The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Warriorsaint]

2 hours ago, trousers said:

So, not people banging on about it on football forums then?

No, very niche market that lol 😆 

[revolution saint]

9 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

The problem remain had was a lot of their supporters had spent years pretending they were euro sceptical. Cameron’s laughable suggestion that had he not got significant treaty change he’d recommend leaving, is a case in point. He lied, plain and simple, and people saw through it.
 

People like Ken Clarke were extremely rare on the pro side, somebody who told it like it was, how it was going to be, and fuck the consequences to his career (had he bullshitted like major & Cameron he’d have led the party). The remain establishment had 40 years to sell us the vision, but they never did. They always criticised The EU, always saying it needed reform or change. Their argument was The EU’s shit, but being outside is even shittier. That’s no way to win hearts and minds and no way to win a referendum.

 

Vote leave we’re pushing at an open door, a door left ajar by people pretending they were euro sceptic until it mattered. It was too late by then. The narrative was its shit, but do we make things better by leaving or staying in and reforming it? 

I pretty much agree with this but you have to wonder why Major and Cameron didn't tell it like it was and why Ken Clarke suffered for doing exactly that.  It was at least partly because of the euro sceptic wing of the Tory party.  As you've said - telling it like it is meant you didn't become leader of the (tory) party.  I think you're right that stronger leadership would have meant a stronger remain argument during the referendum but lets not pretend that argument would have been easy, winnable or even possible on the Tory side at least.

On a completely different note I've just seen Peter Lilley bemoan the fact that British firms have used cheap foreign labour and failed to train resident UK citizens resulting in a skills shortage (in this case HGV drivers).  I agree with him but it's a bit galling coming from someone who actively participated in the privatisation of industries that used to train and provide apprenticeships to people because they realised they had a duty for the long term prosperity of the country and not just the bottom line.  It's a bit rich to blame companies for following market forces and cutting skills training when you actively created the environment you now blame.  None of this is directed at LDs post - it just annoyed me (and I also realise it doesn't count in the HGV case but it was just a general point). 

[badgerx16]

There was a chap on the radio yesterday who drives fuel tankers for a large fuel company. He said he was the youngest driver at his depot.

He is 50.

This has been a long time coming; Brexit has made it worse, but many years of ignoring the issue are now coming to a head.

[spyinthesky]

6 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

There was a chap on the radio yesterday who drives fuel tankers for a large fuel company. He said he was the youngest driver at his depot.

He is 50.

This has been a long time coming; Brexit has made it worse, but many years of ignoring the issue are now coming to a head.

One of my relatives works for a recruitment Agency.

Apparently there are a number of jobs available driving machinery/HGV's etc which require applicants to take a Drugs & Alcohol test.

Quite a few younger applicants decide not to pursue their interest in the advertised job when they find out they have to submit to this test.

Rather worrying I think and perhaps indicates why HGV drivers have an average age of 56!!

[rallyboy]

Talking of MPs not telling it like it is, people don't want to hear reality, they want to be told about unicorns and sunny uplands.

Remember when leadership candidate Rory Stewart told the party that he felt the country needed to be careful about any fallout from the world economy because we were still in  difficult times, and that it was no time to reduce taxes? - they fucking hated hearing reality and went for the floppy-balding Joker with his cheerfully mad talk of us being first in line for the easiest trade deals in history and holding all the cards because we lead the world in every field of human endeavour....batshit crazy nonesense.

[whelk]

I wish there was shortage of van drivers. I can see appeal of driving around listening to simon Bates ‘our tune’ tooting horn at all the fit women and generally being stress free. Fuck one of those big lorries though sleeping In lay-bys with all the other smelly pervert lorry drivers. 

[whelk]

Labour should be absolutely battering govt at this point. Sham of opposition can’t take any opportunity and probably be debating why men need educating to allow women to reclaim the streets.

[The Cat]

I only just saw Johnson's speech where he started talking about Kermit.

Mad as a box of frogs.

