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The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

CB Fry

By CB Fry,
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SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election  

193 members have voted

  1. 1. SWF (Non Legally Binding) General Election

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      42
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      65
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      54
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      1
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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I am amazed that, given the amount of fiscal expertise on this thread, that SWF posters haven't been head hunted by the BoE or #11.

I reckon if posters had to come up with 5 pledges they might be more on track than the current mob

 

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of you are getting this. All that raising interest rates will do is cause a recession - it won't quell interest rates due to the rises being caused by EXTERNAL factors. 

There is nothing that can be done, this damage is due to the privatisation of the utilities, and the fact that we import so many products. 

The BOE has to be seen to be doing something, and this is the only statutory instrument they have. But it won't work. Nothing will. This is what happens when you don't make stuff, and you don't have control of your utilities. 

Unfortunately, Economics for Dummies won't help you here. 

So you don't think that restricting peoples ability to spend won't help reduce inflation? 

I agree that external factors are a big factor though. The ever weakening pound, and our reliance on imports, means that we're importing inflation. 

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revolution saint

revolution saint

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, egg said:

So you don't think that restricting peoples ability to spend won't help reduce inflation? 

I agree that external factors are a big factor though. The ever weakening pound, and our reliance on imports, means that we're importing inflation. 

Would obviously have some effect but what is it now, something like only 30% of households actually have a mortgage so it's effects aren't going to be as big as they once were and the people they affect are probably not the ones fuelling a  consumer based boom (if there even is one).  In fact, if you look at something like state pensions then it's a massive slap in the face for anyone working with a mortgage - you get to fund an inflation matching pay rise and then told you can't have one yourself and by the way here's a hike in your mortgage.

Raising interest rates is becoming an increasingly blunt instrument, especially when the situation hasn't been caused by consumer spending but supply side issues and energy prices.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I am amazed that, given the amount of fiscal expertise on this thread, that SWF posters haven't been head hunted by the BoE or #11.

You shouldn't be surprised. This forum is full of experts in all sorts of fields from healthcare, criminal justice, foreign affairs, politics, terrorist, racial relations, the breadth and depth of talent on here is astonishing.

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, aintforever said:

You are probably right. All I did, before I was piled on by the gammon crew, was pose a question about wether fiscal policy can help the fight against inflation in a fairer way. Interest rates don't exist in isolation. Maybe tax could be used to help dampen demand and lessen the pressure for higher interest rates.

It just doesn't seem fair that hardworking young families will lose their homes while there is so much money sloshing about. I'm lucky enough to have a smallish amount left on my mortgage and am on a 5 year fixed which doesn't end for a few years so interest rates won't effect me in the slightest for a while. Some people are going to have their lives ruined while the Mrs will still to be going to Next to by loads of shit she doesn't even wear.

when you say piled on by the gammon crew what you mean is a few people telling you that as usual you dont really understand what you are talking about.

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AlexLaw76

AlexLaw76

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You shouldn't be surprised. This forum is full of experts in all sorts of fields from healthcare, criminal justice, foreign affairs, politics, terrorist, racial relations, the breadth and depth of talent on here is astonishing.

And that is just Tim

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egg

egg

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of you are getting this. All that raising interest rates will do is cause a recession - it won't quell interest rates due to the rises being caused by EXTERNAL factors. 

There is nothing that can be done, this damage is due to the privatisation of the utilities, and the fact that we import so many products. 

The BOE has to be seen to be doing something, and this is the only statutory instrument they have. But it won't work. Nothing will. This is what happens when you don't make stuff, and you don't have control of your utilities. 

Unfortunately, Economics for Dummies won't help you here. 

I've re read this. Your opinion is that we can't do anything about inflation. That presumably means that you suggest that we suck it up and get on with it. That's not much of a plan mate. 

