The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[aintforever]

Excuses, excuses. There’s absolutely zero chance Boris will propose an election on a certain date, get HoC approval and then go to the queen and change the date.

 

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Of course he would. People said that same ****** about the idea of him shutting down Parliament to force it through.

[Batman]

Of course he would. People said that same ****** about the idea of him shutting down Parliament to force it through.

 

It could very easily be passed as law that an election is held 15 Oct. he won’t be able to change it unless his opponents agree

 

This is the worst description of a coup in the history of coups

[Lord Duckhunter]

Of course he would. People said that same ****** about the idea of him shutting down Parliament to force it through.

 

When did he do that then?

 

He did exactly the same as every single PM has done, and after the longest parliamentary session since the Civil war. Labour were calling for a Queen’s speech in the summer, you have to prorogue to have one.

 

If he wanted to he could of done what you claimed and prorogued until 1/11. But he didn’t.

 

You lot are unhinged.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

 

This is the worst description of a coup in the history of coups

 

 

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

 

This is the worst description of a coup in the history of coups

 

There’s a complete and utter lack of self awareness around the “rebels” and assorted soap dodgers losing their mind over this. A rebel alliance that is mounting a resistance to maintain the status quo, lining up besides the bankers and big business. And a coup where the dictator is trying to give the people a vote. Bizarre!!!!!

 

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

It could very easily be passed as law that an election is held 15 Oct. he won’t be able to change it unless his opponents agree

 

This is the worst description of a coup in the history of coups

 

No it couldn't, because parliaments been prorogued.

 

If he was trustworthy, this wouldn't be an issue. But he's been proven to be a liar. Unfortunately, that's what happens when you vote in someone who has spent his life lying.

 

I think it's called "The boy who cried wolf".

[Weston Super Saint]

No it couldn't, because parliaments been prorogued.

 

If he was trustworthy, this wouldn't be an issue. But he's been proven to be a liar. Unfortunately, that's what happens when you vote in someone who has spent his life lying.

 

I think it's called "The boy who cried wolf".

 

He's spent most of his working life as a politician - why are you surprised he's a liar? Not exactly uncommon in that profession is it?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

He's spent most of his working life as a politician - why are you surprised he's a liar? Not exactly uncommon in that profession is it?

 

I'm not surprised - why do you think I am?

 

I'm just offering an explanation as to why no-one trusts him.

 

However, even by usual politician standards, he is a liar.

[Shroppie]

We all know politicians lie. What alarms me is that it's now accepted. We are supposed to accept the lies and the weak attempted casual dismissal of evidence that the lies are clearly lies.

 

And gone are the days when a politician exposed as lying shows any contrition, let alone it being regarded as a resigning matter. It's just laughed off with insults.

 

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[Sheaf Saint]

Not odd at all. The Cameron intake damaged the party and selected prole based on box ticking than political beliefs. The upshot is we have MP’s changing parties like they change phone companies or gas/ electric providers. The party has always contained sopping wet pinkos, but people like Wollaston , Allen & Lee haven’t got a Tory bone in their body. They used the party as a vehicle to get to Westminster.

 

The swamp is being drained.

 

 

 

 

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It wasn't that long ago that you were decrying Johnson as a pinko. Now you're his chief cheerleader on here because you think he will purge the party of all other pinkos.

 

All because you think he's the one most likely to deliver on your no-deal Brexit fantasy.

 

Despite the fact that I strongly disagree with you on just about everything politically, I actually used to have some degree of respect for you. But recently you've just gone full Trump, and appear to be lapping up any old boll*cks that the Brexit extremists spout. To the point that you think it's a good thing the Tory party is lurching even further to the right and eliminating its more moderate element. It's quite obviously not going to work out well for you or your beloved party, and it's pitiful really.

[Tamesaint]

He's spent most of his working life as a politician - why are you surprised he's a liar? Not exactly uncommon in that profession is it?

 

Johnson takes lying to a new level. He was a journalist before entering the Commons and was sacked from the Times for making things up. As a journalist with the Telegraph he sailed close to the wind for his "ineffable duplicity" (quote from the owners of the Telegraph). After entering the Commons he was sacked by Tory leader Michael Howard for ... guess what ... lying.

 

I have little trust in many politicians but Boris would win a good medal in any Lying Olympics.

