Saints 1 Cardiff City 2 post match dissection

[Jonnyboy]

I enjoyed Ward-Prowse headbutting the ground in frustration at the end when they scored, looked painful.

[stknowle]

Another thing, I though the crowd were very, very poor again.

 

No doubt someone will blame the position of the away fans for 95% of our fans sitting there in silence for 90 minutes.

 

It always seems flat these days. Even walking to the ground there's no real sense of anticipation, no buzz. And leaving it's just shrug of the shoulder resignation.

[beatlesaint]

To all the people who:

defended the January transfer window

posted know it all and condescending posts aimed towards those of us not comfortable seeing Gabbi and Cedric leave only to be replaced by absolutely nobody.

To those that insisted streamlining the squad now, in January and in the middle of a relegation scrap was the right thing to do instead of waiting until the summer.

To those that just would not grasp that the manager was left with limited choices in a bare bones squad and thought that was fine.....

 

Welcome to reality ! We are bottom three, our next five/six fixtures look very awkward, even if the team play ****e the majority have to be picked the following match. But it’s ok, Ralph is a magician not a football manager and blind faith will see us through cos let’s face it, Cardiff are worse than us right? The Cardiff that have done the double over us. Let that one sink in.

[musesaint]

We have a decent manager and a seriously underforming team. Yes some of them are shi*t*e. Others aren’t. There is no leadership on the field. It’s not just that the defence are vulnerable. We also have barely two players that look like scoring a goal, despite creating more chances than we were.

[Rory Peepa]

Went pretty much how I thought it would. Since Ralph has arrived we've done ok against sides who want to play and give us opportunities to win the ball high up the pitch and break on them. The last three games we've played teams who want to sit deep and either try to counter fast (like palace) or play for set pieces (like Cardiff and Burnley) in hope of nicking one or two goals. We've been found wanting because we just don't have the guile or skill, in the squad, to break down deep lying defences and we are always prone to defensive errors. For large parts of todays game Cardiff barely had a man in our half of the pitch and our players seemed to have no idea how to breach the blue wall.

 

 

The squad was poor before Ralph arrived and that lack of quality is still there. Ralph has them working harder and better organised but they are still in the main poor players. All of which makes the lack of January signings even more frustrating.

 

This.

 

 

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[Dark Munster]

To all the people who:

defended the January transfer window

posted know it all and condescending posts aimed towards those of us not comfortable seeing Gabbi and Cedric leave only to be replaced by absolutely nobody.

To those that insisted streamlining the squad now, in January and in the middle of a relegation scrap was the right thing to do instead of waiting until the summer.

To those that just would not grasp that the manager was left with limited choices in a bare bones squad and thought that was fine.....

 

Welcome to reality ! We are bottom three, our next five/six fixtures look very awkward, even if the team play ****e the majority have to be picked the following match. But it’s ok, Ralph is a magician not a football manager and blind faith will see us through cos let’s face it, Cardiff are worse than us right? The Cardiff that have done the double over us. Let that one sink in.

Spot on. Thanks for saving me having to type basically the same thing.

[Dark Munster]

Shambolic why we didn't at least get a striker in January was madness!

Indeed. And at the very least, not ****ing selling our only one who was capable of scoring goals and not crocked.

[Lighthouse]

Another thing, I though the crowd were very, very poor again.

 

No doubt someone will blame the position of the away fans for 95% of our fans sitting there in silence for 90 minutes.

 

3 years now we've had nothing but awful, awful football.

 

I've been to 6 games this season, Burnley, Watford, Derby, West Ham, Palace and Cardiff. Complete sh*te every single one of them. I don't even have a scrappy 1-0 win against some no-hopers to get excited about. Just checked, I've seen Saints win 3 times since Christmas 2016.

 

So yeah, I struggle to 'get going' if I'm honest.

[washsaint]

Sideways and backwards passing no penitration no one willing to take a shot.

 

100% spot on. I was screaming for someone to take a shot (Hojberg was horrible in this regard) but sideways, sideways, then out to the wings.

 

Personally I thought Bertrand was awful today - and Targett has every right to feel aggrieved being dropped for him. Then again, most of the side were awful as they have been for the last 3 + games. New manager bounce has come and gone.

