Saints 1 Cardiff City 2 post match dissection

[saintscottofthenortham]

I think we’re done for until we inevitably go down now. January told us everything we needed confirming, that the carp Krueger was spouting at the Forum (being able to invest all monies made) was a load of tosh. We’ve let Cedric and Gabbi go, who obviously didn’t want to be here, but to keep the likes of Long, who has scored 6 goals in his last 78 Premier League games (1:13) and Austin, who couldn’t give a single hoot, I just can’t fathom what is going on the heads at the top. Long and Austin are probably that bad they are impossible to be rid of, but then they keep playing. Long has shown over and over he isn’t going to score, so why not give the likes of Gallagher a start when Ings is out?

 

McCarthy - Looks a shadow of the player he was last year (Recurring theme (Forster))

Stephens - Straight up shouldn’t be a defender - Shocking

Vest - What on earth were they drinking?

JWP - Technically gifted but FFS

Armstrong -

Elyounoussi - LOL

Long - Been stealing a living since 2015

Austin - Shocking attitude

 

Never thought there would come a day I’d be longing for Maya Yoshida to return to the side. I’ll welcome the Championship, to be rid of Gao and the festering turds that litter our squad. Not felt this bad since the days of Rupert Lowe. Sad times.

[beatlesaint]

Just watched motd (I know it’s not the same as going) but we really didn’t look bad. Attacking intent with redman, Vallery and Austin unlucky not to score. I think if we played the same game 3 times we would 2/3.

 

Yes a fitting couple of results and would have really liked at least 3 points from the last two. However there is clearly a change in team mentality and set up. I think we will be fine, but it will be very close.

 

Still

 

Cardiff (they cant sustain this momentum)

Fulham

Huddersfield

 

To go down for me

 

Yes but as you say you didnt go and you are basing your views on less than five minutes of highlights. Redmond for example was a disgrace in the last 15 mins, all he wanted to do was argue with the officials, with his own team mates, with the crowd. Long was bloody awful the whole time he was on the pitch. The only one who emerged with any credit I thought was Valery.

[danjosaint]

Don't agree. The squad was too big. It needed to be slimmed down--and still does need to be slimmed further. It was no good adding same quality as we have, if there was not top quality players ready to come, better to stay with our present players. Yesterday was big blow. But we are improving. And yes, Valery looks good to me. Its just a goalscorer we miss and no, Gabbi was not the answer. It's worrying but not hopeless.

 

So slim down the fu***** squad in the summer when were safe, so many numptys on here , to do that in the January window when were in relegation trouble is fu***** inexplicable, to save yourself £500k on a loan deal but poss lose out on £100m+ premier league money, u do the maths

[stknowle]

Don't agree. The squad was too big. It needed to be slimmed down--and still does need to be slimmed further. It was no good adding same quality as we have, if there was not top quality players ready to come, better to stay with our present players. Yesterday was big blow. But we are improving. And yes, Valery looks good to me. Its just a goalscorer we miss and no, Gabbi was not the answer. It's worrying but not hopeless.

 

I just do not see this argument. Some squad trimming - crap like Hoedt - fine but letting decent players go - Cedric and Gabbiadini inparticular - and not replacing them has made us weaker, it's as simple as that. To weaken the squad in the situation we are in is a ridiculously dangerous thing to do.

[Dalek2003]

So slim down the fu***** squad in the summer when were safe, so many numptys on here , to do that in the January window when were in relegation trouble is fu***** inexplicable, to save yourself £500k on a loan deal but poss lose out on £100m+ premier league money, u do the maths

 

IN a nutshell...post of the week for putting in simple but blunt terms.

[Shroppie]

I almost completely avoided looking at the forum last night as I guessed it would be overrun with the usual gloating delighted non-fans, cranking up the bed-wetting to even greater levels.

 

A quick glance shows I wasn't wrong. But in the cold light of day, my reflections on a miserable result.

 

Firstly, haven't heard where Armstrong was - assume injured - but we missed him badly. It was in many ways a repeat of Palace and Burnley with them sitting back and denying us space behind or the opportunity to press and got them on transition. I fear it will now be realised that's the way to play against us.

 

It's been said many times, but in that sort of game you need patience, someone to run at the defence, someone with the guile to pick out runs, clever movement and willingness to take on long range shots and it helps a lot to get an early goal.

 

In that context, Long was ineffective. He had no space, didn't take on players or, really, do anything else. Not that I think Austin or Gallagher would necessarily have been any better: the speed of thought and movement is lacking.

