The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[badgerx16]

16 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is that worn torn, terriorist ravaged, 75% below the poverty line Somalia, that one?

Alongside the Libyans, Syrians, Kurds, Iraqis, and Afghans displaced by the consequences of Western foreign policy.

[buctootim]

17 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is that worn torn, terriorist ravaged, 75% below the poverty line Somalia, that one?

Tbf Whitney has a point. 
 

Genuine political refugees tend to be a mix of society - all ages and backgrounds, generally better educated because more often they are the people who get into positions of influence and attract the attention of repressive regimes. They also tend to flee with family and approach embassies or consulates in the country they are in. 
 

Economic migrants tend to be young single men. It’s not credible to claim your are a refugee fleeing persecution when you have travelled through five or six safe countries in order to get to the place you have unilaterally decided you want to live in 

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You are fucking clueless.

 

People attempting to cross into the uk, don’t have “verifiable details” of where they came from. If they did they run the risk of being returned to their home country. Answer me this genius, how do you send people home, if you don’t know where they come from? You can’t, they stay in the UK. So under the “soggy system” foreign clearing stations won’t stop anyone attempting to cross the sea. Once they’re here, there’s nowhere to return them to. The only way foreign clearing stations will work is if everyone applying in the uk is shipped out to them as well. Until the people crossing the sea, don’t get to stay in the uk, you won’t stop people doing it. Good luck with getting a country to agree to take them, and good luck trying to get that through Parliament. It’s Nigel Farages solution, oh and Soggys. 

 

You claimed it was easy to sort out and the Gov should have done so. It isn’t, you just wanted the slag Priti and Johnston off before engaging your brain. 

 

If I am clueless then blame the people who work with the refugees because I am only repeating what they are saying and that the current system needs simplifying. I didn’t say it was easy, I said it needs to be sorted out as I think most reasonable people would want to see happen.

The is no “soggy system” but there are suggestions from those who know more about these things than you or I.

Why would refugees/asylum seeking be unwilling to give full disclosure about where they have come from. It is in their interest to cooperate fully with the process is it not?

As for Patel and Johnson, she said a year ago that she would sort this out yet it is now worse than before. I would have thought a staunch Brexiteer like yourself would be unhappy that so many migrants are still pitching up here. Her language is pejorative and plays to those in the anti immigrant camp. It is not helpful.

Johnson has just managed to piss of the very people we need to work with in order to sort this problem out and has set the process back by goodness knows how long. The actions of a responsible, sensible PM or someone who is more interested in playing to the gallery at home? You tell me but I think any reasonable person would find the actions and behaviour of both of them to be very poor.

A final question for you. If you were on a boat in the channel and came across a dinghy full of people, would you turn them back to where they came from or would you take them on board, give them blankets, food and drink and bring them back safely before turning them over to the authorities?

https://www.indy100.com/news/refugees-migrants-priti-patel-lord-kerr-b1965324?amp

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-patels-economic-migrants-narrative-destroyed-in-cry-for-humanity-clip-302770/amp/

Edited 29 November, 2021 by sadoldgit
Addition

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

We seem to be talking about two different types of people. I am talking about the genuine asylum seekers. 

You’re all over the place.

You were talking about stopping the sea crossings. Are you now only talking about stopping sea crossings for “genuine asylum seekers”. Undocumented people can still take their chances? 
 

You still seem incapable of answering the basic question asked of you. How does foreign clearing stations stop people making dangerous sea crossings to the UK? 

[Lord Duckhunter]

6 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Why would refugees/asylum seeking be unwilling to give full disclosure about where they have come from. It is in their interest to cooperate fully with the process is it not?

 

Dear god.

[Lord Duckhunter]

8 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

A final question for you. If you were on a boat in the channel and came across a dinghy full of people, would you turn them back to where they came from or would you take them on board, give them blankets, food and drink and bring them back safely before turning them over to the authorities?

I wouldn’t send them to a “clearing station” abroad, like you and Nigel Farage  want to. 
 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

33 minutes ago, buctootim said:

 

Genuine political refugees tend to be a mix of society - all ages and backgrounds, generally better educated because more often they are the people who get into positions of influence and attract the attention of repressive regimes. They also tend to flee with family and approach embassies or consulates in the country they are in. 
 

Economic migrants tend to be young single men. It’s not credible to claim your are a refugee fleeing persecution when you have travelled through five or six safe countries in order to get to the place you have unilaterally decided you want to live in 

Spot on. Give Soggy a lesson will you? 
 

