The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[shurlock]

17 hours ago, Tamesaint said:

 

They only had 5 months to devise a fair way to estimate grades - clearly not long enough.

Dont worry nobody who wants to go to university will miss out. So what if you've had your heart set on a top institution and your results arbitrarily downgraded, there are still places at pompey and bristol poly knocking about.

 

 

Edited 17 August, 2020 by shurlock

[shurlock]

26 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

As stated above, neither name is Geographically accurate. "Spanish flu" was first detected in the USA, "German measles" was identfied as a seperate strain of Rubella by Geman researchers but was already a globally widespread disease.

I prefer the Trump virus. Interestingly in Chinese, they refer to athletes foot as Hong Kong foot.

[Tamesaint]

5 minutes ago, shurlock said:

Dont worry nobody who wants to go to university will miss out. So what if you've had your heart set on a decent institution and had your results arbitrarily downgraded, there are still places at pompey and bristol poly knocking about.

 

 

Probably best not to go to Pompey Poly. You run the risk of ending up a bigoted, arrogant fool.😀

[CB Fry]

The U-turn has been upgraded to a C-turn.

[The Cat]

Another shambles from the Government.

What was that Gavin Williamson quote? Something like "increasing A-Level grades will mean a whole generation might end up promoted beyond their capabilities."

A bit like you then you complete cretin. 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, shurlock said:

Dont worry nobody who wants to go to university will miss out. So what if you've had your heart set on a top institution and your results arbitrarily downgraded, there are still places at pompey and bristol poly knocking about.

 

 

If you had your heart set on a top institution, the liklelihood is that you will have an unconditional offer from them if you are very bright, or you will be one of the 60% of students that hasn't had their grades altered so will have achieved what you needed anyway.

I'm no economist but 60% is a pretty big number isn't it?

[Weston Super Saint]

3 hours ago, aintforever said:

"although early indications suggest that there is less transmission from children than adults."

 

 

Which sounds like excellent news for the argument for opening schools doesn't it?

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

As stated above, neither name is Geographically accurate. "Spanish flu" was first detected in the USA, "German measles" was identfied as a seperate strain of Rubella by Geman researchers but was already a globally widespread disease.

I didn’t claim they were geographically accurate, merely that diseases were named previously. 

[aintforever]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Which sounds like excellent news for the argument for opening schools doesn't it?

Well done, that's why they are re-opening in September. In March when schools closed next to nothing was known about transmission by kids. As schools tend to cause the spread of other diseases the government had no option but to be cautious shut them when they did, and teachers unions have to do what they think is best for teachers (I think not being killed by a virus qualifies).

Edited 17 August, 2020 by aintforever

[Hockey_saint]

7 hours ago, The Cat said:

Another shambles from the Government.

What was that Gavin Williamson quote? Something like "increasing A-Level grades will mean a whole generation might end up promoted beyond their capabilities."

A bit like you then you complete cretin. 

Was my first thought. He even sounds like the comic book snidey tory arsehole we all imagine.

[Fan The Flames]

I see Boris is continuing to surround himsrlf with useless fuckwits, Dido Harding whose list of achievements is as non-existent as Boris' is lined up to head the new public health body. Her failure at track and trace should discount her from the role but of course she has the ultimate qualification, she went to university with David Cameron. 

What a mess we are in, a government of useless suits led by Boris old uni chum giving contracts to companies they own and big jobs to their friends. The gammons would be spit roasting the left if it did half the stuff this bunch of entitled useless twats are up to.

[Fan The Flames]

16 hours ago, shurlock said:

Dont worry nobody who wants to go to university will miss out. So what if you've had your heart set on a top institution and your results arbitrarily downgraded, there are still places at pompey and bristol poly knocking about.

 

 

Nothing changes, I got my place at Bristol Poly on the Friday before the course started. Got me going in my career and Bristol was a good night out.

[Fan The Flames]

With regards exams, its all very simple to me but then I did get a U in A Level economics. Every year teachers predict grades and every year the actual results will be way less than the predicted grades. The is because every year a bunch of kids won't revise properly, get freaked out, have family problems etc and fall below their predicted grades. Predicted grades are what the kids are capable of, they can't predict who is going to fuck up just like the algorithm can't. 

The algorithm can get the result curve correct on paper for the whole national cohort but it can't get it right for all the thousands of individuals. So the choice is between the whole system or the individuals. 

I've done a 180 on it and now believe the algorithmic approach is wrong, but it's no surprise the government went this way as Dominic, Boris' uni chum, loves big data and doesn't give a shit about people.

