The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Batman]

Not sure what a general election is going to solve, I doubt the numbers will change much either way.

 

A confirmatory vote on Brexit is the obvious way forward.

 

hardly, politicians are slowly coming out to say they would not respect a leave vote if it was to win again. imagine the surprise

[aintforever]

hardly, politicians are slowly coming out to say they would not respect a leave vote if it was to win again. imagine the surprise

 

That wouldn’t matter, if you get Parliament to back a deal subject to another binding referendum, it wouldn’t have to go back to the commons for a vote.

 

If May had done that last December we would be out the EU by now, if the people still wanted it.

Edited 25 July, 2019 by aintforever

[Batman]

That wouldn’t matter, if you get Parliament to back a deal subject to another binding referendum, it wouldn’t have to go back to the commons for a vote.

 

If May had done that last December we would be out the EU by now, if the people still wanted it.

 

Like the act(s) of parliament that we have now, that politicians want to ignore/over turn?

[aintforever]

Like the act(s) of parliament that we have now, that politicians want to ignore/over turn?

 

I don’t have a clue how the legal side of it works but the bbc seem to think you can have a legally binding refurendum that automatically takes effect:

 

3. Another referendum

A further possibility is to hold another referendum.

It could have the same status as the 2016 referendum, which was legally non-binding and advisory. But some MPs want to hold a binding referendum where the result would automatically take effect - like with the 2011 referendum on changing the voting system for UK general elections.

One widely discussed option would be for a "confirmatory vote" on whatever deal is finally agreed where the public would be given the choice between accepting the existing deal (or an alternative plan) and remaining in the EU.

 

Makes sense to me.

 

1. Boris comes back from Brussels with his new Super Deal (no scapegoats anymore - this is as good as it can get).

2. The house approves it subject to a public vote (even the remainers will approve that)

3. Vote happens, the day after we are out of the EU or Brexit is toast.

[shurlock]

 

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Not sure what a general election is going to solve, I doubt the numbers will change much either way.

 

A confirmatory vote on Brexit is the obvious way forward.

 

It's not about what it would solve, it's what will happen.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Not sure what a general election is going to solve, I doubt the numbers will change much either way.

 

 

Dream on leftie boy. If BoJo does a deal with Nige it’ll be a landslide. Bring it on......

 

 

 

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[CB Fry]

Dream on leftie boy. If BoJo does a deal with Nige it’ll be a landslide. Bring it on......

 

 

 

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You know Cummings really doesn't like Farage, right? Boris's cabinet and every action he is taking so far is about annihilating Farage.

[CB Fry]

The Boris plan is to take no deal to the brink, blaming the unreasonable EU, then parliament kick out no deal, so Boris can blame intransigent parliament so then calls the election with no deal/ free trade deal etc on the ticket.

 

And, against a weak Corbyn and a strong remain Lib Dem splitting the vote, he will win that election quite nicely, back to Cameron 2015 levels anyway. He won't need the serial loser to help.

 

 

OR, equally likely, he gets some lipstick on the pig of the withdrawal agreement/future relationship, probably chucking NI under the bus in the process and gets the Del Pieros and the Stephen Kinnocks to troupe through the lobby for it. He's a better salesman than May and the ERG have been neutered by ministerial office so more likely to sing along. The WA will get sexed up like an undergraduate let lose on the Iraq dossier and a touch of Boris magic dust.

 

Brexit gets done: Brexit Party dead

Boris owns No Deal in an election: Brexit Party dead

[Lord Duckhunter]

You know Cummings really doesn't like Farage, right? Boris's cabinet and every action he is taking so far is about annihilating Farage.

 

The only way he can annihilate Nige is to deliver Brexit. Even Our Nigel will be happy with that. The country is finally heading in the right direction, hallelujah.......

 

 

 

 

 

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[shurlock]

The Boris plan is to take no deal to the brink, blaming the unreasonable EU, then parliament kick out no deal, so Boris can blame intransigent parliament so then calls the election with no deal/ free trade deal etc on the ticket.

