The United Kingdom and the Death of Boris Johnson as we know it.

[Turkish]

2 minutes ago, sadoldgit said:

Stalkers gotta stalk!  I have no idea what the 10 year old joke is but from many previous posts have seen that Batman used to be a cook on a sub.

Rather than make fatuous comments about something that has nothing to do with him, telling that he has nothing to contribute other than personal digs about a historic event in Parliament and a government in a death spiral.

I suppose, being a self obsessed narcissist himself, criticising Johnson would be like criticising himself!
 

 

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

A bad day for you as well, it seems you've been caught out lying yet again. No wonder you hate Boris Johnson so much it must be like looking in the mirror and hating your reflection.

Already done that one as well dopey. 

[Weston Super Saint]

5 hours ago, Turkish said:

says the person that does nothing but post about other posters 

And Boris.

[Turkish]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

And Boris.

I notice there has been no further comment by Sog after @The Kraken outed his bullshit again. He’s a bigger liar than Boris!

[whelk]

There needs to be a named law that at some point a thread will go the way of SOG v the others and ignore will be mentioned

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, whelk said:

There needs to be a named law that at some point a thread will go the way of SOG v the others and ignore will be mentioned

Probably because he’s all over every thread spouting his bollocks 

[The Kraken]

14 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I notice there has been no further comment by Sog after @The Kraken outed his bullshit again. He’s a bigger liar than Boris!

SoG has made his claim. I’ve looked through my post history on that site (31 posts) and I can’t find any evidence of interacting with him at all, let alone to tell him what a prat he is. I guess the gif below applies to one of us.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, whelk said:

There needs to be a named law that at some point a thread will go the way of SOG v the others and ignore will be mentioned

Boris's law?

[Warriorsaint]

On 19/06/2023 at 19:37, The Kraken said:

No idea, I was only staring at her tits.

 

(I only read about it on the beeb catch up, they had a vid of the haunted pencil being put back in his box but no visuals of pompey’s finest).

Don’t let Western super Piss see you write that. Hes a feminist. Doesn’t like people looking at tits or maybe its just German tits he has a problem with. Bit racist that, I think.

[Fan The Flames]

You have to assume the Johnson has some shit on Sunak.

[whelk]

6 minutes ago, Fan The Flames said:

You have to assume the Johnson has some shit on Sunak.

Sunak’s resignation brought his premiership down by starting the mass resignations so if he had anything incendiary  then would’ve been then you would think. Abstaining is just week bs that will pass although adds to reputation of not being a leader. Clearly he isn’t, just a polished public school boy - not the same thing!

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Don’t let Western super Piss see you write that. Hes a feminist. Doesn’t like people looking at tits or maybe its just German tits he has a problem with. Bit racist that, I think.

Nope.

[Warriorsaint]

2 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Nope.

Erudite and nuanced. The levels of meaning and subtlety epoused in response are exquisite with hidden barbs just pointed enough to inflict wincing  from his opponents.

Only Shakespeare, Wilde and Swift are fit enough to joust with this learned knight of letters.

[whelk]

Hey not the Tory Government it’s the Bank of England that caused this mess. 
Desperate cunts

 

 

[The Kraken]

The Daily Mail really have gone all in with the sinking ship that is the Tory party. Its utterly bizarre to most normal folk, but I guess the blue rinse brigade that read it are either happy to be gaslighted or are just too plain dense to realise.

[Fan The Flames]

7 hours ago, whelk said:

Hey not the Tory Government it’s the Bank of England that caused this mess. 
Desperate cunts

 

 

They are also saying that interest rate are higher in America and that food inflation is higher in Sweden, so that's alright then. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Amazing that the Gov't can insist on over 3.5 million workers are given a 9.5% pay rise, then they complain that inflation is going up!

But it's all someone else's fault!

Meanwhile Labour are insisting that banks help out mortgage owners and let them have a 6 month break or a temporary move to interest only.  This will put more money in their pockets, so they will have more to spend and inflation will keep rising.  Genius.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Weston Super Saint

[egg]

1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Amazing that the Gov't can insist on over 3.5 million workers are given a 9.5% pay rise, then they complain that inflation is going up!

But it's all someone else's fault!

