LD Sports

[Crab Lungs]

The council have turned the club down from buying land near the stadium and they were too slow getting in an application to buy the concrete works.

 

Nice to know the club are prioritising the important things.

[maysie]

Ah good old Kirk and his friend.

 

Out of interest, are you content and happy with what's going on? I just feel slightly uneasy about shelling my money into what potentially looks like becoming some sort of financial vehicle. It’s all shady and has been since we first heard about the ‘potential’ takeover.

 

It does seem a bit odd and looks fairly shady. I've already renewed and I would have regardless - if anything it is good to get out with my brother and old man.

 

Anyway, regardless of all this, the really eye opener will be in what happens during the rest of the Summer. I believe that if there was anything really dodgy/corrupt going on there would have been more real facts coming out by now, not just hyperbole.

 

P.s. the pic was just a gag, nothing personal

[Batman]

I remember the days when the scandal was a non-striped red kit.

 

much simplier times

[trousers]

* Double post

 

What’s the delay with all the really delayed double posts?

 

I’ve seen a few recently.

 

Yep... the site's been fairly slow/tempermental of late.

[shurlock]

I remember the days when the scandal was a non-striped red kit.

 

much simplier times

 

Yeh but at least we’ve now sold out all the pitch-side advertising.

[Batman]

Yeh but at least we’ve now sold out all the pitch-side advertising.

 

we have our club back!

 

COYR

[so22saint]

He peed on my pitch man

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The big problem in China is that tax revenue is far more centralised than spending. Local government collects about 60% of total taxes (though it has very little say over how the base or rate is defined or set). By contrast, local government accounts for roughly 85% of general government budgetary spending -everything from health and education to the public pension system and unemployment insurance which is virtually unique in the world.

 

Many local governments are therefore reliant on transfers from central government which can be highly unpredictable and politicised. Not surprisingly many have significant deficits -and have turned to various activities -offbudget borrowing, speculative investment and predatory taxation etc- to finance their spending. Unless there’s real fiscal reform in China to address these imbalances, some of this will likely end in tears.

 

Or maybe foreign investment...

[John Boy Saint]

How does the tax system work over there in relation to where finances for local Government comes from? If they have decent autonomy I assume they tax residents themselves in the same way we would with council Tax, rather than paying into states and handouts to the provinces?

I know this has dropped out of sync

I asked this question when there last year - the lady who I spoke to is self employed (no not one of those) - when we asked what the personal tax was here in China - she said I don’t pay tax because I don’t tell them what I earn - she has apartments she rents, drives a 5 series L - her husband works in the state prison service and pays 10% “because he works for the state”.

[hypochondriac]

I'm confused by the itk on this thread. If Gao isn't the issue here then who is?

[SaintsLoyal]

I expect the club to take the gasworks site when they get around to dismantling it.

[hypochondriac]

I expect the club to take the gasworks site when they get around to dismantling it.

Isn't that land contaminated?

[Saint Billy]

Isn't that land contaminated?

 

Same as the club really.

[JustMike]

Chinese state influence according to this chap...

https://offthepitch.com/a/expert-southamptons-record-setting-sponsorship-carries-hallmarks-chinese-state-influence

[LGTL]

Man City get state influence from the UAE and win everything, we get state influence from China, a dodgy sponsor, dodgy kit and dodgy tours to China.

 

The Southampton way.

[Tamesaint]

I know this has dropped out of sync

I asked this question when there last year - the lady who I spoke to is self employed (no not one of those) - when we asked what the personal tax was here in China - she said I don’t pay tax because I don’t tell them what I earn - she has apartments she rents, drives a 5 series L - her husband works in the state prison service and pays 10% “because he works for the state”.

 

At work we employ Chinese based salesmen and I understand that it is customary in China to understate your income to reduce the amount of tax that you pay.

Edited 15 May, 2019 by Tamesaint

[Convict Colony]

I welcome our new big spending shirt sponsor overlords, hopefully we now begin a comprehensive upgrade of sponsorship deals for our pens, bags, water etc from China.