[Winnersaint]

20 hours ago, aintforever said:

 teachers unions have to do what they think is best for teachers (I think not being killed by a virus qualifies).

 

They certainly do if nothing else to compensate for the gaslighting and general anti-teacher rhetoric  that pervades this country. Can't think of too many places in the world where teachers are held in such low esteem. 

[Hockey_saint]

6 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

 

They certainly do if nothing else to compensate for the gaslighting and general anti-teacher rhetoric  that pervades this country. Can't think of too many places in the world where teachers are held in such low esteem. 

Seems like a long ball tactic to eventually shout "we don't need no experts!!!".

[saint1977]

15 hours ago, Fan The Flames said:

I see Boris is continuing to surround himsrlf with useless fuckwits, Dido Harding whose list of achievements is as non-existent as Boris' is lined up to head the new public health body. Her failure at track and trace should discount her from the role but of course she has the ultimate qualification, she went to university with David Cameron. 

What a mess we are in, a government of useless suits led by Boris old uni chum giving contracts to companies they own and big jobs to their friends. The gammons would be spit roasting the left if it did half the stuff this bunch of entitled useless twats are up to.

Staggering that he has appointed that abject failure into a role she as no qualifications or experience for. Pathetic performance at Talk Talk after the data breach, and married to John Penrose who guess what a) has proposed abolishing Public Health England, established by the bloke who Boris beat in the leadership contest and b) wants to abolish the NHS altogether.

Shows you how much all of the North and Midlands seats were stupid and gullible being taken in by that red bus with an extra £350m for the NHS on the side if we left the EU. Plenty of idiots down here as well fell for it. That’s 54 times Britain was a Bellend. 
 

Maggie was ideological but actually for the most part picked her cabinet ministers on ability with the likes of Heseltine, Clarke, Gummer and Patton all being long term fixtures. Boris and his mate only seem capable of picking either ex Vote Leave drinking buddies or people they were at Uni with. You shouldn’t be running a parish council in Cornwall like that, let alone a nation.

[Hockey_saint]

3 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Staggering that he has appointed that abject failure into a role she as no qualifications or experience for. Pathetic performance at Talk Talk after the data breach, and married to John Penrose who guess what a) has proposed abolishing Public Health England, established by the bloke who Boris beat in the leadership contest and b) wants to abolish the NHS altogether.

Shows you how much all of the North and Midlands seats were stupid and gullible being taken in by that red bus with an extra £350m for the NHS on the side if we left the EU. Plenty of idiots down here as well fell for it. That’s 54 times Britain was a Bellend. 
 

Maggie was ideological but actually for the most part picked her cabinet ministers on ability with the likes of Heseltine, Clarke, Gummer and Patton all being long term fixtures. Boris and his mate only seem capable of picking either ex Vote Leave drinking buddies or people they were at Uni with. You shouldn’t be running a parish council in Cornwall like that, let alone a nation.

Gavin Williamson does sound like Norman Tebbit in Spitting Image (the irony of him being a former whip shouldn't pass anyone by either) 

 

[Winnersaint]

13 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Seems like a long ball tactic to eventually shout "we don't need no experts!!!".

There are more than a few on here that subscribe to that. You'd be amazed how many times in the last 40 years I've been told what an how easy job us teacher's have, then to be told in the next sentence that they couldn't keep their hands off the 'rude little shits!' Dead easy isn't it? Then to be lambasted for having all that paid holiday. I think I'll have a go for those who are hard of thinking or ignorant of how teachers pay is calculated. Teachers are contracted to work 190 days a year plus 5  INSET days. The maximum directed time you can be expected to work with those 195 days is 1265 hours.Teachers generally will work in excess of this 'directed time' so pay is based on that maximum hourly calculation. That total salary based on national pay scales (with minor modifications for London and the adjacent counties) is then divided in to twelve roughly equal payments rather than just term time payments. In real terms teachers are not paid for the six weeks of the summer but are paid during that six weeks for work they've already done.

[The Cat]

Don't talk sense Winner. We can't have that sort of thing here. 

My partner is a teacher. She's in a special school now so has less of the admin type stuff that she used to have. Back then she'd work an 8 to 9 hour day then at least 2 hours most evenings and often a few hours at weekends too.

My son in Year 10 often gets updates on his homework app at weekends or evenings which just shows the hours that some teachers are putting in. 

It's weird that there's a lot of negativity in this country towards teachers and that some people see them as lazy. I don't believe it's like that around the world. 