 

Redmond was ok, but they controlled him well as there were few other attacking threats to worry about. After a couple of encouraging games, JWP didn't produce a lot. I think he was looking for the forward cutting pass but often there was little on.

 

Romeu and Hojbjerg were solid enough but against such limited opposition we could perhaps have used Lemina's flair.

 

Overall I didn't think the CBs had bad games. Stephens will rightly be criticised for the sloppy pass that led to their second but otherwise was ok. But collectively they should have stopped the first goal. Wasn't McCarthy's best game, especially with distribution and I sense his confidence isn't what it was. But I can't see that he was directly to blame for either goal.

 

Valery was excellent and my MOTM. His run and shot near the end should have brought a goal. Bertrand's return was a surprise to me and I didn't think he was better than Targett. He did get in a couple of crosses but at other times seemed hesitant: maybe rustiness. I've seen a theory that Redmond doesn't play as well when Bertrand is in the team. Not sure about that, but on the basis of yesterday, there could be something in it.

 

Sorry to say that Elyounoussi added nothing except a foul that eventually led to them scoring. Hope we can see Sims instead very soon.

 

Overall, I'm gutted and as depressed after a game as I have been in a long time. The squad is thin and without Ings, Armstrong and Lemina the creativity and movement isn't good enough. But we weren't that bad and were clearly the better team. But that counts for nothing if you can't score and we were beaten by a classic smash and grab. If we'd not given away the stupid second goal, I would have taken positives: fighting back to get a point but to have relief turn to despair so abruptly was the real killer.

 

It would have been great to have strengthened the squad in January, but I'm a realist and don't blame the club. I know targets were identified but if clubs are reluctant to sell it barely makes sense to pay way over the odds. What has happened before is we've been refused principal targets then wasted money on panic buys of dubious quality, and we're still paying for that now.

 

I think we have got the players and manager to survive but Hasenhüttl has now got a job on his hands: he built yesterday up massively and has to deal with the aftermath. I'm also praying for no more injuries.

 

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[S-Clarke]

The last two results have been killers for us, without question.

 

We could have pulled ourselves away, but now we're in the thick of it until the final weekend I'd have thought.

 

Really lazy first half, lack of intent, lack of confidence to move the ball quicker. We had a few passengers out there which didn't help the situation.

 

Hoj returned to the bad Hoj, game seemed to pass Romeu and Prowse by. Bertrand looked like he'd forgotten how to play. Stephens was edgy most of the game and then did the inevitable (he's not good enough). Long was horrific, like beyond bad. Really, really painful to watch someone like him try to play football.

 

Redmond ran around a lot but didn't contribute, seems to be going back into blind allies again - but he was our most threatening outlet, unfortunately that doesn't say much.

 

Valery was decent though, which is good as he needs to step up. Now all we need to hear is that he's injured for a few weeks so our replacement RB can come in. Oh, wait.

 

If this Tenerife trip is to sift out the crap then we will struggle to field a team when we return.

[Batman]

there is a great example of over hyping a young player ^^^^

 

Valery was excellent and my MOTM

 

valery was far from excellent to be honest.

none of our players were anything near excellent

[S-Clarke]

Valery was decent, but that's about all. He did step up I felt, but I wouldn't have called out anyone for a MOTM.

[Chewy]

I almost completely avoided looking at the forum last night as I guessed it would be overrun with the usual gloating delighted non-fans, cranking up the bed-wetting to even greater levels.

 

A quick glance shows I wasn't wrong. But in the cold light of day, my reflections on a miserable result.

 

Firstly, haven't heard where Armstrong was - assume injured - but we missed him badly. It was in many ways a repeat of Palace and Burnley with them sitting back and denying us space behind or the opportunity to press and got them on transition. I fear it will now be realised that's the way to play against us.

 

It's been said many times, but in that sort of game you need patience, someone to run at the defence, someone with the guile to pick out runs, clever movement and willingness to take on long range shots and it helps a lot to get an early goal.

 

In that context, Long was ineffective. He had no space, didn't take on players or, really, do anything else. Not that I think Austin or Gallagher would necessarily have been any better: the speed of thought and movement is lacking.

 

Redmond was ok, but they controlled him well as there were few other attacking threats to worry about. After a couple of encouraging games, JWP didn't produce a lot. I think he was looking for the forward cutting pass but often there was little on.

 

Romeu and Hojbjerg were solid enough but against such limited opposition we could perhaps have used Lemina's flair.

