ally_uk Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 Who cares they went to a club with vision..... It's old news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 You may not have an obsession but you are clearly somewhat deluded if you dont realise on re-reading this thread that the points that you have made have been countered by others. Ive re read it.......my main point, which is, I’ll re type it for the 1 millionth time hoping it might sink in. Anyone in the exact same scenario as VVD would have acted in the same way, this doesn’t make him anything other than human. That’s my point. But I can see why no one gets that, got their saints tinted glasses on. I bet if we went in for a player at a lesser club, and his moved was blocked and he went on strike to force his move, he would be put up on the banner and lorded as a hero. Oh no, you would all boo him. Such nonsense people spout on here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 Ive re read it.......my main point, which is, I’ll re type it for the 1 millionth time hoping it might sink in. Anyone in the exact same scenario as VVD would have acted in the same way, this doesn’t make him anything other than human. That’s my point. But I can see why no one gets that, got their saints tinted glasses on. I bet if we went in for a player at a lesser club, and his moved was blocked and he went on strike to force his move, he would be put up on the banner and lorded as a hero. Oh no, you would all boo him. Such nonsense people spout on here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not everyone. I can categorically tell you I would not have acted in that manner. Just signed a 6 year contract, sat on my arse taking circa 60k a week whilst injured, I would have stayed for another year without a seconds thought. It’s called integrity which you clearly have none. Please don’t whinny about 1 chance and could get injured cobblers. The man was made for life with a 6 year contract. So please speak for yourself before you judge everyone else with you own standards in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 Ive re read it.......my main point, which is, I’ll re type it for the 1 millionth time hoping it might sink in. Anyone in the exact same scenario as VVD would have acted in the same way, this doesn’t make him anything other than human. That’s my point. But I can see why no one gets that, got their saints tinted glasses on. I bet if we went in for a player at a lesser club, and his moved was blocked and he went on strike to force his move, he would be put up on the banner and lorded as a hero. Oh no, you would all boo him. Such nonsense people spout on here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Your main point has changed with the wind as each one of your arguments has been utterly destroyed. Now you're just going in circles with this one. It's pretty weak in the first place, as you still seem to be saying VvD shouldn't be responsible for his own actions because he just wanted to join Liverpool so much. On top of that, there are plenty of players that haven't acted the way he did. You keep trying to say any of those examples aren't exactly the same, which I guess you'll just keep regurgitating again and again, but you still don't have a leg to stand on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 (edited) Not everyone. I can categorically tell you I would not have acted in that manner. Just signed a 6 year contract, sat on my arse taking circa 60k a week whilst injured, I would have stayed for another year without a seconds thought. It’s called integrity which you clearly have none. Please don’t whinny about 1 chance and could get injured cobblers. The man was made for life with a 6 year contract. So please speak for yourself before you judge everyone else with you own standards in life. Yeah of course you wouldn’t. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji1303][emoji1419] So you are on 60k a week, but your boyhood dream club comes in for you, triples wage, pledges to build a team around YOU. You would stay for another year, my arse you would. Unless of course you play FIFA and think it’s close to reality Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited 9 May, 2019 by Cabbage_Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 Your main point has changed with the wind as each one of your arguments has been utterly destroyed. Now you're just going in circles with this one. It's pretty weak in the first place, as you still seem to be saying VvD shouldn't be responsible for his own actions because he just wanted to join Liverpool so much. On top of that, there are plenty of players that haven't acted the way he did. You keep trying to say any of those examples aren't exactly the same, which I guess you'll just keep regurgitating again and again, but you still don't have a leg to stand on. Find me an exact same example, and I will go away. VVD did what we all would do, if money and more chance of winning trophies was dangled in your face. It’s easy to sit there, and claim you wouldn’t do it, but when you are a pro footballer, you’d do the same. Loads have, loads will and it won’t ever change. I have nothing but respect for VVD for chasing his dreams. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 Find me an exact same example, and I will go away. VVD did what we all would do, if money and more chance of winning trophies was dangled in your face. It’s easy to sit there, and claim you wouldn’t do it, but when you are a pro footballer, you’d do the same. Loads have, loads will and it won’t ever change. I have nothing but respect for VVD for chasing his dreams. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk De Gea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 9 May, 2019 Share Posted 9 May, 2019 De Gea. Who took him for lunch? Have united reported anyone tapping him up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Ive re read it.......my main point, which is, I’ll re type it for the 1 millionth time hoping it might sink in. Anyone in the exact same scenario as VVD would have acted in the same way, this doesn’t make him anything other than human. That’s my point. But I can see why no one gets that, got their saints tinted glasses on. I bet if we went in for a player at a lesser club, and his moved was blocked and he went on strike to force his move, he would be put up on the banner and lorded as a hero. Oh no, you would all boo him. Such nonsense people spout on here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Irony at its best Give it up Ekon you are looking more stupid with each post.