[tajjuk]

All a bit weird, we'll just have to see what happens, sadly at the end of day we are fans of a business owned by a private individual who is able to do what he wants. People should keep asking questions but I doubt we'll know much, the owner has not said much so far and IF this is some sort of Chinese state influence, they are never going to admit it.

 

Of course it could all just be a bit more simple and just be some rich person wanting to launch a new sports company and thinking that premier league exposure is the way to do it so just flashed the club some money, worry I suppose with that thinking would be that the finances for the deal will probably be staged across the years and if this new company doesn't get off the ground we'll end up needing a new sponsor.

 

Could also be a betting company pretending to not be a betting company to try to get around some betting rules.

[eddie]

Apparently I'm late to the table. Only just heard about this today.

 

It looks dodgy as ****. The photos, the fact they registered their website two months ago, the previous-unheard of star-studded coaches. Either it's a way to get money into the club but avoiding the normal regulations/oversight, or this is an odd marketing/expansion into the U.K./Europe deal that Gao insisted was a condition of him taking over the club, to whatever end. The Chinese link isn't the problem here. If it was a U.K. company I'd be as worried.

 

Helpful article: https://www.scmp.com/sport/football/article/3010161/premier-league-southampton-sign-record-shirt-deal-ld-sports-who-are

[jasoneuelllfanclub]

PL satisfied Chinese state have no significant stake in Southampton according to this.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

[Saint Billy]

God this is so amateurish it is laughable.

 

Why does this club always seem to make major and embarrassing feck ups. Unbelievable.

[SuperSAINT]

PL satisfied Chinese state have no significant stake in Southampton according to this.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

 

Might have to open another one after this.

[jamesfp1]

I've seen the future, and it is in the summer of 2025 that this thread eventually overtakes the Pompey takeover one. And Southampton is over run by a highly advance civilisation of giant squirrels.

 

I, for one, welcome our vermin overlords.

[suewhistle]

As long as they keep off my bird feeder. At least I get fit chasing them off..

[skintsaint]

Dude, the Chinaman is not the issue here.

 

 

This post really ties the thread together.

[Cabrone]

Apparently we are now to be referred as the 'Southampton Squirrels' soccerball sporting club.

 

Honest......ITK, bloke down pub, Gao told me in confidence in a phone box etc etc.

 

(At least make the squirrel red FFS)

[shurlock]

PL satisfied Chinese state have no significant stake in Southampton according to this.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

 

Couldn’t read the full article. But the excerpts are quite interesting.

 

Always thought the likes of Chadwick who claim that the purchase of the club is part of some grand strategic plan by the Chinese state going beyond football or sport were barking up the wrong tree. The article would appear to support this position. The squirrel is hiding elsewhere.

 

The article also highlights that there are communication problems between the club and owners which is very interesting, though not particularly surprising. It’s not just the fans who are in the dark; but it also appears the club in many respects.

 

It also suggests that unless you’re part of Goa’s inner circle and Chinese-speaking, anyone claiming to be ITK about the club’s status (see the tiresome nod nod wink winks on this thread) is likely chatting s**t.

Edited 15 May, 2019 by shurlock

[Cabbage_Face]

Southampton FC completely cocked up buying the "old" concrete works site, but, they have some interest with the "development" that "will" happen.

 

Interesting.

[benjii]

Couldn’t read the full article. But the excerpts are quite interesting.

 

Always thought the likes of Chadwick who claim that the purchase of the club is part of some grand strategic plan by the Chinese state were barking up the wrong tree. The article would appear to support this position. The squirrel is hiding elsewhere.

 

The article also highlights that there are communication problems between the club and owners which is very interesting, though not particularly surprising. It’s not just the fans who are also in the dark; but it also appears the club in many respects.

 

It also suggests that unless you’re part of Goa’s inner circle and Chinese-speaking, anyone claiming to be ITK about the club’s status (see the tiresome nod nod wink winks on this thread) is likely chatting s**t.

 

I’ve always found it amusing that, after Goa took over, we voted in favour of the PL rule change that would have prevented Goa from buying the club if it had been implemented sooner.