 

Overall I didn't think the CBs had bad games. Stephens will rightly be criticised for the sloppy pass that led to their second but otherwise was ok. But collectively they should have stopped the first goal. Wasn't McCarthy's best game, especially with distribution and I sense his confidence isn't what it was. But I can't see that he was directly to blame for either goal.

 

Valery was excellent and my MOTM. His run and shot near the end should have brought a goal. Bertrand's return was a surprise to me and I didn't think he was better than Targett. He did get in a couple of crosses but at other times seemed hesitant: maybe rustiness. I've seen a theory that Redmond doesn't play as well when Bertrand is in the team. Not sure about that, but on the basis of yesterday, there could be something in it.

 

Sorry to say that Elyounoussi added nothing except a foul that eventually led to them scoring. Hope we can see Sims instead very soon.

 

Overall, I'm gutted and as depressed after a game as I have been in a long time. The squad is thin and without Ings, Armstrong and Lemina the creativity and movement isn't good enough. But we weren't that bad and were clearly the better team. But that counts for nothing if you can't score and we were beaten by a classic smash and grab. If we'd not given away the stupid second goal, I would have taken positives: fighting back to get a point but to have relief turn to despair so abruptly was the real killer.

 

It would have been great to have strengthened the squad in January, but I'm a realist and don't blame the club. I know targets were identified but if clubs are reluctant to sell it barely makes sense to pay way over the odds. What has happened before is we've been refused principal targets then wasted money on panic buys of dubious quality, and we're still paying for that now.

 

I think we have got the players and manager to survive but Hasenhüttl has now got a job on his hands: he built yesterday up massively and has to deal with the aftermath. I'm also praying for no more injuries.

 

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Pretty fair assessment. I just don't agree with the lack of attacking signing. Yes we have bought sloppily before on players we're still paying handsomely for, but the maths for the risk of getting relegated mean there was only one option to take, we didn't and risk paying for it IMHO.

[Forester]

Just watched motd (I know it’s not the same as going) but we really didn’t look bad. Attacking intent with redman, Vallery and Austin unlucky not to score. I think if we played the same game 3 times we would 2/3.

 

Yes a fitting couple of results and would have really liked at least 3 points from the last two. However there is clearly a change in team mentality and set up. I think we will be fine, but it will be very close.

 

Still

 

Cardiff (they cant sustain this momentum)

Fulham

Huddersfield

 

To go down for me

Trust me, as a usually positive poster, it was a very poor performance and the highlights were, well, the highlights

[beatlesaint]

So slim down the fu***** squad in the summer when were safe, so many numptys on here , to do that in the January window when were in relegation trouble is fu***** inexplicable, to save yourself £500k on a loan deal but poss lose out on £100m+ premier league money, u do the maths

 

This all day long. Why some people refuse to see this point is beyond me, its basic common sense. We are playing Russian Roulette with our Prem League future....yesterday we took a bullet.

[Micky]

Agreed. Everyone knows my prediction for this season (although will be infracted if I mention it), and I still think that is about right.

My prediction for the season was that we would go down, we are still on course for that, and I still expect it to happen. I don't expect to be infracted for saying so though.

 

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[SaveloyMush]

I almost completely avoided looking at the forum last night as I guessed it would be overrun with the usual gloating delighted non-fans, cranking up the bed-wetting to even greater levels.

 

A quick glance shows I wasn't wrong. But in the cold light of day, my reflections on a miserable result.

 

Firstly, haven't heard where Armstrong was - assume injured - but we missed him badly. It was in many ways a repeat of Palace and Burnley with them sitting back and denying us space behind or the opportunity to press and got them on transition. I fear it will now be realised that's the way to play against us.

 

It's been said many times, but in that sort of game you need patience, someone to run at the defence, someone with the guile to pick out runs, clever movement and willingness to take on long range shots and it helps a lot to get an early goal.

 

In that context, Long was ineffective. He had no space, didn't take on players or, really, do anything else. Not that I think Austin or Gallagher would necessarily have been any better: the speed of thought and movement is lacking.

 

Redmond was ok, but they controlled him well as there were few other attacking threats to worry about. After a couple of encouraging games, JWP didn't produce a lot. I think he was looking for the forward cutting pass but often there was little on.

 

Romeu and Hojbjerg were solid enough but against such limited opposition we could perhaps have used Lemina's flair.

 

Overall I didn't think the CBs had bad games. Stephens will rightly be criticised for the sloppy pass that led to their second but otherwise was ok. But collectively they should have stopped the first goal. Wasn't McCarthy's best game, especially with distribution and I sense his confidence isn't what it was. But I can't see that he was directly to blame for either goal.