The people risking their lives in dangerous sea crossings come predominantly from the second group, or the very poorest in the first group. Soggy & Farage’s clearing stations abroad will be full of people who’ll get asylum in this country under the present system. It won’t cater for the people in the boats. It won’t change the risk/reward calculation these poor unfortunates make. The only thing that will stop sea crossings is stopping them at source and why on earth would The French make more than a token effort to do that? To think that they’ll make more effort if a pro French europhile remainer was PM is for the birds. French politicians have electorate to face and I doubt “we kept migrants wishing to leave here” will be a particularly great line to secure your re-election. 
 

 

 

[Whitey Grandad]

2 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

We

We seem to be talking about two different types of people. I am talking about the genuine asylum seekers. As for not being doctors or going to university any time soon, don’t we need HGV drivers, fruit pickers, bricklayers etc too?

We do, but the people that I have seen are unskilled, have no capital to bring into the country and have no knowledge or experience of western culture and expected behaviour. We already have more than enough potential trainees for such jobs in our country.

[Whitey Grandad]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Is that worn torn, terriorist ravaged, 75% below the poverty line Somalia, that one?

Whose poverty line is that?

[aintforever]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

 

How does foreign clearing stations stop people making dangerous sea crossings to the UK? 

You will never stop it but a realistic chance of safe passage would probably appeal to those genuine refugees not keen on the risk of drowning. Plus if we actually work with France and take an agreed amount they would probably be more inclined to police the shores better to stop the illegals.

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You will never stop it but a realistic chance of safe passage would probably appeal to those genuine refugees not keen on the risk of drowning. 

The vast majority crossing are undocumented, as Tim explained most of the genuine refugees don’t need to attempt it. . Interesting to see another leftie backing Nigel Farage’s solution though . 

Edited 29 November, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[aintforever]

9 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The vast majority crossing are undocumented, as Tim explained most of the genuine refugees don’t need to attempt it. . Interesting to see another leftie backing Nigel Farage’s solution though . 

I have no idea what the rubber-faced cunt’s policy on asylum seekers is but whatever it is it’s probably an improvement on Pritti Patel’s moronic ideas.

[Fan The Flames]

8 hours ago, buctootim said:

Tbf Whitney has a point. 
 

Genuine political refugees tend to be a mix of society - all ages and backgrounds, generally better educated because more often they are the people who get into positions of influence and attract the attention of repressive regimes. They also tend to flee with family and approach embassies or consulates in the country they are in. 
 

Economic migrants tend to be young single men. It’s not credible to claim your are a refugee fleeing persecution when you have travelled through five or six safe countries in order to get to the place you have unilaterally decided you want to live in 

He hasn't got a point really. There's a wide group of a people inbetween political refugees and economic migrants.

To be able to claim asylum you have to be fearful of persecution if you return. Take Whities Somalia, it was in a civil war for decades, the rule of law has gone, the economy has collapsed and parts of the country are run by war lords and gangs; a 20 year old man, who has grown up knowing nothing else all his life, to survive he gets involved in stuff that gets him on the wrong side of a war lord. So his only option now is to run. Not a political refugee or economic migrant but still a refugee under international law.

The point about seeking asylum in the first safe country is a valid one. However it's only natural for someone to have a preference, to seek out family or friends and in doing so doesn't diminish from the plight they are in. I know if England went to rat shit, I'd have a list in preference order about where I would run to.

[Whitey Grandad]

10 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

He hasn't got a point really. There's a wide group of a people inbetween political refugees and economic migrants.

To be able to claim asylum you have to be fearful of persecution if you return. Take Whities Somalia, it was in a civil war for decades, the rule of law has gone, the economy has collapsed and parts of the country are run by war lords and gangs; a 20 year old man, who has grown up knowing nothing else all his life, to survive he gets involved in stuff that gets him on the wrong side of a war lord. So his only option now is to run. Not a political refugee or economic migrant but still a refugee under international law.

The point about seeking asylum in the first safe country is a valid one. However it's only natural for someone to have a preference, to seek out family or friends and in doing so doesn't diminish from the plight they are in. I know if England went to rat shit, I'd have a list in preference order about where I would run to.

That was just one example. Many other countries are available.

[buctootim]

20 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

The point about seeking asylum in the first safe country is a valid one. However it's only natural for someone to have a preference, to seek out family or friends and in doing so doesn't diminish from the plight they are in. I know if England went to rat shit, I'd have a list in preference order about where I would run to.