[badgerx16]

Government spokesman :- "We are moving to a high wage, high skills economy, so companies will have to adapt". That's all well and good, but if nobody wants to drive HGVs then nothing will be getting shipped about.

 

I wonder if we will see a big push for driver-less technology in trucks.

Edited 25 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[buctootim]

6 hours ago, whelk said: Fuck one of those big lorries though sleeping In lay-bys with all the other smelly pervert lorry drivers. 

I think you get your own cab tbf

[a1ex2001]

18 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Government spokesman :- "We are moving to a high wage, high skills economy, so companies will have to adapt". That's all well and good, but if nobody wants to drive HGVs then nothing will be getting shipped about.

 

I wonder if we will see a big push for driver-less technology in trucks.

‘High skills economy’ got to love a Tory three word slogan!  I guess they had to move in from ‘get brexit done’ and all the levelling up fluff seems to have died a death!

[buctootim]

19 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

Government spokesman :- "We are moving to a high wage, high skills economy, so companies will have to adapt". That's all well and good, but if nobody wants to drive HGVs then nothing will be getting shipped about.

I wonder if we will see a big push for driver-less technology in trucks.

No forgetting bum wiping and bed bathing care robots who can also cook and go to the shops for their housebound clients 

[rallyboy]

Have we Built Back Better yet?

 

[The Cat]

41 minutes ago, rallyboy said:

Have we Built Back Better yet?

 

We don't have any lorry drivers to deliver the materials so that will have to wait.

[badgerx16]

On 25/09/2021 at 10:32, whelk said:

Labour should be absolutely battering govt at this point. Sham of opposition can’t take any opportunity and probably be debating why men need educating to allow women to reclaim the streets.

"Labour conference: Not right to say only women have a cervix, says Starmer"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-58698406

 

They have obviously identified the important issues that are affecting al of us.

[Trout-Tickler]

Had my doubts but BoJo has certainly delivered on his promise to level things up across the country (and in double quick time!). Whether you're in the north or the south you now have an equal chance of having no fuel.

[Fan The Flames]

On 25/09/2021 at 13:02, badgerx16 said:

Government spokesman :- "We are moving to a high wage, high skills economy, so companies will have to adapt". That's all well and good, but if nobody wants to drive HGVs then nothing will be getting shipped about.

 

I wonder if we will see a big push for driver-less technology in trucks.

Stuff that I've read suggests that it's further away than we think. They can not replicate a humans awareness when driving in crowded cities with a computer and sensors, yet. These things can jump forward quickly though.

AI is more likely to replace lawyers than lorry drivers at the moment.

[buctootim]

19 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

Stuff that I've read suggests that it's further away than we think. They can not replicate a humans awareness when driving in crowded cities with a computer and sensors, yet. These things can jump forward quickly though.

AI is more likely to replace lawyers than lorry drivers at the moment.

Its easier to imagine AI guided cars and trucks on motorways and trunk roads as less issue with pedestrians, junctions, U turns, bin lorries and supermarket delivery vans etc. You could probably roll out a system of off motorway hubs for autonomous HGVs to deal with 90% of the delivery miles with driver operated vans and smaller trucks doing the local stuff.      

[Dorchester Saint]

Hilarious watching the Labour Party destroying themselves again this week. Queen of the chavs Angie Rayner has stolen all of Keith’s thunder, despite him making the bonkers claim that men have a cervix!! Attack dog Angie had labelled the majority of the electorate as “Scum” along with  the usual tiresome Labour insults like “racist” “mysoginist” “homophobic” etc etc and one of the clowns even told white people not to put their hands up!!

Keep it up Labour, the further your party of division, ineptitude and bitterness is from No10 the better!!

Edited 28 September, 2021 by Dorchester Saint

[Fan The Flames]

6 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Hilarious watching the Labour Party destroying themselves again this week. Vickie Pollard has stolen all of Keith’s thunder, the majority of the electorate are apparently “Scum” as well as the usual Labour insults like “racist” “mysoginist” “homophobic” etc etc and one of the clowns even told white people not to put their hands up!!

