Theresa May and the death of the Tory Party

[LGTL]

He isn't wrong though. You are.

 

‘Pony’

[sadoldgit]

I think the point being that if we had a better opposition, they would have buried the Tories long ago and not gifted them the power to put us in the position in which we now find ourselves.

 

It still doesn’t alter the fact that the Tories, and the people who voted for them, are 100% responsible for the state of the country. Both parties clearly have deep ideological divisions which have been exacerbated by Brexit but only one party is in power and it doesn’t really matter how weak or strong the opposition is, the Government do exactly what they want to do. Neither party is in a position of strength so long as Brexit remains unsorted. In the meantime we have a lame duck Government limping along and continuing to run the country into the ground thanks to the money they found down the back of the sofa to buy the support of the DUP.

 

And Jeff, what are you on about? They couldn’t join forces against Johnson because one of them (or Johnson) was always going to be voted out this evening. If one of them had stood down (pointless exercise) it would not have made the slightest difference to Johnson given the support he has. It was always only about the 2 who are left standing, well, not really as Johnson seems to have had it sown up from day 1.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Is it a prerequisite of yours to reply to every single post with the word pony?

 

Makes you look like a right tit, especially when you’re wrong.

 

Complete pony

 

 

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[LGTL]

Complete pony

 

 

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I’d have been more annoyed if that wasn’t your reply.

[whelk]

What, by indiscriminately bombing civilian areas? Not sure you understand what the current state of play is in Iran if you think going in will make that better...but we all know you like to see babies dead anyway.

 

That’s more like it Jeff. It’s how I rate my interest in the news generally

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It still doesn’t alter the fact that the Tories, and the people who voted for them, are 100% responsible for the state of the country. Both parties clearly have deep ideological divisions which have been exacerbated by Brexit but only one party is in power and it doesn’t really matter how weak or strong the opposition is, the Government do exactly what they want to do. Neither party is in a position of strength so long as Brexit remains unsorted. In the meantime we have a lame duck Government limping along and continuing to run the country into the ground thanks to the money they found down the back of the sofa to buy the support of the DUP.

 

And Jeff, what are you on about? They couldn’t join forces against Johnson because one of them (or Johnson) was always going to be voted out this evening. If one of them had stood down (pointless exercise) it would not have made the slightest difference to Johnson given the support he has. It was always only about the 2 who are left standing, well, not really as Johnson seems to have had it sown up from day 1.

 

Hunt and Gove v Johnson would have more chance than just Hunt against Johnson in the membership vote, you plum.

 

There wouldn't have been a vote this evening if they had joined forces.

Edited 20 June, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[badgerx16]

He isn't wrong though. You are.

Pony.

 

( Apologies LGTL for the unintentional repetition of your response. Didn't notice it. )

Edited 20 June, 2019 by badgerx16

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hunt and Gove v Johnson would have more chance than just Hunt against Johnson in the membership vote, you plum.

 

God you really are simple.

 

Hunt- no chance

Gove/Hunt- no chance

Gove- Slight chance.

 

In what way on earth is teaming up with a remainer going to get Gove enough leave votes?

 

The pinkos stop Boris campaign looks to have been as successful as their Brexit policy. Still by winning the MP’s vote & then smashing Hunt in the members vote, he’s got a huge mandate. Contrast that with Steptoe who wasn’t wanted by a vast majority of the PLP.

 

 

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Edited 20 June, 2019 by Lord Duckhunter

[whelk]

Why is the ballot private?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That’s more like it Jeff. It’s how I rate my interest in the news generally

 

It does seem you have an unhealthy obsession with kids TBH mate - every post you write to me seems to be about them. May want to get that looked at before it gets out of hand.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why is the ballot private?

 

None of your business

 

 

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[Unbelievable Jeff]

God you really are simple.

 

Hunt- no chance

Gove/Hunt- no chance

Gove- Slight chance.

 

The pinkos stop Boris campaign looks to have been as successful as their Brexit policy. Still by winning the MP’s vote & then smashing Hunt in the members vote, he’s got a huge mandate. Contrast that with Steptoe who wasn’t wanted by a vast majority of the PLP.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I'm not saying they had a chance, I said it would be a bigger chance as they have Gove there, which I'm sure you'll agree. Gove was never going to get through tonight as the Boris supporters were going to create a Hunt swing.

[whelk]

It does seem you have an unhealthy obsession with kids TBH mate - every post you write to me seems to be about them. May want to get that looked at before it gets out of hand.

 

You have such a good read on people ‘mate’.

Interesting projection about kids though as you were obsessing for quite some time interested in mine.

How’s your little spreadsheet coming along planning your show-off purchase? Although I feel gullible that I may have been taken in and suspect you may have a Clio

[whelk]

None of your business

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I’m intrigued who spoilt their ballot.