 

Valery was excellent and my MOTM. His run and shot near the end should have brought a goal. Bertrand's return was a surprise to me and I didn't think he was better than Targett. He did get in a couple of crosses but at other times seemed hesitant: maybe rustiness. I've seen a theory that Redmond doesn't play as well when Bertrand is in the team. Not sure about that, but on the basis of yesterday, there could be something in it.

 

Sorry to say that Elyounoussi added nothing except a foul that eventually led to them scoring. Hope we can see Sims instead very soon.

 

Overall, I'm gutted and as depressed after a game as I have been in a long time. The squad is thin and without Ings, Armstrong and Lemina the creativity and movement isn't good enough. But we weren't that bad and were clearly the better team. But that counts for nothing if you can't score and we were beaten by a classic smash and grab. If we'd not given away the stupid second goal, I would have taken positives: fighting back to get a point but to have relief turn to despair so abruptly was the real killer.

 

It would have been great to have strengthened the squad in January, but I'm a realist and don't blame the club. I know targets were identified but if clubs are reluctant to sell it barely makes sense to pay way over the odds. What has happened before is we've been refused principal targets then wasted money on panic buys of dubious quality, and we're still paying for that now.

 

I think we have got the players and manager to survive but Hasenhüttl has now got a job on his hands: he built yesterday up massively and has to deal with the aftermath. I'm also praying for no more injuries.

 

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The last two results have been killers for us, without question.

 

We could have pulled ourselves away, but now we're in the thick of it until the final weekend I'd have thought.

 

Really lazy first half, lack of intent, lack of confidence to move the ball quicker. We had a few passengers out there which didn't help the situation.

 

Hoj returned to the bad Hoj, game seemed to pass Romeu and Prowse by. Bertrand looked like he'd forgotten how to play. Stephens was edgy most of the game and then did the inevitable (he's not good enough). Long was horrific, like beyond bad. Really, really painful to watch someone like him try to play football.

 

Redmond ran around a lot but didn't contribute, seems to be going back into blind allies again - but he was our most threatening outlet, unfortunately that doesn't say much.

 

Valery was decent though, which is good as he needs to step up. Now all we need to hear is that he's injured for a few weeks so our replacement RB can come in. Oh, wait.

 

If this Tenerife trip is to sift out the crap then we will struggle to field a team when we return.

 

 

These 2 quotes pretty much cover it. Valery was indeed Southampton's best player.

 

In the past, I have made a case for Shane Long, on the basis of his possessing the twin attributes of running like a gazelle and leaping like a salmon, both of which now seem to have deserted him. He was shocking yesterday.

 

It appears to me that Hassenhüttl's philosophy needs both Ings and Redmond on the pitch together, the combination really stretches the opposition. With either one missing, the other is relatively ineffective. Premiership survival may well rest on the availability of Danny Ings, which, given the decline in both his form and fitness since his arrival in the summer, is troubling indeed. A crocked Monsieur Ings may well see Southampton eating at the Championship table next season. For those who purport to crave relegation, do you appreciate how difficult it is to climb out of that league? It is brilliant to watch for a neutral, but I would not want a dog in that fight.

 

Some credit must go to Neil Warnock; Cardiff really are the worst footballing team I have seen in the Premiership in recent years, something of which their manager must be aware. Therefore to be able to set the team up accordingly and snatch points wherever they can should be acknowledged. Their main threat was from the long throw-in for the big man to flick on and then hope to bundle in a goal. I was surprised to see Southampton nearly get caught out by this tactic twice in quick succession in the first half - surely the coaches would have highlighted this danger in preparations for the match? If not, at least learn from the first scare and stop the big man getting his head on the ball, but no, both times he was clear. If Vestergaard (who I thought was OK, not that he had much to do) wasn't able to mark and out-jump their big man, he could at least have sat on him, or something?

 

Man of the match? The BBC gave it to Etheridge, which says it all. I would give it to Gunnarsson, purely because the amount of spin he was able to put on the ball for his long throw-ins was really quite mesmerising.

[Pamplemousse]

So slim down the fu***** squad in the summer when were safe, so many numptys on here , to do that in the January window when were in relegation trouble is fu***** inexplicable, to save yourself £500k on a loan deal but poss lose out on £100m+ premier league money, u do the maths

 

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

[Chewy]

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

 

You do indeed, which is why it's surprising the board didn't back him in getting the forward he clearly wanted. Throughout January his expectation was that we were getting someone in.