Meanwhile Labour are insisting that banks help out mortgage owners and let them have a 6 month break or a temporary move to interest only.  This will put more money in their pockets, so they will have more to spend and inflation will keep rising.  Genius.

Yep. Clueless all round. As hard as it is, wage inflation has to be below actual inflation otherwise the cycle won't get broken. We'll now see a 0.5% base rate rise today in an attempt to curb it, probably the same next month, then a big slowdown on property deals,l/economy generally, then recession. Earlier rate hikes, sensible pay deals, and we probably could have avoided it. 

Edited 22 June, 2023 by egg

[Warriorsaint]

4 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Amazing that the Gov't can insist on over 3.5 million workers are given a 9.5% pay rise, then they complain that inflation is going up!

But it's all someone else's fault!

Meanwhile Labour are insisting that banks help out mortgage owners and let them have a 6 month break or a temporary move to interest only.  This will put more money in their pockets, so they will have more to spend and inflation will keep rising.  Genius.

Tories in government 13 years. Labour not in government and not in government for at least 18 months.

Please do not equate the two. Zero blame for the state of the country on Labour.

Trying to blur the lines wont work.

This is all down to the Tories and their blinkered voters.

[Lord Duckhunter]

4 hours ago, egg said:

Yep. Clueless all round. As hard as it is, wage inflation has to be below actual inflation otherwise the cycle won't get broken. We'll now see a 0.5% base rate rise today in an attempt to curb it, probably the same next month, then a big slowdown on property deals,l/economy generally, then recession. Earlier rate hikes, sensible pay deals, and we probably could have avoided it. 

It seems beyond the comprehension of modern politicians that the only way to control inflation is to make people poorer. They seem to think that they can wish it away, they’re drunk on the success of printing money during the banking crisis & avoiding a disastrous recession. But there’s a huge difference between printing money to give to financial institutions & what was basically helicopter money. They seem to think they can ease us out of this, with a little bit of targeted pain here, and a little bit of targeted pain there. But unfortunately people won’t stop spending voluntary & won’t accept wage constraints voluntarily (not that I blame them). The only way to stop people spending is to take money out of the economy & the only way to control wages is to make them feel insecure in their jobs (and that’s best case scenario, the other way is for them to lose their jobs). 
 

[Weston Super Saint]

2 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Tories in government 13 years. Labour not in government and not in government for at least 18 months.

Please do not equate the two. Zero blame for the state of the country on Labour.

Trying to blur the lines wont work.

This is all down to the Tories and their blinkered voters.

#missedthepointasusual

[whelk]

6 hours ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Amazing that the Gov't can insist on over 3.5 million workers are given a 9.5% pay rise, then they complain that inflation is going up!

But it's all someone else's fault!

Meanwhile Labour are insisting that banks help out mortgage owners and let them have a 6 month break or a temporary move to interest only.  This will put more money in their pockets, so they will have more to spend and inflation will keep rising.  Genius.

Who got 9.5%?

any thoughts about wage rises in the private sector fuelling anything?
 

[Weston Super Saint]

8 minutes ago, whelk said:

Who got 9.5%?

any thoughts about wage rises in the private sector fuelling anything?
 

Everyone on minimum wage and living wage.

I'm guessing you jumped to the conclusion I meant public sector as I mentioned government, but not so.

Absolutely, private sector wage rises also fuel inflation - but there are no laws dictating that they MUST do so, as there are governing NMW.  It's likely that the majority of companies that were forced to implement that increase ARE private companies...

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Weston Super Saint

[Farmer Saint]

Unfortunately this is not the way to deal with this type of inflation - they're using the good old 1970's rhetoric of increasing interest rates as there is "too much" money in the economy. There isn't. 

The issue is that due to external factors, the war in Ukraine being one, the increase in fuel prices is being felt across the whole economy, through costs increasing. There is nothing you can do about this, except to wait until those costs to subside. That should bring about a fall back to the natural levels of product pricing, but not sure we're going to see this as this would lead is into negative inflation, which brings it's own issues. 

The reason we're being affected so much is due to our reliance on imported energy and an abundance of imported goods. This would not be an issue if we actually created our own energy, or made our own stuff, but this country doesn't do either enough. 

