LD Sports

[benjii]

Wan't the McQuarrie Bank facility simply the normal cashflow borrowing that most PL clubs undertake to cover early season outgoings until payments are received from the PL ?

 

Yes.

[Badger]

I personally want to just see what happens with the new sponsor before jumping to conclusions. The people at the top of the club are business people not amateurs. I'm pretty sure the club would have done important background research on potential new sponsors/commercial partners before agreeing to the deal. I'm just hoping that Gao will back Ralph in the transfer market this summer.

 

Are you sure on that ?

 

In the past we've known or been able to piece together a bit of a track record, whether Chairman of Secure Retirement listed on the Stock Exchange, a banker specialising in sports investments, or even Ralph Krueger's time in ice hockey, sports business etc. But what have either Toby Steele, or the Sellman character (can't remember full name) done to give confidence ?

[benjii]

I personally want to just see what happens with the new sponsor before jumping to conclusions. The people at the top of the club are business people not amateurs. I'm pretty sure the club would have done important background research on potential new sponsors/commercial partners before agreeing to the deal. I'm just hoping that Gao will back Ralph in the transfer market this summer.

 

Who exactly do you think is "at the top of the club"? Apart from Ralph H and the football staff, they are mostly unremarkable salary-men. None of them has a stellar CV.

 

Ralph K and Reed have gone and not been replaced. Who's in charge of overall football strategy? Wee Ross?

 

Goa is silent and doesn't seem to have any money. Nelly is the only director of the ultimate UK holding company. The rest of our board are accountants and compliance officers. I think you'd be surprised how sparse the non-footballing side of things is.

 

To be honest, this is the most worried I've been about the club since Mickey Fialka and Tommac.

[DT]

Nightmare scenario remains Poch to United and Ralph to Spurs when he realises quite how badly the club is set up and run

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Batman]

Nightmare scenario remains Poch to United and Ralph to Spurs when he realises quite how badly the club is set up and run

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would Spurs go for our manager this summer?

[Saint Billy]

Nightmare scenario remains Poch to United and Ralph to Spurs when he realises quite how badly the club is set up and run

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think Ralph needs a good full season of reasonable success to turn other clubs heads.

 

But unfortunately the nightmare scenario for me atm is not the manager but the ownership of the club which could have much more serious implications.

[Gordon Mockles]

Yes, I do. What's happening to prove him right?

 

If anyone wants to invest billions in property development in Southampton, they need to buy some land and then cosy up to the council.

 

Buying local football club: utterly utterly irrelevant.

 

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

 

It’s actually not. Owning the local football club gives you good leverage with the council for real estate. Especially for riverside land or areas near the docks which could, say, be developed as a super casino or some other leisure facility benefitting from the cruise liner proximity.

 

I have always believed Gao has little interest in the club & sport, but much interest in real estate. That’s his background. He bought the club to expand his empire. The new theories about developing trade routes into the country from China is also interesting & not to be readily dismissed but we have been trading via the port for decades so that is nothing new.

 

Developing a football club and whatever land they propose in their plans of redevelopment and bringing in Chinese investment to the city will be highly regarded by the local council and they will be falling over themselves to acquire investment in the city. Who wouldn’t?! Usually the council f*** everything up by thinking that Southampton is Monaco & the most highly sought-after city in the world and go all Theresa May in negotiating and get greedy & unrealistic & most sensible people run a mile.

[CB Fry]

It’s actually not. Owning the local football club gives you good leverage with the council for real estate. Especially for riverside land or areas near the docks which could, say, be developed as a super casino or some other leisure facility benefitting from the cruise liner proximity.

 

I have always believed Gao has little interest in the club & sport, but much interest in real estate. That’s his background. He bought the club to expand his empire. The new theories about developing trade routes into the country from China is also interesting & not to be readily dismissed but we have been trading via the port for decades so that is nothing new.

 

Developing a football club and whatever land they propose in their plans of redevelopment and bringing in Chinese investment to the city will be highly regarded by the local council and they will be falling over themselves to acquire investment in the city. Who wouldn’t?! Usually the council f*** everything up by thinking that Southampton is Monaco & the most highly sought-after city in the world and go all Theresa May in negotiating and get greedy & unrealistic & most sensible people run a mile.