[S-Clarke]

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

 

He was pretty clear in that he wanted players in the door, who were more suited to his way of playing. Yeah, he's got a smaller pool to work with, but it's ****.

[beatlesaint]

He was pretty clear in that he wanted players in the door, who were more suited to his way of playing. Yeah, he's got a smaller pool to work with, but it's ****.

 

Yes how to improve a ****e squad - make it smaller, dont add any players so keep it ****e.

[Shroppie]

Yes how to improve a ****e squad - make it smaller, dont add any players so keep it ****e.

Or just keep adding more and more mediocre players through panic buying.

 

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[CB Fry]

Or just keep adding more and more mediocre players through panic buying.

 

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We clearly had been planning the exit of Cadric and Gabbiadini for weeks before the window even opened, so organising for replacements for a similar time would not have been "panic buying".

[Batman]

Or just keep adding more and more mediocre players through panic buying.

 

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why does a purchase have to be a panic buy?

 

 

Mane was a last ditch deadline day signing......panic buy?

same for Toby.

 

VvD came late in a summer window, another panic buy?

 

I thought we had a leading team looking at countless players for every eventuality. We obviously knew Cedric and Gabby were off before xmas.......probably before that.

how come every other side around us were able to strengthen, yet us doing it would have been some sort of panic.?

[danjosaint]

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

 

So hows that worked out in last 3? I will back the manager but maybe the board should as well, 100% agree squad needed slimming down, but not in january unless bringing in at least 1 goalscorer, Gabbi and Cedric shouldve both been here untill the summer,

[Greenridge]

Double post.

Edited 10 February, 2019 by Greenridge

[Greenridge]

Or just keep adding more and more mediocre players through panic buying.

 

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The January window had been coming for, well, 12 months so there was no need for any 'panic' buying. It could have been done in a calm and measured manner with players that would enhance our first eleven / squad. That's why we have a team of people in the recruitment roles.

[Shroppie]

When did we last make a successful January signing?

 

I think there are some very unrealistic ideas about getting deals over the line mid season.

 

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[CB Fry]

why does a purchase have to be a panic buy?

 

 

Mane was a last ditch deadline day signing......panic buy?

same for Toby.

 

VvD came late in a summer window, another panic buy?

 

I thought we had a leading team looking at countless players for every eventuality. We obviously knew Cedric and Gabby were off before xmas.......probably before that.

how come every other side around us were able to strengthen, yet us doing it would have been some sort of panic.?

As a club I think we will have done fewer panic buys than any other club in Britain.

 

This has come up recently and still I can't see anyone naming an actual "panic buy" we've made.

 

We spend entire transfer windows popping champagne corks because we HAVEN'T signed players and "do things a different way" and not being held to ransom and blah blah blah. Literally the opposite of panic buying.

 

Maybe a couple of impulsive buys now and then would stop having shi tfest transfer windows over and over again.

[Batman]

When did we last make a successful January signing?

 

I think there are some very unrealistic ideas about getting deals over the line mid season.

 

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how come every other club around us has managed to strengthen?

[CB Fry]

When did we last make a successful January signing?

 

I think there are some very unrealistic ideas about getting deals over the line mid season.

 

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This year we signed no one.

 

Last year we refused to sign any pacy wingers and nearly went down.

 

Season before we refused to replace Fonte and had the worst second half of a season in living memory with a dreadful run of home games in the stretch.

 

Yeah, not signing people and not having horrible horrible panic buying is absolutely a winner.

[Micky]

The January window had been coming for, well, 12 months so there was no need for any 'panic' buying. It could have been done in a calm and measured manner with players that would enhance our first eleven / squad. That's why we have a team of people in the recruitment roles.

Not strictly true. Most teams will be seeing how they start the season with the squad that they have, with a view to who they want to get in in January. Given that we'd sacked our manager and were in the bottom half of the table, I'd agree that we should've used the window more wisely. But we could've been in a totally different position and doing well, therefore not needed to do much in the window,. But to say we had 12 months to plan for it is wrong.

The issue now is simple, the window is shut, we have what we have, it's that enough to keep us up. Personally, I don't think it is.

 

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[Greenridge]

I appreciate the Club never ever do anything wrong in your eyes Micky and a debate on here won’t change that. But on this you are wrong. Look back at the many comments by Reed about us always having potential candidates in mind, our long term planning and our black box. So all of what I write is infact ‘strictly true’. All of it.

[Shroppie]

As a club I think we will have done fewer panic buys than any other club in Britain.

 

This has come up recently and still I can't see anyone naming an actual "panic buy" we've made.

