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The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.


CB Fry

SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election  

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  1. 1. SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election

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    • Labour
      65
    • Liberals
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2 hours ago, Picard said:

With votes between Labour and Lib dems more evenly split Conservatives could have won. How come more voted Lib Dems ? Was it strategic (to boot the Conservatives out) or were they the better party?

It’s a bit of a return from the 1990s although the pattern never truly stopped in London. The coalition, referendum and lead up to it stopped Lib/Lab tactical voting for many years but it looks like it’s back. Conservatives stopped voting Lib Dem if they didn’t like Tory policies or leaders because of the Lib Dem views on the EU and Labour voters switching because of the Lib Dem participation in the coalition. It appears enough time has passed on both issues for a return to tactical voting.

The last time it happened on this scale was Christchurch 1993 and we all know what happened in 1997. Starmer still has much work to do in cleaning Labour post Corbyn up to be an acceptable alternative but he’s had a better 6 months of it, Corbyn is isolated, the leader election rules have amended from Miliband’s debacle and Unite is far less influential financially and politically. Still some risks with his front bench eg Rayner and Miliband but if the press go for Rayner that may backfire with working class voters.

As a Lib Dem voter, I’m happy to see tactical voting back, the difference here being in a strongly pro Brexit seat. This means Boris has lost a main weapon for a future GE. Trouble for the Tories is that the ideological blendedness that Dell Days complains about above is precisely the reason Boris won London Mayor and the 2019 GE. If austerity returns, the only certainty is a Starmer majority. The Red Wall voted for levelling up and investment eg changes in state aid rules, not Maggie circa 1982. People like Steve Baker are effectively demanding Hassenhuttl to use McMenemy’s tactics - different era and generations. Most Brexit voters do not want Singapore on Thames. Boris may be a buffoon but even he knows this is a fact.

If the Tories change leader next year for a more dry Tory, they may get a brief bounce like Norwich got with Dean Smith and Labour in Brown’s early months but normal service will soon be resumed. They’ve been in power a while now and there’s been a lot of baggage and division - austerity, Grenfell (Labour responsible as well but Tories more visible), Brexit, rise of populism and nationalism, the test and trace debacle at £34bn with their pal Dido Harding and now the lockdown party scandals. It’s a really poor rap sheet and by next summer that’s possibly four PMs in 12 years. 

They are basically divided and drunk at the wheel.

 

Edited by saint1977
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Really good summary 77.

This result does suggest that the lib dems have been rehabilitated in the minds of Labour supporters. And Brexit always had a shelf life.

I never understood labours supporters prolonged hatred of the LDs. It's like our fans not wanting to sign Mason Mount because he was born down the road. These Labour supports prefer to hate the tories rather than wanting to get them out. The same labour supporters that would prefer to support a purer left than actually getting in to power.

What were the LDs meant to do, they are never going to lead alone, they exist to be the king maker in a tight contest. So here they were, the king makers in a tight contest; they had to enter the coalition and that had to do it with the largest party, especially when the largest party agreed to a PR referendum. Otherwise they just become Labours get out clause and kill their MO.

Hopefully this starts some tactical voting again, even the possibility of a pact, although I doubt that would happen.

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46 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Really good summary 77.

This result does suggest that the lib dems have been rehabilitated in the minds of Labour supporters. And Brexit always had a shelf life.

I never understood labours supporters prolonged hatred of the LDs. It's like our fans not wanting to sign Mason Mount because he was born down the road. These Labour supports prefer to hate the tories rather than wanting to get them out. The same labour supporters that would prefer to support a purer left than actually getting in to power.

What were the LDs meant to do, they are never going to lead alone, they exist to be the king maker in a tight contest. So here they were, the king makers in a tight contest; they had to enter the coalition and that had to do it with the largest party, especially when the largest party agreed to a PR referendum. Otherwise they just become Labours get out clause and kill their MO.

Hopefully this starts some tactical voting again, even the possibility of a pact, although I doubt that would happen.

More of an issue is the infighting in the Labour party between the Left and the moderates. They would prefer the Tories get elected than one or other side of the party get elected it seems. Starmer might not have a shedload of charisma but he is a solid, sensible character and would make a good PM. The far Left still side with Corbyn though despite him being an electoral liability.