Keep it up Labour, the further your party of division and bitterness is from No10 the better!!

Whilst you're right current Labour are a joke, the left of the party only care about running the party.

Your last bit is stretching it a bit, there was a small part of the question session, where questions were invited from women and people of colour. Not really a problem.

[badgerx16]

13 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Attack dog Angie had labelled the majority of the electorate as “Scum”..,.

The majority of the votes cast at the GE did not go to the Tories, let alone their having the support of the "majority of the electorate". And she was right in calling out the mysogonistic, islamophobic, and homophobic rants of Boris.

[Mosin]

1 hour ago, Fan The Flames said:

Whilst you're right current Labour are a joke, the left of the party only care about running the party.

Your last bit is stretching it a bit, there was a small part of the question session, where questions were invited from women and people of colour. Not really a problem.

Was they not allowed to ask questions before with the men and none coloured people?? Was any questions invited from just men and people of none colour? or women and people of colour now privaliaged? curious if equal for all no matter the skin colour or sex...

Edited 28 September, 2021 by Mosin

[Fan The Flames]

24 minutes ago, Mosin said:

Was they not allowed to ask questions before with the men and none coloured people?? Was any questions invited from just men and people of none colour? or women and people of colour now privaliaged? curious if equal for all no matter the skin colour or sex...

Of course they were. I know you are trying to politicise this but there is loads of evidence that shows that men dominate these types of sessions, so if you are in the business of seeking views from the widest section of people, then this is one way to do it.

It's no different from being at a school open evening and the speaker asking if there are any questions from the children, after having loads of questions from the mums and dads.

[Mosin]

to give people of colour and women even more chance than men and white people?

ok every body ask questions...

Ok can the whiteman STFU and go sit in the corner, only People of colour and women have the right to speak now....

The end..
Seems perfectly equal.

[Fan The Flames]

You really are making a drama out of something that is quite simple.

Edited 28 September, 2021 by Fan The Flames

[edprice1984]

As someone who voted Conservative at every election from 2002 until the last two (European and GE in 2019 - and then voted Lib Dems as I wasn't voting for Corbyn's Labour policies) I believe the best thing for the country right now would be a strong, centrist opposition with a charismatic leader and clear policies. We currently have a weak sort of centrist opposition who have been unable to form any sort of policy, led by someone who is just a bit 'meh'. 

He should have the balls to tell the Momentum, Corbynistas to fuck off with their Sixth Form Policy debates (£15 per hour minimum wage; Who can have a cervix etc) and actually understand that the only way to get rid of the current clowns is to actually be a realistic government in waiting (like Blair in 1997). 

The £15 per hour min. wage is so unbelievably bonkers that even people who I know are full on supporters of Corbyn have said they think its lunacy. I have one former school mate who tried to argue that it would mean no-one would have to be on benefits etc - I then had to explain what inflation was and how this would only lead to increased automation and a sudden jump in unemployment; which if you get rid of benefits means people are even more fucked than before. 

 

[LGTL]

It is hugely frustrating that even during the current shambles, Labour can only argue about cervixes or pie in the sky minimum wage figures. Imagine the fun a competent opposition would be having at the moment. It really isn’t good for the country to have no opposition, as we’re all seeing. 

[Fan The Flames]

The amount of times trans rights takes up compared to the amount of people affected by it is completely out of sync. 

[Fan The Flames]

I have some sympathy for the £15/hr policy. We need a living wage where people don't need to claim benefits whilst working.

These benefits are seen as a subsidy to the worker when really they are a subsidy to the employer to enable them to make a nice profit.

[Fan The Flames]

44 minutes ago, edprice1984 said:

As someone who voted Conservative at every election from 2002 until the last two (European and GE in 2019 - and then voted Lib Dems as I wasn't voting for Corbyn's Labour policies) I believe the best thing for the country right now would be a strong, centrist opposition with a charismatic leader and clear policies. We currently have a weak sort of centrist opposition who have been unable to form any sort of policy, led by someone who is just a bit 'meh'. 