[badgerx16]

When did he do that then?

 

He did exactly the same as every single PM has done, and after the longest parliamentary session since the Civil war. Labour were calling for a Queen’s speech in the summer, you have to prorogue to have one.

 

If he wanted to he could of done what you claimed and prorogued until 1/11. But he didn’t.

 

You lot are unhinged.

 

This is the longest prorogation of Parliament without a General Election since 1930, by more than a week. It is clearly a ploy to impede Parliamentary opposition.

[aintforever]

When did he do that then?

 

He did exactly the same as every single PM has done, and after the longest parliamentary session since the Civil war. Labour were calling for a Queen’s speech in the summer, you have to prorogue to have one.

 

If he wanted to he could of done what you claimed and prorogued until 1/11. But he didn’t.

 

You lot are unhinged.

 

 

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The timings and reasons for his proroging Parliament are obvious. He knows he has **** all chance of getting a half decent deal wether no deal is on the table or not so is trying to shift the blame onto the opposition.

[sadoldgit]

We all know politicians lie. What alarms me is that it's now accepted. We are supposed to accept the lies and the weak attempted casual dismissal of evidence that the lies are clearly lies.

 

And gone are the days when a politician exposed as lying shows any contrition, let alone it being regarded as a resigning matter. It's just laughed off with insults.

 

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They get away with it because the lies support people like Duckie and his far right buddies view. There are a lot of these people about and they are more than willing to park any moral judgement because it suits their agenda. The fact that that they still support Johnson and his cronies despite the fact that they have made it clear that they don’t respect the law says it all. And a certain poster has told us that Socialism is dangerous

[whelk]

It wasn't that long ago that you were decrying Johnson as a pinko. Now you're his chief cheerleader on here because you think he will purge the party of all other pinkos.

 

All because you think he's the one most likely to deliver on your no-deal Brexit fantasy.

 

Despite the fact that I strongly disagree with you on just about everything politically, I actually used to have some degree of respect for you. But recently you've just gone full Trump, and appear to be lapping up any old boll*cks that the Brexit extremists spout. To the point that you think it's a good thing the Tory party is lurching even further to the right and eliminating its more moderate element. It's quite obviously not going to work out well for you or your beloved party, and it's pitiful really.

 

He will no doubt applaud a Saints player diving to con a ref and get a penalty. Whatever it takes and fck the morality.

 

Quite cultish really and in effect told what to think and don’t realise it.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It wasn't that long ago that you were decrying Johnson as a pinko. Now you're his chief cheerleader on here because you think he will purge the party of all other pinkos.

 

All because you think he's the one most likely to deliver on your no-deal Brexit fantasy.

 

Despite the fact that I strongly disagree with you on just about everything politically, I actually used to have some degree of respect for you. But recently you've just gone full Trump, and appear to be lapping up any old boll*cks that the Brexit extremists spout. To the point that you think it's a good thing the Tory party is lurching even further to the right and eliminating its more moderate element. It's quite obviously not going to work out well for you or your beloved party, and it's pitiful really.

 

Johnson is a raving pinko on everything apart from Brexit. That fact is indisputable despite the half wits on here trying to portray him as some sort of right wing dictator. Take a few minutes to look at his policy positions o over the years. He’s a Cameroon pinko. End of. That said, his Brexit policy is sound & he’s purging the party of Lib Dem’s. Therefore he has my temporary support until we ditch him for a proper Tory.

 

There’s absolutely nothing moderate about trying to suppress a democratic vote, so I don’t recognise this description of “moderates”. The people he’s purging are out of touch extremists and we’re better off without them .

 

 

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Edited 9 September, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[Sheaf Saint]

The people he’s purging are out of touch extremists and we’re better off without them.

 

I rest my case m'lud.

 

MPs who are actually showing some backbone and trying to protect the country against the most disastrous form of Brexit being enacted by a bumbling idiot and his team of shady, unaccountable 'advisors' are, in your mind, out of touch extremists who need to be purged for the good of the party.

 

Your choice of language is very telling.

[Batman]

No it couldn't, because parliaments been prorogued.

 

If he was trustworthy, this wouldn't be an issue. But he's been proven to be a liar. Unfortunately, that's what happens when you vote in someone who has spent his life lying.

 

I think it's called "The boy who cried wolf".

