Universal Credit

[sadoldgit]

Has anyone been through this process successfully? My wife applied for credit at the beginning of May and we are still trying to get her payments sorted. It has been the most unbelievable bureaucratic phaff so far. I am not claiming myself but keep getting called in to meetings. They have all my income details but still I get asked for more documents. They won’t let me email stuff to them. They seem to make it as difficult as possible in the hope that we will just give up. My wife has to keep an online journal of everything she does, which showed she applied for 80 jobs, but still we are waiting. We don’t even know how much we are likely to get. I have to log on to my own page too even though I am not claiming. As she was in college we were given a £490 loan to help out but the bills are racking up and my pension doesn’t go anywhere near covering them.

The system sucks. God knows how people cope who don’t have internet access.

I’d be interested to know if anyone has been able to navigate the system successfully.

[rooney]

My daughter had the same problem. Having been told initially she qualified for UC, after going through similar situations as yourself, she was told she did not qualify. This was after she was previously claiming Working Tax Credits and Childrens Tax Credits so they previously had all her details.

[badgerx16]

UC is merely a larger iteration of the cock-ups that PIP and Student Loans have been. They all suffer from a lack of common sense and logic, and the idea that UC is an entirely online process, based as it is on a Government IT system, makes it very hard to decide if the resulting problems are cock-up or conspiracy, ( as in the PIP system intentionally deterring claimants ).

Edited 17 July, 2019 by badgerx16

[benjii]

Yep.

 

Not me personally but an acquaintance who is very bright and switched on had to switch to UC from the old system and had to deal with all manner of utter melts and illogical rules. In addition, there are massive delays which actually perpetuate and exacerbate problems rather than help people.

 

The question of how much money people should get, is one debate. But if you're proceeding on the basis that people are entitled to something then the system for getting that something should be logical, as efficient as possible and fair. It is none of the above.

[sadoldgit]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought I had stumbled in to Kafkaesque world but it is helpful to know that we are not the only ones struggling with the system. The film I, Daniel Blake was spot on!

[the saint in winchester]

I am not well up on UC and hope not to make its acquaintance.

Friend of mine, also a Saints fan, has been forced to switch from his disability benefit to UC. They have told him he is fit to return to work. He is in a wheelchair, can't walk and hasn't been able to work in 30 years, yet they say he can get an office job (he has no qualifications for office work, was in shop floor high street retail). Every pound his wife earns results in 64p in the pound removed from his benefit. She is supposed to be his carer.

In this case, it's desperate. He has involved his MP in the hope of getting their support, but it's heartbreaking. I am thinking of forming a consortium of working friends. He needs financial support.

[Manuel]

And there's a big difference between being deemed fit for some sort of work and actually being able to get a job. It's a competitive world out there.

 

Perhaps the local government should start employing those who they deem fit. Maybe they could do the disability assessing.

[Cabbage_Face]

Personally it was about time something changed, I was made redundant and didn’t work for a few years and had to call upon government help, this was before UC, I remember my weekly meetings at the job centre, utter shambles and anyone could’ve blagged they were looking for jobs and at one point I was offered a job and the lady sat there and worked out if I was finically better off not working.

 

This seemed utterly stupid.

 

Sadly it’s a abused system, and the minority have ruined it for the majority.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[whelk]

No personal experience but makes sense to have it simplified rather than multiple allowances - they just never seem to be able to get the bureaucratic part right.

Recent expose on how scammers were fleecing vulnerable claimants and the clerical staff could see the fraud but seemingly no process to stop it.

 

Problem is this needs to be right as can be such serious situations for people, Unfortunately if same sh1t was happening to more affluent influential types I’m sure it would be addressed and resolved with significant resources allocated but to the likes of Rees-Mogg its a case of ‘let them eat cake’

 

Also sure there is committed experienced staff in DWP who know how to fix it and saw the issues coming but would have been ignored by PWC, Deloitte or whoever took millions in consultancy for designing this so well.

 

Although tbf passports, DVLA, tax stuff, is pretty slick now and got that digitally right.

[whelk]

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-algorithmic-austerity-cant-be-ended-by-money-11765341

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The idea was decent, the implementation was ****ing rubbish.

[sadoldgit]

No personal experience but makes sense to have it simplified rather than multiple allowances - they just never seem to be able to get the bureaucratic part right.

Recent expose on how scammers were fleecing vulnerable claimants and the clerical staff could see the fraud but seemingly no process to stop it.