He should have the balls to tell the Momentum, Corbynistas to fuck off with their Sixth Form Policy debates (£15 per hour minimum wage; Who can have a cervix etc) and actually understand that the only way to get rid of the current clowns is to actually be a realistic government in waiting (like Blair in 1997). 

The £15 per hour min. wage is so unbelievably bonkers that even people who I know are full on supporters of Corbyn have said they think its lunacy. I have one former school mate who tried to argue that it would mean no-one would have to be on benefits etc - I then had to explain what inflation was and how this would only lead to increased automation and a sudden jump in unemployment; which if you get rid of benefits means people are even more fucked than before. 

Why and how would they get rid of benefits?

[revolution saint]

4 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

Of course they were. I know you are trying to politicise this but there is loads of evidence that shows that men dominate these types of sessions, so if you are in the business of seeking views from the widest section of people, then this is one way to do it.

It's no different from being at a school open evening and the speaker asking if there are any questions from the children, after having loads of questions from the mums and dads.

So it sounds like you want to treat anyone who isn't a white male differently - that's sexist and racist.  I understand your argument and I understand the intention behind it which are well meaning but it really doesn't help.  In fact it's incredibly patronising  (you've just compared people who aren't white and male to children).  Equal rights are exactly that - they're applied equally to all people regardless of any protected characteristic.  I'm no fan of the Tories but they've had two women PMs and countless minorities in their cabinets and they did that without giving them special dispensation or treatment.  The left seems to think it's only possible by treating them differently. Women and non-whites are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves without having their own little protected space.  Every single time this kind of thing goes on it distances the average voter who gets the impression that minorities are the only ones that matter. 

You want to know why people vote Brexit or for Trump?  It's exactly this kind of thing perpetrated by people who give the impression they really couldn't care less about anyone who doesn't belong to a minority.  The left chucks out accusations of racism and sexism like confetti at a wedding and then acts in ways that are obviously hypocritical. 

I know this all sounds very right wing and I'm really not but the "left" needs to get it's act together. We've had a pretty disastrous pandemic (vaccine aside), we've got Brexit problems, a buffoon of a PM, a united kingdom that looks more and more likely to split, shockingly incompetent ministers and instead of wiping the floor with them Labour are more interested in who has/hasn't got a cervix. 

[Dorchester Saint]

Amazing how many Labour voters we have in our supporter base….that’s a lot of men with cervix’s !!

[Dorchester Saint]

7 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

The majority of the votes cast at the GE did not go to the Tories, let alone their having the support of the "majority of the electorate". And she was right in calling out the mysogonistic, islamophobic, and homophobic rants of Boris.

That old chestnut. Spin it how you like, the facts are that the Conservatives gained an 80 seat majority and Labour got their biggest spanking since the 30s and are well on course for another. 

[badgerx16]

22 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

That old chestnut. Spin it how you like, the facts are that the Conservatives gained an 80 seat majority and Labour got their biggest spanking since the 30s and are well on course for another. 

I don't mind admitting that the same warped system that gave Bliar a massive majority with little more than 30% of the electorate and 43% of the vote also gifted BoJo his majority, but your claim about the "majority of the electorate" was just plain wrong - no spin required, and not an 'old chestnut'. Governments in the UK are elected with a majority of seats at Westminster yet with little over 40% of the votes cast, and with the positive affirmation of less than a third of the total electorate. It works both ways, and the 2 major parties have no interest in changing it, but true democracy it aint.

Edited 28 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[Fan The Flames]

1 hour ago, revolution saint said:

So it sounds like you want to treat anyone who isn't a white male differently - that's sexist and racist.  I understand your argument and I understand the intention behind it which are well meaning but it really doesn't help.  In fact it's incredibly patronising  (you've just compared people who aren't white and male to children).  Equal rights are exactly that - they're applied equally to all people regardless of any protected characteristic.  I'm no fan of the Tories but they've had two women PMs and countless minorities in their cabinets and they did that without giving them special dispensation or treatment.  The left seems to think it's only possible by treating them differently. Women and non-whites are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves without having their own little protected space.  Every single time this kind of thing goes on it distances the average voter who gets the impression that minorities are the only ones that matter. 