I have mostly voted LibDem but stopped when they handed power to the Tories which led to the nightmare of the last 11 years. I would like to see some kind of coalition between Labour and the LibDems and a concerted effort to get these awful people out of government.

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7 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Not surprising.

Vote Tory, get this god awful green/red mess. Throw in the parties, ridiculous lockdowns for good measure.

 

He’s always been a pinko, there’s a cigarette  paper between him, Gove and Cameron. The only difference was they came down on the Brexit side. It’s absolutely no surprise to anyone whose followed his career where he’s positioned the party on non Brexit issues. At least Cameron & Osborne were competent pinkos, since Dom’s gone he seems to have become pussy whipped. 
 

I voted for him for one reason, to get Brexit. I’ll always be grateful for him sorting that mess & the great joy of seeing Soubry, Wollaston & the rest of the chumps chucked out of the party & humiliated by the voters. But maybe it’s time for him to depart the stage. 

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1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

More of an issue is the infighting in the Labour party between the Left and the moderates. They would prefer the Tories get elected than one or other side of the party get elected it seems. Starmer might not have a shedload of charisma but he is a solid, sensible character and would make a good PM. The far Left still side with Corbyn though despite him being an electoral liability.

I have mostly voted LibDem but stopped when they handed power to the Tories which led to the nightmare of the last 11 years. I would like to see some kind of coalition between Labour and the LibDems and a concerted effort to get these awful people out of government.

Both Labour and the tories have their different inner camps, as they are broad church parties. The tories are more hungry for power, so they keep a lid on it better. Whereas the Labour factions want to run the party their way, regardless of the fact this fucks them up time and time again.

Question - if you are a LD supporter, you must have understood that you are potentially going into power with the tories. Why was it a surprise?

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2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Both Labour and the tories have their different inner camps, as they are broad church parties. The tories are more hungry for power, so they keep a lid on it better. Whereas the Labour factions want to run the party their way, regardless of the fact this fucks them up time and time again.

Question - if you are a LD supporter, you must have understood that you are potentially going into power with the tories. Why was it a surprise?

It was a surprise because myself and the people I know of a liberal disposition feel that the party has more in common with the Labour Party than the Conservatives. If you recall the origins of the party came in part from a split from the Labour Party and the forming of the Social Democrats. Given the way that the LD vote fell away after Clegg’s dreadful decision I would say that I wasn’t the only one unhappy with the choice.

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2 hours ago, AlexLaw76 said:

Every time the LDs win a by-election, it is huge, game changing etc

 

This is " huge, game changing etc." not because the Lib Dems are now going to change British politics. It is significant because of the damage it does to Johnson's authority. 

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4 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

This is " huge, game changing etc." not because the Lib Dems are now going to change British politics. It is significant because of the damage it does to Johnson's authority. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59699135

Quote

Ex-Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith said No 10 needed discipline

Quote

another senior Tory said the PM needed to get "a bit of a bloody grip".

Not much of a remonstration to be fair....

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The supporters of Alexander Navalny in Russia created a tactical voting app - telling you which candidate in each constituency had the best chance of unseating the incumbent. It was banned obviously, being Russia, but would be fascinating to see what effect it would have at a UK General Election. It could certainly affect results and possibly also spell the end of First Past the Post    

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1 hour ago, buctootim said:

The supporters of Alexander Navalny in Russia created a tactical voting app - telling you which candidate in each constituency had the best chance of unseating the incumbent. It was banned obviously, being Russia, but would be fascinating to see what effect it would have at a UK General Election. It could certainly affect results and possibly also spell the end of First Past the Post    

Aren't 50% of the voters too thick to be able to figure out what the app is telling them though ;) 

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Nice to see the Civil Servants ignored the rules and it wasn't just the Government having parties last year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59701369

Quote

The UK's top civil servant has stepped aside from his role leading an inquiry into Downing Street lockdown parties, after it emerged an event was held in his own office.

Simon Case had been due to report on claims Covid rules were broken at events for staff last year.

But his role was put into doubt after reports a party was held in his office while London was under Covid rules.

 

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5 minutes ago, Tamesaint said:

'Gone in a year'.  Not much of a dressing down.  Most of us had him being replaced by Rishi before next summer anyway - that's just based on the fact he's a complete bellend and has served his purpose and nothing to do with local by-elections.