 

When SHane Long is starting you know we have real issues - it's come to something when I am hoping Obafemi will be fit to start the next game. Long should never pull on a Saints shirt again. He was worse than useless.

 

If I were to give ratings they would be:

 

McCarthy - 5 hardly inspiring confidence and his distribution is abysmal

Valery - 7 the one shining light today

Stephens - 6 gave the ball away terribly for their winner but they still should never have been able to do anything. One of our better players today

Vestergaard - 6 thought he did OK but why can he not jump for headers. At fault with Hojberg for their first

Bednarek - 6 not much to do

Bertrand - 5 thought he was terrible. Slow, not getting forward enough and too much checking back

Romeu - 5 terrible game for him. Struggled with the basics

Hojberg - 4 fan favorite but absolutely dire today. An international who cannot do the basics like trapping a ball or passing is a concern!

JWP - 5 too often having to come back to collect the ball as we had no attacking guile or instincts

Redmond - 5 looked bright at times but then at other times simply ran into dead ends/fell over

LOng -2 should never pull on a Saints shirt again. Stealing a living and an absolute embarrasment

 

Subs

Elyounoussi - 3 what is the point of this guy? So slow in thought and movement, absolute joke of a buy

Austin - 4 did not do anything but should have scored

Gallagher - 4 not in the game at all

 

RH - 3 Tactics completely wrong and team selection wrong. Why 5 at the back with 2 DMs against Cardiff? Subs were poor and this was a disastrous result

 

Whether we stay up or go down, there has to be a mass clear out in the summer. The youngsters look far more composed and better than the senior players which is a disgrace.

[Batman]

To all the people who:

defended the January transfer window

posted know it all and condescending posts aimed towards those of us not comfortable seeing Gabbi and Cedric leave only to be replaced by absolutely nobody.

To those that insisted streamlining the squad now, in January and in the middle of a relegation scrap was the right thing to do instead of waiting until the summer.

To those that just would not grasp that the manager was left with limited choices in a bare bones squad and thought that was fine.....

 

Welcome to reality ! We are bottom three, our next five/six fixtures look very awkward, even if the team play ****e the majority have to be picked the following match. But it’s ok, Ralph is a magician not a football manager and blind faith will see us through cos let’s face it, Cardiff are worse than us right? The Cardiff that have done the double over us. Let that one sink in.

 

But don’t you feel proud that these young lads are getting game time?

 

I know I don’t

[Katalinic]

We have a decent manager and a seriously underforming team. Yes some of them are shi*t*e. Others aren’t. There is no leadership on the field. It’s not just that the defence are vulnerable. We also have barely two players that look like scoring a goal, despite creating more chances than we were.

 

There is more ****e than underperformers. Agree about the leadership.

[danjosaint]

It always seems flat these days. Even walking to the ground there's no real sense of anticipation, no buzz. And leaving it's just shrug of the shoulder resignation.

 

 

Even Georgie thompson on talksport on friday was saying exactly the same thing and it needs to change

[simo]

Another thing, I though the crowd were very, very poor again.

 

No doubt someone will blame the position of the away fans for 95% of our fans sitting there in silence for 90 minutes.

 

I thought first half atmosphere was decent second half went flat AGAIN

[Jonnyboy]

To all the people who:

defended the January transfer window

posted know it all and condescending posts aimed towards those of us not comfortable seeing Gabbi and Cedric leave only to be replaced by absolutely nobody.

To those that insisted streamlining the squad now, in January and in the middle of a relegation scrap was the right thing to do instead of waiting until the summer.

To those that just would not grasp that the manager was left with limited choices in a bare bones squad and thought that was fine.....

 

Welcome to reality ! We are bottom three, our next five/six fixtures look very awkward, even if the team play ****e the majority have to be picked the following match. But it’s ok, Ralph is a magician not a football manager and blind faith will see us through cos let’s face it, Cardiff are worse than us right? The Cardiff that have done the double over us. Let that one sink in.

 

Having Gabbi or Cedric playing in this match wouldn't have changed the result.

[Winnersaint]

And how we laughed at the Everton Forum. No different here!