You want to know why people vote Brexit or for Trump?  It's exactly this kind of thing perpetrated by people who give the impression they really couldn't care less about anyone who doesn't belong to a minority.  The left chucks out accusations of racism and sexism like confetti at a wedding and then acts in ways that are obviously hypocritical. 

I know this all sounds very right wing and I'm really not but the "left" needs to get it's act together. We've had a pretty disastrous pandemic (vaccine aside), we've got Brexit problems, a buffoon of a PM, a united kingdom that looks more and more likely to split, shockingly incompetent ministers and instead of wiping the floor with them Labour are more interested in who has/hasn't got a cervix. 

It really isn't that big a deal. It was a forum that's whole purpose is to seek the views of as many different people as possible, so it uses techniques to achieve that. That's all it is, it's not some big leftist woke signalling, its a simple listening technique.

There is plenty of evidence to show some people from some parts of society are more submissive in these settings and have to be encouraged, that should be welcomed and not seen as a problem. So as part of a long question session where the floor is open to everyone, a small portion of the time is set aside for specific groups. Not a big deal, it should just be seen as part of the inclusively offer just like a sign language person.

A teacher at my school, always used to ask a question that had to be answered by someone at the back, no big deal. I was at a baby thing with my pregnant wife and the facilitator asked were there any questions from the men, no big deal. Were they right to help the quiet groups to speak up or were they signalling looney lefties.

On a side point, it's interesting how the press love to report on the fringe stuff at the Labour conference but never the fringe stuff at the tory conference.

[revolution saint]

11 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

It really isn't that big a deal. It was a forum that's whole purpose is to seek the views of as many different people as possible, so it uses techniques to achieve that. That's all it is, it's not some big leftist woke signalling, its a simple listening technique.

There is plenty of evidence to show some people from some parts of society are more submissive in these settings and have to be encouraged, that should be welcomed and not seen as a problem. So as part of a long question session where the floor is open to everyone, a small portion of the time is set aside for specific groups. Not a big deal, it should just be seen as part of the inclusively offer just like a sign language person.

A teacher at my school, always used to ask a question that had to be answered by someone at the back, no big deal. I was at a baby thing with my pregnant wife and the facilitator asked were there any questions from the men, no big deal. Were they right to help the quiet groups to speak up or were they signalling looney lefties.

On a side point, it's interesting how the press love to report on the fringe stuff at the Labour conference but never the fringe stuff at the tory conference.

Yeah, to be honest I didn’t actually see it and I do understand the sentiment. Just looks bad if you have someone attempting to silence someone else based on gender, ethnicity or whatever. I do think the left, for want of a better name, has a problem in that it’s perceived to be biased against your typical white male, or at least isn’t that interested in them. I’m not so sure anyone at a labour conference needs to be encouraged to speak either. Diane Abbot never seems to have any problems with shyness…..

[badgerx16]

25 minutes ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Care to elaborate precious? I mean if you think any of my post is wrong, feel free to dissect….alternatively you could of course just fuck off. 

Perhaps that comment was aimed at you because you had gone all 'Daily Express' and posted that Angela Raynor had "labelled the majority of the electorate as “Scum” along with  the usual tiresome Labour insults like “racist” “mysoginist” “homophobic” etc etc " when in fact what she said was, in describing the Prime Minister and the Cabinet, "We cannot get any worse than a bunch of scum, homophobic, racist, misogynistic, absolute vile… banana republic, vile, nasty, Etonian… piece of scum,”. As there are plenty of examples of BoJo spouting vicious bile and then refusing point blank to apologise, she has a point.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[badgerx16]

17 hours ago, Dorchester Saint said:

Amazing how many Labour voters we have in our supporter base….that’s a lot of men with cervix’s !!

And when you come out with comments such as this, it shows Whelk has a point.