You're obviously going to get a minority who fit into that category but that's the same in most professions. 

[Hockey_saint]

9 hours ago, Winnersaint said:

There are more than a few on here that subscribe to that. You'd be amazed how many times in the last 40 years I've been told what an how easy job us teacher's have, then to be told in the next sentence that they couldn't keep their hands off the 'rude little shits!' Dead easy isn't it? Then to be lambasted for having all that paid holiday. I think I'll have a go for those who are hard of thinking or ignorant of how teachers pay is calculated. Teachers are contracted to work 190 days a year plus 5  INSET days. The maximum directed time you can be expected to work with those 195 days is 1265 hours.Teachers generally will work in excess of this 'directed time' so pay is based on that maximum hourly calculation. That total salary based on national pay scales (with minor modifications for London and the adjacent counties) is then divided in to twelve roughly equal payments rather than just term time payments. In real terms teachers are not paid for the six weeks of the summer but are paid during that six weeks for work they've already done.

I've got half a PGCE (I had a number of operations halfway through) and technically I can complete at any time but just to say, I totally agree.

[aintforever]

I admit I used to think teachers had it easy with all the holidays and that, but having had to home school my 6 year old for a couple of months this year I can appreciate what a tough job it is. I think I did Ok in the end (thanks to copious amounts of bribery) but couldn’t imagine having to control a whole class room. 

[Plastic]

[The Cat]

Oh look. The company that were working with Ofqual on the exam results is run by mates of Gove and Cummings. What a surprise.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/20/firm-linked-to-gove-and-cummings-hired-to-work-with-ofqual-on-a-levels

[Hockey_saint]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Oh look. The company that were working with Ofqual on the exam results is run by mates of Gove and Cummings. What a surprise.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/20/firm-linked-to-gove-and-cummings-hired-to-work-with-ofqual-on-a-levels

Well, we all know now who they meant when they said "taking back control"....the old school Eton boys who always have.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, The Cat said:

Oh look. The company that were working with Ofqual on the exam results is run by mates of Gove and Cummings. What a surprise.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/20/firm-linked-to-gove-and-cummings-hired-to-work-with-ofqual-on-a-levels

Are / were they invovled only with the 'communications' aspect rather than devising the algorithm or anything else that determined what results were achieved?

[Wes Tender]

1 hour ago, Hockey_saint said:

Well, we all know now who they meant when they said "taking back control"....the old school Eton boys who always have.

I think that you'll find that neither Gove nor Cummings went to Eton

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

On 18/08/2020 at 15:19, Winnersaint said:

 

Can't think of too many places in the world where teachers are held in such low esteem. 

Perhaps other countries teachers are better. 

[ecuk268]

1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Perhaps other countries teachers are better. 

They certainly have smaller class sizes.

[LGTL]

1 hour ago, ecuk268 said:

They certainly have smaller class sizes.

And probably don’t have to buy pens, pencils, paper etc out of their own money!

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, Hockey_saint said:

Well, we all know now who they meant when they said "taking back control"....the old school Eton boys who always have.

No complaints today from the GCSE students who have achieved the best results ever.

I'm sure the 'old school Eton boys' will get a pat on the back for their performance, eh?

[LGTL]

6 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

No complaints today from the GCSE students who have achieved the best results ever.

I'm sure the 'old school Eton boys' will get a pat on the back for their performance, eh?

I really don’t understand the surprise that the teacher predictions were higher then average exam results. Of course they would be, as predictions can’t take into account the many children who get into an exam hall and fluff their lines. I’ve lost count of the amount of children who produce great work in class but don’t perform in an exam. It is, without doubt, those type of children that have benefitted. But hey, we’re in a pandemic and nothing is normal.  

[hypochondriac]

21 minutes ago, LGTL said:

I really don’t understand the surprise that the teacher predictions were higher then average exam results. Of course they would be, as predictions can’t take into account the many children who get into an exam hall and fluff their lines. I’ve lost count of the amount of children who produce great work in class but don’t perform in an exam. It is, without doubt, those type of children that have benefitted. But hey, we’re in a pandemic and nothing is normal.  

Bit weird from the BBC to be comparing "exam results" with previous years as if there's any relevance at all. Or parents all over social media saying how proud they are for their children for what they'd "achieved". Personally if I were a child due to take exams this summer I'd be incredibly gutted and not see any results I've received as any sort of achievement at all. It's a very sad situation and I hope that those that want to get the opportunity to take the exams at a later date to feel a real sense of accomplishment. 