The only thing the BoE is doing, is driving down house prices (which will have a small effect on the inflation measure that includes these), but apart from that, nothing else. People aren't frivolously spending money, so increasing interest rates is not the instrument to use. 

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[Whitey Grandad]

48 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

It seems beyond the comprehension of modern politicians that the only way to control inflation is to make people poorer. They seem to think that they can wish it away, they’re drunk on the success of printing money during the banking crisis & avoiding a disastrous recession. But there’s a huge difference between printing money to give to financial institutions & what was basically helicopter money. They seem to think they can ease us out of this, with a little bit of targeted pain here, and a little bit of targeted pain there. But unfortunately people won’t stop spending voluntary & won’t accept wage constraints voluntarily (not that I blame them). The only way to stop people spending is to take money out of the economy & the only way to control wages is to make them feel insecure in their jobs (and that’s best case scenario, the other way is for them to lose their jobs). 
 

The economy is out of control.

[Weston Super Saint]

1 hour ago, Farmer Saint said:

Unfortunately this is not the way to deal with this type of inflation - they're using the good old 1970's rhetoric of increasing interest rates as there is "too much" money in the economy. There isn't. 

The issue is that due to external factors, the war in Ukraine being one, the increase in fuel prices is being felt across the whole economy, through costs increasing. There is nothing you can do about this, except to wait until those costs to subside. That should bring about a fall back to the natural levels of product pricing, but not sure we're going to see this as this would lead is into negative inflation, which brings it's own issues. 

The reason we're being affected so much is due to our reliance on imported energy and an abundance of imported goods. This would not be an issue if we actually created our own energy, or made our own stuff, but this country doesn't do either enough. 

The only thing the BoE is doing, is driving down house prices (which will have a small effect on the inflation measure that includes these), but apart from that, nothing else. People aren't frivolously spending money, so increasing interest rates is not the instrument to use. 

I agree, that is true to a certain extent.

The banks aren't helping this time around as they are stubbornly refusing to raise the interest rates for savers (profiteering?), so there is no incentive for money to be taken out of the washing machine.

Headlines like this suggest that there is still a certain amount of 'frivolous' spending going on.

[Farmer Saint]

13 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

I agree, that is true to a certain extent.

The banks aren't helping this time around as they are stubbornly refusing to raise the interest rates for savers (profiteering?), so there is no incentive for money to be taken out of the washing machine.

Headlines like this suggest that there is still a certain amount of 'frivolous' spending going on.

People are still spending, but I don't think it's out of control. Butter isn't £5 a pot because we're buying too much of it. 

It's largely irrelevant - it's not going to make a difference to inflation - it's just not related to the reason we've got inflation.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by Farmer Saint

[whelk]

Economies are complex beasts and if there were a simple way to consistently manage we’d have unearthed it by now

[egg]

7 hours ago, Warriorsaint said:

Tories in government 13 years. Labour not in government and not in government for at least 18 months.

Please do not equate the two. Zero blame for the state of the country on Labour.

Trying to blur the lines wont work.

This is all down to the Tories and their blinkered voters.

No blame for labour, but the point Weston makes is that that labour approach would probably have been even more inflationary. He's probably right. For what it's worth, I'd rather see labour fuck it up than this lot though - enough is enough. 

[egg]

4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

The economy is out of control.

Inflation is rampant. Interest rates need to go up to quell it. The squeeze from that will inevitably force recession. Borrowing is through the roof, but few people or businesses will put their hands up to pay more tax to help, and nobody wants to see more cuts.

It's a proper mess, and there is no magic solution unfortunately. 

[badgerx16]

10 minutes ago, egg said:

......The squeeze from that will inevitably force recession.

GM will lose that one straw that he clings to when trying to justify Brexit.

[aintforever]

If they want to calm down spending surely the best thing to do would be to tax the well off rather than just hike interest rates? Interest rate rises just fuck everyone over and I'm sure those worst hit will not be the ones spending most at the moment anyway so there will be a negligible effect on inflation.

[Weston Super Saint]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

If they want to calm down spending surely the best thing to do would be to tax the well off rather than just hike interest rates? Interest rate rises just fuck everyone over and I'm sure those worst hit will not be the ones spending most at the moment anyway so there will be a negligible effect on inflation.