Sure you would, and so would I. That doesn't mean that I would expect whichever country I fancy to admit me freely or to not deport me if I enter illegally.  Anyhow the idea that these guys are penniless is flawed. It can cost £20,000 to travel to the UK via people smugglers. With £20,000 you could set yourself up in business in Somalia. It is the epitome of an economic migrant   

Edited 29 November, 2021 by buctootim

[aintforever]

7 minutes ago, buctootim said:

Sure you would, and so would I. That doesn't mean that I would expect whichever country I fancy to admit me freely or to not deport me if I enter illegally.  Anyhow the idea that these guys are penniless is flawed. It can cost £20,000 to travel to the UK via people smugglers. With £20,000 you could set yourself up in business in Somalia. It is the epitome of an economic migrant   

How is setting up a business going to stop you getting killed?

[hypochondriac]

8 hours ago, buctootim said:

Sure you would, and so would I. That doesn't mean that I would expect whichever country I fancy to admit me freely or to not deport me if I enter illegally.  Anyhow the idea that these guys are penniless is flawed. It can cost £20,000 to travel to the UK via people smugglers. With £20,000 you could set yourself up in business in Somalia. It is the epitome of an economic migrant   

Absolutely. You can't blame the migrants for attempting to get the best deal they can out of life but let's not try to demonise the state in this instance for trying to prevent dangerous crossings that should never be happening. 

[Fan The Flames]

9 hours ago, buctootim said:

Sure you would, and so would I. That doesn't mean that I would expect whichever country I fancy to admit me freely or to not deport me if I enter illegally.  Anyhow the idea that these guys are penniless is flawed. It can cost £20,000 to travel to the UK via people smugglers. With £20,000 you could set yourself up in business in Somalia. It is the epitome of an economic migrant   

Who said they were penniless, is that now one of your criteria, are your nice higher educated political refugees, you know the deserving migrants, are they penniless?

If someone had £20k to blow, with that sort of money surely they could find an easy route than weeks sitting in the French woods and then crossing on a blow up boat.

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

Absolutely. You can't blame the migrants for attempting to get the best deal they can out of life but let's not try to demonise the state in this instance for trying to prevent dangerous crossings that should never be happening. 

I'm not demonising the state, all along I've said its a hard issue to crack. But the level of debate is poor when people are offering up basket case Somalia as an example a stable country that people don't need to flee from.

Let's not pretend this is about the tories trying to prevent dangerous crossings because of the harm they cause. This is about protecting the borders and that's ok, people want them to do that. Call it what it is.

[egg]

14 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Who said they were penniless, is that now one of your criteria, are your nice higher educated political refugees, you know the deserving migrants, are they penniless?

If someone had £20k to blow, with that sort of money surely they could find an easy route than weeks sitting in the French woods and then crossing on a blow up boat.

However you cut it, the only people in those boats who just want to be safe and secure are the kids. The adults all left war / genocide / persecution behind many countries ago, and are seeking to land on these shores for economic reasons. Sure, the French make life bloody uncomfortable for them, but they've been through numerous safe countries before arriving there. 

[buctootim]

2 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Who said they were penniless, is that now one of your criteria, are your nice higher educated political refugees, you know the deserving migrants, are they penniless?

If someone had £20k to blow, with that sort of money surely they could find an easy route than weeks sitting in the French woods and then crossing on a blow up boat.

How? What easier route when you have deliberately left any ID or papers at home? If you cant see the problems associated with letting in large numbers of young single men who wont say where they are from, have demonstrated they are prepared to engage in high risk behaviour, break the law, deal with smugglers then you aren't thinking clearly. All those attributes are exactly what you don't want in selecting potential immigrants who will settle easily in the UK.   

[Fan The Flames]

11 minutes ago, buctootim said:

How? What easier route when you have deliberately left any ID or papers at home? If you cant see the problems associated with letting in large numbers of young single men who wont say where they are from, have demonstrated they are prepared to engage in high risk behaviour, break the law, deal with smugglers then you aren't thinking clearly. All those attributes are exactly what you don't want in selecting potential immigrants who will settle easily in the UK.   

If you've got £20k, you've got the wedge to arrange a student/tourist visa and just fly here. With £20k you can bribe a lot of officials in these countries.