Edited 20 August, 2020 by hypochondriac

[ecuk268]

7 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Bit weird from the BBC to be comparing "exam results" with previous years as if there's any relevance at all. Or parents all over social media saying how proud they are for their children for what they'd "achieved". Personally if I were a child due to take exams this summer I'd be incredibly gutted and not see any results I've received as any sort of achievement at all. It's a very sad situation and I hope that those that want to get the opportunity to take the exams at a later date to feel a real sense of accomplishment. 

Makes you wonder what view prospective employers will take. This years cohort will be known as the ones that never actually sat any exams. 

[Weston Super Saint]

4 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Makes you wonder what view prospective employers will take. This years cohort will be known as the ones that never actually sat any exams. 

Not sure there any many propespective employers that pay a blind bit of attention to GCSE results, especially now that education has to continue for two years beyond GCSE results...

[Hockey_saint]

5 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

I think that you'll find that neither Gove nor Cummings went to Eton

 

It's the entitled type but do carry on.

[hypochondriac]

41 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Makes you wonder what view prospective employers will take. This years cohort will be known as the ones that never actually sat any exams. 

I mean if it came to it couldn't you just lie and say it was a different year? I assume students will get the same certificates as if they actually took the exams and in 5-10 years people will probably forget what year it was where the exams weren't actually done. 

[ecuk268]

Williamson is the sacrificial goat if the back-to-school situation in September goes tits up.

He can then be blamed for that as well and given the boot. If he'd gone now, his successor would have got off to a bad start.  

[saint1977]

5 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

I mean if it came to it couldn't you just lie and say it was a different year? I assume students will get the same certificates as if they actually took the exams and in 5-10 years people will probably forget what year it was where the exams weren't actually done. 

Yeah, pretty much, and by the time you put a degree certificate/Higher professional quals/work experience on top it’s smaller beer. Most employers will look at it as a balanced scorecard, I wouldn’t judge them unfairly because the average was artificially up. 

[hypochondriac]

28 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Yeah, pretty much, and by the time you put a degree certificate/Higher professional quals/work experience on top it’s smaller beer. Most employers will look at it as a balanced scorecard, I wouldn’t judge them unfairly because the average was artificially up. 

For me the saddest thing is the loss of that achievement. When I was a boy, you went to secondary school and it culminated in the exams which were what you had to show for your entire time there. For an entire year of pupils to lose that is pretty tragic. 

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Yeah, pretty much, and by the time you put a degree certificate/Higher professional quals/work experience on top it’s smaller beer. Most employers will look at it as a balanced scorecard, I wouldn’t judge them unfairly because the average was artificially up. 

Ffs

Edited 20 August, 2020 by hypochondriac

[hypochondriac]

31 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Yeah, pretty much, and by the time you put a degree certificate/Higher professional quals/work experience on top it’s smaller beer. Most employers will look at it as a balanced scorecard, I wouldn’t judge them unfairly because the average was artificially up. 

Sort the site out. 

Edited 20 August, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Wes Tender]

53 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

It's the entitled type but do carry on.

 

55 minutes ago, Hockey_saint said:

It's the entitled type but do carry on.

Go on, admit it, you got it wrong. Gove's parents were Labour voters and had to apply for a scholarship when he was in the 6th form. Cummings went to Durham School , not exactly Eton, Harrow or Winchester level. The education of these two who hold important positions in the Party are not exceptional and many in past Labour governments had similar or more illustrious and privileged educations.

[saint1977]

19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

For me the saddest thing is the loss of that achievement. When I was a boy, you went to secondary school and it culminated in the exams which were what you had to show for your entire time there. For an entire year of pupils to lose that is pretty tragic. 

Agree, but it’s the pragmatic solution in the circumstances. It’s the other stuff they’ve lost in terms of collective memory eg the proms, other rites of passage, yearbooks and shaking your teachers’ hands at the end of school/6th form and the new undergrads this term coming. Wasn’t a lot of social distancing sometimes in Freshers’ Fortnight in the mid 90s! 

[hypochondriac]

11 minutes ago, saint1977 said:

Agree, but it’s the pragmatic solution in the circumstances. It’s the other stuff they’ve lost in terms of collective memory eg the proms, other rites of passage, yearbooks and shaking your teachers’ hands at the end of school/6th form and the new undergrads this term coming. Wasn’t a lot of social distancing sometimes in Freshers’ Fortnight in the mid 90s! 