 

Problem is this needs to be right as can be such serious situations for people, Unfortunately if same sh1t was happening to more affluent influential types I’m sure it would be addressed and resolved with significant resources allocated but to the likes of Rees-Mogg its a case of ‘let them eat cake’

 

Also sure there is committed experienced staff in DWP who know how to fix it and saw the issues coming but would have been ignored by PWC, Deloitte or whoever took millions in consultancy for designing this so well.

 

Although tbf passports, DVLA, tax stuff, is pretty slick now and got that digitally right.

 

I have just renewed my passport online and it worked brilliantly. I received a number of updates by text and it arrived exactly when they said it would. Mind you, for £75 you expect a good service, but they clearly have got this and as you say, others things right too. We are still getting nowhere fast. I am still receiving messages to log onto my page and look at messages in my “journal” even though I am not applying. Why they can’t ask my wife to provide any info they need about me I don’t know. If I don’t comply we are told that it could affect the outcome. They are doubling the amount of bureaucracy in all cases where one of the claimants is in a relationship. Fortunately my wife has now found another job but we had 5 months without a second income (she left her previous job during sick leave after being bullied by her boss and being advised to get out by her doctor) and during that time we have racked up a lot of debt. It seems the quickest you can get some money is 5 weeks. We have been waiting much longer. I don’t know how one parent families cope. The people in the centre are pleasant and try to be helpful, but the caseworkers are in other offices and you can’t get to communicate with them other than through your journal online. And what does Universal Credit even mean? At least Jobseekers Allowance did what it said on the tin.

[benjii]

I have just renewed my passport online and it worked brilliantly. I received a number of updates by text and it arrived exactly when they said it would. Mind you, for £75 you expect a good service, but they clearly have got this and as you say, others things right too. We are still getting nowhere fast. I am still receiving messages to log onto my page and look at messages in my “journal” even though I am not applying. Why they can’t ask my wife to provide any info they need about me I don’t know. If I don’t comply we are told that it could affect the outcome. They are doubling the amount of bureaucracy in all cases where one of the claimants is in a relationship. Fortunately my wife has now found another job but we had 5 months without a second income (she left her previous job during sick leave after being bullied by her boss and being advised to get out by her doctor) and during that time we have racked up a lot of debt. It seems the quickest you can get some money is 5 weeks. We have been waiting much longer. I don’t know how one parent families cope. The people in the centre are pleasant and try to be helpful, but the caseworkers are in other offices and you can’t get to communicate with them other than through your journal online. And what does Universal Credit even mean? At least Jobseekers Allowance did what it said on the tin.

 

Good luck with it. I hope your wife can get some compensation for the bullying too? Sounds like a constructive dismissal?

[whelk]

Good luck with it. I hope your wife can get some compensation for the bullying too? Sounds like a constructive dismissal?

 

SOG is a pacifist but if someone was bullying my missus out of her job I’d be looking to maim

[sadoldgit]

Good luck with it. I hope your wife can get some compensation for the bullying too? Sounds like a constructive dismissal?

 

Thank you. We did consider it briefly but decided it was best to put it behind us and move on. My wife had a nasty accident a couple of months ago which left her with a bad case of concussion which has only just sorted itself out so didn’t want any extra grief. The situation was made worse by the fact that there were only two other people in the business and they were in a relationship together. They also use our local and we have a number of mutual friends so it’s all been a bit messy.

 

I took what is hopefully the last bit of paperwork into the office yesterday. The lady I saw was very helpful and sympathetic but once again was a barrier between us and my wife’s caseworker who works in another office miles away and who we can only communicate with via our online journal page. I know we hear lots of stories about people abusing the benefits system but given our experience so far it seems a miracle if anyone gets anything out of UC. I do have sympathy for those who have to deal with the public face to face though. Whilst most people have been well behaved during our visits to the UC office there have been a few who have kicked off. There are always two or three burly guys wondering around the office just in case, which makes for a slightly oppressive atmosphere. Hopefully we are nearly done now!

[sadoldgit]

Feck! Found out today that my wife is entitled to £0. They don’t take into account your outgoings including mortgage repayments. They only help with rent payments. WTF? No one called us to explain we just found out through the online journal. What is the point of NI payments when you can’t get anything back when you need it? I get a pension but it is not enough to cover the mortgage and the bills. UC is a f***ing disgrace.