[charliemiller]

Ok here is a question ....i want to throw this out there for opinion .

 

It has been said that MR. Goa bought the club personally .......not through Lander sports OK

 

Now ....He borrowed 200m off McQuarrie Bank to do this that has been confirmed and reported.

 

Normally when you borrow this level of Money it will be secured by one of the following .

 

1) A charge against all assets owned by the borrower.

2) An equitable charge

3) A Personal Guarantee ....which ties up all the assets owned by the Guarantor.

 

The Mcquarrie Loan appears to be registered against Southampton Football Club which is wholly owned by Mr.Goa.

 

If they took an equitable charge over all his assets then surely his ownership in Landers would have been part of it , which would mean he has either paid back some with the payment from the chinese state (164m) or somehow the debt has been moved fully to the club .

 

Which means in effect he borrowed 100PC of the lend against the club which at the time he didnt own ......its very unusual for a bank to give 100pc funding for a purchase however .

 

So where does the liabilty sit in the event of a default ? Mr.Goa or the club itself ?

[doddisalegend]

Ok here is a question ....i want to throw this out there for opinion .

 

It has been said that MR. Goa bought the club personally .......not through Lander sports OK

 

Now ....He borrowed 200m off McQuarrie Bank to do this that has been confirmed and reported.

 

Normally when you borrow this level of Money it will be secured by one of the following .

 

1) A charge against all assets owned by the borrower.

2) An equitable charge

3) A Personal Guarantee ....which ties up all the assets owned by the Guarantor.

 

The Mcquarrie Loan appears to be registered against Southampton Football Club which is wholly owned by Mr.Goa.

If they took an equitable charge over all his assets then surely his ownership in Landers would have been part of it , which would mean he has either paid back some with the payment from the chinese state (164m) or somehow the debt has been moved fully to the club .

 

Which means in effect he borrowed 100PC of the lend against the club which at the time he didnt own ......its very unusual for a bank to give 100pc funding for a purchase however .

 

So where does the liabilty sit in the event of a default ? Mr.Goa or the club itself ?

 

didn't he only buy 80% of the club doesn't KL still own 20% of the club?

[ericb]

It also suggests that unless you’re part of Goa’s inner circle and Chinese-speaking, anyone claiming to be ITK about the club’s status (see the tiresome nod nod wink winks on this thread) is likely chatting s**t.

 

There's a part of me that wishes i could tell you the source so you could know just how right (and how wrong) you are...

 

Friends, friends, what is the issue here?

 

It all seems perfectly straightforward and above board to me.

 

Any club worth its salt would come out and soothe any underlying misgivings ASAP. And our club is well run, yes?

 

Also, I hear the five pledges will be listed on the front page when the website goes live, so there's always that.

 

Have the Southampton fc backed "football business schools" training agents got up and running in China yet?

[doggface]

Eric b, you are a poster I respect. I don't think it is really necessary for you or any of the other normally reliable posters to state a source.

 

I do however feel there is an amount of (to quote shurlock) "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" on this thread which is tiresome in this instance. This isn't a transfer deal.

 

 

If there is a legitimate concern with regards to the future of the club (& this "deal" for me screams alarm bells), I think a bit more meat on the bone is required at worst and at best you have a duty as a fan to put it out there.

[Wurzel]

Ok here is a question ....i want to throw this out there for opinion .

 

It has been said that MR. Goa bought the club personally .......not through Lander sports OK

 

Now ....He borrowed 200m off McQuarrie Bank to do this that has been confirmed and reported.

 

Normally when you borrow this level of Money it will be secured by one of the following .

 

1) A charge against all assets owned by the borrower.

2) An equitable charge

3) A Personal Guarantee ....which ties up all the assets owned by the Guarantor.

 

The Mcquarrie Loan appears to be registered against Southampton Football Club which is wholly owned by Mr.Goa.

 

If they took an equitable charge over all his assets then surely his ownership in Landers would have been part of it , which would mean he has either paid back some with the payment from the chinese state (164m) or somehow the debt has been moved fully to the club .