I have never said open the border, I have said it's a really hard issue to solve, I also agree that some are economic migrants. I am just countering some of the simplistic or incorrect narrative that always floats around this subject.

[Lord Duckhunter]

34 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

 

I have never said open the border, I have said it's a really hard issue to solve, I also agree that some are economic migrants. I am just countering some of the simplistic or incorrect narrative that always floats around this subject.

It’s near on impossible to solve. Every single side uses simplistic answers to appeal to their target voters. The Government pretend they can sort it with tough action, whilst the opposite sides (left & right) just chuck stones without any workable suggestions. 

[sadoldgit]

23 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I wouldn’t send them to a “clearing station” abroad, like you and Nigel Farage  want to. 
 

 

WTF are you talking about? Why would anybody send asylum seekers abroad once they have made it here and why this obsession with trying to link me and Farage? It seem that, in your haste to find something to get angry about you don’t read what has been written.

I am talking about finding easier ways of allowing those who haven’t made it here for whatever reasons ( go and read what Lord Kerr has to say about it if you think there isn’t a problem - quoted in a post above) of applying - maybe through clearing stations overseas, our embassies etc. It really isn’t difficult to understand. 

Those already here stay here and go through the process here. Understand?

As to why it will prevent people risking their lives to get here, at the moment they have to be here to apply. They cannot apply from abroad. If they could there would be no reason to get in a dingy. Understand?

And as for the good old British treating them decently and with respect, read this -

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-england-sussex-59468168&data=04|01||fcfe8f89c03f44cd51ff08d9b38ecb52|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|637738248143922599|Unknown|TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D|3000&sdata=4LmYSfi%2FCdmT8MxsfAXlchMu4U%2FaLK%2FG78o3hO89DGU%3D&reserved=0

 

[sadoldgit]

18 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The vast majority crossing are undocumented, as Tim explained most of the genuine refugees don’t need to attempt it. . Interesting to see another leftie backing Nigel Farage’s solution though . 

How do you know if they are undocumented? You sound as clueless as the Home Secretary. 
 

https://www.indy100.com/news/refugees-migrants-priti-patel-lord-kerr-b1965324?amp

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/watch-patels-economic-migrants-narrative-destroyed-in-cry-for-humanity-clip-302770/amp/

[Lord Duckhunter]

46 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

 

Those already here stay here and go through the process here. Understand?

 

 

I do, you clearly don’t. 
 

This is the incentive for people to make the sea journey. The fact you’ve written it as a defence of your ridiculous plan, sums up your level of understanding. 

Edited 30 November, 2021 by Lord Duckhunter

[rallyboy]

If I read the latest corruption news correctly, has it now emerged that Hancock went to great lengths to cover up giving his pub mate a £40m contract by hiding the specific detail in the small print and blanking that out in the public version?

[sadoldgit]

On 30/11/2021 at 14:42, Lord Duckhunter said:

I do, you clearly don’t. 
 

This is the incentive for people to make the sea journey. The fact you’ve written it as a defence of your ridiculous plan, sums up your level of understanding. 

So let me get this right, given a choice of risking their lives and the lives of their children in a leaky dingy crossing a freezing channel in order to apply for asylum here is preferable to staying in a safe place and doing so from abroad. Whatever it is your smoking Duckie it has clearly addled your brain.

some info for you -

As a signatory to the 1951 Refugee Convention, the UK fully considers all asylum applications lodged in the UK. However, the UK’s international obligations under the Convention do not extend to the consideration of asylum applications lodged abroad and there is no provision in our Immigration Rules for someone abroad to be given permission to travel to the UK to seek asylum. The policy guidance on the discretionary referral to the UK Border Agency of applications for asylum by individuals in a third country who have not been recognised as refugees by another country or by the UNHCR under its mandate, has been withdrawn. No applications will be considered by a UK visa-issuing post or by the UK Border Agency pending a review of the policy and guidance.
20 September 2011

Edited 2 December, 2021 by sadoldgit
Addition

[rallyboy]

I get the impression that enthusiasm for defending this government is dwindling and people are less keen to sully their own reputations by explaining away the corruption and misinformation right now.

I'm sure they'll still vote for all the unsavoury stuff, on the quiet, but people seem less keen to own it at the moment, as if they now finally realise how much it reflects on them. 

Honest question - any Boris fans feeling like enough is enough?

And dumping the leader is no get out at all, that won't cleanse the soul - same party, same government, same policies and same agenda.