 

And, against a weak Corbyn and a strong remain Lib Dem splitting the vote, he will win that election quite nicely, back to Cameron 2015 levels anyway. He won't need the serial loser to help.

 

 

OR, equally likely, he gets some lipstick on the pig of the withdrawal agreement/future relationship, probably chucking NI under the bus in the process and gets the Del Pieros and the Stephen Kinnocks to troupe through the lobby for it. He's a better salesman than May and the ERG have been neutered by ministerial office so more likely to sing along. The WA will get sexed up like an undergraduate let lose on the Iraq dossier and a touch of Boris magic dust.

 

Brexit gets done: Brexit Party dead

Boris owns No Deal in an election: Brexit Party dead

 

If he wins an election on the back of no deal, he'll be forced to carry it out which will almost certainly destroy the Conservative Party and the union. Politically he can suspend reality as much as he wants but the grim economic consequences of no deal will be inescapable.

 

No chance he gets a sexed up WA through Parliament, at least if he needs to rely on the ERG. 'Boris' wasn't elected by virtue of being Boris. He is simply a host for the Brexit virus and is only useful insofar as he carries out Brexit on the extreme and unrealistic terms he's helped frame (sans backstop and other elements of the WA). Beyond that he's completely expendable and won't be given any special favours.

Edited 25 July, 2019 by shurlock

[badgerx16]

The only way he can annihilate Nige is to deliver Brexit. Even Our Nigel will be happy with that. The country is finally heading in the right direction, hallelujah.......

[CB Fry]

If he wins an election on the back of no deal, he'll be forced to carry it out which will almost certainly destroy the Conservative Party and the union. Politically he can suspend reality as much as he wants but the grim economic consequences of no deal will be inescapable.

 

No chance he gets a sexed up WA through Parliament, at least if he needs to rely on the ERG. 'Boris' wasn't elected by virtue of being Boris. He is simply a host for the Brexit virus and is only useful insofar as he carries out Brexit on the extreme and unrealistic terms he's helped frame (sans backstop and other elements of the WA). Beyond that he's completely expendable and won't be given any special favours.

Yeah, I mean no-deal when its nothing of the sort - the free trade nirvana like what Canada got etc etc. A "no deal" election will be Boris promising all kinds of stuff that doesn't really mean no deal at all, but he'll get a mandate for it because he's not Corbyn and off we go.

 

This is a man who voted for the WA before anyway. He will promise a Boris brexit which will be far closer to the WA than the Peter Bone wet-dream no deal and he'll get back into Downing Street on the back of it with enough of a majority to tell the DUP and the ERG to suck it up, and the campaign will be jingoistic enough to cut off Nigel at the knees.

 

Listening to IDS on the radio this morning and has already blabbering on about all the "mini-deals" we have ready to go and all the ones will get in the bag before Halloween. Brexit might mean Brexit but No Deal has never meant and never will mean No Deal.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The Boris plan is to take no deal to the brink, blaming the unreasonable EU, then parliament kick out no deal, so Boris can blame intransigent parliament so then calls the election with no deal/ free trade deal etc on the ticket.

 

And, against a weak Corbyn and a strong remain Lib Dem splitting the vote, he will win that election quite nicely, back to Cameron 2015 levels anyway. He won't need the serial loser to help.

 

 

OR, equally likely, he gets some lipstick on the pig of the withdrawal agreement/future relationship, probably chucking NI under the bus in the process and gets the Del Pieros and the Stephen Kinnocks to troupe through the lobby for it. He's a better salesman than May and the ERG have been neutered by ministerial office so more likely to sing along. The WA will get sexed up like an undergraduate let lose on the Iraq dossier and a touch of Boris magic dust.

 

Brexit gets done: Brexit Party dead

Boris owns No Deal in an election: Brexit Party dead

 

The issue with the first part of that, which I don't necessarily disagree with, is how much of the vote Boris actually gets. I think we may well see a very hung parliament, and then it will be down to the Lib Dems to be kingmakers again (SNP will always side with Labour).

 

Now Jo Swinson has said she would never work in coalition with JC, so does that mean a potential CONLIB coalition again, with the only carrot they can dangle being a second ref?

