Cheating MUST be dealt with

[Professor]

The penalty has become a huge problem for football as it now impacts on the outcome of so many matches and is a major focus for players, managers and pundits. The penalty was invented in the 1890s with the penalty area and penalty spot being introduced in 1902. It was a proper award for handballs and fouls where the attacking team had a good chance of scoring a goal. Today, the penalty dominates the game because the award of a free shot from 12 yards is completely out of proportion to most of the incidents for which a penalty is given. Consequently, players cheat to get a penalty instead of trying to score a goal in open play. Too often people focus on the decision of the referee, instead of on the way the penalty rule has corrupted the game. Simulation has become endemic. We see players pretending to have been fouled by throwing themselves to the ground if there is any contact with a defender, sometimes when they initiate the contact themselves and often with no contact at all. When there is a genuine foul, such as shirt pulling, players throw themselves down to make the incident look more serious.

 

The same is happening just outside the penalty area where a direct free kick from a close position is better than using footballing skills to get the ball past the defenders. An example was Tottenham's player, Rose, in the game on Saturday (9 March). The highlights of the game show Rose diving to the ground with arms thrown out sideways when faced by Romeu, just outside the area. It is important to be clear that Romeu did not make any contact with Rose. People can make their own judgement from the video of the game and the replay of the incident. It was impossible for the referee to see what had actually happened in the split second that he had to decide but he could see a player falling as if tripped. When players simulate a foul they make all the body actions as if a trip had actually occurred. If anything, these are sometimes exaggerated. In the particular game, Tottenham very nearly scored from the free kick and had they done so, the game could have been an away win instead of a home win. The impact on the outcome of matches by decisions on penalties and free kicks cannot be under estimated. The point is, the focus should not be on the referees who can be misled into making incorrect decisions, it should be on the cheating and it needs to be recognised that the rules of the game give too great an incentive to cheat.

 

So, what to do? In my opinion there needs to be a serious investigation by the football authorities into the cancer of simulation that is undermining football and has only got worse in recent years. Harsher punishments might be of some help. For example, retrospective punishment where a video of a match shows deliberate simulation with cheating being met by lengthy suspensions, not just a game of two but for periods of months. But it must be remembered that video evidence isn't available in all matches, only those at the top of the game. The real cause is the Penalty Kick being such an excessive reward for a foul where the player doesn't have a clear chance of scoring, or for a handball that doesn't make scoring a goal less likely. It is time to consider if the penalty rule needs to be completely overhauled so that the number of penalties awarded is massively reduced. Far fewer games would then turn on goals scored that way and players would need to continue to try to score from open play instead of attempting to draw a foul. If a foul does not stop an obvious goal scoring chance, an indirect fee kick might be the more appropriate award. What has become clear is that action is essential to remove the incentive for cheating as well as increasing punishments, because at the moment the game is truly sick.

[adrian lord]

VAR.

[Professor]

VAR.

VAR is NOT the answer. The game can't be stopped for every incident to be checked but this misses the point entirely. The rules of the game ENCOURAGE cheating.

[John Boy Saint]

What beggars belief is the referees don’t help themselves by persistently buying shoddy feigning of being clattered, from persistent cheating offenders, they.should also watch a bit of Rugby just to see how much contact is actually required to hit the deck performing a double back somersault with tuck.

On the flip side Long gets no protection because he was a regular feigner years ago, Vertongen smashed him yesterday but the refs view was pretty much “oh it’s only Shane Long he’s putting it on” Yet Danny Rose who is an excellent exponent of the dark art of making out he has been tackled by an oppo player fitted with Sythes for feet. Stupid refs buy it every week from him and he gets better at it every week and they buy a little bit more,

[Whitey Grandad]

I’m with you on this, Professor.

 

The danger is now that the aim of the game is to win penalties rather than to score goals.

[Saint86]

Offer no protection to players and retrospectively ban them - excessively.

[HarvSFC]

On the couple of occasions Friend didn’t jump to his whistle when a Spurs player made the theatrical fall he just let play continue yesterday, Hojbjerg gets in on the act again and is booked. Another case of a rule for one...