 

But MPs voted it down? It could have been passed and made law very quickly

[Tamesaint]

Johnson is a raving pinko on everything apart from Brexit. That fact is indisputable despite the half wits on here trying to portray him as some sort of right wing dictator. Take a few minutes to look at his policy positions o over the years. He’s a Cameroon pinko. End of. That said, his Brexit policy is sound & he’s purging the party of Lib Dem’s. Therefore he has my temporary support until we ditch him for a proper Tory.

 

There’s absolutely nothing moderate about trying to suppress a democratic vote, so I don’t recognise this description of “moderates”. The people he’s purging are out of touch extremists and we’re better off without them .

 

 

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I wonder if the Government could use this post in a campaign against the perils of excessive late night drinking.

[shurlock]

Johnson is a raving pinko on everything apart from Brexit. That fact is indisputable despite the half wits on here trying to portray him as some sort of right wing dictator. Take a few minutes to look at his policy positions o over the years. He’s a Cameroon pinko. End of. That said, his Brexit policy is sound & he’s purging the party of Lib Dem’s. Therefore he has my temporary support until we ditch him for a proper Tory.

 

There’s absolutely nothing moderate about trying to suppress a democratic vote, so I don’t recognise this description of “moderates”. The people he’s purging are out of touch extremists and we’re better off without them .

 

 

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[badgerx16]

But MPs voted it down? It could have been passed and made law very quickly

 

Is it Groundhog Day ?

[aintforever]

But MPs voted it down? It could have been passed and made law very quickly

 

Think you need to read up on how it works.

 

If Parliament gave the go ahead for an early GE then Boris could pick and choose any date he wanted, Parliament wouldn't have a say.

[norwaysaint]

Lord Dickhunter, I've asked a few times, but you seem to avoid answering. Rather than call them out after they leave the party, who are the libdems still in the Tory party now? Or is that all of them?

[norwaysaint]

*Dickhunter

 

Apologies, that really was a genuine typo, not a cheap insult.

[norwaysaint]

*Duckhunter

 

Damnit, now it's autocorrecting to the new word I seem to have taught it. Again, not deliberate

[Unbelievable Jeff]

*Duckhunter

 

Damnit, now it's autocorrecting to the new word I seem to have taught it. Again, not deliberate ��

 

You were correct the first time.

[Batman]

Think you need to read up on how it works.

 

If Parliament gave the go ahead for an early GE then Boris could pick and choose any date he wanted, Parliament wouldn't have a say.

 

It could have been very easily passed as law for the 15 Oct

[Lord Duckhunter]

Think you need to read up on how it works.

 

If Parliament gave the go ahead for an early GE then Boris could pick and choose any date he wanted, Parliament wouldn't have a say.

 

If he sought an election under the FTPA he gets to fix the date. If he passed a one line “not withstanding the FTPA a General Election will be on 15th Oct” act , that’ll be the law of the land and therefore illegal to change it.

 

It’s all semantics anyway. The opposition know Boris will secure a majority with Nigel’s help & therefore are running scared of the people. The country needs an election and they’ll punish the Remain extremists when one comes.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

I rest my case m'lud.

 

MPs who are actually showing some backbone and trying to protect the country against the most disastrous form of Brexit

 

Pony.

 

Backbone would be going to the people & seeking a mandate. Putting their cushy jobs on the line, risking being rejected by the public. Squatting in Westminster scared your views maybe rejected, is not showing “backbone”Douglas Carswell & Mark Reckless showed backbone.

 

If they thought for one minute the country agreed with them, they’d put it to the vote.

 

 

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Edited 9 September, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[badgerx16]

It could have been very easily passed as law for the 15 Oct

The primary aim of the opposition was to block 'no deal' on Oct 31st, which they think they have done. In doing so they are backing Boris into a "do or die" corner, and think this gives them the best weapon against him in any subsequent GE. Calling a GE before Oct 31st allows Boris to fight it on his terms, with the risk that he would win and "no deal" would still happen on Halloween.

[shurlock]

Varadkar exposing the dopey brexiters (quite a few here) who think there’s such a thing as a clean brexit. Johnson being given a masterclass. Johnson is so out of his depth.

[badgerx16]

More pony on here than the New Forest commons.