For me the only thing that would clean this current mess is genuine independent enquiries, sackings, a massive overhaul, and if required, a prosecution or three.

 

[The Left Back]

On 30/11/2021 at 11:43, Lord Duckhunter said:

It’s near on impossible to solve. Every single side uses simplistic answers to appeal to their target voters. The Government pretend they can sort it with tough action, whilst the opposite sides (left & right) just chuck stones without any workable suggestions. 

I completely agree with this.  The solution requires people to not want/need to leave their homes in the first place.  The problems all flow from there.  All the solutions I see and hear (included those being debated on here) are treating the symptoms only, and often with an inadequate plaster.

So if we put on the table solving the issues of why people leave their homes we immediately come into rather large questions about globalisation, inequality, religion, colonialisation, the role of the UN, even the whole capitalist system.

In the face of that I just hope for honesty from our government, rather than using the topic as a political football.  And also that we try and treat everyone humanely and fairly. It's easy to feel some empathy for political refugees but even economic migrants are coming because they want some of the lifestyle we have here.  We tell the world this is the best country in the world and then we are surprised when people want to come.

[sadoldgit]

12 minutes ago, The Left Back said:

I completely agree with this.  The solution requires people to not want/need to leave their homes in the first place.  The problems all flow from there.  All the solutions I see and hear (included those being debated on here) are treating the symptoms only, and often with an inadequate plaster.

So if we put on the table solving the issues of why people leave their homes we immediately come into rather large questions about globalisation, inequality, religion, colonialisation, the role of the UN, even the whole capitalist system.

In the face of that I just hope for honesty from our government, rather than using the topic as a political football.  And also that we try and treat everyone humanely and fairly. It's easy to feel some empathy for political refugees but even economic migrants are coming because they want some of the lifestyle we have here.  We tell the world this is the best country in the world and then we are surprised when people want to come.

The problem is in order to stop people wanting to leave where they are you need to stop wars, famine etc. We are one of the main drivers of conflicts that have seen a surge in refugees. We have also cut foreign aid which of course doesn’t help the situation one iota. The West is the cause of most of these problems. The West needs to  fix it and Priti Patel’s latest bill will only make matters worse and drive more people into the hands of the people traffickers. We have done a runner from Afghanistan and have deserted the very people that were working with us to make Afghanistan a better place to live. There is currently no system in place for those people who supported us to apply to join their families (for those separated) over here. Many of those people will end up in dinghies on the Channel if something isn’t done soon.Patel’s bill is a backward step. Cutting foreign aid was a backward step. We have a government intent on making things worse rather than trying to find proper, decent, humanitarian solutions to problems often of our own making.

 

[The Left Back]

1 hour ago, sadoldgit said:

The problem is in order to stop people wanting to leave where they are you need to stop wars, famine etc. We are one of the main drivers of conflicts that have seen a surge in refugees. We have also cut foreign aid which of course doesn’t help the situation one iota. The West is the cause of most of these problems. The West needs to  fix it and Priti Patel’s latest bill will only make matters worse and drive more people into the hands of the people traffickers. We have done a runner from Afghanistan and have deserted the very people that were working with us to make Afghanistan a better place to live. There is currently no system in place for those people who supported us to apply to join their families (for those separated) over here. Many of those people will end up in dinghies on the Channel if something isn’t done soon.Patel’s bill is a backward step. Cutting foreign aid was a backward step. We have a government intent on making things worse rather than trying to find proper, decent, humanitarian solutions to problems often of our own making.

 

I agree with this as well, although I do feel Patel's bill and even foreign aid are merely treating the symptoms not the cause.  It can't be a surprise to anyone that we have people turning up from Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans, Yemen, Syria etc etc.  And it shouldn't surprise anyone either that people want to enter the UK specifically or that they will try to get through however many other countries to do so.  

Edit.  I want to add that the other complicating factor is we can't solve this on our own.  We are not the sole cause of the problem and we don't hold the levers for the solution.  We need a global response to a global problem - making it even more difficult to achieve.  So this isn't a Brit-bashing view, but neither is it blaming the French, the Turkish, the people themselves.  Mass migration of humans (which is in our DNA anyway) is a natural by-product of a complex global free market system - in my opinion.

Edited 3 December, 2021 by The Left Back

[Lord Duckhunter]

15 hours ago, sadoldgit said:

So let me get this right, given a choice of risking their lives and the lives of their children in a leaky dingy crossing a freezing channel in order to apply for asylum here is preferable to staying in a safe place and doing so from abroad. Whatever it is your smoking Duckie it has clearly addled your brain.