So the council are "falling over themselves" to attract investment but if an Arabian investor turned up with £500m to redevelop an area near the docks to create a giant entertainment complex and arena, the council would turn them away because they don't happen to own Saints?

 

Righto.

 

What gets leverage is, you know, actual money and actual intent and then a bit of softer stuff like a corporate PR. Quite frankly lobbing the council £xxx to sponsor a festival or city event, or just taking councillors on a jolly old "fact finding mission" is a far far more effective leverage strategy than the irrelevance of buying the football club.

 

There was a story a while ago about a Chinese property developer promising to spend £1bn in Sheffield and he had their council "falling over themselves" and trumpeting the deal. Total number of football club purchases to achieve this leverage: zero.

Edited 16 May, 2019 by CB Fry

[benjii]

It’s actually not. Owning the local football club gives you good leverage with the council for real estate. Especially for riverside land or areas near the docks which could, say, be developed as a super casino or some other leisure facility benefitting from the cruise liner proximity.

 

I have always believed Gao has little interest in the club & sport, but much interest in real estate. That’s his background. He bought the club to expand his empire. The new theories about developing trade routes into the country from China is also interesting & not to be readily dismissed but we have been trading via the port for decades so that is nothing new.

 

Developing a football club and whatever land they propose in their plans of redevelopment and bringing in Chinese investment to the city will be highly regarded by the local council and they will be falling over themselves to acquire investment in the city. Who wouldn’t?! Usually the council f*** everything up by thinking that Southampton is Monaco & the most highly sought-after city in the world and go all Theresa May in negotiating and get greedy & unrealistic & most sensible people run a mile.

 

That makes no sense.

[trousers]

Can someone remind me which specific Premier League owners test Gao would have failed if the current rules had been in place before he took over the club? Cheers

[benjii]

Can someone remind me which specific Premier League owners test Gao would have failed if the current rules had been in place before he took over the club? Cheers

 

Coukd have been F.1.6, I guess:

 

"A Person shall be disqualified from acting as a Director and no Club shall be permitted to have any Person acting as a Director of that Club if I'm the reasonable opinion of the Board, he has engaged in conduct outside

the United Kingdom that would constitute an offence of the sort described in Rules F.1.5.2 or F.1.5.3, if such conduct had taken place in the United Kingdom, whether or not such conduct resulted in a Conviction."

 

F.1.5.2 says:

 

"he has a Conviction (which is not a Spent Conviction) imposed by a court of the United Kingdom or a competent court of foreign jurisdiction in respect of any offence involving any act which could reasonably be considered to be dishonest (and, for the avoidance of doubt, irrespective of the actual sentence imposed)".

 

Obviously, I have no idea or evidence suggesting whether any offence was ever committed. Just speculating over the rules.

Edited 16 May, 2019 by benjii

[benjii]

NB. "Director" includes shadow director and people exercising control so you can't simply side-step the rule by appointing patsies as directors.

[trousers]

Cheers Benjii

 

So, what I don't get is that if not complying with these laws makes someone unfit to own/run a football club then, regardless of when the law was brought in, as of 'today' we have an owner that the current Premier League rules deem unfit? I guess the question I'm therefore asking is why (on Earth) wouldn't new rules apply retrospectively? Surely someone is either 'fit' to run a football club or they're not, regardless of an arbirtrary moment in time when they were judged....?

 

#analogy klaxon#

Just because my car was roadworthy when it passed its MoT doesn't mean it's currently roadworthy....

 

Unless, of course, Goa managed to convince the Premier League that he wouldn't fail the new tests, even if he was tested under the rules as they stand today...?

 

Yours thinking-out-loudly (as per usual)....

Edited 16 May, 2019 by trousers

[verlaine1979]

It’s actually not. Owning the local football club gives you good leverage with the council for real estate. Especially for riverside land or areas near the docks which could, say, be developed as a super casino or some other leisure facility benefitting from the cruise liner proximity.

 

I have always believed Gao has little interest in the club & sport, but much interest in real estate. That’s his background. He bought the club to expand his empire. The new theories about developing trade routes into the country from China is also interesting & not to be readily dismissed but we have been trading via the port for decades so that is nothing new.