[hasper57saint]

Cheating in pro football has been around for years. One of my any observations was opposing players inadvertently stepping on the foot of the keeper to prevent any movement up or sideways and it worked. Moving the ball ten or even twelve yards closer than where the actual offence took place and taking throw ins further and further along the touch line. Diving is not new Rodney Marsh perfected it years ago and still Refs fall for it. Shirt pulling,wrestling and elbowing all take place within the view of the officials. Why have a fourth official who doesn't officiate? Can it just be because of the financial incentive? Greed is the norm in football and unless the obscenity of wages is curtailed it will continue.

Rant over. I hate Kevin Friend!

[tajjuk]

VAR is NOT the answer. The game can't be stopped for every incident to be checked but this misses the point entirely. The rules of the game ENCOURAGE cheating.

 

No they don't, every game in all forms people will attempt to win in anyway possible and that includes bending the rules. You do realise that defenders 'cheat' in the box ALL the time, pushing, pulling back, holding shirts, little sneaky trips all designed to stop people in the box scoring goals, so how you can put this on just attackers and the awarding of penalties is beyond me.

 

We saw in the World Cup with VAR, especially with certain countries how basically many defenders interpretation of defending is basically foul the man as much as possible but not get noticed by the ref. Columbia v England highlighted it massively, the Columbians were terrible in that game and then protested absurdly at the referee for what they knew were blatant fouls.

 

I don't really see the difference between the two, dive to try to win a penalty, commit an obvious foul to stop someone scoring when you know you have no chance of making a legitimate challenge.

 

VAR will cut down on the number of falsely awarded penalties and also highlight people diving, I agree that there should be more punishment for those diving but changing the penalty rules is not the answer IMO.

 

VAR is, we will get more correct decisions and that is better for the game. Plus the whole 'takes ages' thing is a nonsense argument when we had for example the Man City first goal that took nearly 4 minutes to sort out and the fact that pretty much every important decision made by a referee is argued and protested over by multiple players, which also eats game time.

[kyle04]

No they don't, every game in all forms people will attempt to win in anyway possible and that includes bending the rules. You do realise that defenders 'cheat' in the box ALL the time, pushing, pulling back, holding shirts, little sneaky trips all designed to stop people in the box scoring goals, so how you can put this on just attackers and the awarding of penalties is beyond me.

 

We saw in the World Cup with VAR, especially with certain countries how basically many defenders interpretation of defending is basically foul the man as much as possible but not get noticed by the ref. Columbia v England highlighted it massively, the Columbians were terrible in that game and then protested absurdly at the referee for what they knew were blatant fouls.

 

I don't really see the difference between the two, dive to try to win a penalty, commit an obvious foul to stop someone scoring when you know you have no chance of making a legitimate challenge.

 

VAR will cut down on the number of falsely awarded penalties and also highlight people diving, I agree that there should be more punishment for those diving but changing the penalty rules is not the answer IMO.

 

VAR is, we will get more correct decisions and that is better for the game. Plus the whole 'takes ages' thing is a nonsense argument when we had for example the Man City first goal that took nearly 4 minutes to sort out and the fact that pretty much every important decision made by a referee is argued and protested over by multiple players, which also eats game time.

 

+1

 

Theres very little consistency regarding many penalty awards. Handball for instance must be "deliberate", no defender is going to deliberately handle the ball and give away a certain goal, save the odd occasion when saving a goal bound shot with the keeper beaten, but this is very rare. So the ball hits hand/arm when in an "unnatural" position, that too is quite subjective and down to the refs judgement. VAR would help the ref make a more informed decision here I believe, but would still leave plenty of room for debate.

We've all seen many "soft" penalties awarded when very little (or no) contact has been made between defender and attacker, equally defenders routinely impede attackers at corner kicks for instance, some instances resemble rugby tackles and are rarely punished.

These things are not spur of the moment decisions made by players, they are taught it from a very early age, to the point where it's become instinctive. No one likes it but it's an unsavoury part of the game at almost every level.

I think the only way to more consistency would be VAR, but this may lead to the game being protracted to the point of losing the pace and rhythm of football which makes it such an attractive spectator sport, and would only be available at the highest level of the game.

[saint si]

There is also the opposite problem. Refs don't award pens/freekicks easily if the player stays on his feet or if there is no contact. The player who hurdles the challenge and doesn't go down often doesn't get any reward, despite having being impeded. Commentators and pundits also contribute to this with phrases like "he's got every right to go down there" and analysing challenges for some miniscule amount of "contact". Look also at the Sims kick-in-face incident... the only reason that wasn't given is because Vertonghen also got the ball yet completely irrelevant to it being dangerous play.