Oh I'm not saying there was much choice and like you say it's the entire social thing as well as much as anything else. 

[Fan The Flames]

5 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Bit weird from the BBC to be comparing "exam results" with previous years as if there's any relevance at all. Or parents all over social media saying how proud they are for their children for what they'd "achieved". Personally if I were a child due to take exams this summer I'd be incredibly gutted and not see any results I've received as any sort of achievement at all. It's a very sad situation and I hope that those that want to get the opportunity to take the exams at a later date to feel a real sense of accomplishment. 

That would make you a 16 year old weirdo, but that figures.

There's a 9% grade inflation, therefore most kids achieved what they deserved. Did you fail maths, is that why you are so bitter.

[hypochondriac]

8 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

That would make you a 16 year old weirdo, but that figures.

There's a 9% grade inflation, therefore most kids achieved what they deserved. Did you fail maths, is that why you are so bitter.

Blimey. Are you OK? I'm guessing you have a kid who has had to go through this. My commiserations. 

Edited 20 August, 2020 by hypochondriac

[Hockey_saint]

4 hours ago, Wes Tender said:

 

Go on, admit it, you got it wrong. Gove's parents were Labour voters and had to apply for a scholarship when he was in the 6th form. Cummings went to Durham School , not exactly Eton, Harrow or Winchester level. The education of these two who hold important positions in the Party are not exceptional and many in past Labour governments had similar or more illustrious and privileged educations.

So Gove basically went and did a kaiser Wilhelm then....sad. Either way, Cummings is in a party that....to quote him....it's on record...hate working class people and oddly enough he's behind an algorithm that totally screws their kids; you can carry on defending him and his ilk but it just makes you look like an a-typical "all lives matter......but who cares about that stupid Sudanese kid" tory.

[Fan The Flames]

2 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Blimey. Are you OK? 

Do you really think there are 16 year olds who are gutted because they couldn't sit their exams, apart from a handful of weirdo kids.

So if the difference between last year and this year is 9%, then the vast majority of kids got what they deserved. If that is not the case then please explain.

Your posts on here portray a very bitter person, am I wrong? I thought maybe being a maths failure was ground zero. Maybe it's something else, please let me know what makes you so bitter. PM if you don't want to post publically. 

[hypochondriac]

1 minute ago, Fan The Flames said:

Do you really think there are 16 year olds who are gutted because they couldn't sit their exams, apart from a handful of weirdo kids.

So if the difference between last year and this year is 9%, then the vast majority of kids got what they deserved. If that is not the case then please explain.

Your posts on here portray a very bitter person, am I wrong? I thought maybe being a maths failure was ground zero. Maybe it's something else, please let me know what makes you so bitter. PM if you don't want to post publically. 

I expect that given a choice, those youngsters who actually value an education would prefer a sense of achievement for working hard and completing their exams rather than having to live through a pandemic and losing the chance to show what they could do. As an example, my adopted sister took her gcse exams a decade ago and it was probably the proudest moment of her young life to pass everything considering what she had been through. Not every youngster is feckless and a "weirdo" for taking pride in achieving something like you appear to claim. 

We have no way of knowing whether someone got what they "deserved" or not. It's a best guess scenario and it's a real shame but as I already mentioned there isn't really a choice. I'm not really interested in your faux psychoanalysis of my forum posts but if you're asking for my opinion, I'd rather you didn't respond to a post expressing sympathy for the youngsters in such an aggressive and rude manner. 

 

[Tamesaint]

I wonder how much longer this Johnson government can continue. 

The Guardian calls this past week in government an "omnishambles".... but they of course are a "lefty" rag so they would wouldn't they? The Times is openly taking the piss out of hapless Williamson and Mail headlines told him to "get a grip".... both a bit more concerning for Johnson. The time for him to really worry however is when the Telegraph, the newspaper for which until recently he used to write and which has in the past been such a loyal supporter, talks about "the stench of incompetence" that surrounds the Government. 

The Major government had an air of incompetence which damaged the Tory brand and kept them out of Government for well over a decade. I am sure that the Tory party does not want a repeat. The Parliamentary majority is large and an election is far away so there is no need to panic but this mess will not be allowed to continue indefinitely.  The Conservative party is ruthless with its lame duck leaders and Johnson is definitely hobbling.

A sweepstake anyone on when and how the Conservatives will boot Johnson out ? I go for early next summer and it will be justified on the grounds of "ill health".

 

Edited 21 August, 2020 by Tamesaint