is if 'The Moggster' gets mugged off as an MP he will immediately receive an honour to enable him to have regular naps in The Lords whilst continuing to make a decent living elsewhere.

[Warriorsaint]

16 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Agreed 

That right wing fascist Tony Benn spent years opposing the EU, together with those fucking Thatcherites Peter Shaw, Barbara Castle and Bob Crow. 

For someone on the progressive, intelligent side of the debate, I’m surprised you’ve fallen for the remain pony that Brexit is somehow a ring wing phenomenon. The left were far more vehement in their opposition than the majority of the Tory party. It was only when Jacques Delors blew smoke up their arse and gave them what the electorate wouldn’t, that they became cheerleaders. It nearly broke the Labour Party, just as much as it nearly broke the Tories. Even the Sweaty nationalist party were anti EEC, and more sweaties voted to leave than voted for Krankie.
 

It’s a complex issue that has divided into many different forms over the years, but  I guess it’s just easier and simple to call it a Right Wing coup. It also gives you comfort, the feeling that you lost trying to  protect us from right wing loons, as opposed to what really happened, you profoundly misunderstood the country you live in. 

You are a right wing loon

[whelk]

What have all the moaning private sector posters got to say about the huge disparity in pay rises between the sectors? Surprised more don’t jump ship and fuck the services even more. Then we will have an even greater country and more people can buy bigger tvs. 
 

Edited 17 May, 2022 by whelk

[Fan The Flames]

You can't blame thicko voters for being gullible anymore, it's all down to clever voters. A study has found that degree educated voters are less likely to swing vote and more likely to seek out news that confirms their political views.

[Fan The Flames]

On 15/05/2022 at 19:08, Lord Duckhunter said:

Agreed 

That right wing fascist Tony Benn spent years opposing the EU, together with those fucking Thatcherites Peter Shaw, Barbara Castle and Bob Crow. 

For someone on the progressive, intelligent side of the debate, I’m surprised you’ve fallen for the remain pony that Brexit is somehow a ring wing phenomenon. The left were far more vehement in their opposition than the majority of the Tory party. It was only when Jacques Delors blew smoke up their arse and gave them what the electorate wouldn’t, that they became cheerleaders. It nearly broke the Labour Party, just as much as it nearly broke the Tories. Even the Sweaty nationalist party were anti EEC, and more sweaties voted to leave than voted for Krankie.
 

It’s a complex issue that has divided into many different forms over the years, but  I guess it’s just easier and simple to call it a Right Wing coup. It also gives you comfort, the feeling that you lost trying to  protect us from right wing loons, as opposed to what really happened, you profoundly misunderstood the country you live in. 

52 48 is not profound under any measure. This form of hard Brexit is right wing, hope that helps.

[Fan The Flames]

On 15/05/2022 at 17:42, sadoldgit said:

We had people round last night and she works for Kent County Council and has been working from home since lockdown. K.C.C. Want to keep it going so they can reduce their office space requirements. She says her work is closely monitored and targets set. Guess what. Their productivity has gone up. Working from home doesn’t suit every job or everybody, but the claim that people want to keep on doing because they are “swinging the lead” is crap. There will always be people who don’t pull their weight, in or out of the office, but if managed properly there is no reason why productivity should suffer. It’s the same with the attitude with people going off work with stress. Those with gammon tinted spectacles will always assume it is a con whereas the debilitating effect of mental illness is a huge problem and you only have to look at the suicide rates to see where it can end up if not handled correctly.

Wouldn’t it make a pleasant change to share the planet with people whose first instinct isn’t  to assume that everyone else is a cheat or freeloader.

It's not where you work, it's how you are managed.

My wife works for the Met and now wfh 50% and moans that it's the same people taking the piss and the same people pulling their weight that did when they were 100% in.

They have moved more teams in and closed an office. 

[Turkish]

On 15/05/2022 at 17:42, sadoldgit said:

We had people round last night and she works for Kent County Council and has been working from home since lockdown. K.C.C. Want to keep it going so they can reduce their office space requirements. She says her work is closely monitored and targets set. Guess what. Their productivity has gone up. Working from home doesn’t suit every job or everybody, but the claim that people want to keep on doing because they are “swinging the lead” is crap. There will always be people who don’t pull their weight, in or out of the office, but if managed properly there is no reason why productivity should suffer. It’s the same with the attitude with people going off work with stress. Those with gammon tinted spectacles will always assume it is a con whereas the debilitating effect of mental illness is a huge problem and you only have to look at the suicide rates to see where it can end up if not handled correctly.