[Dark Munster]

That was a performance that wouldn't have looked out of place at the back end of Puel's tenure. All backwards, sideways, hesitate, backwards, slowly does it.

Valery played well. No-one else was even close to being good enough - against a glorified Championship club.

 

I don't think we've got enough to stay up. The defence has at least one calamity per game in them, the midfield can't create, and our attacking threat is the oh so reliable Nathan Redmond or bust.

 

Hope the mini preseason in Tenerife gives the manager enough time to come up with some kind of way forward. What that could be, God knows. Getting the team fitter can only improve things so much.

 

Bleak.

 

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The root cause of this, going all the way back to when Gabbi got injured in the latter part of Puels' season, is a lack of a goal-scoring front man.

[Tamesaint]

Today hurts on so many levels

1) Obviously lost to a relegation rival (and we're definitely in the mix now)

2) Cardiff didn't deserve anything from that game, they were dreadful

3) we were somehow worse. Sure we had more of the ball, but that's because we had spare players at the back to take the ball instead of up top where we might actually have hurt them

4) Ralph lost a bit of his sheen. We all know long instead of Austin was the wrong call, we all know elianonymous was a pointless waste of a sub, we all know 5 at the back left us short up top in a game we needed to win. Not only pointless but cowardly IMHO. And sure it helps Stephens look good by striding out from the back nicely, but when he can't defend and this play is instead of having another forward, it's rather pointless

5) our captain had a shocker. How many chances to shoot do you need? You have to take a chance, especially when our only 'goal threat' is Shane long

6) just shows how woefully inept we are up top. Our attacking and creative options are basically An injury prone ings , Armstrong and Redmond. With two missing we were always likely to be screwed. How on earth we ended up like this is something the board genuinely need to answer for. Austin can score but can't run, which you'd get away with in a game like today unlike Shane who can't score, and seems to have even lost the ability to run. How bad must Gallagher be to be behind these two? If he's genuinely worse, please sell him.

 

I'm sure there's some more. Horrible, horrible day and result. Doesn't mean we are down, but does mean we need a seriously quick turn around.

I really hope Ralph learns from this. Sometimes you need to be brave, there's no need for 5 at the back in some games. Quite frankly we could have 8 and it wouldn't make any difference with some of the individual errors. We must stretch teams who sit back, and if that means surrendering some possession theN fine. And please, never, ever, ever put mo on the pitch again. An utter waste of a footballer.

 

Couple of minor plus points. Thought Bertrand was fine for his comeback. Not amazing, but ok. Aside from Stephens, most of the defence looked untroubled until that final calamity (wrong end to know who was at fault in the box, obviously saw THAT pass!)

 

Thought Valery was probably motm. Not much to choose from obviously, but given his age I thought he was very good. Will be great in the championship ... ��

 

Agree with this.

[Morse]

We got away with it last year, but even with the improvements made by Ralph H we're still a team who's defence is at the very best lower Championship level. I think our numbers up this time. Pity Les Read wont be around to carry the can.

[Dark Munster]

Having Gabbi or Cedric playing in this match wouldn't have changed the result.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I think if Gabbi had played we would've got at least a point (which could well be the difference between 17th and 18th at the end of the season). Most of us would have Gabbi up front instead of the useless Long. Valery was good today, but if he gets injured/suspended Cedric would've been a solid back up.

[Jonnyboy]

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. I think if Gabbi had played we would've got at least a point (which could well be the difference between 17th and 18th at the end of the season). Most of us would have Gabbi up front instead of the useless Long. Valery was good today, but if he gets injured/suspended Cedric would've been a solid back up.

 

We'll never know, but you tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. What chances did Long have that Gabbi would've finished?

[Batman]

We'll never know, but you tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. What chances did Long have that Gabbi would've finished?

 

He may have offered better movement, he may have not fallen over when the ball played to his feet, he may he made better runs in the box on the odd chance we got wide and a ball came in. He may have been a better sub than Austin and hit that chance first time, like he did at Swansea

Edited 9 February, 2019 by Batman

[Jonnyboy]

He may have offered better movement, he may have not fallen over when the ball played to his feet, he may he made better runs in the box on the odd chance we got wide and a ball came in.