Edited 29 September, 2021 by badgerx16

[Trout-Tickler]

The way things are going I can't see myself voting again...you've got cunts on the left, cunts on the right and cunts in the centre. Fuel may be scare but there's no shortage of cunts...funny old world isn't it?

[sadoldgit]

On 28/09/2021 at 11:24, Dorchester Saint said:

Hilarious watching the Labour Party destroying themselves again this week. Queen of the chavs Angie Rayner has stolen all of Keith’s thunder, despite him making the bonkers claim that men have a cervix!! Attack dog Angie had labelled the majority of the electorate as “Scum” along with  the usual tiresome Labour insults like “racist” “mysoginist” “homophobic” etc etc and one of the clowns even told white people not to put their hands up!!

Keep it up Labour, the further your party of division, ineptitude and bitterness is from No10 the better!!

Keith who and where did Rayner call the electorate “scum”? You really need to engage your brain more before posting this nonsense.

[warsash saint]

Is it any wonder the opposition are floundering when you have near every media outlet giving Boris & his corrupt bunch an easy ride whilst slamming the oppo at every opportunity. The gullible British electorate lap it up.  The Peter Stefamovic Youtube video of 30mm views is clear proof of it .

[Lighthouse]

1 minute ago, warsash saint said:

Is it any wonder the opposition are floundering when you have near every media outlet giving Boris & his corrupt bunch an easy ride whilst slamming the oppo at every opportunity. The gullible British electorate lap it up.  The Peter Stefamovic Youtube video of 30mm views is clear proof of it .

If you think Boris and Co. are getting an easy ride, that's a failure of the left wing press. When the leader of the opposition is getting into bizarre debates about whether men can have a cervix and a deputy who would rather throw petulant, playground insults than tap in the open goal of being more mature and eloquent than Boris, that's a failure of them.

[whelk]

4 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you think Boris and Co. are getting an easy ride, that's a failure of the left wing press. When the leader of the opposition is getting into bizarre debates about whether men can have a cervix and a deputy who would rather throw petulant, playground insults than tap in the open goal of being more mature and eloquent than Boris, that's a failure of them.

The fact that media are banging on about Raynor and gullible idiots swallowing it as an ‘issue’ shows exactly the bias. Who actually gives a fuck she called someone scum?
equally talking about cervixes and perpetuating this in news is exactly how the right wing press wantLabour to be perceived, as if Starmer called a press conference to announce as opposed to responding to a question. See that Dorchester twat above. 
 

I don’t deny Labour are a sham of opposition as it stands but press make huge effort that they are seen that way.

[sadoldgit]

40 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

If you think Boris and Co. are getting an easy ride, that's a failure of the left wing press. When the leader of the opposition is getting into bizarre debates about whether men can have a cervix and a deputy who would rather throw petulant, playground insults than tap in the open goal of being more mature and eloquent than Boris, that's a failure of them.

The is hardly any left wing press in this country as you know. The massed ranks of the right wing media also delight in blowing up minor items such as the cervix issue whilst ignoring the main points of Starmer’s agenda. It has happened to every Labour leader in my living memory although Murdoch actually gave Blair his backing.

[Fan The Flames]

It is true about the press, they have been banging the looney left drum for decades. But as Blair, peace be upon him, said you just have to deal with that. The hard left stuff has to be pushed to the fringe, dwarfed by more normal politics. Unfortunately the looney stuff is more front and central to the party at the moment making it easy for the press. KS is trying to move the party but the shadow of JC still looms large.

There is a battle at heart of the party and has been for decades, the hard left really believe it's their party and the right wingers are cukoos trying to take it over. Some even believe KS, Mandelson etc are neoliberal infiltrators sent in as part of a conspiracy. They believe if only the evil press allowed people to truly see the socialist offer in all its glory, they would all rush to vote for it, whilst chanting oh Jeremy Corbin.

I don't see how this gets resolved, the trouble is each side of the party really doesn't want to win an election whilst the other side is in charge and at the moment Kier is too wooden to build a momentum big enough to drown out the hard left. There is talk of a hard left split, that might do it, but I can't see it happening.