[Kingsland Codger]

Can anyone explain why the penalty area is the shape it is? Why isn’t it shaped like a D as it is in hockey?

[NewYorkSaint]

I agree w OP that a rule shift to award something less lethal than a penalty kick for lesser fouls in the box would improve the game. indirect free kicks from within the box would be exciting to watch. Two alternatives: a short corner, hockey style... or make it a direct free kick where the defending team can only place two defenders in the box along w GK.

The red card rules also need paying attention to. It's crazy to ruin an entire game because of reckless behavior of one player. Send them off, and - in violent cases - ban them from future games, but allow them to be substituted. The penalty should be on the player not on 30,000 supporters. I also think yellow card shd be accompanied by 5-min sin-bin.

Alas, pretty hard to change the rules. And the ones we have still make for an amazing game.

[georgeismyname]

The penalty has become a huge problem for football as it now impacts on the outcome of so many matches and is a major focus for players, managers and pundits. The penalty was invented in the 1890s with the penalty area and penalty spot being introduced in 1902. It was a proper award for handballs and fouls where the attacking team had a good chance of scoring a goal. Today, the penalty dominates the game because the award of a free shot from 12 yards is completely out of proportion to most of the incidents for which a penalty is given. Consequently, players cheat to get a penalty instead of trying to score a goal in open play. Too often people focus on the decision of the referee, instead of on the way the penalty rule has corrupted the game. Simulation has become endemic. We see players pretending to have been fouled by throwing themselves to the ground if there is any contact with a defender, sometimes when they initiate the contact themselves and often with no contact at all. When there is a genuine foul, such as shirt pulling, players throw themselves down to make the incident look more serious.

 

The same is happening just outside the penalty area where a direct free kick from a close position is better than using footballing skills to get the ball past the defenders. An example was Tottenham's player, Rose, in the game on Saturday (9 March). The highlights of the game show Rose diving to the ground with arms thrown out sideways when faced by Romeu, just outside the area. It is important to be clear that Romeu did not make any contact with Rose. People can make their own judgement from the video of the game and the replay of the incident. It was impossible for the referee to see what had actually happened in the split second that he had to decide but he could see a player falling as if tripped. When players simulate a foul they make all the body actions as if a trip had actually occurred. If anything, these are sometimes exaggerated. In the particular game, Tottenham very nearly scored from the free kick and had they done so, the game could have been an away win instead of a home win. The impact on the outcome of matches by decisions on penalties and free kicks cannot be under estimated. The point is, the focus should not be on the referees who can be misled into making incorrect decisions, it should be on the cheating and it needs to be recognised that the rules of the game give too great an incentive to cheat.

 

So, what to do? In my opinion there needs to be a serious investigation by the football authorities into the cancer of simulation that is undermining football and has only got worse in recent years. Harsher punishments might be of some help. For example, retrospective punishment where a video of a match shows deliberate simulation with cheating being met by lengthy suspensions, not just a game of two but for periods of months. But it must be remembered that video evidence isn't available in all matches, only those at the top of the game. The real cause is the Penalty Kick being such an excessive reward for a foul where the player doesn't have a clear chance of scoring, or for a handball that doesn't make scoring a goal less likely. It is time to consider if the penalty rule needs to be completely overhauled so that the number of penalties awarded is massively reduced. Far fewer games would then turn on goals scored that way and players would need to continue to try to score from open play instead of attempting to draw a foul. If a foul does not stop an obvious goal scoring chance, an indirect fee kick might be the more appropriate award. What has become clear is that action is essential to remove the incentive for cheating as well as increasing punishments, because at the moment the game is truly sick.

 

Well Romeu may not have made contact with Rose, but I'm pretty sure Valery did, and he was clearly the one penalised as received a yellow card for the incident. You also conveniently ignore Pierre's act of 'diving' later in the game...

[davefoggy]

The refs need to stop cheating. End of

[doggface]

Diving is a cancer of the game. Hojbjerg is a disgrace. Undoes most of the good work he does with his appalling cheating.

 

Cost us the game a few months back earning a second yellow, another mindless booking yesterday after jwp goal which was around the danger area.