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Tamesaint

Tamesaint

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Turkish said:

You shouldn't be surprised. This forum is full of experts in all sorts of fields from healthcare, criminal justice, foreign affairs, politics, terrorist, racial relations, the breadth and depth of talent on here is astonishing.

You missed out Weston's floor sweeping skills.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
On 23/06/2023 at 14:08, egg said:

So you don't think that restricting peoples ability to spend won't help reduce inflation? 

I agree that external factors are a big factor though. The ever weakening pound, and our reliance on imports, means that we're importing inflation. 

Not in this situation, no. The price rises are not due to excess spending, it's *mainly* due to fuel and supply chain costs increasing. 

Normally I would say yes, but as you can see since the BoE started increasing interest rates it's had no effect - supply chain has been screwed since Covid, but the fuel increase since the start of the Russia war has done the most damage, and a lack of spending in the economy is not going to surpress this, it's only going to send us into recession (BTW, always seen as a very scary word, but with the Labour shortages in the UK since Brexit actually not a big deal ATM - I think they call that a Brexit benefit).

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Farmer Saint said:

Not in this situation, no. The price rises are not due to excess spending, it's *mainly* due to fuel and supply chain costs increasing. 

Normally I would say yes, but as you can see since the BoE started increasing interest rates it's had no effect - supply chain has been screwed since Covid, but the fuel increase since the start of the Russia war has done the most damage, and a lack of spending in the economy is not going to surpress this, it's only going to send us into recession (BTW, always seen as a very scary word, but with the Labour shortages in the UK since Brexit actually not a big deal ATM - I think they call that a Brexit benefit).

Raising interest rates will have long term impact.  Labour shortages very much contribute to inflation. How much to pay for Moison’s lorry now he is getting paid so much?

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
On 23/06/2023 at 14:59, egg said:

I've re read this. Your opinion is that we can't do anything about inflation. That presumably means that you suggest that we suck it up and get on with it. That's not much of a plan mate. 

Shit, isn't it, but that's what happens when all your eggs are in one basket? I think Sunak is a self-serving, caniving little shit, and I will happily criticise him for any little thing he does wrong, but he's on a hiding to nothing with this one.

BoE raising interest rates and making those with mortgages poorer isn't going to help. 

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, whelk said:

Raising interest rates will have long term impact.  Labour shortages very much contribute to inflation. How much to pay for Moison’s lorry now he is getting paid so much?

It should have a short to mid term impact. There will be a lag of course, but it tends to be about a quarter of a year to start seeing the results. Not quite sure what you are getting at with the above? 

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

It should have a short to mid term impact. There will be a lag of course, but it tends to be about a quarter of a year to start seeing the results. Not quite sure what you are getting at with the above? 

Moisin is a lorry driver.

Lorry drivers are a skillset that there is a shortage of.

Lorry drivers are paid more money than they were to entice them to work for other companies who have a shortage.

The cost of paying the lorry drivers more money is added on to the cost of goods that they are transporting around the country.

General labour shortages will have the same knock on effect - companies will compete with money to attract workers when they are short, this will raise prices of the goods and services they supply.

Ergo, labour shortages also contribute to rising inflation.

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Moisin is a lorry driver.

Lorry drivers are a skillset that there is a shortage of.

Lorry drivers are paid more money than they were to entice them to work for other companies who have a shortage.

The cost of paying the lorry drivers more money is added on to the cost of goods that they are transporting around the country.

General labour shortages will have the same knock on effect - companies will compete with money to attract workers when they are short, this will raise prices of the goods and services they supply.

Ergo, labour shortages also contribute to rising inflation.

I have never said that Labour shortages do not contribute to rising inflation though?

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

I have never said that Labour shortages do not contribute to rising inflation though?

I have never said you have said that labour shortages do not contribute to rising inflation.

I was merely answering your question about Whelk's post, that you said you weren't quite sure what he was getting at....