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Just now, Weston Super Saint said:

'Gone in a year'.  Not much of a dressing down.  Most of us had him being replaced by Rishi before next summer anyway - that's just based on the fact he's a complete bellend and has served his purpose and nothing to do with local by-elections.

If the Tories had retained the seat there would have been none of this talk now.

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15 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Seriously?

Have you forgotten the Christmas party fiasco already?

By retaining the seat he would have gained himself breathing space till the New Year. The Christmas party would be dismissed as an old "Westminster bubble" story which didn't reflect the views of the electorate. 

As it is he is now under pressure from all angles and will be lucky to be leader in much of the New Year.

Edited by Tamesaint
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9 hours ago, buctootim said:

The supporters of Alexander Navalny in Russia created a tactical voting app - telling you which candidate in each constituency had the best chance of unseating the incumbent. It was banned obviously, being Russia, but would be fascinating to see what effect it would have at a UK General Election. It could certainly affect results and possibly also spell the end of First Past the Post    

There was, https://tactical.vote. Obviously didn’t help. 

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Lets face it. Brexit is a fuck up which is doing untold damage to our economy, our country's reputation and our own individual rights. It was based upon the lies promulgated by the one of the biggest elected liars in this country's history and is nothing but a clusterfuck. God knows what benefits it has given us. 

The Northern Ireland question is impossible to resolve and Frostie the snowman has resigned because he knows it cannot be resolved. Ironically the first Cabinet Minister to resign due to "Covid regulations" and "high taxes" is an unelected place holder. Good luck on whoever replaces him .... but this country deserves so much better.      

Edited by Tamesaint
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From the BBC

"

Culture Secretary Nadine Dorries has been kicked out of a Conservative WhatsApp group after urging MPs to show the prime minister "a bit of loyalty".

Messages shot around the "Clean Global Brexit" group - made up of over 100 Tory MPs - following the resignation of Brexit Minister Lord Frost on Saturday.

After claims his exit was a "disaster" and a "hammer blow" for Boris Johnson, Ms Dorries called the PM "a hero".

But former minister Steve Baker removed her, saying: "Enough is enough.""

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On 17/12/2021 at 14:15, Lord Duckhunter said:

He’s always been a pinko, there’s a cigarette  paper between him, Gove and Cameron. The only difference was they came down on the Brexit side. It’s absolutely no surprise to anyone whose followed his career where he’s positioned the party on non Brexit issues. At least Cameron & Osborne were competent pinkos, since Dom’s gone he seems to have become pussy whipped. 
 

I voted for him for one reason, to get Brexit. I’ll always be grateful for him sorting that mess & the great joy of seeing Soubry, Wollaston & the rest of the chumps chucked out of the party & humiliated by the voters. But maybe it’s time for him to depart the stage. 

Always sad to see the working class vote against their own interests. How’s Brexit working out. Hasn’t brought any more jobs for you to apply for.

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Yeah, I'm not sure what was more stupid, Raab explaining that it was okay having a party because they were wearing suits, or the fact that he was pointing at a photo of people not wearing suits.

They really are trying to take everyone for mugs and for the minority of pigthick voters who still defend this corrupt madness, they will be happily clambering into an oven on Saturday morning with stuffing hanging out of their arses.

You asked for a clown.....

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
55 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Who leaked this about Truss? Number 10 or Number 11? They are all puppets held by a few Brexit crazy billionaires strings. Populism my arse.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jan/02/liz-truss-hosted-3k-lunch-for-us-envoy-over-civil-service-objections

Good to see civil servants being good custodians of the public purse. It is beyond comprehension Truss is consider potential leader. Would be the end of the Tories having her incompetencies under public scrutiny. Without charisma she will be fucked like May who at least had intelligence 

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20 minutes ago, whelk said:

Good to see civil servants being good custodians of the public purse. It is beyond comprehension Truss is consider potential leader. Would be the end of the Tories having her incompetencies under public scrutiny. Without charisma she will be fucked like May who at least had intelligence 

I’ve been to 5 Hertford Street. I knew it was a private member’s  club and who it is owned by but honestly it’s not somewhere I’d choose to take anybody. Very pedestrian food and decor. The idea that lunch would be worth £3,000 of anybodys money let alone public officials is mad. Shows again the entitlement running through this government 

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  • Lighthouse changed the title to The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

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