Wouldn’t it make a pleasant change to share the planet with people whose first instinct isn’t  to assume that everyone else is a cheat or freeloader.

 

Or maybe it's more people who have seen it first hand. There was a girl in my old company who was forever off with stress (despite doing fuck all) she was heard regularly loudly on the phone telling other colleagues if they were having a bad day to go to the doctor and tell them they are stressed, they'll get signed off and there as nothing the company could do about it. Stress isn't a debilitating mental illness, stress is part of life, something all of us have to deal with. unfortunately it's licence of a lot of people to roll themselves up into a little ball and hide away from the world rather than deal with it.

An electrican was at my house yesterday asking me what i did for work, when i told him his first response was "bet that's stressful" my reply was no it isn't because i dont let it be. The problem is so many people these cant cope with even the most basic disapointment or pressure, we have a sales person in our company that refuses to do presentations because it makes them anxious! 1, that's not anxiety, that's nerves everyone gets until you've done the same pitch 100 times and 2, You're in the wrong job then! Because they've worked there for years nothing you can do about it. 

Like all these things there are extreme cases where genuine high level stress can cause issues but for the vast majority of people who've just had a bit of a bad run of things plenty of ways to manage it and the biggest way of all is to deal with it head on. If your doctor is immediately signing you off with stress and not asking you how much exercise you get, how much time you inside locked away from the world not talking to anyone, what your diet is like, how much alochol you're drinking you dont have a dcotor you have someone else signing off your holiday.

Edited 17 May, 2022 by Turkish

[Whitey Grandad]

47 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Or maybe it's more people who have seen it first hand. There was a girl in my old company who was forever off with stress (despite doing fuck all) she was heard regularly loudly on the phone telling other colleagues if they were having a bad day to go to the doctor and tell them they are stressed, they'll get signed off and there as nothing the company could do about it. Stress isn't a debilitating mental illness, stress is part of life, something all of us have to deal with. unfortunately it's licence of a lot of people to roll themselves up into a little ball and hide away from the world rather than deal with it.

An electrican was at my house yesterday asking me what i did for work, when i told him his first response was "bet that's stressful" my reply was no it isn't because i dont let it be. The problem is so many people these cant cope with even the most basic disapointment or pressure, we have a sales person in our company that refuses to do presentations because it makes them anxious! 1, that's not anxiety, that's nerves everyone gets until you've done the same pitch 100 times and 2, You're in the wrong job then! Because they've worked there for years nothing you can do about it. 

Like all these things there are extreme cases where genuine high level stress can cause issues but for the vast majority of people who've just had a bit of a bad run of things plenty of ways to manage it and the biggest way of all is to deal with it head on. If your doctor is immediately signing you off with stress and not asking you how much exercise you get, how much time you inside locked away from the world not talking to anyone, what your diet is like, how much alochol you're drinking you dont have a dcotor you have someone else signing off your holiday.

A salesperson who refuses to do presentations? Whatever next, a surgeon who can’t stand the sight of blood?

[Turkish]

4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

A salesperson who refuses to do presentations? Whatever next, a surgeon who can’t stand the sight of blood?

Baffles me mate, but it's allowed to carry on because it's claimed it's a mental issue and been there for years and been promoted into the role from back office. They have their techincal rescource do all presentations instead. It's not a mental issue it's just nerves, which i do get, but the only way to overcome them is to get on and do it.

[buctootim]

On 15/05/2022 at 19:08, Lord Duckhunter said:

Agreed 

That right wing fascist Tony Benn spent years opposing the EU, together with those fucking Thatcherites Peter Shaw, Barbara Castle and Bob Crow. 

For someone on the progressive, intelligent side of the debate, I’m surprised you’ve fallen for the remain pony that Brexit is somehow a ring wing phenomenon. The left were far more vehement in their opposition than the majority of the Tory party. It was only when Jacques Delors blew smoke up their arse and gave them what the electorate wouldn’t, that they became cheerleaders. It nearly broke the Labour Party, just as much as it nearly broke the Tories. Even the Sweaty nationalist party were anti EEC, and more sweaties voted to leave than voted for Krankie.
 