 

It's an exciting/frightening time for politics, that's for sure.

[Wes Tender]

https://brexitcentral.com/labour-mps-should-be-careful-to-avoid-a-brexit-general-election-at-which-the-party-would-be-trounced/

[Cabbage_Face]

Labour wouldn't win a GE, if it happened.

 

As the GE would be all about Brexit, and he has Flip Flopped on his stance more times than Shurlock has said Pal.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Labour wouldn't win a GE, if it happened.

 

As the GE would be all about Brexit, and he has Flip Flopped on his stance more times than Shurlock has said Pal.

 

Don't think anyone's saying they would win a GE.

[Cabbage_Face]

Don't think anyone's saying they would win a GE.

 

Why else would everyone be soooooooooo desperate for a GE then?

[shurlock]

Labour wouldn't win a GE, if it happened.

 

As the GE would be all about Brexit, and he has Flip Flopped on his stance more times than Shurlock has said Pal.

 

Hello pal.

[ecuk268]

Apparently, when Boris was told he was going to meet the Downing St pussy, he was disappointed when it turned out to be Larry the cat.

[shurlock]

https://brexitcentral.com/labour-mps-should-be-careful-to-avoid-a-brexit-general-election-at-which-the-party-would-be-trounced/

 

http://peterjnorth.blogspot.com/2019/07/whatever-it-takes.html

[shurlock]

Yeah, I mean no-deal when its nothing of the sort - the free trade nirvana like what Canada got etc etc. A "no deal" election will be Boris promising all kinds of stuff that doesn't really mean no deal at all, but he'll get a mandate for it because he's not Corbyn and off we go.

 

This is a man who voted for the WA before anyway. He will promise a Boris brexit which will be far closer to the WA than the Peter Bone wet-dream no deal and he'll get back into Downing Street on the back of it with enough of a majority to tell the DUP and the ERG to suck it up, and the campaign will be jingoistic enough to cut off Nigel at the knees.

 

Listening to IDS on the radio this morning and has already blabbering on about all the "mini-deals" we have ready to go and all the ones will get in the bag before Halloween. Brexit might mean Brexit but No Deal has never meant and never will mean No Deal.

 

Maybe. I could see him trying to sell out the DUP if he got a large enough majority, especially as many English nationalists don't give a f**k about NI. But I suspect it would be the beginning of the end for him if he pushed through a WA-like agreement.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Why else would everyone be soooooooooo desperate for a GE then?

 

Because it may well lead to a second referendum as a Lablibsnpgrn coalition.

[Lighthouse]

Only one way to sort this out; I've called a snap general election.

[OldNick]

Labour wouldn't win a GE, if it happened.

 

As the GE would be all about Brexit, and he has Flip Flopped on his stance more times than Shurlock has said Pal.

I notice today that it said over 60% of people were more worried about the environment that Brexit. Seems to point at the raving Green party to do well.

[the saint in winchester]

Only one way to sort this out; I've called a snap general election.

 

I'd be more interested in a vox pop on whether to hold another referendum on Brexit, either (1) hold it now, (2) hold it when Boris has a deal to put to us, or (3) never - 2016 vote is binding and we don't need another one.

[Weston Super Saint]

Only one way to sort this out; I've called a snap general election.

 

Can you include an 'abstain' option for those that are bored of GEs now and know beyond any doubt that whatever the campaign promises they will never be delivered!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Can you include an 'abstain' option for those that are bored of GEs now and know beyond any doubt that whatever the campaign promises they will never be delivered!

 

It depends on what you think is being promised I guess...

[Ohio Saint]

A little American/British perspective of Boris and prawn cocktail crisps. Funny....To me anyway.

 

[video=youtube_share;dXyO_MC9g3k]

[buctootim]

The great Boris no deal plan is now revealed. ‘Leave’ but stay in the customs union and single market for two years whilst we negotiate a trade agreement. Inevitably the two years will be extended. So everything stays the same except we don’t have any say anymore and our reputation as a safe place to do business has been destroyed for nothing. What an wffing waste.