 

He wouldn’t be my captain till he can cut this **** out of his game. Inexcusable

[Professor]

Cheating in pro football has been around for years. One of my any observations was opposing players inadvertently stepping on the foot of the keeper to prevent any movement up or sideways and it worked. Moving the ball ten or even twelve yards closer than where the actual offence took place and taking throw ins further and further along the touch line. Diving is not new Rodney Marsh perfected it years ago and still Refs fall for it. Shirt pulling,wrestling and elbowing all take place within the view of the officials. Why have a fourth official who doesn't officiate? Can it just be because of the financial incentive? Greed is the norm in football and unless the obscenity of wages is curtailed it will continue.

Rant over. I hate Kevin Friend!

Glad you mentioned Rodney Marsh because you’re quite right that he gained a reputation for diving in the early years of Match of the Day. His influence was such that amateur players in The Hampshire League where I was playing began copying him.

[Professor]

Can anyone explain why the penalty area is the shape it is? Why isn’t it shaped like a D as it is in hockey?

It’s because when the penalty was invented in the 1890s, a Line was drawn right across the pitch at 18 yards with the kick being taken from anywhere on that line. In1902, fouls out on the wings were excluded by shortening the line, so creating the penalty area with the kick taken from a fixed spot 12 yards out. Although the laws today express the distance in metric length it is still 12 yards.

[Professor]

Well Romeu may not have made contact with Rose, but I'm pretty sure Valery did, and he was clearly the one penalised as received a yellow card for the incident. You also conveniently ignore Pierre's act of 'diving' later in the game...

You’ve missed the point. I’m not condoning diving by Saints’ players. The sickness is in every club. I say it’s unrealistic to expect referees to spot every simulation. It would help if cheating was severely punished when discovered by retrospective study of incidents. The punishment in football is laughable while cheats in other sports can be banned for life. But I’d prefer seeing a penakttonly awarded for preventing a clear scoring chance with other fouls resulting in an indirect free kick.

[Sheaf Saint]

I agree w OP that a rule shift to award something less lethal than a penalty kick for lesser fouls in the box would improve the game. indirect free kicks from within the box would be exciting to watch. Two alternatives: a short corner, hockey style... or make it a direct free kick where the defending team can only place two defenders in the box along w GK.

The red card rules also need paying attention to. It's crazy to ruin an entire game because of reckless behavior of one player. Send them off, and - in violent cases - ban them from future games, but allow them to be substituted. The penalty should be on the player not on 30,000 supporters. I also think yellow card shd be accompanied by 5-min sin-bin.

Alas, pretty hard to change the rules. And the ones we have still make for an amazing game.

 

So you think that a red card should mean the team gets to make an instant substitution and keep it at 11v11, but a yellow should mean 5 minutes of being down to ten men?

 

That doesn't make any sense to me.

 

A 5 minute sin-bin for a yellow card could work, but not allowing a substitution for a red. Imagine how many players would "take one for the team" knowing full well there is someone on the bench ready to come on in their place. That would just encourage professional fouls and deliberate handballs to prevent almost certain goals even more, surely?

[St_Tel49]

Offer no protection to players and retrospectively ban them - excessively.

 

and cancel the goal that they gained.

[Ultimatt]

Good post. I think field hockey does it well with penalty corners for most infringements and only penalty shots for clear goal-scoring chances. You could easily implement something similar in football with a free kick in line with the infringement taken on the very edge of the box.

 

Retroactive punishments for diving would be great. 3 game bans.

I'd also support the FA fining a weeks wages every time they deem someone exaggerated a fall, with all the money going to grassroots football.

[Behind Enemy Lines]

‘Clear goal scoring chance’ is in use today with fouls on players and should be a red card.

 

But we saw on Saturday that that is also down to the opinion of the ref, and the player was only yellow carded on Saturday.

 

I’d love to see the refs get investigated more for decisions they make. Tottenham should have ended the game with three players sent off and so many decisions that blatantly favoured them. They (and other ‘Top Six teams’) surely must know that when playing a team out of the ‘Top Six’, that they are more likely to be awarded a foul for a lot less and be able to tackle a

little harder than the smaller teams’ players and therefore exploit that too?

 

They do a ref watch on Sky and would be interesting to see them analysing Saturdays game. But I expect they won’t go into too much detail as it was blatantly favouring a ‘Top Team’ and this is what Sky want.

[eurosaint]

Another pet hate of mine is at corners when the ball is often placed outside of the arc and ignored by the linesman !