 

Which means in effect he borrowed 100PC of the lend against the club which at the time he didnt own ......its very unusual for a bank to give 100pc funding for a purchase however .

 

So where does the liabilty sit in the event of a default ? Mr.Goa or the club itself ?

 

Wan't the McQuarrie Bank facility simply the normal cashflow borrowing that most PL clubs undertake to cover early season outgoings until payments are received from the PL ?

[charliemiller]

Wan't the McQuarrie Bank facility simply the normal cashflow borrowing that most PL clubs undertake to cover early season outgoings until payments are received from the PL ?

 

NO the Loan is from Mcquarrie Hong Kong

[ericb]

Eric b, you are a poster I respect. I don't think it is really necessary for you or any of the other normally reliable posters to state a source.

 

I do however feel there is an amount of (to quote shurlock) "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" on this thread which is tiresome in this instance. This isn't a transfer deal.

 

 

If there is a legitimate concern with regards to the future of the club (& this "deal" for me screams alarm bells), I think a bit more meat on the bone is required at worst and at best you have a duty as a fan to put it out there.

 

Honestly i'd prefer not to do nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in fact i'd love to be able to openly talk about the sources because they're from people who worked alongside Gao in the UK and China, they would give real gravitas to what's going on, i'm sure Guan can put some pieces together btw, hence a few of the loaded questions i've put his way.

 

I have spoken to others who are on here in person, and they know who the sources are and that there's little reason to doubt them (although as with any of things sands shift), but i'm being careful because ultimately people's jobs can be put on the line with stuff like this.

 

I also understand the dismissive nature of people like Shurlock, it doesn't unduly bother me, but i'd ask all Saints fans to take a real concern in how the club is run and not assume it's being run well and everything else is conspiracy.

[scousesaint84]

Honestly i'd prefer not to do nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in fact i'd love to be able to openly talk about the sources because they're from people who worked alongside Gao in the UK and China, they would give real gravitas to what's going on, i'm sure Guan can put some pieces together btw, hence a few of the loaded questions i've put his way.

 

I have spoken to others who are on here in person, and they know who the sources are and that there's little reason to doubt them (although as with any of things sands shift), but i'm being careful because ultimately people's jobs can be put on the line with stuff like this.

 

I also understand the dismissive nature of people like Shurlock, it doesn't unduly bother me, but i'd ask all Saints fans to take a real concern in how the club is run and not assume it's being run well and everything else is conspiracy.

 

do you think there is a possibility Gao will be forced/look to sell the club? Should we be concerned for the future of the club? Is Gao the Chinese Rupert Lowe?

[Dusic]

Its pretty clear its not being run well.

 

Even clubs in the Isthmian South Central division have sponsors that...you know....actually exist and trade.

 

Will be very interesting to see if future accounts actually show the value of this deal as it seems ridiculous that a company that doesn't currently make money and has no track record of an ability to generate money is able to pay sums of sponsorship that is usually left to large, often multinational organisations.

 

If local media don't press the club on this a little then they are failing supporters.

 

Noticeable also that aside from that one tweet and article there is no mention of LD Sports anywhere on the OS.

[shurlock]

Honestly i'd prefer not to do nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in fact i'd love to be able to openly talk about the sources because they're from people who worked alongside Gao in the UK and China, they would give real gravitas to what's going on, i'm sure Guan can put some pieces together btw, hence a few of the loaded questions i've put his way.

 

I have spoken to others who are on here in person, and they know who the sources are and that there's little reason to doubt them (although as with any of things sands shift), but i'm being careful because ultimately people's jobs can be put on the line with stuff like this.

 

I also understand the dismissive nature of people like Shurlock, it doesn't unduly bother me, but i'd ask all Saints fans to take a real concern in how the club is run and not assume it's being run well and everything else is conspiracy.

 

Not sure what you’ve been reading. I don’t think I’ve ever claimed that the club is being run well. Quite the opposite. And I can’t think of many on here who dismiss “everything else” as a conspiracy.