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic Saint Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 The hatred of Liverpool and the players we sell to them is weird. For as long as I can remember, Liverpool and Man United have been the flagship clubs of English football and two of the greatest football clubs in the world. Any player would aspire to play for them. Meanwhile, we find so-called English football fans on here hoping they'll get injured or make mistakes and supporting Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch and any other foreign club which plays against them. It's the first time in history that any nation has provided all four clubs in the two major European finals. This may well be the greatest era ever for English football and our club has at least played a small part in it. As for van Dijk, Mane, Wanyama etc, anyone who believes our club didn't always plan to sell them is deluded. To our club's owners and directors, they were never viewed as more than commodities to be bought and sold for a profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 The hatred of Liverpool and the players we sell to them is weird. For as long as I can remember, Liverpool and Man United have been the flagship clubs of English football and two of the greatest football clubs in the world. Any player would aspire to play for them. Meanwhile, we find so-called English football fans on here hoping they'll get injured or make mistakes and supporting Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch and any other foreign club which plays against them. It's the first time in history that any nation has provided all four clubs in the two major European finals. This may well be the greatest era ever for English football and our club has at least played a small part in it. As for van Dijk, Mane, Wanyama etc, anyone who believes our club didn't always plan to sell them is deluded. To our club's owners and directors, they were never viewed as more than commodities to be bought and sold for a profit. Didn't stop you slagging them off for doing it though did it? two faces? I support Southampton FC only and have no inclination to wish success on any other English team as they are our rivals, success they achieve is only helping them get stronger and richer and further reduces our chances of competing but if you and cabbage want to swoon over them please spare us all the gushing and post on the big boys forums instead of here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally_uk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Exactly they are a massive club with a stadium that actually has a atmosphere what's the alternative stay at saints and settle for mid table shenanigans and possibly some sort of cup run. You can't blame them the players for wanting out kudos to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 I support Southampton FC only and have no inclination to wish success on any other English team as they are our rivals, success they achieve is only helping them get stronger and richer and further reduces our chances of competing but if you and cabbage want to swoon over them please spare us all the gushing and post on the big boys forums instead of here 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Exactly they are a massive club with a stadium that actually has a atmosphere what's the alternative stay at saints and settle for mid table shenanigans and possibly some sort of cup run. You can't blame them the players for wanting out kudos to them. Toddle off then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Exactly they are a massive club with a stadium that actually has a atmosphere what's the alternative stay at saints and settle for mid table shenanigans and possibly some sort of cup run. You can't blame them the players for wanting out kudos to them. Don't doubt they are bigger clubs BUT atmosphere?? Any club can generated an atmosphere on a big Euro night - even we managed it for the Milan game....everytime I have been to Anfield, it's been dead with our lot out signing the scousers for most of the game! And as for Spurs & their new ground, any club that pumps the songs out through the public address system ..well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Irony at its best Give it up Ekon you are looking more stupid with each post.... What are you on about? What is stupid in what i've said? You literally have no input other than trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Didn't stop you slagging them off for doing it though did it? two faces? I support Southampton FC only and have no inclination to wish success on any other English team as they are our rivals, success they achieve is only helping them get stronger and richer and further reduces our chances of competing but if you and cabbage want to swoon over them please spare us all the gushing and post on the big boys forums instead of here Another excellent post. I don't gush over the big boys, but i understand VVD moved to his dream boyhood club. Like if you played for Coventry and Saints came in for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 What are you on about? What is stupid in what i've said? You literally have no input other than trolling. Despite all the posts showing how stupid your "reasoning" has been you still wont accept what lots are saying, I guess we should give up as you will never admit it getting it all wrong but really you know what is being said is correct but your need to be a wum is to strong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Didn't stop you slagging them off for doing it though did it? two faces? I support Southampton FC only and have no inclination to wish success on any other English team as they are our rivals, success they achieve is only helping them get stronger and richer and further reduces our chances of competing but if you and cabbage want to swoon over them please spare us all the gushing and post on the big boys forums instead of here Fck this moronic line about making them stronger. One day eh one day. Could just as easily argue