[warsash saint]

1 hour ago, Lighthouse said:

If you think Boris and Co. are getting an easy ride, that's a failure of the left wing press. When the leader of the opposition is getting into bizarre debates about whether men can have a cervix and a deputy who would rather throw petulant, playground insults than tap in the open goal of being more mature and eloquent than Boris, that's a failure of them.

How does that work when you have the BBC, Mail,  Murdoch's rag's etc etc  against The Mirror & Guardian???

[sadoldgit]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

It is true about the press, they have been banging the looney left drum for decades. But as Blair, peace be upon him, said you just have to deal with that. The hard left stuff has to be pushed to the fringe, dwarfed by more normal politics. Unfortunately the looney stuff is more front and central to the party at the moment making it easy for the press. KS is trying to move the party but the shadow of JC still looms large.

There is a battle at heart of the party and has been for decades, the hard left really believe it's their party and the right wingers are cukoos trying to take it over. Some even believe KS, Mandelson etc are neoliberal infiltrators sent in as part of a conspiracy. They believe if only the evil press allowed people to truly see the socialist offer in all its glory, they would all rush to vote for it, whilst chanting oh Jeremy Corbin.

I don't see how this gets resolved, the trouble is each side of the party really doesn't want to win an election whilst the other side is in charge and at the moment Kier is too wooden to build a momentum big enough to drown out the hard left. There is talk of a hard left split, that might do it, but I can't see it happening.

Whilst it makes perfect sense for the party to split it would also split the vote and play into the Tory’s hands even more. They need to find a way to live together under the same banner but sadly they seem to prefer to fight amongst themselves more than they do to fight the Tories. They talk about being a broad church, the problem is that the different factions are about as compatible as Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland.

[Lighthouse]

33 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

The is hardly any left wing press in this country as you know. The massed ranks of the right wing media also delight in blowing up minor items such as the cervix issue whilst ignoring the main points of Starmer’s agenda. It has happened to every Labour leader in my living memory although Murdoch actually gave Blair his backing.

 

13 minutes ago, warsash saint said:

How does that work when you have the BBC, Mail,  Murdoch's rag's etc etc  against The Mirror & Guardian???

There’re clearly enough left leaning media outlets (don’t forget the Indy) and I’m not sure how you’ve come to the conclusion that the Beeb is against the left. If they and the parties they support aren’t able to capture the imagination of the electorate then that’s on them. There’s more than enough ammunition to use against the Tories and plenty of weapons with which to fire it. If none of that resonates with the voters then that’s tough luck.

[warsash saint]

37 minutes ago, Lighthouse said:

 

There’re clearly enough left leaning media outlets (don’t forget the Indy) and I’m not sure how you’ve come to the conclusion that the Beeb is against the left. If they and the parties they support aren’t able to capture the imagination of the electorate then that’s on them. There’s more than enough ammunition to use against the Tories and plenty of weapons with which to fire it. If none of that resonates with the voters then that’s tough luck.

Kunessburg, Marr, no criticism of the govt in any news reports,  near all reports of Labour negative,  no acknowledgement of the 35mil Youtube video, formal Tory leading the Org etc etc.. pretty conclusive i think!

[Lord Duckhunter]

2 hours ago, Lighthouse said:

 

There’re clearly enough left leaning media outlets (don’t forget the Indy) and I’m not sure how you’ve come to the conclusion that the Beeb is against the left. If they and the parties they support aren’t able to capture the imagination of the electorate then that’s on them. There’s more than enough ammunition to use against the Tories and plenty of weapons with which to fire it. If none of that resonates with the voters then that’s tough luck.

What do you reckon the BBC employees voting % is, I reckon you’ll be lucky to find 20% that vote Tory. The lefts whinging about getting a fair hearing is just pony. They don’t lose elections because of bias, they lose elections because they’re out of touch with the electorate. Discussions about who has and hasn’t a cervix and calling people scum isn’t going to win over floating voters. They’re just appealing  to people who’d never vote Tory in a million years, people already on their side of the ledger. Fucking clowns.