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Farmer Saint

Farmer Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/corporate-profits-driving-up-prices-ecb-president-christine-lagarde

So, apparently the biggest driver of inflation over the last year is corporate profits, passing on more than the increased costs to the consumer. 

Capitalism needs to give it's fucking head a wobble. 

Edited by Farmer Saint
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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Farmer Saint said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/corporate-profits-driving-up-prices-ecb-president-christine-lagarde

So, apparently the biggest driver of inflation over the last year is corporate profits, passing on more than the increased costs to the consumer. 

Capitalism needs to give it's fucking head a wobble. 

This kind of behaviour is the main reason I voted remain. I want windfall taxes, long product guarantees, clear honest labelling, no shit in rivers and on beaches, and high employment standards. The Tories primarily see voters as customers who need to be 'managed' to buy as much as possible from their mates for as little value as possible.    

Edited by buctootim
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farawaysaint

farawaysaint

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/27/corporate-profits-driving-up-prices-ecb-president-christine-lagarde

So, apparently the biggest driver of inflation over the last year is corporate profits, passing on more than the increased costs to the consumer. 

Capitalism needs to give it's fucking head a wobble. 

Not at all surprising, was obvious companies were taking the piss while crying cost increases. 

Most employees of said companies also got below inflation increases while the companies charged above inflation prices. 

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Sheaf Saint

Sheaf Saint

Posted
Posted

Not a good news day for the Tories today.

First of all the Rwanda deportation plan is deemed unlawful by the Court of Appeal (unsurprising), and now a new report accuses certain ministers of a coordinated campaign of interference into the Johnson partygate investigation (even more unsurprising).

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tdmickey3

tdmickey3

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

Not a good news day for the Tories today.

First of all the Rwanda deportation plan is deemed unlawful by the Court of Appeal (unsurprising), and now a new report accuses certain ministers of a coordinated campaign of interference into the Johnson partygate investigation (even more unsurprising).

Standard stuff from Tories... utterly incompetent people living in another world 

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ecuk268

ecuk268

Posted
Posted
On 29/06/2023 at 13:38, Sheaf Saint said:

Not a good news day for the Tories today.

First of all the Rwanda deportation plan is deemed unlawful by the Court of Appeal (unsurprising), and now a new report accuses certain ministers of a coordinated campaign of interference into the Johnson partygate investigation (even more unsurprising).

Last night's Question Time audience was selected to have significant majority of people who voted Tory at the last election.

When asked how many of them supported the Rwanda Scheme, not one person supported it.

Fiona Bruce sounded desperate to find someone who supported the policy but to no avail..

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, ecuk268 said:

Last night's Question Time audience was selected to have significant majority of people who voted Tory at the last election.

When asked how many of them supported the Rwanda Scheme, not one person supported it.

Fiona Bruce sounded desperate to find someone who supported the policy but to no avail..

The audience at Question time is always rigged. 

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Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Until I have an update from Soggy, I refuse to believe QT even aired last night. 

Been surprisingly quiet on the Cricket racism report too. Although he's limited brain capacity has been taking up this week inventing transgender friends on another thread.

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Gloucester Saint

Gloucester Saint

Posted
Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, whelk said:

Poor little Lord Dickwad is going to be so conflicted

He will be with the ‘Great Lady’s’ revolution folding in front of the Tories own eyes https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jun/30/severn-trent-chief-social-purpose-water-firms-utilities-crisis-liv-garfield-thames-water-labour-renationalisation

No wonder they were flying a desperate kite this morning in their own newspapers about a pledge to hold a referendum on immigration. Just what the country needs - another divisive and revolting campaign full of lies and awash with funding from dubious oligarchs and autocrats. The Conservative Party - all they have left is being BNP-light. Their economics have failed and people would tolerate their unpleasantness as the Tories were perceived as being better with money. Truss was their 1978/9 Winter of Discontent Labour had in that regard. Now the Thatcher pillars are falling in on them.

Edited by Gloucester Saint
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