[shurlock]

Why do plums think the opposition is running scared. It’s not as if there won’t be an election. There’ll likely be an election in November. The opposition is simply not giving it on the terms that Johnson wants and is ramping up the political pressure (in the same way an October 15 election has a narrowly political purpose for Johnson). It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that Brexiters are throwing their toys out of the pram in impotent rage

[doddisalegend]

Why do plums think the opposition is running scared. It’s not as if there won’t be an election. There’ll likely be an election in November. The opposition is simply not giving it on the terms that Johnson wants and is ramping up the political pressure (in the same way an October 15 election has a narrowly political purpose for Johnson). It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that Brexiters are throwing their toys out of the pram in impotent rage [emoji38]

The opposition don't need an election right now they have the government by the bollix and it's all of Boris's own making.

 

 

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[shurlock]

Lord Dickhunter, I've asked a few times, but you seem to avoid answering. Rather than call them out after they leave the party, who are the libdems still in the Tory party now? Or is that all of them?

 

That’s his modus operandi. He’s a thin-skinned moron. When he gets exposed, he puts you on ignore like he did when he tried defending David Davis hopeless statement in 2016 that “within two years, before the negotiation with the EU is likely to be complete, and therefore before anything material has changed, we can negotiate a free trade area massively larger than the EU”. It was a proper car-crash for him. Wes Tender has his moments and goes missing time to time but at least he doesn’t duck or dodge a debate.

[shurlock]

The opposition don't need an election right now they have the government by the bollix and it's all of Boris's own making.

 

 

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Exactly. We know it, Johnson’s team knows it, even some of the swivels deep down know it. There will be an election - what’s a month or so between friends.

[aintforever]

If he sought an election under the FTPA he gets to fix the date. If he passed a one line “not withstanding the FTPA a General Election will be on 15th Oct” act , that’ll be the law of the land and therefore illegal to change it.

 

It’s all semantics anyway. The opposition know Boris will secure a majority with Nigel’s help & therefore are running scared of the people. The country needs an election and they’ll punish the Remain extremists when one comes.

 

 

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From the BBC:

 

Why did Mr Johnson lose last week's vote?

Many MPs were worried that Mr Johnson would not stick to his pledge to hold the election on 15 October - his preferred date.

A motion, under the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, to call an early election does not specify the day it is to take place.

Instead, MPs simply voted on whether they agreed with the statement "that there shall be an early parliamentary general election".

Senior Labour figures said they would not vote for an early election while there was a risk the prime minister could move the poll to after 31 October - by which point the UK would have left the European Union.

 

If he want to fix the date he could as you say set up a short law "notwithstanding the Fixed Term Parliaments Act" but he didn't.

[Shroppie]

Johnson is increasingly using the argument that we've been discussing Brexit for too long, with the assertion that the British people "want it done".

 

A very standard ploy for anyone struggling to get proposals accepted. "We've spent too long on this. Need to do it". Utterly simplistic and playing on Brexit fatigue. The obvious counter-argument is that much time has been spent on this because it's a bad idea and many sensible people want to stop it.

 

The assertion that the British people want it done is completely untrue. Three years ago, on the basis of lies and misinformation, 51% if those who voted wanted an orderly exit from the EU. It was made clear that leaving without a deal wasn't the plan. Although I'd agree that many want this over, it seems clear there is certainly not a Major for leaving without a deal and very probably not a majority fir leaving at all.

 

Yes, I'd like it sorted, but by revoking Article 50. I take exception to Johnson saying I, and the British people "want this done" and asserting that only means leaving.

 

 

 

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[shurlock]

Johnson is increasingly using the argument that we've been discussing Brexit for too long, with the assertion that the British people "want it done".

 

A very standard ploy for anyone struggling to get proposals accepted. "We've spent too long on this. Need to do it". Utterly simplistic and playing on Brexit fatigue. The obvious counter-argument is that much time has been spent on this because it's a bad idea and many sensible people want to stop it.

 

The assertion that the British people want it done is completely untrue. Three years ago, on the basis of lies and misinformation, 51% if those who voted wanted an orderly exit from the EU. It was made clear that leaving without a deal wasn't the plan. Although I'd agree that many want this over, it seems clear there is certainly not a Major for leaving without a deal and very probably not a majority fir leaving at all.