[shurlock]

I’m intrigued who spoilt their ballot.

 

Probably Rory.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

You have such a good read on people ‘mate’.

Interesting projection about kids though as you were obsessing for quite some time interested in mine.

How’s your little spreadsheet coming along planning your show-off purchase? Although I feel gullible that I may have been taken in and suspect you may have a Clio

 

TBH, not had any decent feedback on either this site or the Contractor site, seems people aren't that good at answering questions about tax. Shame, as I only signed up to that forum to ask the question.

 

Odd that you think that is a show off purchase - I wouldn't say that someone spending £30k on a car over 5 years is showing off - but hey, maybe it is to someone like you.

 

I apologise if you felt I was showing off though, when I was just asking for advice - it certainly was never meant to come across in that way.

 

What's wrong with having a Clio anyway?

[whelk]

TBH, not had any decent feedback on either this site or the Contractor site, seems people aren't that good at answering questions about tax. Shame, as I only signed up to that forum to ask the question.

 

Odd that you think that is a show off purchase - I wouldn't say that someone spending £30k on a car over 5 years is showing off - but hey, maybe it is to someone like you.

 

I apologise if you felt I was showing off though, when I was just asking for advice - it certainly was never meant to come across in that way.

 

It didn’t impress me but I understood your motives.

Time for plan B maybe if internet people aren’t bothered enough to answer your call for help.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It didn’t impress me but I understood your motives.

Time for plan B maybe if internet people aren’t bothered enough to answer your call for help.

 

It looks like you don't have a very good read on people either then mate...but you're right, perhaps I need a new accountant. It's something I've flirted with but always seems such a pain. Or maybe I should have posted it somewhere like the Lounge, so more people could have seen it and possibly given advice, rather than the forum that's gets the least traffic on the whole site.

Edited 20 June, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[whelk]

Clio is not for real men

[Batman]

It still doesn’t alter the fact that the Tories, and the people who voted for them, are 100% responsible for the state of the country. Both parties clearly have deep ideological divisions which have been exacerbated by Brexit but only one party is in power and it doesn’t really matter how weak or strong the opposition is, the Government do exactly what they want to do. Neither party is in a position of strength so long as Brexit remains unsorted. In the meantime we have a lame duck Government limping along and continuing to run the country into the ground thanks to the money they found down the back of the sofa to buy the support of the DUP.

 

And Jeff, what are you on about? They couldn’t join forces against Johnson because one of them (or Johnson) was always going to be voted out this evening. If one of them had stood down (pointless exercise) it would not have made the slightest difference to Johnson given the support he has. It was always only about the 2 who are left standing, well, not really as Johnson seems to have had it sown up from day 1.

 

when I read tripe like that, I can only assume you are incredibly ill-travelled.

Have you ventured out of Maidstone lately?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Clio is not for real men

 

Oh well, maybe I'll have to upgrade it at some point to a man's car then.

[Wes Tender]

Hunt and Gove v Johnson would have more chance than just Hunt against Johnson in the membership vote, you plum.

 

There wouldn't have been a vote this evening if they had joined forces.

 

I repeat, you have not the faintest clue about the Tory Party membership. Why wouldn't there have been a final vote had they joined forces? At no stage during the process would the two of them combined have been able to stop Boris and I repeat, the candidates might have influence over their followers, but they don't command their votes, so there is no guarantee that the supporters of either one preferred the other over Boris. And which one of them would have given way to the other anyway?

 

You're in a hole over this, so stop digging.

[Wes Tender]

Probably Rory.

 

My guess is that the two spoilt ballots earlier were Ken Clark and Grievous.

[Lord Duckhunter]

My guess is that the two spoilt ballots earlier were Ken Clark and Grievous.

 

Rumours it was May & Grievance. Personally I don’t buy it, May would have voted Hunt or Gove (don’t forget Gove gave her cover over the WA). Greivance, maybe but he would have made a pious declaration about it. More likely someone like Fatty Soames and maybe Stewart having a hissy fit.

 

Say what you like about Clarke, but he’s a pretty straight forward sort of bloke, can’t see it.

 

 

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[Lord Duckhunter]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Tamesaint]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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.... and that is why the Conservatives will no longer be the "natural party of Government".

 

Kiss goodbye to Broad Church / "One nation" Conservatism and kiss goodbye to Government.

[shurlock]

.... and that is why the Conservatives will no longer be the "natural party of Government".

 

Kiss goodbye to Broad Church / "One nation" Conservatism and kiss goodbye to Government.

 

Turkeys voting for Christmas.

[aintforever]

He created the mess, he can sort it out.

 

It’s gonna be funny as **** watching him come back from Brussels with nothing but the same deal as May.