 

We spend entire transfer windows popping champagne corks because we HAVEN'T signed players and "do things a different way" and not being held to ransom and blah blah blah. Literally the opposite of panic buying.

 

Maybe a couple of impulsive buys now and then would stop having shi tfest transfer windows over and over again.

Like Carrillo?

 

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[Shroppie]

I appreciate the Club never ever do anything wrong in your eyes Micky and a debate on here won’t change that. But on this you are wrong. Look back at the many comments by Reed about us always having potential candidates in mind, our long term planning and our black box. So all of what I write is intact ‘strictly true’. All of it.

Yes. I'm sure we had targets. But if we were interested, it's likely that they were at clubs doing well. Whilst we're languishing where we are now, how many offers are we getting to buy (not loan) any of our players? And clubs doing well looking for promotion/cups aren't going to let go of prize assets.

 

I know there are those who think anyone is buyable if you pay enough but that's a huge risk, even if it works.

 

We're paying the penalty for bad buys, inflated salaries and over-long contracts.

 

Don't get me wrong. I would have loved to see us sign a top striker but I can actually see the problems: would they want to come, would their club release them and if so, at what inflated price? Not to mention wages!

 

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[Wes Tender]

Following the knee-jerk reactions yesterday evening, the cold light of day the morning after has some more level-headed opinions surfacing. I believe that the loss against Cardiff was mainly due to them setting themselves well tactically to park the bus and stop us playing to our strengths on the one hand, and us being short of the players with the ability to break down their defensive wall. We on the other hand, didn't set ourselves up to maximise our potential to hit them more quickly and harder, so from that perspective we played into their hands. But there aren't many teams who will set themselves up so negatively, and we will have better creative chances from more open play in matches against those other teams, even the handful of top clubs.

 

We have a couple of weeks break for Hasenhuttl to mull over his plans for getting us away from the relegation zone. Hopefully several things will have become clear from the last few matches where we should have been picking up 3 points from clubs around us in the table, but failed to do so. Firstly, the past couple of matches (and Derby in the Cup) demonstrate that we need to learn how to see out a match in which we have an advantage. We need to keep possession, cut out the silly mistakes and remain calm and focussed under pressure. Secondly, we should not be too timid defensively at home when playing against all but the top half dozen teams. Thirdly, it should be evident that certain players just aren't good enough and shouldn't be picked to start or come on as substitutes unless there is no other choice. Long and Elyounoussi primarily in that category.

 

Two weeks will hopefully allow Bertrand to be coached into Hasenhuttl's game plan, also Yoshida to provide an alternative to the error prone Stephens, valuable time towards the recovery of Ings, Lemina, Obafemi, Armstrong? and an opportunity to have a closer look at some of the youngsters and fringe players.

[Micky]

I appreciate the Club never ever do anything wrong in your eyes Micky and a debate on here won’t change that. But on this you are wrong. Look back at the many comments by Reed about us always having potential candidates in mind, our long term planning and our black box. So all of what I write is infact ‘strictly true’. All of it.

Where you make that assumption from I've no idea. I may not debate as vehemently as some on here, but there is no way that I think the club has done no wrong. 3 years of decline is pretty damning evidence that those at the top have made some quite monumental cock ups. Despite the much vaunted 'black box' crap that the club likes to spout I very much doubt that our scouting procedures are very much different or better than any other club in the league. All clubs will have lists of players that they are interested in / would like to buy, but whether that's possibly in a January window is not so black and white.

The club have made tons of mistakes over the years, I'm not going to try to deny that, but in the 'big picture', we are the club I support, and I will do in the Championship next season.

 

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[CB Fry]

Like Carrillo?

 

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Signed a good week before deadline day, incredibly well known by the manager and clearly tracked for a while. And we desperately needed forwards at that point. If anything we signed him six months late because he was the striker we needed in the summer.

 

So the opposite of a panic buy.

[shurlock]

Following the knee-jerk reactions yesterday evening, the cold light of day the morning after has some more level-headed opinions surfacing. I believe that the loss against Cardiff was mainly due to them setting themselves well tactically to park the bus and stop us playing to our strengths on the one hand, and us being short of the players with the ability to break down their defensive wall. We on the other hand, didn't set ourselves up to maximise our potential to hit them more quickly and harder, so from that perspective we played into their hands. But there aren't many teams who will set themselves up so negatively, and we will have better creative chances from more open play in matches against those other teams, even the handful of top clubs.