It’s a complex issue that has divided into many different forms over the years, but  I guess it’s just easier and simple to call it a Right Wing coup. It also gives you comfort, the feeling that you lost trying to  protect us from right wing loons, as opposed to what really happened, you profoundly misunderstood the country you live in. 

Lots of valid arguments can be made for leaving the EU both left and and right wing. For example restricting flow of labour is arguably better for British workers than companies. But this Brexit is led by not very bright and dishonest right wing idealogues. The ill thought out strategy and execution of it is as sound as Russia's invasion of Ukraine - an all round clusterfuck which is damaging on almost every level. 

Edited 17 May, 2022 by buctootim

[Fan The Flames]

2 hours ago, Turkish said:

Or maybe it's more people who have seen it first hand. There was a girl in my old company who was forever off with stress (despite doing fuck all) she was heard regularly loudly on the phone telling other colleagues if they were having a bad day to go to the doctor and tell them they are stressed, they'll get signed off and there as nothing the company could do about it. Stress isn't a debilitating mental illness, stress is part of life, something all of us have to deal with. unfortunately it's licence of a lot of people to roll themselves up into a little ball and hide away from the world rather than deal with it.

An electrican was at my house yesterday asking me what i did for work, when i told him his first response was "bet that's stressful" my reply was no it isn't because i dont let it be. The problem is so many people these cant cope with even the most basic disapointment or pressure, we have a sales person in our company that refuses to do presentations because it makes them anxious! 1, that's not anxiety, that's nerves everyone gets until you've done the same pitch 100 times and 2, You're in the wrong job then! Because they've worked there for years nothing you can do about it. 

Like all these things there are extreme cases where genuine high level stress can cause issues but for the vast majority of people who've just had a bit of a bad run of things plenty of ways to manage it and the biggest way of all is to deal with it head on. If your doctor is immediately signing you off with stress and not asking you how much exercise you get, how much time you inside locked away from the world not talking to anyone, what your diet is like, how much alochol you're drinking you dont have a dcotor you have someone else signing off your holiday.

You can do something about it, you can performance manage someone out of the business. But people don't want to put in the hard work or can't hack the fall out of PM and so let this stuff slide. My mate ran a business and has performance managed 8 people out.

Or you could just sack them and pay the fine. I worked for a surveying practice, just before I started they were having trouble with the admin team, they had fallen out with each other. After a long time trying to resolve it, the boss had enough and sacked all three of them and paid them off.

[Fan The Flames]

So who is going to support a four day week (same wages for a five day week), it's coming. 

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You can do something about it, you can performance manage someone out of the business. But people don't want to put in the hard work or can't hack the fall out of PM and so let this stuff slide. My mate ran a business and has performance managed 8 people out.

Or you could just sack them and pay the fine. I worked for a surveying practice, just before I started they were having trouble with the admin team, they had fallen out with each other. After a long time trying to resolve it, the boss had enough and sacked all three of them and paid them off.

Has he considered he might not be the best at recruiting?

[Fan The Flames]

21 minutes ago, whelk said:

Has he considered he might not be the best at recruiting?

Good point, it was over a 15 year period and I don't know how many were his recruits. But recruiting is really difficult, you don't know what someone is going to be really like until they are in a job, people change as well for various reasons. They can be shit in reality and charming in interviews, that's how I've always managed to stay employed.

Edited 17 May, 2022 by Fan The Flames

[buctootim]

14 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Good point, it was over a 15 year period and I don't know how many were his recruits. But recruiting is really difficult, you don't know what someone is going to be really like until they are in a job, people change as well for various reasons. They can be shit in reality and charming in interviews, that's how I've always managed to stay employed.

Ha me too  

I remember fom my psychology degree that there is a negative correlation between job interviews and the best person for the job  - ie recruiters tend to go for the person they like rather than the most skilled. You're better off with psychometric testing and CV than interviews

[Turkish]

53 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You can do something about it, you can performance manage someone out of the business. But people don't want to put in the hard work or can't hack the fall out of PM and so let this stuff slide. My mate ran a business and has performance managed 8 people out.