 

Let’s be clear what my position is: I am sceptical that Goa’s purchase of the club has much to do with the city of Southampton and the UK -in particular, that it’s part of a wider, state-sponsored drive to catapult Lander Sports into the UK construction and infrastructure market.

 

By contrast, I’ve always maintained that, if Goa has a bigger agenda (beyond diversifying his wealth), it’s a domestic, Chinese one: whether its using the club’s reputation and know-how to build football academies in China or cater to some other local market. That’s also the position of many who are apparently ‘dismissive’ of you.

Edited 15 May, 2019 by shurlock

[doggface]

Eric, yes I get that totally.

 

 

I don't want to go all Julian Assange here, BUT if there is a real threat to the future of the club, we need to know a bit more about what is going on so we as a fan base can decide if action needs to be taken.

 

 

This sponsorship is the biggest warning sign for a while and we cannot bury our heads in the sand. We know when a football club is up for sale there are scheisters lining up for miles. A few off them actually end up in power like at Pompey & Coventry. We came very close to SISU.

 

 

Name no sources at all. You and a couple of others have earned your stripes over the years in terms of your intentions at the very least. Most, not all will give you the benefit of the doubt. If you and the others truly know more about the specifics of what is actually going on, then please tell us more because to be blunt the riddles don't really help.

 

 

I had some information which was very sensitive ages ago. In hindsight, I probably threw a couple of people under the bus a bit which I regret as I should have thought out my tactics a bit more. However when push came to shove I did it for the right reasons and it worked out for the club in a big way. Whether or not any of it had a direct result on our history, I don't know but it could have.

[Saint Billy]

Oh Kat, what have you left us with.

[John D]

NO the Loan is from Mcquarrie Hong Kong

 

So are you saying there are 2 loans from Macquarie Bank Limited. There is the one associated with the charge lodged at Companies house. This is the one referred in the post above (285) which is a cash flow one and has been taken out every year since 2016.

 

Any extra loan does not show directly on Saints books (as filed at CH) but given it is not possible to follow the accounts once it hits the Hong Kong holding company then I would suspect the second loan is on the books of that company and probably secured against the investment in Saints.

 

The issue then is that the only way to service that loan could be through a return from Saints - to date no money has been extracted but who knows what has happened post filing accounts or will happen in the future

[badgerx16]

Why do so many spell our majority shareholder's name wrong ? If we were truly owned by Goa, think of the opportunities for cheap holidays that fans could be offered. ( Or would that be too openly state ownership ? )

[BARCELONASAINT]

Honestly i'd prefer not to do nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in fact i'd love to be able to openly talk about the sources because they're from people who worked alongside Gao in the UK and China, they would give real gravitas to what's going on, i'm sure Guan can put some pieces together btw, hence a few of the loaded questions i've put his way.

 

I have spoken to others who are on here in person, and they know who the sources are and that there's little reason to doubt them (although as with any of things sands shift), but i'm being careful because ultimately people's jobs can be put on the line with stuff like this.

 

I also understand the dismissive nature of people like Shurlock, it doesn't unduly bother me, but i'd ask all Saints fans to take a real concern in how the club is run and not assume it's being run well and everything else is conspiracy.

 

 

Ok the above from ericb now concerns me. I was hoping that it was all a bit of a conspiracy theory going on and all was well at the club, particularly taking into account we secured the services of RH and he appears to have bought into whatever is going on.

I am now really concerned that RH who on the face of it is far from stupid, will, see through whats going on at the club and feel his future is definately not here.

 

Also the board know it is close season now and there is very little the fans can do if they are not happy......will the fans really stay away come August and the new season if it really is suspected we have a very unscrupulous owner??

 

For me the biggie will be if RH is backed in the transfer market and gets his way.....if not he will walk and we really can all panic.

[charliemiller]

So are you saying there are 2 loans from Macquarie Bank Limited. There is the one associated with the charge lodged at Companies house. This is the one referred in the post above (285) which is a cash flow one and has been taken out every year since 2016.