 

Developing a football club and whatever land they propose in their plans of redevelopment and bringing in Chinese investment to the city will be highly regarded by the local council and they will be falling over themselves to acquire investment in the city. Who wouldn’t?! Usually the council f*** everything up by thinking that Southampton is Monaco & the most highly sought-after city in the world and go all Theresa May in negotiating and get greedy & unrealistic & most sensible people run a mile.

 

This is complete guff. Any of the UK's many financially moribund provincial regional/city councils will dance to the tune of whoever promises significant investment. They aren't sniffily playing hardball by pretending to be deaf until you buy the local football team.

[Wurzel]

This is complete guff. Any of the UK's many financially moribund provincial regional/city councils will dance to the tune of whoever promises significant investment. They aren't sniffily playing hardball by pretending to be deaf until you buy the local football team.

 

That's not what he's saying though is it. He's saying an owner of a local football team who has already shown that he can operate that on a sound and successful basis is more likely to have any future requests for land purchases/planning/development looked on favourably by the council than a relatively unknown.

 

Of course the council would (within reason) snap the hands off *anyone* approaching them with £millions to spend in the city, but already owning the local football team would sure give you a head start over others.

 

Bit in bold: That's why I feel more optimistic than many about our club and it's current owners, if, big IF, they have plans for the area in the future (and being a lover of conspiracy theories I think they do) then it will do them no good at all if they are seen as incompetent/unsuccessful at running a football club.

First step on the ladder, obtain the club - tick

Second step, make club successful - in progress

Third step,- who knows where that will lead us.

[benjii]

That's not what he's saying though is it. He's saying an owner of a local football team who has already shown that he can operate that on a sound and successful basis is more likely to have any future requests for land purchases/planning/development looked on favourably by the council than a relatively unknown.

 

Of course the council would (within reason) snap the hands off *anyone* approaching them with £millions to spend in the city, but already owning the local football team would sure give you a head start over others.

 

Bit in bold: That's why I feel more optimistic than many about our club and it's current owners, if, big IF, they have plans for the area in the future (and being a lover of conspiracy theories I think they do) then it will do them no good at all if they are seen as incompetent/unsuccessful at running a football club.

First step on the ladder, obtain the club - tick

Second step, make club successful - in progress

Third step,- who knows where that will lead us.

 

Mental

[once_bitterne]

Can someone remind me which specific Premier League owners test Gao would have failed if the current rules had been in place before he took over the club? Cheers

 

He was accused of bribing the state and was only not charged as he gave evidence against another involved party who ended up being executed.

 

Just normal businessman stuff really.

[verlaine1979]

That's not what he's saying though is it. He's saying an owner of a local football team who has already shown that he can operate that on a sound and successful basis is more likely to have any future requests for land purchases/planning/development looked on favourably by the council than a relatively unknown.

 

Of course the council would (within reason) snap the hands off *anyone* approaching them with £millions to spend in the city, but already owning the local football team would sure give you a head start over others.

 

Bit in bold: That's why I feel more optimistic than many about our club and it's current owners, if, big IF, they have plans for the area in the future (and being a lover of conspiracy theories I think they do) then it will do them no good at all if they are seen as incompetent/unsuccessful at running a football club.

First step on the ladder, obtain the club - tick

Second step, make club successful - in progress

Third step,- who knows where that will lead us.

 

You'd have a point if billionaires were fighting among themselves for the right to redevelop grubby parts of Southampton, but I hate to break it to you, they aren't. Pumping money into the town would require no conspiratorial groundwork - just the same due diligence and permissions as any other provincial redevelopment project.

[Wurzel]

You'd have a point if billionaires were fighting among themselves for the right to redevelop grubby parts of Southampton, but I hate to break it to you, they aren't. Pumping money into the town would require no conspiratorial groundwork - just the same due diligence and permissions as any other provincial redevelopment project.

 

They aren't at the moment. They may be in the future. Southampton could prove a strategic place in their Belt & Roads Iniative. Chinese do things differently than us. They plan long term. They place more emphasis on influence than we do.

 

Google "Chinese Soft Power" to see how they plan long term whilst gradually increasing their influence in an area Then add "football Europe" to the search. You might just start seeing things differently. Here's just one paragraph from one of many reports on the subject. (my bold emphasis)

As for buying European teams, Wilson says that Chinese investors are engaged in a soft-power exercise backed by the government, to win friends, develop connections for future business, and possibly generate a profit along the way.