[Whitey Grandad]

The great Boris no deal plan is now revealed. ‘Leave’ but stay in the customs union and single market for two years whilst we negotiate a trade agreement. Inevitably the two years will be extended. So everything stays the same except we don’t have any say anymore and our reputation as a safe place to do business has been destroyed for nothing. What an wffing waste.

That sounds like the Withdrawal Agreement. It would take a lot more than two years to negotiate a trade agreement.

 

We might just as well Remain.

[doddisalegend]

Another potential spanner in Boris's all we need is optimism ( and a great American trade deal) and **** the Irish border plan.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/31/brexit-mess-with-good-friday-and-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

 

Any future US-UK trade deal would almost certainly be blocked by the US Congress if Brexit affects the Irish border and jeopardises peace in Northern Ireland, congressional leaders and diplomats have warned.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

The great Boris no deal plan is now revealed. ‘Leave’ but stay in the customs union and single market for two years whilst we negotiate a trade agreement. Inevitably the two years will be extended. So everything stays the same except we don’t have any say anymore and our reputation as a safe place to do business has been destroyed for nothing. What an wffing waste.

 

**** it, I'm happy with that. Better than no deal.

[Wes Tender]

The great Boris no deal plan is now revealed. ‘Leave’ but stay in the customs union and single market for two years whilst we negotiate a trade agreement. Inevitably the two years will be extended. So everything stays the same except we don’t have any say anymore and our reputation as a safe place to do business has been destroyed for nothing. What an wffing waste.

 

Fake news

[buctootim]

That sounds like the Withdrawal Agreement. It would take a lot more than two years to negotiate a trade agreement.

 

We might just as well Remain.

 

Exactly

[shurlock]

The great Boris no deal plan is now revealed. ‘Leave’ but stay in the customs union and single market for two years whilst we negotiate a trade agreement. Inevitably the two years will be extended. So everything stays the same except we don’t have any say anymore and our reputation as a safe place to do business has been destroyed for nothing. What an wffing waste.

 

Have I missed something? Has this been reported in the news?

[badgerx16]

Fake news

Have I missed something? Has this been reported in the news?

Well yes and no;

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1159866/Brexit-news-Boris-Johnson-latest-no-deal-transition-customs-union-single-market

"BORIS JOHNSON has claimed the UK may remain in the customs union and single market until 2021 as the Prime Minister discussed what his revised withdrawal agreement might look like.

He described a scenario where Britain would enter a transition period prior to reaching a free trade agreement. The former Foreign Secretary said: “Some of the changes and adjustments necessary in the run-up to October 31, and a lot of which we have already done, will be crucial anyway if we are going to come out of the customs union, come out of the single market as we must in the next couple of years.

The current transition period in the Theresa May withdrawal agreement is only a year long, but The Daily Telegraph report under the new plan, the backstop would not be part of the deal and an additional payment to Brussels might be paid."

[Cabbage_Face]

We have more chance of Shurlock not saying pal, than leaving the EU

 

 

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[doddisalegend]

Interesting view from a young ex conservative party member. I wonder if he is a one off or if others will follow his lead.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-moderate-conservatives-like-me-no-longer-have-any-place-in-the-party-h2stbk90x

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Interesting view from a young ex conservative party member. I wonder if he is a one off or if others will follow his lead.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-moderate-conservatives-like-me-no-longer-have-any-place-in-the-party-h2stbk90x

 

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It's what's happened to me and a couple of my friends - the party is no longer a party I can be part of.

[shurlock]

Interesting view from a young ex conservative party member. I wonder if he is a one off or if others will follow his lead.

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/young-moderate-conservatives-like-me-no-longer-have-any-place-in-the-party-h2stbk90x

 

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Wet, spineless, bumboy pinko.

[doddisalegend]

Wet, spineless, bumboy pinko.

First thing I thought as I read it. He is certainly not the sort LD and his coffin dodgers would want in their conservative party.

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

Majority down to 1 now...and that's likely to be 0 very soon as we're going to see defections.

 

Should this not trigger an election?