There is no significant gain by doing this but it sends a sign that rules can be broken or bent at will which is not healthy IMHO !

Diving is often difficult for refs to see but blatant shirt pulling is often overlooked and that is inexcusable !!

[Whitey Grandad]

Another pet hate of mine is at corners when the ball is often placed outside of the arc and ignored by the linesman !

There is no significant gain by doing this but it sends a sign that rules can be broken or bent at will which is not healthy IMHO !

Diving is often difficult for refs to see but blatant shirt pulling is often overlooked and that is inexcusable !!

 

For corners only part of the ball has to be over part of the arc. It can look as though the ball is outside from some angles.

[manzo]

Funnily enough, a pet hate of mine is people who don't understand that the rule that the whole of the ball needs to be over a line applies everywhere on the pitch, not just the goalline.

 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

[Noodles34]

The penalty has become a huge problem for football as it now impacts on the outcome of so many matches and is a major focus for players, managers and pundits. The penalty was invented in the 1890s with the penalty area and penalty spot being introduced in 1902. It was a proper award for handballs and fouls where the attacking team had a good chance of scoring a goal. Today, the penalty dominates the game because the award of a free shot from 12 yards is completely out of proportion to most of the incidents for which a penalty is given. Consequently, players cheat to get a penalty instead of trying to score a goal in open play. Too often people focus on the decision of the referee, instead of on the way the penalty rule has corrupted the game. Simulation has become endemic. We see players pretending to have been fouled by throwing themselves to the ground if there is any contact with a defender, sometimes when they initiate the contact themselves and often with no contact at all. When there is a genuine foul, such as shirt pulling, players throw themselves down to make the incident look more serious.

 

The same is happening just outside the penalty area where a direct free kick from a close position is better than using footballing skills to get the ball past the defenders. An example was Tottenham's player, Rose, in the game on Saturday (9 March). The highlights of the game show Rose diving to the ground with arms thrown out sideways when faced by Romeu, just outside the area. It is important to be clear that Romeu did not make any contact with Rose. People can make their own judgement from the video of the game and the replay of the incident. It was impossible for the referee to see what had actually happened in the split second that he had to decide but he could see a player falling as if tripped. When players simulate a foul they make all the body actions as if a trip had actually occurred. If anything, these are sometimes exaggerated. In the particular game, Tottenham very nearly scored from the free kick and had they done so, the game could have been an away win instead of a home win. The impact on the outcome of matches by decisions on penalties and free kicks cannot be under estimated. The point is, the focus should not be on the referees who can be misled into making incorrect decisions, it should be on the cheating and it needs to be recognised that the rules of the game give too great an incentive to cheat.

 

So, what to do? In my opinion there needs to be a serious investigation by the football authorities into the cancer of simulation that is undermining football and has only got worse in recent years. Harsher punishments might be of some help. For example, retrospective punishment where a video of a match shows deliberate simulation with cheating being met by lengthy suspensions, not just a game of two but for periods of months. But it must be remembered that video evidence isn't available in all matches, only those at the top of the game. The real cause is the Penalty Kick being such an excessive reward for a foul where the player doesn't have a clear chance of scoring, or for a handball that doesn't make scoring a goal less likely. It is time to consider if the penalty rule needs to be completely overhauled so that the number of penalties awarded is massively reduced. Far fewer games would then turn on goals scored that way and players would need to continue to try to score from open play instead of attempting to draw a foul. If a foul does not stop an obvious goal scoring chance, an indirect fee kick might be the more appropriate award. What has become clear is that action is essential to remove the incentive for cheating as well as increasing punishments, because at the moment the game is truly sick.

 

If that is right then the referee should not give it.

[jawillwill]

Funnily enough, a pet hate of mine is people who don't understand that the rule that the whole of the ball needs to be over a line applies everywhere on the pitch, not just the goalline.

 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

 

+1.

[eurosaint]

Funnily enough, a pet hate of mine is people who don't understand that the rule that the whole of the ball needs to be over a line applies everywhere on the pitch, not just the goalline.

 

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for your sarcastic response but perhaps if you read my post I said “OUTSIDE” of the arc !

The trend nowadays is to place the ball right on the very edge but sometimes it is completely over the line and is still largely

ignored !

I am aware of the ruling regarding the ‘whole of the ball’ etc.. but that was not the point I was making !