[Batman]

Feck! Found out today that my wife is entitled to £0. They don’t take into account your outgoings including mortgage repayments. They only help with rent payments. WTF? No one called us to explain we just found out through the online journal. What is the point of NI payments when you can’t get anything back when you need it? I get a pension but it is not enough to cover the mortgage and the bills. UC is a f***ing disgrace.

 

because other people need free stuff.

[sadoldgit]

Helpful. Hardly free if you have been paying NI contributions all of your life.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Well, let's hope he carries through on this:

 

Labour's Chris Bryant asks the new prime minister to scrap the five-week wait to receive the first payment under the universal credit benefits system.

 

He says this provision puts many people into debt as soon as they are moved onto the new system from the old benefits scheme.

 

In reply, Boris Johnson says those migrating on to universal credit can now get a "100% advance" on future payments on day one.

 

Backing the changes to the system, he says the old welfare provisions "kept people trapped on benefits".

[Batman]

Helpful. Hardly free if you have been paying NI contributions all of your life.

 

I know. But there are people less well off than you, who probably have not done a days honest work in their life, that need free stuff. Someone has to pay for it I am afraid

Edited 25 July, 2019 by Batman

[whelk]

Well, let's hope he carries through on this:

 

Labour's Chris Bryant asks the new prime minister to scrap the five-week wait to receive the first payment under the universal credit benefits system.

 

He says this provision puts many people into debt as soon as they are moved onto the new system from the old benefits scheme.

 

In reply, Boris Johnson says those migrating on to universal credit can now get a "100% advance" on future payments on day one.

 

Backing the changes to the system, he says the old welfare provisions "kept people trapped on benefits".

 

If SOG’s missus had received something she might not have had the motivation to get a job,

 

Anyway SOG why haven’t you retired?

[sadoldgit]

If SOG’s missus had received something she might not have had the motivation to get a job,

 

Anyway SOG why haven’t you retired?

 

My wife is 53. She has always worked and wishes to continue to work. She has found another job but we are thousands of pounds in debt for the period when she was looking for work. I am retired but we cannot live on my pension alone and I am doing part time work to help pay the bills. We would have been entitled to £498 a month ( hardly a Kings ransom) but because it is income based and I have a pension we are not entitled to anything. Long gone are the days when you as a couple could live on one wage, but they don’t consider that. Nor are they interested in your mortgage repayments yet they will cover rent?

[hypochondriac]

Presumably because a mortgage repayment is a luxury rather that an essential. Otherwise you'd be in a situation where you would ve entitled to higher payments simply because you pay a lot on your mortgage.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Edit

[Unbelievable Jeff]

My wife is 53. She has always worked and wishes to continue to work. She has found another job but we are thousands of pounds in debt for the period when she was looking for work. I am retired but we cannot live on my pension alone and I am doing part time work to help pay the bills. We would have been entitled to £498 a month ( hardly a Kings ransom) but because it is income based and I have a pension we are not entitled to anything. Long gone are the days when you as a couple could live on one wage, but they don’t consider that. Nor are they interested in your mortgage repayments yet they will cover rent?

 

Do you get a state pension as well? I would have thought that as a baby boomer of all people you should be able to live off one wage? Did you retire early?

[sadoldgit]

Do you get a state pension as well? I would have thought that as a baby boomer of all people you should be able to live off one wage? Did you retire early?

 

I get £149 per week state pension. I have a few others as well but they don’t add up to what we need. The joys of being taken to the cleaners by my first wife in the divorce settlement. Any system should be means tested. This system isn’t. I know everyone assumes that people take the benefits system for a ride, but after our experience it is hard to see how anyway gets enough to support them. It has been a sobering experience going through this process. At no time have we felt supported. It is a soulless and almost faceless process which reduces you to a bunch of numbers in a computer system. I have sat and listened to a number of people who have come into the office and it really is a tick box exercise. At least my wife is employable and has been able to find another job, but you see people coming through the doors who look less able to find work and you have to wonder how their lives will be stuck in this dreadful system.

[whelk]

Watching ‘I am Kirsty’. Depressing knowing it is probably reality for many,

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I get £149 per week state pension. I have a few others as well but they don’t add up to what we need. The joys of being taken to the cleaners by my first wife in the divorce settlement. Any system should be means tested. This system isn’t. I know everyone assumes that people take the benefits system for a ride, but after our experience it is hard to see how anyway gets enough to support them. It has been a sobering experience going through this process. At no time have we felt supported. It is a soulless and almost faceless process which reduces you to a bunch of numbers in a computer system. I have sat and listened to a number of people who have come into the office and it really is a tick box exercise. At least my wife is employable and has been able to find another job, but you see people coming through the doors who look less able to find work and you have to wonder how their lives will be stuck in this dreadful system.