 

Yes, I'd like it sorted, but by revoking Article 50. I take exception to Johnson saying I, and the British people "want this done" and asserting that only means leaving.

 

 

 

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All this misses the basic point that no deal won’t mark the end of negotiations or closure on the past three years but only the start of a new phase of negotiations. See Ivan Rogers piece in the Spectator.

Edited 9 September, 2019 by shurlock

[Doctoroncall]

The opposition don't need an election right now they have the government by the bollix and it's all of Boris's own making.

 

 

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Unfortunately there is no credible opposition with Corbyn too left wing and flip flopping all over the place, he’ll still lose to this incompetent rabble currently in charge whenever the election is likely to be.

[doddisalegend]

Unfortunately there is no credible opposition with Corbyn too left wing and flip flopping all over the place, he’ll still lose to this incompetent rabble currently in charge whenever the election is likely to be.

Yeah I agree. If labour had someone like Blair ( not that l was a big fan of his) in charge they would be cleaning up in a GE.

 

As it is I can't see anyone getting a comfortable majority at the moment another conservative party with a very small majority is most likely I reckon.

 

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[Tamesaint]

All this misses the basic point that no deal won’t mark the end of negotiations or closure on the past three years but only the start of a new phase of negotiations. See Ivan Rogers piece in the Spectator.

 

I was about to post exactly the same comment.

 

I wish that more people would understand this. Ivan Rogers's excellent piece makes it quite clear that trade talks with the EU have ages to run and leaving without a deal would prolong them even more.

[badgerx16]

Three years ago, on the basis of lies and misinformation, 51% if those who voted wanted an orderly exit from the EU.

2 years ago, 42% of votes were cast for Teresa May and the Conservatives.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

http://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnson-would-not-win-an-election-outright-polling-seen-by-no-10-suggests-11805584

[whelk]

*Dickhunter

 

Apologies, that really was a genuine typo, not a cheap insult.

 

brilliant and apt

[sadoldgit]

Pony.

 

Backbone would be going to the people & seeking a mandate. Putting their cushy jobs on the line, risking being rejected by the public. Squatting in Westminster scared your views maybe rejected, is not showing “backbone”Douglas Carswell & Mark Reckless showed backbone.

 

If they thought for one minute the country agreed with them, they’d put it to the vote.

 

 

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Duckie, you seem to be the only person on the planet who thinks that there wont be an election this year.

[Lord Duckhunter]

with the risk that he would win and "no deal" would still happen on Halloween.

 

What is it with you lot? Democracy seems to frighten you. If the people give a mandate to Boris, so be it. Equally, if they give one to Corbyn or that daft sweaty Lib Dem , the same. Not wanting an election in case you lose, lol. Modern lefties for you.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

I was about to post exactly the same comment.

 

I wish that more people would understand this. Ivan Rogers's excellent piece makes it quite clear that trade talks with the EU have ages to run and leaving without a deal would prolong them even more.

 

People understand it just as much as condescending people like you. They just know that Parliament will not agree any deal that involves leaving. They’ll find any old excuse to vote against, to delay, in the hope that the public mood turns significantly enough to make a re run viable. Once we leave with no deal, we’re out. There’s no turning back, no revoking A50, no delay. The only way back is to rejoin. Remainers have brought this on themselves , they had a perfectly acceptable deal (from a Remain point of view) on the table. A deal that gave them a pathway to any long term relationship anybody desired,except being a member. Which is exactly why they voted it down.

 

 

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[aintforever]

What is it with you lot? Democracy seems to frighten you. If the people give a mandate to Boris, so be it. Equally, if they give one to Corbyn or that daft sweaty Lib Dem , the same. Not wanting an election in case you lose, lol. Modern lefties for you.

 

 

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But if he won an election it would be because Corbyn is unelectable not because the majority want a no deal. The only people running scared are the Brexiteers who are terrified of a second referendum.

[Lord Duckhunter]

But if he won an election it would be because Corbyn is unelectable not because the majority want a no deal. The only people running scared are the Brexiteers who are terrified of a second referendum.

 

Second referendum wouldn’t change anything. If Leave won again, who would enact it? This bunch of MPs have proved that they won’t.

 

Labour will stand on a platform of second referendum, as will Lib Dem’s. If you want a second referendum, the route is via a GE, how else are you going to get it?

 

 

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