[Noodles34]

no rebounds on penalties from next season, really not sure how that is going to work?

[nta786]

gamesmanship, google it.

 

will never ever be eradicated.

[Dark Munster]

no rebounds on penalties from next season, really not sure how that is going to work?

Same as penalty shootouts, but with a goal kick if saved. Good idea if true. I would also make the penalty taker be the one who was fouled (or who last hit the ball if hand ball). Only someone else if he goes off injured.

Edited 11 March, 2019 by Dark Munster

[LGTL]

I did read that the new penalty rule was just a proposal and won't be going ahead, happy to be proved wrong though. I know SSN did a big thing on it but it was later retracted.

[Viking Saint]

What beggars belief is the referees don’t help themselves by persistently buying shoddy feigning of being clattered, from persistent cheating offenders, they.should also watch a bit of Rugby just to see how much contact is actually required to hit the deck performing a double back somersault with tuck.

On the flip side Long gets no protection because he was a regular feigner years ago, Vertongen smashed him yesterday but the refs view was pretty much “oh it’s only Shane Long he’s putting it on” Yet Danny Rose who is an excellent exponent of the dark art of making out he has been tackled by an oppo player fitted with Sythes for feet. Stupid refs buy it every week from him and he gets better at it every week and they buy a little bit more,

 

In a somewhat related vein, the main objective of any top class side scrummaging is to win a penalty at the scrum. To this end, many front row forwards will allow the scrum to go down in order to con the ref that the other side is collapsing, problem being it's bloody hard for a ref to tell who is doing the collapsing. Every sport has con artists who try to get something out of nothing, it does seem horribly prevalent in Football though.

[OttawaSaint]

Same as penalty shootouts, but with a goal kick if saved. Good idea if true. I would also make the penalty taker be the one who was fouled (or who last hit the ball if hand ball). Only someone else if he goes off injured.

 

That's what happens in ice hockey. I'd rather they kept football the way it is.

[kenneth_kenobi]

VAR.

 

VAR makes it WORSE. Watch any Serie A or Bundesliga game and players are appealing for VAR every time there is a goal scored or penalty given/not given, and in slow motion a slight nudge can be given as a penalty, whereas in realtime it is just part of the game. Takes much too long as well, if used it should be ongoing not wait for a break in play. Recently Fiorentina appealed for a penalty, not given, play goes on for a bout 5 minutes and eventually opposition score - VAR brought in and goal wiped out and go back for the penalty!! Rubbish. Equalising goal scored in 102nd minute, all cos of VAR. Also penalties are given for ridiculous things like ball being blasted at a defender from 2 metres and hitting his chest then brushing the arm, with the attacker not even appealing.

[Dark Munster]

VAR makes it WORSE. Watch any Serie A or Bundesliga game and players are appealing for VAR every time there is a goal scored or penalty given/not given, and in slow motion a slight nudge can be given as a penalty, whereas in realtime it is just part of the game. Takes much too long as well, if used it should be ongoing not wait for a break in play. Recently Fiorentina appealed for a penalty, not given, play goes on for a bout 5 minutes and eventually opposition score - VAR brought in and goal wiped out and go back for the penalty!! Rubbish. Equalising goal scored in 102nd minute, all cos of VAR. Also penalties are given for ridiculous things like ball being blasted at a defender from 2 metres and hitting his chest then brushing the arm, with the attacker not even appealing.

What you're describing is the problem with idiots using, not with VAR itself. Like a drunken teenager driving a Ferrari. Overall it worked very well at the World Cup.

[kenneth_kenobi]

What you're describing is the problem with idiots using, not with VAR itself. Like a drunken teenager driving a Ferrari. Overall it worked very well at the World Cup.

 

No it didn't, it still took too long. The first time I saw it trialled many years ago, it was almost instantaneous - the guy watching video immediately told ref he was checking, and it was resolved quickly. If it is not sorted within 30 seconds it is obviously too close to cal land should revert to ref's call.

[Dark Munster]

No it didn't, it still took too long. The first time I saw it trialled many years ago, it was almost instantaneous - the guy watching video immediately told ref he was checking, and it was resolved quickly. If it is not sorted within 30 seconds it is obviously too close to cal land should revert to ref's call.

That's my point. It's not VAR, it's the idiots using it. Just like yesterday in the City/Schalke match. 2 minutes to decide a clear non-offside. Could've been done in 10 seconds.