that the English game is more attractive to other players we might not otherwise attract. Do you hope Kane doesn’t score for England in WC as his value might go up and make Spurs stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 The hatred of Liverpool and the players we sell to them is weird. For as long as I can remember, Liverpool and Man United have been the flagship clubs of English football and two of the greatest football clubs in the world. Any player would aspire to play for them. Meanwhile, we find so-called English football fans on here hoping they'll get injured or make mistakes and supporting Spanish, Italian, German, Dutch and any other foreign club which plays against them. It's the first time in history that any nation has provided all four clubs in the two major European finals. This may well be the greatest era ever for English football and our club has at least played a small part in it. As for van Dijk, Mane, Wanyama etc, anyone who believes our club didn't always plan to sell them is deluded. To our club's owners and directors, they were never viewed as more than commodities to be bought and sold for a profit. Are you too young to remember the Heysel tragedy? Rioting Liverpool fans in the stadium lead to the deaths of 30 supporters, mainly Italian and Juventus fans. This results in a ban on English clubs participating in European competitions for five years during which Southampton would have gone to the UEFA Cup. Everton can feel particularly aggrieved. Liverpool think that they are above everybody else and every other club and that the league regulations on tapping-up don't apply to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Are you too young to remember the Heysel tragedy? Rioting Liverpool fans in the stadium lead to the deaths of 30 supporters, mainly Italian and Juventus fans. This results in a ban on English clubs participating in European competitions for five years during which Southampton would have gone to the UEFA Cup. Everton can feel particularly aggrieved. Liverpool think that they are above everybody else and every other club and that the league regulations on tapping-up don't apply to them. Heysel could have been any club. Italians were stabbing fans in Rome the year before. This was peak hooligan era and no club were angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Fck this moronic line about making them stronger. One day eh one day. Could just as easily argue that the English game is more attractive to other players we might not otherwise attract. Do you hope Kane doesn’t score for England in WC as his value might go up and make Spurs stronger? So you don't agree about teams winning more become richer and stronger.. ok then You are right about one day, one day but the rich getting richer makes the unrealistic dream even more unlikely and will eventually make teams like us pointless, if and when they all eff off to a supa dupa euro league the rest of us may have a more competitive league to play in Kane scoring for England might make him more pricey but it will not help spurs become stronger unless he score to make them win the CL.... HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashnats Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Heysel could have been any club. Italians were stabbing fans in Rome the year before. This was peak hooligan era and no club were angels. this. That's why there was no punishment on the Liverpool side and they didn't ban English clubs for 5 years. oh no wait, they did. weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Speaking of the rotting in reserves theory.. if we had have played tough and just started to apply this and showed him we were the ones with the power, what possibly could vvd have done about this other then to stop acting like a b itch? Serious question? One day a club is going to be stupid enough to try this, and the resulting legal challenge will probably destroy the way the transfer system works for good. Footballing contracts are already an exception to the law regarding free movement of labour in the EU, and I suspect the reason this grey area is allowed to persist is that nobody really rocks the boat too much - players might get denied their move for a season at absolute most, but they're always allowed to leave in the end, even when their departure leaves the selling club manifestly weaker. The key is obviously that the player can't breach the terms of their contract. Another poster has alleged several times that VVD went on strike, but as far as we can tell from any public statements made at the time, that's not true (and probably libellous). Apparently all that happened was he was asked whether he was in the right frame of mind to play, and he said he was distracted by the situation - it was then the manager's decision not to play him. If under those circumstances (i.e. a player upset but basically willing to play) the club decided to punitively restrict him to training with the kids, potentially for the remainder of his long contract, the players' union would be rubbing their hands at the opportunity to go to court and challenge the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Ahhhh the good old close season slag session started two days early. My it's gonna be a long one...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 (edited) So you don't agree about teams winning more become richer and stronger.. ok then You are right about one day, one day but the rich getting richer makes the unrealistic dream even more unlikely and will eventually make teams like us pointless, if and when they all eff off to a supa dupa euro league the rest of us may have a more competitive league to play in Kane scoring for England might make him more pricey but it will not help spurs become stronger unless he score to make them win the CL.... HTH Ajax are not as rich as Newcastle. Utd have spent £700m on players since Ferguson. Funny how so many view sport as if they are the financial director. 