 

*may*

 

But never did enough when here so has been shipped out.

[beatlesaint]

What chances did Long have that Gabbi would've finished?

 

we will never know cos every time it looked like he might get a chance he fell over himself or the ball or just totally failed to control it. If you want to believe Long is a better option than Gabbi would have been then you are delusional

[Dark Munster]

We'll never know, but you tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. What chances did Long have that Gabbi would've finished?

It would've been a completely different game, Gabbi wouldn't be standing (or falling over) where Long was all match. The butterfly effect (or more accurately, the lack-of-Long effect). And no, it doesn't make me feel better, it makes me pissed off that our suicidal transfer window was so avoidable.

[Dalek2003]

3 years now we've had nothing but awful, awful football.

 

I've been to 6 games this season, Burnley, Watford, Derby, West Ham, Palace and Cardiff. Complete sh*te every single one of them. I don't even have a scrappy 1-0 win against some no-hopers to get excited about. Just checked, I've seen Saints win 3 times since Christmas 2016.

 

So yeah, I struggle to 'get going' if I'm honest.

 

It was predictable three years ago and it has turned out so.

[stknowle]

*may*

 

But never did enough when here so has been shipped out.

 

Regardless, he'd still be a better option than nobody. We shipped him out and replaced him with nobody. Jury's out on nobody being better or worse than Long.

[Forester]

A bit like Everton now reflecting on Allardyce taking them to 7th spot but sacked because of style of play, how I wish for the days of a cup final and 8th under Puel. Anyone who has seen the last two home matches and says that they are more entertaining than that season, or any more successful, must be so blinded by bias it’s embarrasing. Other than the top six, the only way you finish winning games in the Premier League is to keep clean sheets. Porch did it, Koeman did it and yes Puel did it. All did so differently, and with very different players.

 

Rant over, back to today, very poor throughout and did not deserve to win (albeit neither did Cardiff). Frightening lack of quality in final third. Was Armstrong injured today? Hoping that we will have Obafemi back as an option for Arsenal and I assume Yoshida will be recalled. Sounds like it will come too soon for Ings.

 

Looking at table this could well be one of those years that you need 40 points to stay up and that looks like a big ask with four of the top six to be played yet. We don’t face Udders until very last game of the season....

[Graffito]

The mugs got mugged. Again.

[Saint_clark]

A bit like Everton now reflecting on Allardyce taking them to 7th spot but sacked because of style of play, how I wish for the days of a cup final and 8th under Puel. Anyone who has seen the last two home matches and says that they are more entertaining than that season, or any more successful, must be so blinded by bias it’s embarrasing. Other than the top six, the only way you finish winning games in the Premier League is to keep clean sheets. Porch did it, Koeman did it and yes Puel did it. All did so differently, and with very different players.

 

Rant over, back to today, very poor throughout and did not deserve to win (albeit neither did Cardiff). Frightening lack of quality in final third. Was Armstrong injured today? Hoping that we will have Obafemi back as an option for Arsenal and I assume Yoshida will be recalled. Sounds like it will come too soon for Ings.

 

Looking at table this could well be one of those years that you need 40 points to stay up and that looks like a big ask with four of the top six to be played yet. We don’t face Udders until very last game of the season....

 

And all did it with Fonte/Lovren/Aldeweireld/Van Dijk...put any two of those players under Hasenhuttl and we'd be banging out the clean sheets again.

[LVSaint]

We can hope that Cardiff's form goes stale soon, that Ralph can learn a bit more from the team today and implement it, and a bit of sun works wonders. Hey ho.

 

Bring on Arsenal. 1-2. Up the Saints.

[John Boy Saint]

Went pretty much how I thought it would. Since Ralph has arrived we've done ok against sides who want to play and give us opportunities to win the ball high up the pitch and break on them. The last three games we've played teams who want to sit deep and either try to counter fast (like palace) or play for set pieces (like Cardiff and Burnley) in hope of nicking one or two goals. We've been found wanting because we just don't have the guile or skill, in the squad, to break down deep lying defences and we are always prone to defensive errors. For large parts of todays game Cardiff barely had a man in our half of the pitch and our players seemed to have no idea how to breach the blue wall.