[whelk]

.... and that is why the Conservatives will no longer be the "natural party of Government".

 

Kiss goodbye to Broad Church / "One nation" Conservatism and kiss goodbye to Government.

 

Quite funny they don’t realise that most normal people view them as sad fcks, Quite embarrassing and surprised it isn’t cross hairs not crosses.

LD is self confessed coward but no surprise loves a tough meme.

[whelk]

He created the mess, he can sort it out.

 

It’s gonna be funny as **** watching him come back from Brussels with nothing but the same deal as May.

 

Maybe we will all chuckle when his staged call by his team to his mobile rings on cue to help reinforce what bluff old eccentric fellow he is.

 

Agree though funny now no hiding place.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I repeat, you have not the faintest clue about the Tory Party membership. Why wouldn't there have been a final vote had they joined forces? At no stage during the process would the two of them combined have been able to stop Boris and I repeat, the candidates might have influence over their followers, but they don't command their votes, so there is no guarantee that the supporters of either one preferred the other over Boris. And which one of them would have given way to the other anyway?

 

You're in a hole over this, so stop digging.

 

What are you on about, stopping Boris - and I am Tory membership. I'll explain what I'm getting at though, if you like.

 

1. With 3 candidates remaining, Gove and Hunt agree to join forces.

2. Hunt takes potential Chancellor role, with Gove as potential PM.

3. 6pm vote doesn't take place and they go straight to membership vote.

 

Tell me why that doesn't work. Just because you've misunderstood, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. It was also mooted with Gove & Stewart before Stewart was knocked out.

 

Now, are you going to actually explain the difference between a FTA and the WA trade deal? No, didn't think so.

Edited 20 June, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Nolan]

What are you on about, stopping Boris - and I am Tory membership. I'll explain what I'm getting at though, if you like.

 

1. With 3 candidates remaining, Gove and Hunt agree to join forces.

2. Hunt takes potential Chancellor role, with Gove as potential PM.

3. 6pm vote doesn't take place and they go straight to membership vote.

 

Tell me why that doesn't work. Just because you've misunderstood, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. It was also mooted with Gove & Stewart before Stewart was knocked out.

 

Now, are you going to actually explain the difference between a FTA and the WA trade deal? No, didn't think so.

It would have worked, as most Conservative members wouldn't vote for Gove or Hunt. (as evidenced by Conhomes survey)

 

They couldn't even stand up for the country in a cabinet of the worst PM in living memory.

[shurlock]

It would have worked, as most Conservative members wouldn't vote for Gove or Hunt. (as evidenced by Conhomes survey)

 

They couldn't even stand up for the country in a cabinet of the worst PM in living memory.

 

What does this gibberish mean?

[Nolan]

What does this gibberish mean?

It's in plain English. If you struggle with that, no wonder you can't understand the reasons we want to leave or the severely detrimental aspects of the WA.

[shurlock]

It's in plain English. If you struggle with that, no wonder you can't understand the reasons we want to leave or the severely detrimental aspects of the WA.

 

No because it sounds like it was written by a petulant child with no understanding of how politics or cabinet responsibility works never mind the constraints of Brexit.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It would have worked, as most Conservative members wouldn't vote for Gove or Hunt. (as evidenced by Conhomes survey)

 

They couldn't even stand up for the country in a cabinet of the worst PM in living memory.

 

It would or wouldn't have worked? We're talking about the process, it's not if they could beat Boris or not, as I've already said its unlikely. However, they'd have a better chance on a joint ticket, as it would have meant Gove in the final two.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

It's in plain English. If you struggle with that, no wonder you can't understand the reasons we want to leave or the severely detrimental aspects of the WA.

 

Apart from the backstop, which we've all agreed, is ********, including Shurlock, what are the other detrimental aspects of the WA?

[Wes Tender]

It would or wouldn't have worked? We're talking about the process, it's not if they could beat Boris or not, as I've already said its unlikely. However, they'd have a better chance on a joint ticket, as it would have meant Gove in the final two.

 

I see that you've ignored the advice I gave you, to stop digging yourself deeper into the hole you made for yourself with this stupid assertion that somehow Gove and Hunt should have formed some sort of alliance to beat Boris.

[shurlock]

Meanwhile Nolan’s little crush, Dominic Raab, threw his toys out of the pram, exercised zero influence behind the scenes, got his sums for his irresponsible tax promises wrong (despite Nolan being a fiscal conservative) and came across as an undemocratic oddball in the leadership debates

[Nolan]

Apart from the backstop, which we've all agreed, is ********, including Shurlock, what are the other detrimental aspects of the WA?

That it sets up a new behind closed door joint commission that replicates the EU comission.