[shurlock]

I see every poundshop Clausewitz is coming out of the woodwork

[Batman]

He was accused of bribing the state and was only not charged as he gave evidence against another involved party who ended up being executed.

 

Just normal businessman stuff really.

Is that all?

 

[Cabrone]

He was accused of bribing the state and was only not charged as he gave evidence against another involved party who ended up being executed.

 

Just normal businessman stuff really.

 

No wallflower is he.

 

When you've been involved with a thing like that something tells me a fans protest won't bother our chairman Gao......

[CB Fry]

That's not what he's saying though is it. He's saying an owner of a local football team who has already shown that he can operate that on a sound and successful basis is more likely to have any future requests for land purchases/planning/development looked on favourably by the council than a relatively unknown.

 

Of course the council would (within reason) snap the hands off *anyone* approaching them with £millions to spend in the city, but already owning the local football team would sure give you a head start over others.

 

Bit in bold: That's why I feel more optimistic than many about our club and it's current owners, if, big IF, they have plans for the area in the future (and being a lover of conspiracy theories I think they do) then it will do them no good at all if they are seen as incompetent/unsuccessful at running a football club.

First step on the ladder, obtain the club - tick

Second step, make club successful - in progress

Third step,- who knows where that will lead us.

Confucius wept.

[Saint Rees]

Some people on Twitter think that the whole sponsorship deal is a prank as part of this SAYNTS Festival kit reveal, with links to the Fyre Festival... Seems way too far fetched to me but with saints media team you never know

[SaintMB]

I doubt they'd put out official press releases and what not for a 'prank'.

[Badger]

Some people on Twitter think that the whole sponsorship deal is a prank as part of this SAYNTS Festival kit reveal, with links to the Fyre Festival... Seems way too far fetched to me but with saints media team you never know

 

Is this part of the fyre sale some are predicting ?

[verlaine1979]

They aren't at the moment. They may be in the future. Southampton could prove a strategic place in their Belt & Roads Iniative. Chinese do things differently than us. They plan long term. They place more emphasis on influence than we do.

 

Google "Chinese Soft Power" to see how they plan long term whilst gradually increasing their influence in an area Then add "football Europe" to the search. You might just start seeing things differently. Here's just one paragraph from one of many reports on the subject. (my bold emphasis)

 

You sound like you saw a headline in the Economist a few years ago and got carried away.

[John Boy Saint]

You sound like you saw a headline in the Economist a few years ago and got carried away.

I wouldn’t put it totally beyond the realms of possibility, adding the last Western port before America to the Belt and Road Initiative is not going to be as easy as wafting into an African country with a suitcase full of money. The long game will have to be played.

Alrough the mystery and BS alsurrounding this shirt sponsor, if that is the game, has more than likely illuminated a red light somewhere beyond these pages.

[Saint Without a Halo]

It’s actually not. Owning the local football club gives you good leverage with the council for real estate. Especially for riverside land or areas near the docks which could, say, be developed as a super casino or some other leisure facility benefitting from the cruise liner proximity.

 

I have always believed Gao has little interest in the club & sport, but much interest in real estate. That’s his background. He bought the club to expand his empire. The new theories about developing trade routes into the country from China is also interesting & not to be readily dismissed but we have been trading via the port for decades so that is nothing new.

 

Developing a football club and whatever land they propose in their plans of redevelopment and bringing in Chinese investment to the city will be highly regarded by the local council and they will be falling over themselves to acquire investment in the city. Who wouldn’t?! Usually the council f*** everything up by thinking that Southampton is Monaco & the most highly sought-after city in the world and go all Theresa May in negotiating and get greedy & unrealistic & most sensible people run a mile.

 

This is just not true why would a Chinese developer with the whole world open to him choose Southampton there are far more attractive areas and returns worldwide on property development than the UK never mind Southampton within the UK the ideathat GAo bought Southampton to make development in the City easier is just plane ridiculous!

[Saint Without a Halo]

I wouldn’t put it totally beyond the realms of possibility, adding the last Western port before America to the Belt and Road Initiative is not going to be as easy as wafting into an African country with a suitcase full of money. The long game will have to be played.