 

 

The squad was poor before Ralph arrived and that lack of quality is still there. Ralph has them working harder and better organised but they are still in the main poor players. All of which makes the lack of January signings even more frustrating.

Exactly as a mate who makes substantial amounts betting on Footballcalled ot, having made quite a few quid on Leipzig when Ralph was in charge there. He won’t have even looked at having a punt on this game, if he did it would have been loaded towards Cardiff.

[Ultimatt]

1 win 4 draws 3 losses against the bottom 6. We have Fulham+Hudders at home and Newcastle/Brighton away left.

 

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[Cabrone]

I can't get my head around Shane Long's continuous inclusion in the first team. He doesn't score goals and doesn't even look close to scoring so why is he still being picked?

 

If he's our spearhead for the rest of the season we are in trouble.

 

I'd rather play with an extra midfielder, he'd probably have a better chance of scoring than Shane Long.

 

Bad day at the office, need to pick ourselves up and get back on track. But please don't handicap the team by picking Shane Long.

[Shroppie]

I can't get my head around Shane Long's continuous inclusion in the first team. He doesn't score goals and doesn't even look close to scoring so why is he still being picked?

 

If he's our spearhead for the rest of the season we are in trouble.

 

I'd rather play with an extra midfielder, he'd probably have a better chance of scoring than Shane Long.

 

Bad day at the office, need to pick ourselves up and get back on track. But please don't handicap the team by picking Shane Long.

I do agree that if we haven't got any effective strikers, then play without one. Armstrong for Long would have been much better today. (I assume he's injured?)

 

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[Mr Saints]

Another thing, I though the crowd were very, very poor again.

 

No doubt someone will blame the position of the away fans for 95% of our fans sitting there in silence for 90 minutes.

 

I agree it’s flat, but that’s completely understandable for a fanbase that has sat through 3 years of constant ****e. Makes me laugh when Hojbjerg gives it the fist pumping to the crowd, maybe successfully complete a ten yard pass and then the fans will give something back!

 

Many more performances like today and it will get a lot more toxic, probably towards the directors box. Again, completely understandable.

[LaptopSaint]

Danny Murphy and Ian Wright seemed to think we were unlucky and played well.... I'll just leave this here.

[Wes Tender]

Burnley v Brighton was the parallel universe match to ours. A really blatant handball penalty shout for Brighton, not given. Then Barnes gets taken down by the Brighton keeper, penalty given.

[bpsaint]

Danny Murphy and Ian Wright seemed to think we were unlucky and played well.... I'll just leave this here.

 

Based off watching highlights rather than sitting through the entire game like we did:

 

if 40 points is indeed the magic number this year then we need at least 4 wins and a few draws from 12 games - based on recent performances I just can’t see it. Unfortunately all of the teams around us seem to have a resurgence the same time that we did, it wasn’t that long ago people on here were saying it could be the lowest ever number of points to survive this season.

[the saint in winchester]

Sideways and backwards passing no penitration no one willing to take a shot.

 

Yes, this. Today we were back to where we were last season. We clearly expect the oppo to politely part the waves and let us through. That won;t happen. We have zero ability to get past a packed defence. Just back to the defender/goalkeeper and come forward again. Repeat and repeat. We need a playmaker (Lemina?) or runners (Sims?) We looked like scoring when Redmond and Valery ran through their defence. But no one had the balls to try that often.

Depressed as everyone else. That's the performance that signals relegation. Cardiff were poor, we were abject.

[shurlock]

Danny Murphy and Ian Wright seemed to think we were unlucky and played well.... I'll just leave this here.

 

Someone probably had a word in Murphy’s ear about the Beeb’s impartiality rules after his showing in the Derby game.

[Saint Pete]

We're not down yet, but today's result means it's more than likely going to be a battle to the very end of the season like last season. Has to be said it's deeply disappointing that the complacency of the club in the January window has made it even harder for us to get out of this mess.

 

I still think we can do it, but has everyone got the stomach for the fight this time around?

 

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[St Marco]

Having Gabbi or Cedric playing in this match wouldn't have changed the result.