[Wes Tender]

Wet, spineless, bumboy pinko.

 

For once I agree with you. Good riddance to him. He should join the Lib Dumbs or the Greens where he belongs.

[OldNick]

It is mildly amusing that the disgraceful Farage new party is going to stop the thing he says he want as in leaving the EU. By putting the Brexit party up in the elections it will split the vote and so the Tories will not get a majority to get the Brexit. It is comical that these thickos are voting for Brexit party and so stopping the very thing they want as they are going to deprive the Tories the seats they require to push it through.

[buctootim]

Majority down to 1 now...and that's likely to be 0 very soon as we're going to see defections.

 

Should this not trigger an election?

 

The Tories are already a minority propped up only by 10 DUP votes secured by a bribe

[Wes Tender]

The Tories are already a minority propped up only by 10 DUP votes secured by a bribe

 

Whereas the official opposition are a much greater minority and could only achieve a majority by being propped up by every other MP from every other party. And God knows what level of bribery would be required for Labour to achieve that.

[shurlock]

Whereas the official opposition are a much greater minority and could only achieve a majority by being propped up by every other MP from every other party. And God knows what level of bribery would be required for Labour to achieve that.

 

Did you attend this Les? You're not the Brexiter in the aqua blue t-shirt by any chance?

 

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/politics/2019/07/31/midlands-brexit-party-mep-in-call-for-farming-subsidies-with-pictures/

[Lord Duckhunter]

It is mildly amusing that the disgraceful Farage new party is going to stop the thing he says he want as in leaving the EU. By putting the Brexit party up in the elections it will split the vote and so the Tories will not get a majority to get the Brexit. It is comical that these thickos are voting for Brexit party and so stopping the very thing they want as they are going to deprive the Tories the seats they require to push it through.

 

Simplistic pony .

 

If there was no Brexit party taking votes off the Tories we wouldn’t have Boris or a proper cabinet. We’d still have May or a May clone. Last night spelt it out clearly. Failure to deliver Brexit or water it down too much and Nigel will deprive you of dozens and dozens of seats. They don’t need to win them, just split the vote. It wasn’t fear of UKIP winning seats that panicked Dave into a referendum, it was taking votes off them to let labour in. The Brexit party voters sent a message on the night of the Euro elections, The Taffs sent another one last night. Failure to deliver Brexit & you’re finished. What’s the message you think they should send “we’ll vote for you regardless “.

 

Put it like this, is Boris sat there this afternoon thinking “I need to reach out to the remainers after last nights result”, or is he thinking “if I can deliver a meaningful Brexit the Brexit party will disappear and we will win seats like that all over the country” . If he has to go to the country before that will last nights result make an alliance with Nige more likely or less likely.

 

That said, we witnessed one of the most bone headed decisions in recent times. Who on earth thought the MP recalled to face the election, would make a good candidate. I presume the decision was made under May’s leadership, and just about sums her up.

 

 

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[Wes Tender]

It is mildly amusing that the disgraceful Farage new party is going to stop the thing he says he want as in leaving the EU. By putting the Brexit party up in the elections it will split the vote and so the Tories will not get a majority to get the Brexit. It is comical that these thickos are voting for Brexit party and so stopping the very thing they want as they are going to deprive the Tories the seats they require to push it through.

 

It is mildly amusing that the disgraceful Labour/Lib Dumbs/Greens/Plaid/SNP are going to stop the thing they want, remaining in the EU. By all of them putting up candidates for each constituency in the elections, it will split their vote, so they won't get a majority to remain in the EU. It is comical that these thickos are voting against each other, so stopping the very thing they want, as they are going to deprive their own parties of the seats they require to push it through.

 

 

If Labour eventually decide to become a Remain party, then their vote will be split by the Lib Dumbs unless they make a pact, but anyway they then will lose bags of seats in the Labour industrial heartlands.

 

 

Who's to say that the Tories and Brexit Party won't make a pact too? Failing that, it isn't beyond the wit of the electorate to figure out that they can vote tactically to support the candidate with the greatest chance of delivering the leave vote.