 

Instead of throwing insults around, try and answer the fundamental questions regarding the Soggy/Farage foreign “clearing stations”.

Firstly, where will they be. Who on earth would want thousands upon thousands in their country. It could be just as dangerous getting to the clearing station as it is getting across the Chanel. 

Secondly. You seem to think every asylum seeker turns up with passport & 2 utility bills to prove their address in wartornville. Your plan that people who arrive in the UK can stay in the UK means that for undocumented people, people that feel their claims maybe rejected, and economic migrants, will still attempt the crossing. It will not stop people dying. At least Farages plan, that upon arrival in the uk you’re shipped to a foreign clearing station, will stop the crossings. The risk/reward isn’t worth it, at best you’re taken abroad to a clearing station, at worst you drown. Under your ridiculous plan, you get to stay in the uk or drown, exactly the same as now. 
 

Your plan is simplistic pony that won’t stop people dying. 

[Mystic Force]

If we could get the french to give Calais back we could use that as our clearing station!

[buctootim]

3 minutes ago, Mystic Force said:

If we could get the french to give Calais back we could use that as our clearing station!

Or China! Lets have a third opium war!  

[Golactico]

A bit of a change of subject, but still very much on topic.

1/ The Prime Minister has not denied that a social gathering took place at his No 10 Downing Street residence on 18/12/20. 

 

2/ The PM's claim that 'all guidance was followed' at this gathering, simply cannot be true.

 

3/ People were dying on 18/12/20, without having seen their relatives, through adherence to the covid guidance that was ignored by No 10.

 

If the above three statements are true (which it seems very likely they are), why isn't the country (including decent Conservative MPs) up in arms, demanding the Prime Minister's resignation? It's not even stayed on the news agenda. Strange times.

[badgerx16]

55 minutes ago, Golactico said:

A bit of a change of subject, but still very much on topic.

1/ The Prime Minister has not denied that a social gathering took place at his No 10 Downing Street residence on 18/12/20. 

 

2/ The PM's claim that 'all guidance was followed' at this gathering, simply cannot be true.

 

3/ People were dying on 18/12/20, without having seen their relatives, through adherence to the covid guidance that was ignored by No 10.

 

If the above three statements are true (which it seems very likely they are), why isn't the country (including decent Conservative MPs) up in arms, demanding the Prime Minister's resignation? It's not even stayed on the news agenda. Strange times.

1) Most people couldn't care less, especially those that are happy that BoJo "Got Brexit Done"

2) Tory MPs are happy at the moment for BoJo to stay in office as a Human Shield to take any flak flying during the pandemic.

3) Many MPs, Tory and others, have flouted the rules, ( eg Mancock ), so it would be hypocritical to use this against BoJo.

Edited 3 December, 2021 by badgerx16

[sadoldgit]

5 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Instead of throwing insults around, try and answer the fundamental questions regarding the Soggy/Farage foreign “clearing stations”.

Firstly, where will they be. Who on earth would want thousands upon thousands in their country. It could be just as dangerous getting to the clearing station as it is getting across the Chanel. 

Secondly. You seem to think every asylum seeker turns up with passport & 2 utility bills to prove their address in wartornville. Your plan that people who arrive in the UK can stay in the UK means that for undocumented people, people that feel their claims maybe rejected, and economic migrants, will still attempt the crossing. It will not stop people dying. At least Farages plan, that upon arrival in the uk you’re shipped to a foreign clearing station, will stop the crossings. The risk/reward isn’t worth it, at best you’re taken abroad to a clearing station, at worst you drown. Under your ridiculous plan, you get to stay in the uk or drown, exactly the same as now. 
 

Your plan is simplistic pony that won’t stop people dying. 

I don’t have a plan, I simply repeated a suggestion that came from people who work with refugees. Clearly the most important thing is to find a way to stop refugees and asylum seekers crossing the channel in dinghies. You need to look at what your party is doing to make these crossings more likely. And please stop linking me to Farage. Not once have I suggested that we send people to foreign clearing stations from here. Why do you persist with this nonsense? You are the one talking”pony”.

[badgerx16]

5 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

I don’t have a plan,

Didn't know you were part of the Government.

[Lord Duckhunter]

13 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

Didn't know you were part of the Government.

He isn’t, but he said it could be easily sorted out. 