Or you could just sack them and pay the fine. I worked for a surveying practice, just before I started they were having trouble with the admin team, they had fallen out with each other. After a long time trying to resolve it, the boss had enough and sacked all three of them and paid them off.

yes i know but that can take up to a year often more. Unfortunately we have procedures in place coming from the parent company in the US. They have to go on a performance improvement plan which lasts 6 months and if they achieve the metric then there is a 6 months period before they can be put on another one. So you generally get a spike of good performance/effort before reverting to type once it's over or they play the stress card. Honestly sacking someone in our company for performance is virtually impossible once they've been there two years. That why we end up paying people off and then having to wait 6 months before we can bring a direct replacement in. We've even had accusations of bullying when people have been put on improvement plans which leads to immediate investigation and the person accused of it is suspended from work whilst the investigation is carried out. It seems bonkers but its true. Seen it time after time in my years here. 

Edited 17 May, 2022 by Turkish

[whelk]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Good point, it was over a 15 year period and I don't know how many were his recruits. But recruiting is really difficult, you don't know what someone is going to be really like until they are in a job, people change as well for various reasons. They can be shit in reality and charming in interviews, that's how I've always managed to stay employed.

Yeah not easy - I have managers I trust and managers who are too easily fooled. I think you need to have a healthy amount of cynicism but also spot potential. Bright people pick up things quick. I actually think over the years I have got 80/90% right although significantly less involved now in day to day. Recently read a book on Amazon’s approach to recruitment which was interesting in how seriously they took it and accordingly prioritised - had recruitment gurus (can’t remember their term) who had to sign off on appointments.

Also done fair amount of performance management and often dealing with managers who don’t want to take it on which is infuriating. I equate to parenting tough love - if they are in the wrong job you are doing them a favour as long term won’t be happy even if they are too lazy to look for something they may be better suited too. Also some times the fuckers are delusional in not seeing their shortcomings which we have duty to pick up on. What I find tricky is when ambitious, but ultimately limited staff,  think they deserve promotions they won’t get. Not performance mgt cases but what is their future motivation when they have hit their ceiling? 

Edited 17 May, 2022 by whelk

[Weston Super Saint]

Will it be Boris? 🤞

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61487215

Quote

Tory MP arrested on suspicion of sexual offences, including rape and sexual assault, over seven-year period

This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.

 

[Fan The Flames]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Will it be Boris? 🤞

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61487215

 

I reckon it's Priti Patel. 

[badgerx16]

3 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Will it be Boris? 🤞

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61487215

 

Plenty of political hacks will turn up at Westminster tomorrow just to see who doesn't.

[Winnersaint]

Be funny if it was the Minister for the 18th Century. Can't see it somehow though. Or MF, that would be fucking hilarious.

Edited 17 May, 2022 by Winnersaint

[Weston Super Saint]

10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Plenty of political hacks will turn up at Westminster tomorrow just to see who doesn't.

They'll have to look for one that is decidedly 'disheveled' after a night in a police cell as the man in question (rules out Priti) has been released on bail until mid June.

[badgerx16]

17 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They'll have to look for one that is decidedly 'disheveled' after a night in a police cell as the man in question (rules out Priti) has been released on bail until mid June.

Are you sure ?

[ecuk268]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

They'll have to look for one that is decidedly 'disheveled' after a night in a police cell as the man in question (rules out Priti) has been released on bail until mid June.

Allegedly, Andrew Rosindell MP for Romford. 

[buctootim]

4 hours ago, ecuk268 said:

Allegedly, Andrew Rosindell MP for Romford. 

No idea if that is accurate or not - but I'd never heard of him and had to google. He's been an MP since 2001. How can anybody in such a position make absolutely zero impression in 20 years?   

Edited 18 May, 2022 by buctootim

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, buctootim said:

No idea if thast is accurate or not - but I'd never heard of him and had to google. He's been an MP sisnce 2001. How can anybody in such a position make absolutely zero impression in 20 years?   

Government employee?

[whelk]

Romford Wrong ‘un?

[CB Fry]

3 hours ago, buctootim said:

No idea if that is accurate or not - but I'd never heard of him and had to google. He's been an MP since 2001. How can anybody in such a position make absolutely zero impression in 20 years?   

I recognise the name, I think on the ERG end of the Tories. But yeah, apart from that no idea. He's probably going to be famous soon.