4 years ago we finished above Chelsea and Liverpool. Probably an outlier but wasn’t to do with financial clout. Kane is an asset and if has higher value therefore club is richer or we only counting liquid assets here? Edited 10 May, 2019 by whelk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 this. That's why there was no punishment on the Liverpool side and they didn't ban English clubs for 5 years. oh no wait, they did. weird. Isolated incident was it? England fans otherwise well behaved were they? No it was all the big bad scousers who took our players. Boo hiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wurzel Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 One day a club is going to be stupid enough to try this, and the resulting legal challenge will probably destroy the way the transfer system works for good. Footballing contracts are already an exception to the law regarding free movement of labour in the EU, and I suspect the reason this grey area is allowed to persist is that nobody really rocks the boat too much - players might get denied their move for a season at absolute most, but they're always allowed to leave in the end, even when their departure leaves the selling club manifestly weaker. The key is obviously that the player can't breach the terms of their contract. Another poster has alleged several times that VVD went on strike, but as far as we can tell from any public statements made at the time, that's not true (and probably libellous). Apparently all that happened was he was asked whether he was in the right frame of mind to play, and he said he was distracted by the situation - it was then the manager's decision not to play him. If under those circumstances (i.e. a player upset but basically willing to play) the club decided to punitively restrict him to training with the kids, potentially for the remainder of his long contract, the players' union would be rubbing their hands at the opportunity to go to court and challenge the status quo. Football - well professional sport in general - is also different to virtually all other types of business in that employees (on the playing side) are also assets. There is a need to constantly weigh up what they employee *might* bring to the club success wise in future seasons against what someone else *is* willing to give you for that same asset right now. As much as we'd like them to, it would make no sense - except for stubborn petty mindedness - for a club to banish a player to the reserves long term, and unfortunately the players know that and can use it to their advantage. Doesn't mean we can't dislike them for doing it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Heysel could have been any club. Italians were stabbing fans in Rome the year before. This was peak hooligan era and no club were angels. But it wasn't. Do you think Saints' fans would have behaved the same? Or Norwich. Or Leicester... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 But it wasn't. Do you think Saints' fans would have behaved the same? Or Norwich. Or Leicester... Millwall, Chelsea, Leeds, Utd even Spurs and Arsenal would. Remember our 1984 semi final - we was choir boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 So you sign a contract for £60k pw and it is agreed. Another Club approaches the player and offers £90k pw with total disregard to the contractual obligations of the player as they 'can afford any punishment'. As long as that other Club approaches his current Club and negotiates within the confines of the players contract that's acceptable. What is not acceptable is for a Club to tap up the player personally and ignore the protocol of real negotiation guidelines and then said player is not 'in the right frame of mind to play' then his employer has two options. Accept the underhandedness of the tap up club or, make the player play with the under 23s until he sees sense.The employing club is not in breach of the contract.For those who believe VVD acted for anything other than the increased wages is a little delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 So you sign a contract for £60k pw and it is agreed. Another Club approaches the player and offers £90k pw with total disregard to the contractual obligations of the player as they 'can afford any punishment'. As long as that other Club approaches his current Club and negotiates within the confines of the players contract that's acceptable. What is not acceptable is for a Club to tap up the player personally and ignore the protocol of real negotiation guidelines and then said player is not 'in the right frame of mind to play' then his employer has two options. Accept the underhandedness of the tap up club or, make the player play with the under 23s until he sees sense.The employing club is not in breach of the contract.For those who believe VVD acted for anything other than the increased wages is a little delusional. With the way agents are integrated into the game these days, the idea that you could keep interest in a player from a new club a secret is just naive. The situation with Liverpool was almost comical in how far beyond the tapping up rules they went, but do you really believe it was the one-to-one meetings that made all the difference, and that VVD's agent having a quiet word to explain that Klopp wants to build a team around him wouldn't have been 99% as effective in selling the move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Ajax are not as rich as Newcastle. Utd have spent £700m on players since Ferguson. Funny how so many view sport as if they are the financial director. 4 years ago we finished above Chelsea and Liverpool. Probably an outlier but wasn’t to do with financial clout. Kane is an asset and if has higher value therefore club is richer or we only counting liquid assets here?[/QUOTE] Good point but they are only physically richer when he is sold but when they win prize money and extra tv revenue they are cash richer, if that make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabbage_Face Posted 10 May, 2019 Share Posted 10 May, 2019 Despite all the posts showing how stupid your "reasoning" has been you still wont accept what lots are saying, I guess we should give up as you will never admit it getting it all wrong but really you know what is being said is correct but your need to be a wum is to strong... If you can explain to me what is wrong with “Put anyone in the EXACT same situation as VVD they would act the same as him” I’m still awaiting evidence and not your usual weird comments calling my other usernames and racist comments calling me Kenyan. Odd odd man. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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