 

That commission is comprised of equal members of EU and UK representatives and an "impartial" member.

 

Therefore behind closed doors a majority of non UK representatives could veto anything the UK wanted to do in perpetuity.

 

We would get tied in to a treaty without any way of an elected parliament getting out of it.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I see that you've ignored the advice I gave you, to stop digging yourself deeper into the hole you made for yourself with this stupid assertion that somehow Gove and Hunt should have formed some sort of alliance to beat Boris.

 

Mate, if I'm going to be taking advice, I certainly wouldn't be taking it from a racist, anti-semite like yourself.

 

Can you please point out where I said the alliance would beat Boris? Ta love.

[shurlock]

Apart from the backstop, which we've all agreed, is ********, including Shurlock, what are the other detrimental aspects of the WA?

 

 

No I don’t think the backstop is particularly b*****ks - it’s a necessary evil but has a clear rationale and both sides have incentives to end it as soon as credible alternatives can be found.

[shurlock]

That it sets up a new behind closed door joint commission that replicates the EU comission.

 

That commission is comprised of equal members of EU and UK representatives and an "impartial" member.

 

Therefore behind closed doors a majority of non UK representatives could veto anything the UK wanted to do in perpetuity.

 

We would get tied in to a treaty without any way of an elected parliament getting out of it.

 

Likewise a majority of non-EU representatives.

[benjii]

Does anyone remember that wind-up act that used to post on here? Can’t remember his name but it was in the Lowe/Crouch/ Wilde days. He used to call them Lord Lowe, the Quisling Wilde and the Insect Crouch.

 

Anyway, that’s British politics now, that is.

[shurlock]

Mate, if I'm going to be taking advice, I certainly wouldn't be taking it from a racist, anti-semite like yourself.

 

Can you please point out where I said the alliance would beat Boris? Ta love.

 

Les really showed his true colours citing politicalite as a source. I’m really disappointed in him. I expected better.

[Nolan]

Likewise a majority of non-EU representatives.

Pertaining to British interests, rather than EU interests. It should always be 100% non EU representatives.

 

That is what independence/sovereignty looks like.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That it sets up a new behind closed door joint commission that replicates the EU comission.

 

That commission is comprised of equal members of EU and UK representatives and an "impartial" member.

 

Therefore behind closed doors a majority of non UK representatives could veto anything the UK wanted to do in perpetuity.

 

We would get tied in to a treaty without any way of an elected parliament getting out of it.

 

OK, so what is so bad about being tied into that treaty until we've agreed a trade agreement? What would it mean for the UK?

[badgerx16]

That it sets up a new behind closed door joint commission that replicates the EU comission.

 

That commission is comprised of equal members of EU and UK representatives and an "impartial" member.

 

Therefore behind closed doors a majority of non UK representatives could veto anything the UK wanted to do in perpetuity.

 

We would get tied in to a treaty without any way of an elected parliament getting out of it.

Isn't the WA for a fixed term, with the option for one mutually agreed extension ?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

No I don’t think the backstop is particularly b*****ks - it’s a necessary evil but has a clear rationale and both sides have incentives to end it as soon as credible alternatives can be found.

 

Absolutely it's necessary, but I wouldn't say it's anything other than a ******** way of doing it. Unfortunately, with technology as it is, it is the only current option.

 

That's the issue with Brexit being completely at odds with the GFA.

[Wes Tender]

What are you on about, stopping Boris - and I am Tory membership. I'll explain what I'm getting at though, if you like.

 

1. With 3 candidates remaining, Gove and Hunt agree to join forces.

2. Hunt takes potential Chancellor role, with Gove as potential PM.

3. 6pm vote doesn't take place and they go straight to membership vote.

 

Tell me why that doesn't work. Just because you've misunderstood, it doesn't mean I'm wrong. It was also mooted with Gove & Stewart before Stewart was knocked out.

 

Now, are you going to actually explain the difference between a FTA and the WA trade deal? No, didn't think so.

 

You really are a bit of a fruit loop on this little plot. If you really were a Party member, then you would realise that there is a firm procedure on how leadership elections are run. You little unicorn fantasy doesn't cut it, I'm afraid. Whether they formed an alliance or not, they still didn't have a majority, even together. And for some reason, you assume that Boris just disappears from the final vote, despite having led the campaign vote throughout.

 

If you are indeed a Conservative Party member, no doubt Hunt will have your vote.

 

I'll indulge you regarding your lack of comprehension of the difference between a FTA and the Withdrawal Agreement. The Free Trade Agreement is what the name suggests. An agreement to trade freely together, without tariffs. The Withdrawal Agreement is a proposed agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union on how to implement Brexit. It covers such matters as money, citizens rights, border arrangements and dispute resolution.

 

Does this now penetrate?