Alrough the mystery and BS alsurrounding this shirt sponsor, if that is the game, has more than likely illuminated a red light somewhere beyond these pages.

 

For you far fetched theory they would have to hope Trump is no longer there as he is stopping them export anything to the states presently and there are far better motre lucrative markets for them in Asia and Africa than the states

 

Also geographically and strategically why on earth would they need Southampton to access the States when they are busy building cross Africa railways there are a number of West African ports available to develop with much easier access to North and South America from China than Southampton

Edited 17 May, 2019 by Saint Without a Halo

[verlaine1979]

I wouldn’t put it totally beyond the realms of possibility, adding the last Western port before America to the Belt and Road Initiative is not going to be as easy as wafting into an African country with a suitcase full of money. The long game will have to be played.

Alrough the mystery and BS alsurrounding this shirt sponsor, if that is the game, has more than likely illuminated a red light somewhere beyond these pages.

 

The estimated cost of Belt and Road is counted in trillions of dollars, but you believe that a key stepping stone in the plan was sending a small time chinese businessman to buy Saints with money he struggled to get out of the country? Did the Chinese government also tank the financial performance of Lander over the past couple of years to give Gao a plausible reason to focus on his foreign asset?

 

I know it would be lovely to imagine that we're at the centre of global economic machinations that'll suddenly see us wielding the financial might of the Chinese state to infuse the club with quality, but that's not what this is. The reason everything looks weird and f*cked up is that we were bought by a chancer, and our new sponsors are likely just another bunch of chancers of his acquaintance. It doesn't need any more explanation than that.

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

I've just read that former Chester City owner, Stephen Vaughan is involved with LD Sports. Very bad news if true. I lived in Chester and would regularly attend games when he was in charge. He tried to move the club to Witness at one point. I don't know a Chester fan who has a single good word to say about him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Vaughan_Sr.

[benjii]

I've just read that former Chester City owner, Stephen Vaughan is involved with LD Sports. Very bad news if true. I lived in Chester and would regularly attend games when he was in charge. He tried to move the club to Witness at one point. I don't know a Chester fan who has a single good word to say about him.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Vaughan_Sr.

 

Where did you read this, please?

[CB Fry]

Where did you read this, please?

Simply Google Stephen Vaughan LD Sports and Stephen Vaughan Southampton FC and you will see....

 

 

 

Nothing is what you see. Nothing at all.

[whelk]

I have just read Venkys are behind LD Sports. Fronted by Michael Knighton.

Worrying.

[shurlock]

Don't worry Sky Sports, BBC, Reuters and AP have all interviewed LD Sports live. So what if they're nowhere to be found in the backwaters of google. They're as legit as one of Glasgow's betting slips.

 

Edited 19 May, 2019 by shurlock

[shurlock]

Mark Dreyer, founder of the China Sports Insider website, says Saints fans ought to be worried.

 

"There are just so many red flags with this whole deal," said Beijing-based Dreyer, citing Chinese investments in English football that have gone awry, such as Tony Xia's ill-fated spell as owner of Aston Villa after he came out of nowhere to buy the club in 2016.

 

Two years later the money dried up and Villa found themselves in a perilous financial position.

 

"Typically when it comes to Chinese investment you've got to pay attention to the red flags," said Dreyer.

 

"Nobody has heard of this company (LD Sports), nobody has heard of this guy supposedly behind it and there's no information about how much money they're supposed to be paying for this 'record' deal.

 

"Why on earth would Southampton fans have any confidence that this company is going to be around in three months, never mind three years?"

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190516-red-flags-raised-over-southamptons-record-chinese-shirt-sponsor

[Badger]

I have just read Venkys are behind LD Sports. Fronted by Michael Knighton.

Worrying.

 

Is he the character who ran on to the pitch at Old Trafford in full kit at the start of the season showing off his ball control etc only to see the deal fail a few months later ?

 

Anyway, I suspect this is a Mandaric- Gaydamark- Fialka - Ridsdale consortium in the background. With financial advice from Barry the Briefcase.

[JustMike]

Mark Dreyer, founder of the China Sports Insider website, says Saints fans ought to be worried.