Great plan.

Only the rich spend money.  That's why places like Next have increased their profit predictions - always full of toffs talking about the hunt in those places 

 

[aintforever]

1 minute ago, Weston Super Saint said:

Great plan.

Only the rich spend money.  That's why places like Next have increased their profit predictions - always full of toffs talking about the hunt in those places 

 

Would be more targeted than interest rates.

[egg]

2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Would be more targeted than interest rates.

It won't work is the point he makes. Stopping the wealthy buying less tellies and cars will not reduce inflation. 

[Weston Super Saint]

Just now, egg said:

It won't work is the point he makes. Stopping the wealthy buying less tellies and cars will not reduce inflation. 

Let's not mention the fact that the wealthy rarely buy those things, which is why they are wealthy!

[Weston Super Saint]

5 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Would be more targeted than interest rates.

How is a bumper windfall of tax going to reduce interest rates, that is madness.

Haven't the Govt recently received way more tax income than they were expecting, yet here we are with higher interest rates....

[aintforever]

11 minutes ago, Weston Super Saint said:

How is a bumper windfall of tax going to reduce interest rates, that is madness.

Haven't the Govt recently received way more tax income than they were expecting, yet here we are with higher interest rates....

They keep raising interest rates yet here we are with high inflation.

Just doesn't seem right that hardworking young people are going to end up with their homes repossessed, when richer, older people with little or no mortgage are going to just carry on splashing the cash. There must be a less crude way of taking money out of people's pockets.

Edited 22 June, 2023 by aintforever

[The Cat]

It's lucky Steve is so rich inflation doesn't affect him because otherwise he'd have been hiking up the annual subscription to Saintsweb and further contributing to the cost of living crisis.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

If they want to calm down spending surely the best thing to do would be to tax the well off rather than just hike interest rates? Interest rate rises just fuck everyone over and I'm sure those worst hit will not be the ones spending most at the moment anyway so there will be a negligible effect on inflation.

Dear God….

 

 

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

1 hour ago, aintforever said:

They keep raising interest rates yet here we are with high inflation.

Just doesn't seem right that hardworking young people are going to end up with their homes repossessed, when richer, older people with little or no mortgage are going to just carry on splashing the cash. There must be a less crude way of taking money out of people's pockets.

Hikes don’t just take money out of the economy by squeezing mortgage holders, they take money out of circulation by encouraging savers. 
 

I don’t think you quite understand the consequences of making the BoE independent. It’s the only lever they have to pull. 

[aintforever]

2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Dear God….

 

 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/0520b466-b21a-4ee8-ba3c-91cbe1b1c6fd

From last year….

‘The IMF said on Tuesday that Rishi Sunak should bring forward planned tax increases to limit the risk of persistently high inflation, even though it would tighten the financial squeeze on Britain’s households. In its annual assessment of the UK economy, the fund said the chancellor should spare poorer households and impose higher income and wealth taxes on richer people. The IMF’s view is that wages and spending will not be squeezed as much as the Bank of England thinks, so there is a sizeable risk inflation stays too high for too long. With inflation forecast to rise to 7 per cent in the coming months, the IMF warned that without higher taxes, the BoE would be forced to raise interest rates significantly, with a serious risk of tipping the economy into recession next year.’

Edited 22 June, 2023 by aintforever

[Turkish]

6 minutes ago, aintforever said:

https://www.ft.com/content/0520b466-b21a-4ee8-ba3c-91cbe1b1c6fd

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesbroughel/2023/03/24/why-raising-taxes-is-a-misguided-approach-to-inflation-control/
 

[Weston Super Saint]

11 hours ago, aintforever said:

They keep raising interest rates yet here we are with high inflation.

Just doesn't seem right that hardworking young people are going to end up with their homes repossessed, when richer, older people with little or no mortgage are going to just carry on splashing the cash. There must be a less crude way of taking money out of people's pockets.

Dear God.

[Weston Super Saint]

7 hours ago, aintforever said:

https://www.ft.com/content/0520b466-b21a-4ee8-ba3c-91cbe1b1c6fd

From last year….