 

I don't think people think you can take the system for a ride anymore TBH.

[rallyboy]

To crack the nut of one-in-however-many who are cheating the system, we appear to have taken an industrial sledge hammer and we're now pushing people who need help, into poverty - and in some cases, beyond.

When kids are going through school bins for food, should we perhaps have a look at our political direction of travel?

[sadoldgit]

Panorama special on Universal Credit on now for those interested.

[OldNick]

Panorama special on Universal Credit on now for those interested.

Can anybody explain to me what UC is and who it covers etc?

SOG I read through the posts and not knowing about the system the little I glean is that you are paying a mortgage and so wonder why the nation is not contributing to that. I can only assume that in theory we would be paying for your potential gain on your asset.If it is a negative equity Im sorry for that but I did think that benefits were a safety net not a way of life. I have been fortunate that since I left school at 16 I have used my own initiative to earn a living and never gone to the state. Iam looking forward to getting a pension in 6 or 7 years although it keeps getting pushed into the future and am not sure I will ever see a penny. I recall when I first started it used to be National Insurance and pension contributions but the last part was changed some years ago.

I assume as your wife is 53 and you are drawing a pension she is considerably younger than you, it is tough for her knowing she has the burden to find the shortfall and I commiserate, but I assume you do have the option of selling your asset of a home and downsizing, or is that option not there?

[sadoldgit]

We are ok now thanks Nick. Mrs SOG found another job a while back and with some part time work that I have found we are keeping our heads above water. We have amassed some debt though from earlier in the year which will take a while to settle. Before she found work we did consider selling our house but the market is very flat here and has been for a while. Some close neighbours have had a similar property on the market for well over a year and despite dropping the price several times still haven’t sold. Having seen the system first hand it is really not fit for purpose. Labour have said they will scrap it. The LibDems have said they will reform it. Certainly something needs to be done. Mrs SOG was also supposed to get counselling sessions and that process was rubbish. They are just overwhelmed and you can’t get to see anyone promptly. It was suggested we paid for private sessions but just couldn’t afford that option. Fortunately she is working with people who appreciate her and has managed to put the bullying episode from her last job behind her, but it did make her feel suicidal and the lack of support from the care services was very worrying. A guy on the programme said that the welfare system was previously open to abuse and did need reforming but has gone too far the other way. It isn’t providing anywhere near the support it should in a time frame that is helpful. The system is dehumanising. People interviewed on the programme had to go to the CAB when UC let them down. One guy had to wait a year to have his appeal heard. We have been fortunate and have come through relatively unscathed, but it is crushing many people. It was good to see the BBC put this out just before polling day but there hasn’t been enough made of it in the campaigns and unfortunately it has got lost in the fog of Brexit.

[sadoldgit]

The BBC have just started a series on Universal Credit which is worth a look. Strange that they featured a homeless guy last night who was going through the process but it didn’t show how he managed to claim without having obvious access to a PC.

 

Another minor moan. These are public buildings, often you have to wait there for long periods of time. There are toilets for the staff but none for public use. Not great if you are desperate whilst waiting to see someone. What you also didn’t see last night was the security men walking the floors. Perhaps they wanted people to think the offices are all warm and friendly.

[Weston Super Saint]

The BBC have just started a series on Universal Credit which is worth a look. Strange that they featured a homeless guy last night who was going through the process but it didn’t show how he managed to claim without having obvious access to a PC.

 

Another minor moan. These are public buildings, often you have to wait there for long periods of time. There are toilets for the staff but none for public use. Not great if you are desperate whilst waiting to see someone. What you also didn’t see last night was the security men walking the floors. Perhaps they wanted people to think the offices are all warm and friendly.

 

Don't all libraries have public computers that can access the internet for free?

 

The people I have dealt with in North Somerset who are on UC have always said good things about it. Yes, it can be a pain to set up and yes, you have to wait six weeks for the first payment to come in, but they have all said that it is a much fairer system than the old one. It even encourages people to work whilst still able to claim the benefit which is monumental for zero hour contracts where the work can be sporadic as it guarantees an income when the work is not available.

[shurlock]

Don't all libraries have public computers that can access the internet for free?