 

We have a couple of weeks break for Hasenhuttl to mull over his plans for getting us away from the relegation zone. Hopefully several things will have become clear from the last few matches where we should have been picking up 3 points from clubs around us in the table, but failed to do so. Firstly, the past couple of matches (and Derby in the Cup) demonstrate that we need to learn how to see out a match in which we have an advantage. We need to keep possession, cut out the silly mistakes and remain calm and focussed under pressure. Secondly, we should not be too timid defensively at home when playing against all but the top half dozen teams. Thirdly, it should be evident that certain players just aren't good enough and shouldn't be picked to start or come on as substitutes unless there is no other choice. Long and Elyounoussi primarily in that category.

 

Two weeks will hopefully allow Bertrand to be coached into Hasenhuttl's game plan, also Yoshida to provide an alternative to the error prone Stephens, valuable time towards the recovery of Ings, Lemina, Obafemi, Armstrong? and an opportunity to have a closer look at some of the youngsters and fringe players.

 

How should we have done that with the players at our disposal?

[Dalek2003]

Where you make that assumption from I've no idea. I may not debate as vehemently as some on here, but there is no way that I think the club has done no wrong. 3 years of decline is pretty damning evidence that those at the top have made some quite monumental cock ups. Despite the much vaunted 'black box' crap that the club likes to spout I very much doubt that our scouting procedures are very much different or better than any other club in the league. All clubs will have lists of players that they are interested in / would like to buy, but whether that's possibly in a January window is not so black and white.

The club have made tons of mistakes over the years, I'm not going to try to deny that, but in the 'big picture', we are the club I support, and I will do in the Championship next season.

 

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Hang on a minute, '3 years of decline' I was predicting and giving reasons for that decline THREE years ago and was vilified and lambasted. I think some apologies are due.

[Shroppie]

How should we have done that with the players at our disposal?

Although we struggled, we made more than enough chances to win. Twice in the first half they were very lucky, firstly with a block that could have gone anywhere and then an attempted clearance sliced into the keeper's arms. Charlie should have finished the rebound from Valery's shot and done better with a header.

 

The game stats bear out how dominant we were.

 

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[St Marco]

A bloated squad was hampering us, Hassenhutl now has a smaller pool of players to work with which will make it easier for him to coach and improve them. That's what he wanted, the club acted. You either back the manager or don't.

 

I seriously don't get this argument. It is something a couple of people have mentioned in defence now.

 

Overall as a squad we have pretty poor to average players. We all can agree on that? The proof is in the results we have had with the squad over the past few seasons. We are where we are for multiple reasons but one of the main ones is that the players have simply not been good enough.

 

Now if you have a poor squad, you remove players from that squad, you add nobody. How does that make us better exactly? This I can't get my head around at all how people can think that. Getting rid of Hoedt (which I agree with) doesn't make Stephens a better player. Getting rid of Cedric doesn't make Valery a better player. Getting rid of Gabbi doesn't make Long/Austin/Gallagher a better player and so forth.

 

We have a bloated squad, but January is not the time to get rid of players if you have nobody coming in to replace them until the end of the season. We have removed the ability to give us further options if needed. Imagine we didn't have the option of Gabbi for that Swansea game? We would have gone down.

 

The old saying of better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them sums it up for me.

[Wes Tender]

How should we have done that with the players at our disposal?

 

The solution has been mentioned more than once on this thread. It should have been obvious from analysis of Cardiff's recent tactics that they would park the bus. Therefore we did not have to play with three centre backs. We could have added an extra midfielder to tighten up control there and would have been able to hit them higher up the field.

[S-Clarke]

The solution has been mentioned more than once on this thread. It should have been obvious from analysis of Cardiff's recent tactics that they would park the bus. Therefore we did not have to play with three centre backs. We could have added an extra midfielder to tighten up control there and would have been able to hit them higher up the field.

 

So that goes back to the same question - who was this extra midfielder we could have deployed in there?

 

Slattery? I don't think he'd have had the desired effect if I'm honest.

 

We needed an Armstrong type out there, then we could have reverted to the extra midfielder. We didn't have the players to play that way yesterday.

[Batman]

So that goes back to the same question - who was this extra midfielder we could have deployed in there?

 

Slattery? I don't think he'd have had the desired effect if I'm honest.

 

We needed an Armstrong type out there, then we could have reverted to the extra midfielder. We didn't have the players to play that way yesterday.

 

slimmed down squad, innit

[S-Clarke]

slimmed down squad, innit

 

To be fair the lack of options in midfield isn't down to a slimmed down squad. We've got injuries to Lemina and Armstrong who'd both be in there, so with Romeu, Hojberjg and JWP I think that's one area we have options.