‘The IMF said on Tuesday that Rishi Sunak should bring forward planned tax increases to limit the risk of persistently high inflation, even though it would tighten the financial squeeze on Britain’s households. In its annual assessment of the UK economy, the fund said the chancellor should spare poorer households and impose higher income and wealth taxes on richer people. The IMF’s view is that wages and spending will not be squeezed as much as the Bank of England thinks, so there is a sizeable risk inflation stays too high for too long. With inflation forecast to rise to 7 per cent in the coming months, the IMF warned that without higher taxes, the BoE would be forced to raise interest rates significantly, with a serious risk of tipping the economy into recession next year.’

Dear God.

Still struggling aren't you!  The 'tax increase' you refer to there relates to EVERYONE, not just the rich.  This will have an even more significant effect on the 'hardworking young people' who are already struggling with their mortgages, leave them with even less money and increase the number of repossessions.

Maybe read the bit in bold again and try and think what is happening a year after that article was written....

[egg]

7 hours ago, aintforever said:

https://www.ft.com/content/0520b466-b21a-4ee8-ba3c-91cbe1b1c6fd

From last year….

‘The IMF said on Tuesday that Rishi Sunak should bring forward planned tax increases to limit the risk of persistently high inflation, even though it would tighten the financial squeeze on Britain’s households. In its annual assessment of the UK economy, the fund said the chancellor should spare poorer households and impose higher income and wealth taxes on richer people. The IMF’s view is that wages and spending will not be squeezed as much as the Bank of England thinks, so there is a sizeable risk inflation stays too high for too long. With inflation forecast to rise to 7 per cent in the coming months, the IMF warned that without higher taxes, the BoE would be forced to raise interest rates significantly, with a serious risk of tipping the economy into recession next year.’

That was last year. Back then tax hikes may have helped but it wasn't done and we're now where we are. Tax hikes now won't break the inflationary cycle that we're in. Recession is now almost inevitable. 

Edited 23 June, 2023 by egg

[Farmer Saint]

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of you are getting this. All that raising interest rates will do is cause a recession - it won't quell interest rates due to the rises being caused by EXTERNAL factors. 

There is nothing that can be done, this damage is due to the privatisation of the utilities, and the fact that we import so many products. 

The BOE has to be seen to be doing something, and this is the only statutory instrument they have. But it won't work. Nothing will. This is what happens when you don't make stuff, and you don't have control of your utilities. 

Unfortunately, Economics for Dummies won't help you here. 

[Warriorsaint]

16 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Dear God….

 

 

 

Font of all knowledge returns!

[aintforever]

7 hours ago, egg said:

That was last year. Back then tax hikes may have helped but it wasn't done and we're now where we are. Tax hikes now won't break the inflationary cycle that we're in. Recession is now almost inevitable. 

You are probably right. All I did, before I was piled on by the gammon crew, was pose a question about wether fiscal policy can help the fight against inflation in a fairer way. Interest rates don't exist in isolation. Maybe tax could be used to help dampen demand and lessen the pressure for higher interest rates.

It just doesn't seem fair that hardworking young families will lose their homes while there is so much money sloshing about. I'm lucky enough to have a smallish amount left on my mortgage and am on a 5 year fixed which doesn't end for a few years so interest rates won't effect me in the slightest for a while. Some people are going to have their lives ruined while the Mrs will still to be going to Next to by loads of shit she doesn't even wear.

Edited 23 June, 2023 by aintforever

[whelk]

3 hours ago, Farmer Saint said:

Unfortunately I don't think a lot of you are getting this. All that raising interest rates will do is cause a recession - it won't quell interest rates due to the rises being caused by EXTERNAL factors. 

There is nothing that can be done, this damage is due to the privatisation of the utilities, and the fact that we import so many products. 

The BOE has to be seen to be doing something, and this is the only statutory instrument they have. But it won't work. Nothing will. This is what happens when you don't make stuff, and you don't have control of your utilities. 

Unfortunately, Economics for Dummies won't help you here. 

There are so many factors and seems you may not be understanding it fully

[badgerx16]

I am amazed that, given the amount of fiscal expertise on this thread, that SWF posters haven't been head hunted by the BoE or #11.