[Lord Duckhunter]

19 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Clearly the most important thing is to find a way to stop refugees and asylum seekers crossing the channel in dinghies. 

And foreign “clearing stations” won’t do that unless you ship people arriving in the uk to them. You also need foreign countries to agree to them. It’s simplistic pony to think they’re the solution. 

 

 

[Warriorsaint]

On 26/11/2021 at 12:02, Lord Duckhunter said:

What a load of old pony. 
 

Of course you need to label people, that’s how you differentiate and decide who is deserving of refugee status  and who isn’t. 
 

Who isn’t being treated as a “human”? And in what way are they not treated as a “human” by the British? 
 

 

 

 

My oh my, you get awfully upset at the distracting talking points.

 I think you should save your energy and look for a job and contribute to society.

At least the folks who want to come here want to work unlike you who is stealing from my pocket.

[sadoldgit]

On 03/12/2021 at 18:30, Lord Duckhunter said:

And foreign “clearing stations” won’t do that unless you ship people arriving in the uk to them. You also need foreign countries to agree to them. It’s simplistic pony to think they’re the solution. 

 

 

Why would we want to ship people to foreign clearing stations if they are already here? If they are here then they apply for asylum here. It really isn’t difficult and only seems an option considered by the likes of Patel and Farage.Why would foreign countries not cooperate with moving refugees on? It is in there interest to do so. The UN is already involved in dealing with the refugee problem, so what is the issue with countries working with UN agencies to sort out asylum applications? The problem we have is that we have shut down the previous routes for asylum seekers and this government is responsible for the rise in those risking their lives crossing the channel. Read this piece from your party’s very own Brexiteer David Davis.

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Famp.theguardian.com%2Fcommentisfree%2F2021%2Fdec%2F04%2Fpriti-patel-plan-to-offshore-refugees-costly-wrong-doomed-to-fail&data=04|01||48e76adac453433fcffc08d9b7d36e2a|84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa|1|0|637742940973377721|Unknown|TWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D|3000&sdata=zJ%2B4dPfGz3QKF%2FFCMDPmck1oWmPCl9Ez2TJzX7HDfQw%3D&reserved=0

We have Embassy’s all over the world. Why can’t we allow people to apply for asylum through those? This government has made it so that the only way you can apply for asylum here is to be here. That is the issue and that needs to be dealt with.

[Ted Bates Statue]

20 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

 I think you should save your energy and look for a job and contribute to society.

At least the folks who want to come here want to work unlike you who is stealing from my pocket.

Bit presumptive to suggest he's a useless sponger purely on the basis of him spouting shit on a message board

[Warriorsaint]

47 minutes ago, Ted Bates Statue said:

Bit presumptive to suggest he's a useless sponger purely on the basis of him spouting shit on a message board

He hasn’t denied it on many occasion. I also know it to be true.

Likes to denigrate other people as spongers coming to steal our houses and jobs like the simpleton he is.

Turns out he is one of the biggest spongers out there.

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 05/12/2021 at 18:58, sadoldgit said:

Why would we want to ship people to foreign clearing stations if they are already here? If they are here then they apply for asylum here. 

Dear god. Is it an act?

If you let them apply here, you won’t stop the sea crossings. 

[whelk]

This cunt loves a photo opportunity. He’s like a fuckin child

 

[sadoldgit]

3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Dear god. Is it an act?

If you let them apply here, you won’t stop the sea crossings. 

You really don’t get it do you? They are crossing because they can ONLY apply here. 🙄

[Warriorsaint]

On 30/11/2021 at 08:48, egg said:

However you cut it, the only people in those boats who just want to be safe and secure are the kids. The adults all left war / genocide / persecution behind many countries ago, and are seeking to land on these shores for economic reasons. Sure, the French make life bloody uncomfortable for them, but they've been through numerous safe countries before arriving there. 

Good grief. Merry Christmas. Light of charity right there.

[CB Fry]

Well, I think we can safely say that at least one person from The Sun was at the Downing Street party last year. They've managed to find a completely different front page story for tomorrow. 

Meanwhile ITV News at Ten went in harder than any British news program I can remember. Not sure old Trevor Mcdonald would deliver such a polemic. Ooof.

 

Will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

 

 

(additional- current Sun deputy editor was part of Downing Street comms team last year, so fairly safe to assume he probably was there.)

 

 

 

Edited 7 December, 2021 by CB Fry