 

The less said about up front and attack the better though.

[Shroppie]

The solution has been mentioned more than once on this thread. It should have been obvious from analysis of Cardiff's recent tactics that they would park the bus. Therefore we did not have to play with three centre backs. We could have added an extra midfielder to tighten up control there and would have been able to hit them higher up the field.

I didn't think we looked more dangerous when Vestergaard went off and I wonder if 3 CBs would have stopped their second?

 

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[Shroppie]

So that goes back to the same question - who was this extra midfielder we could have deployed in there?

 

Slattery? I don't think he'd have had the desired effect if I'm honest.

 

We needed an Armstrong type out there, then we could have reverted to the extra midfielder. We didn't have the players to play that way yesterday.

What's wrong with Armstrong?

 

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[Batman]

What's wrong with Armstrong?

 

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had/has a calf injury, apparently

will be back next game

[Saint Billy]

So slim down the fu***** squad in the summer when were safe, so many numptys on here , to do that in the January window when were in relegation trouble is fu***** inexplicable, to save yourself £500k on a loan deal but poss lose out on £100m+ premier league money, u do the maths

 

Absolutely!!!.

 

January, in a relegation dog fight and we choose to slim the squad down, how many more mistakes can this bunch make. Oh, and by the way, I rate RH but he is not immune from criticism in my book, yesterday his team selection and formation was sh*te.

[beatlesaint]

For nearly three seasons now the core of this squad has by and large failed miserably in games like this. All this “cold light of day/24 hrs later” stuff about it not being that bad has been going on match after match in all that time.

 

Bertrand, Stephens, Romeu, PEH, Ward-Prowse, Redmond, Austin, Long - they have all been in and around the starting eleven that have ****ed up home wins that would have eased our plight, but no every single time they bottle it and play like bloody snowflakes.

 

Its not good enough and if somehow we do stay up this promised squad over haul in the summer needs to be major.

[OldNick]

I seriously don't get this argument. It is something a couple of people have mentioned in defence now.

 

Overall as a squad we have pretty poor to average players. We all can agree on that? The proof is in the results we have had with the squad over the past few seasons. We are where we are for multiple reasons but one of the main ones is that the players have simply not been good enough.

 

Now if you have a poor squad, you remove players from that squad, you add nobody. How does that make us better exactly? This I can't get my head around at all how people can think that. Getting rid of Hoedt (which I agree with) doesn't make Stephens a better player. Getting rid of Cedric doesn't make Valery a better player. Getting rid of Gabbi doesn't make Long/Austin/Gallagher a better player and so forth.

 

We have a bloated squad, but January is not the time to get rid of players if you have nobody coming in to replace them until the end of the season. We have removed the ability to give us further options if needed. Imagine we didn't have the option of Gabbi for that Swansea game? We would have gone down.

 

The old saying of better to have them and not need them than need them and not have them sums it up for me.

I wonder if you don't get the sense that the club is short of money like |I do. We are cutting budgets everywhere and Iam concerned that there is an underlying financial problem brewing. Les employed 3 managers who were paid of, perhaps 10-15m add to that the purchases of deadwood who are out on loan on big wages. The actions were perhaps not only to trim the squad but also to get our costs down. RH seemed to have steadied the boat and felt we could cope without Cedric and the failing Gabbi. The tragedy has inspired Cardiff to winn 2 in a row, we now have to gain 2 more points than them in the next 12 games. Frankly if we cant then we get what we deserve. Some of the fans thought Puels team wasn't good enough for them, well its not time to turn on the 4th manager in a row, as if we do it says more about us than the club itself

[S-Clarke]

For nearly three seasons now the core of this squad has by and large failed miserably in games like this. All this “cold light of day/24 hrs later” stuff about it not being that bad has been going on match after match in all that time.

 

Bertrand, Stephens, Romeu, PEH, Ward-Prowse, Redmond, Austin, Long - they have all been in and around the starting eleven that have ****ed up home wins that would have eased our plight, but no every single time they bottle it and play like bloody snowflakes.

 

Its not good enough and if somehow we do stay up this promised squad over haul in the summer needs to be major.

 

I'd say it needs to be an 80% overhaul at least. Only guys I'd keep around from the starting 11 yesterday are Jan, Hojberjg, JWP, Vesterguard and a few of the young lads (Valery/Slattery etc). The rest can just do one as far as I'm concenered. As you've said, the majority of these guys have been losers for far too long under 4 different managers and coaching setups.