 

Any extra loan does not show directly on Saints books (as filed at CH) but given it is not possible to follow the accounts once it hits the Hong Kong holding company then I would suspect the second loan is on the books of that company and probably secured against the investment

The First is a floating facility , rather than getting a investec assignment each year it allows the club to trade in transfers through the black hole period of may june and july then the first stage of the prem money comes in , normal clubs as I say assign the PL payment to someone like investec who bridge the gap .

The hong kong loan is not registered but is for 200m so clearly for the purchase , if he has an equitable charge over all his assets its against the club anyway ....and he doesnt have much skin in Lander now if you can believe the reports.

I also believe the floating charge can be used as a security by Macquarrie against the 200m if it defaults ....ie they could in principle nick the clubs PL income , which is worryingh

[angelman]

Oh Kat, what have you left us with.

 

Why should she care? She got her £210m for 80% of us.

[verlaine1979]

Honestly i'd prefer not to do nudge, nudge, wink, wink, in fact i'd love to be able to openly talk about the sources because they're from people who worked alongside Gao in the UK and China, they would give real gravitas to what's going on, i'm sure Guan can put some pieces together btw, hence a few of the loaded questions i've put his way.

 

I have spoken to others who are on here in person, and they know who the sources are and that there's little reason to doubt them (although as with any of things sands shift), but i'm being careful because ultimately people's jobs can be put on the line with stuff like this.

 

I also understand the dismissive nature of people like Shurlock, it doesn't unduly bother me, but i'd ask all Saints fans to take a real concern in how the club is run and not assume it's being run well and everything else is conspiracy.

 

I think the concern is not about being evasive over who your sources are, but over what you think is actually going to happen? Obviously moot if the information you have could only come from one source, but if its as widely spread as you suggest, you could presumably just be candid about how you think things are going to pan out.

 

I don't think many people care about the wider political/economic machinations (if they exist) except as far as they fundamentally alter the ownership of the club, or its financial position re: investment or (thinking the worst) long-term survival. So, is Gao leaving? And if so, is the person that replaces him richer or poorer, better or worse?

[ericb]

I think the concern is not about being evasive over who your sources are, but over what you think is actually going to happen? Obviously moot if the information you have could only come from one source, but if its as widely spread as you suggest, you could presumably just be candid about how you think things are going to pan out.

 

I don't think many people care about the wider political/economic machinations (if they exist) except as far as they fundamentally alter the ownership of the club, or its financial position re: investment or (thinking the worst) long-term survival. So, is Gao leaving? And if so, is the person that replaces him richer or poorer, better or worse?

 

I have no idea how things are going to pan out, but i've stated all along that i don't think Gao is good for the club and i'm not convinced of his money, i'm also currently unsure if he has long term ambitions with Saints, certainly something i've heard have alluded to that.

 

I do know that there's been business use of the club, particularly in China and it seems likely that he's hit a wall on extracting his money as the Chinese government don't want it to happen.

 

Any firm and concrete suggestions of what would happen in the long term would therefore be a guess, but by all accounts self sufficient is the best case scenario right now.

[saint77]

Ok the above from ericb now concerns me. I was hoping that it was all a bit of a conspiracy theory going on and all was well at the club, particularly taking into account we secured the services of RH and he appears to have bought into whatever is going on.

I am now really concerned that RH who on the face of it is far from stupid, will, see through whats going on at the club and feel his future is definately not here.

 

Also the board know it is close season now and there is very little the fans can do if they are not happy......will the fans really stay away come August and the new season if it really is suspected we have a very unscrupulous owner??

 

For me the biggie will be if RH is backed in the transfer market and gets his way.....if not he will walk and we really can all panic.

 

Your last sentence is the key if he’s backed then all is good in my opinion and I’m happy if not we can all panic

[davefizzy14]

I personally want to just see what happens with the new sponsor before jumping to conclusions. The people at the top of the club are business people not amateurs. I'm pretty sure the club would have done important background research on potential new sponsors/commercial partners before agreeing to the deal. I'm just hoping that Gao will back Ralph in the transfer market this summer.