 

The people I have dealt with in North Somerset who are on UC have always said good things about it. Yes, it can be a pain to set up and yes, you have to wait six weeks for the first payment to come in, but they have all said that it is a much fairer system than the old one. It even encourages people to work whilst still able to claim the benefit which is monumental for zero hour contracts where the work can be sporadic as it guarantees an income when the work is not available.

 

The plural of anecdote isn't data pal.

[Weston Super Saint]

The plural of anecdote isn't data pal.

 

Cool story bro'

[shurlock]

Cool story bro'

 

Try do some reading then (assuming you don't misunderstand it as you're prone to do) - the IFS and NAO are good places to start. HTH pal.

[sadoldgit]

Don't all libraries have public computers that can access the internet for free?

 

The people I have dealt with in North Somerset who are on UC have always said good things about it. Yes, it can be a pain to set up and yes, you have to wait six weeks for the first payment to come in, but they have all said that it is a much fairer system than the old one. It even encourages people to work whilst still able to claim the benefit which is monumental for zero hour contracts where the work can be sporadic as it guarantees an income when the work is not available.

 

Maybe he did go to a library but they didn’t show how he dealt with that problem. Not everybody is computer literate. I am glad that you know people who are happy with the system. There seem to be a great many who are not.

[hypochondriac]

I presume this is the programme. Whilst I'm aware that this sort of thing doesn't happen in every case, it's hard to have too much sympathy for someone who gets a load of money and then think the priorities are buying a new phone, getting her hair done and going out for posh meals. I do feel that cases like this make the case for food stamps or a voucher scheme quite strongly to save people from themselves. Dishing out large sums to individuals with poor impulse control doesn't tend to end well.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-51389481/universal-credit-i-went-wild-and-it-hit-me-like-a-ton-of-bricks

Edited 6 February, 2020 by hypochondriac

[sadoldgit]

Spoken like a true Tory. The vast majority of people needing help are deserving cases. There will always be those who have caused there own problems but by focussing on them you are ignoring the real problem. How would you feel if you couldn’t feed your daughter and had to rely on foodbanks? You have never been through the process so if someone who has tells you that it is not fit for purpose, perhaps try and see it from their prospective rather than just pick holes just because some people have not managed themselves well.

[hypochondriac]

Spoken like a true Tory. The vast majority of people needing help are deserving cases. There will always be those who have caused there own problems but by focussing on them you are ignoring the real problem. How would you feel if you couldn’t feed your daughter and had to rely on foodbanks? You have never been through the process so if someone who has tells you that it is not fit for purpose, perhaps try and see it from their prospective rather than just pick holes just because some people have not managed themselves well.

I'm sorry but where did I question the idea that the vast majority of people are not deserving cases? I don't think it's a good idea to give people big lump sums of cash as an advance because in a number of cases that's going to get them in worse financial difficulty. That's not a controversial statement, it's about recognising weaknesses and tailoring support to ensure that it is most effective. You read what, you want to rather than what is actually written.

[sadoldgit]

It is a massive generalisation and it is also not generally true. If people were getting “vast sums of money” perhaps it would solve many problems. The main issue is that once you have gone through a very convoluted process, you have to wait for 5 weeks before you get anything (if you get anything). In that time many people end up running up big debts which they have to pay off, leaving them short. Even when they get their payment many people still don’t have enough to live on, and not everybody goes off and buys expensive phones. If the system was ok there wouldn’t be such a fuss made over it since it’s launch. It is not ok. It does not work as it should. People who work there say that. Listen to the people who know and not the Daily Mail.

[hypochondriac]

It is a massive generalisation and it is also not generally true. If people were getting “vast sums of money” perhaps it would solve many problems. The main issue is that once you have gone through a very convoluted process, you have to wait for 5 weeks before you get anything (if you get anything). In that time many people end up running up big debts which they have to pay off, leaving them short. Even when they get their payment many people still don’t have enough to live on, and not everybody goes off and buys expensive phones. If the system was ok there wouldn’t be such a fuss made over it since it’s launch. It is not ok. It does not work as it should. People who work there say that. Listen to the people who know and not the Daily Mail.

 

You've just gone off on a tangent talking about something that I never spoke about. I haven't said the system is good, I haven't said its working, I haven't spoken about the issue you want to discuss. My point was clear, there are some people on benefits who have difficulties with things like budgeting as shown on this programme. It is not a sensible idea imo to give advances of cash as one lump sum and then take it away over a long period later because it encourages people to make lavish purchases that they can't afford.