 

"There are just so many red flags with this whole deal," said Beijing-based Dreyer, citing Chinese investments in English football that have gone awry, such as Tony Xia's ill-fated spell as owner of Aston Villa after he came out of nowhere to buy the club in 2016.

 

Two years later the money dried up and Villa found themselves in a perilous financial position.

 

"Typically when it comes to Chinese investment you've got to pay attention to the red flags," said Dreyer.

 

"Nobody has heard of this company (LD Sports), nobody has heard of this guy supposedly behind it and there's no information about how much money they're supposed to be paying for this 'record' deal.

 

"Why on earth would Southampton fans have any confidence that this company is going to be around in three months, never mind three years?"

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190516-red-flags-raised-over-southamptons-record-chinese-shirt-sponsor

 

Luckily for us that guy has never been right about anything Saints related. So desperate to be ITK it's unreal.

[Badger]

Mark Dreyer, founder of the China Sports Insider website, says Saints fans ought to be worried.

 

"There are just so many red flags with this whole deal," said Beijing-based Dreyer, citing Chinese investments in English football that have gone awry, such as Tony Xia's ill-fated spell as owner of Aston Villa after he came out of nowhere to buy the club in 2016.

 

Two years later the money dried up and Villa found themselves in a perilous financial position.

 

"Typically when it comes to Chinese investment you've got to pay attention to the red flags," said Dreyer.

 

"Nobody has heard of this company (LD Sports), nobody has heard of this guy supposedly behind it and there's no information about how much money they're supposed to be paying for this 'record' deal.

 

"Why on earth would Southampton fans have any confidence that this company is going to be around in three months, never mind three years?"

 

https://www.france24.com/en/20190516-red-flags-raised-over-southamptons-record-chinese-shirt-sponsor

 

Annoying but not necessarily critical providing they are not buying into the club only sponsoring the shirt. Air Florida went pop and were soon replaced if you remember that far back.

 

What is worrying is the background and what sort of dubious business circles Gao is taking the club in.

[shurlock]

Luckily for us that guy has never been right about anything Saints related. So desperate to be ITK it's unreal.

 

Has he ever claimed to be ITK? He’s a China based, market analyst who knows the Chinese football and sports scene and is approached for his opinion on it.

Edited 19 May, 2019 by shurlock

[aintforever]

I have just read Venkys are behind LD Sports. Fronted by Michael Knighton.

Worrying.

 

Why is it in the slightest bit worrying? The money shirt sponsors put in is peanuts compared to the club’s other income.

[Convict Colony]

I remember the Arsenal and BYD deal [emoji23][emoji23]

 

Low Definiton sports could be the next step in bull****

[whelk]

Why is it in the slightest bit worrying? The money shirt sponsors put in is peanuts compared to the club’s other income.

 

Chickens man

[doddisalegend]

Some video footage of LD Sports football training at their purpose built facility, under elite coach Dave Wilson, have emerged

 

[Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd]

Where did you read this, please?

 

Saw it on Twitter, although what CB Fry says is correct. If you Google it nothing comes up, which is probably good news. Let me try and find the original post that I read and I'll post a link.

[Nolan]

I remember the Arsenal and BYD deal [emoji23][emoji23]

 

Low Definiton sports could be the next step in bull****

BYD are still listed as sponsors on Arsenal's website.

[tajjuk]

Annoying but not necessarily critical providing they are not buying into the club only sponsoring the shirt. Air Florida went pop and were soon replaced if you remember that far back.

 

What is worrying is the background and what sort of dubious business circles Gao is taking the club in.

 

Yep this is the key point, if they go bust then we just get another one, probably will barely take a hit for it and the level of income is not that high.

[StDunko]

Yep this is the key point, if they go bust then we just get another one, probably will barely take a hit for it and the level of income is not that high.

 

Are you not missing the point?

 

My understanding is that; those asking questions about this deal are not worried about LD going pop and SFC missing out on some sponsorship income, but whether there is something a little more murky going on. i.e. is LD just going to become a conduit for money to escape from the club...or is the club being used to clear dirty money, with or without the knowledge of those in power at SFC.

 

I want SFC or LD to explain why there was a website that made some clearly spurious claims about the nature of LD's operations in the Southampton area. Who was that website aimed at and why?

[benjii]

Exactly.