 

Who knows. But Cedric was in the team when we were having our good spell. He was in the last 4 games prior to being told he was not needed.

Gabbi was never given a chance. Did he even start any games under Ralph?

 

If someone said to you right I will swap Valery and Gallagher for your Cedric and Gabbi would you think that was a good trade? As basically that is what happened.

 

I think people forget we struggled last season and survived by the skin of our teeth. Gabbi scored a vital goal which shows he can step up when needed.

Doesn't matter if you think any of them are good players. The point is by losing players and not replacing them with adequate replacements is weakening the team. For no reason at all. To do that in January when you are in a relegation scrap is pure madness.

[mrfahaji]

2) Cardiff didn't deserve anything from that game, they were dreadful

 

 

Broadly agree with the rest of your post but don't think this is true. They had a plan to prevent us playing and executed it perfectly. Aside from the Valery run and goalmouth scramble, how many times did you think Cardiff's goal was living a charmed life?

 

They prevented us playing out from the back, stopped us getting down the wings and basically said "if you want to beat us, you're going to have to play through the middle of us", and we weren't up to the challenge. Sure, their gameplan lent itself first and foremost to getting a point rather than a win, but if there was a side that didn't deserve to win the game it was us for our combination of awful players and lack of ideas.

Edited 10 February, 2019 by mrfahaji

[Sheaf Saint]

Having Gabbi or Cedric playing in this match wouldn't have changed the result.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[JRM]

We're not down yet, but today's result means it's more than likely going to be a battle to the very end of the season like last season. Has to be said it's deeply disappointing that the complacency of the club in the January window has made it even harder for us to get out of this mess.

 

I still think we can do it, but has everyone got the stomach for the fight this time around?

 

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Agree, think we're going to rely on Ings being fit for enough games in the run in and a great escape run of resukts in April / May.

[doddisalegend]

Having Gabbi or Cedric playing in this match wouldn't have changed the result.

 

Probably not though maybe if we had replaced them with better quality players in Jan and played those replacements yesterday it might.

[austsaint]

We're not down yet, but today's result means it's more than likely going to be a battle to the very end of the season like last season. Has to be said it's deeply disappointing that the complacency of the club in the January window has made it even harder for us to get out of this mess.

 

I still think we can do it, but has everyone got the stomach for the fight this time around?

 

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Is it complacency? More like tight ar$ed naivety - the Kreuger, Wilson, Gao team of ignorance and cost cutting.

[Dellman]

Who knows. But Cedric was in the team when we were having our good spell. He was in the last 4 games prior to being told he was not needed.

Gabbi was never given a chance. Did he even start any games under Ralph?

 

If someone said to you right I will swap Valery and Gallagher for your Cedric and Gabbi would you think that was a good trade? As basically that is what happened.

 

I think people forget we struggled last season and survived by the skin of our teeth. Gabbi scored a vital goal which shows he can step up when needed.

Doesn't matter if you think any of them are good players. The point is by losing players and not replacing them with adequate replacements is weakening the team. For no reason at all. To do that in January when you are in a relegation scrap is pure madness.

Don't agree. The squad was too big. It needed to be slimmed down--and still does need to be slimmed further. It was no good adding same quality as we have, if there was not top quality players ready to come, better to stay with our present players. Yesterday was big blow. But we are improving. And yes, Valery looks good to me. Its just a goalscorer we miss and no, Gabbi was not the answer. It's worrying but not hopeless.

[ozzmeister]

Just watched motd (I know it’s not the same as going) but we really didn’t look bad. Attacking intent with redman, Vallery and Austin unlucky not to score. I think if we played the same game 3 times we would 2/3.

 

Yes a fitting couple of results and would have really liked at least 3 points from the last two. However there is clearly a change in team mentality and set up. I think we will be fine, but it will be very close.

 

Still

 

Cardiff (they cant sustain this momentum)

Fulham

Huddersfield

 

To go down for me

[Dalek2003]

We're not down yet, but today's result means it's more than likely going to be a battle to the very end of the season like last season. Has to be said it's deeply disappointing that the complacency of the club in the January window has made it even harder for us to get out of this mess.

 

I still think we can do it, but has everyone got the stomach for the fight this time around?

 

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Agreed. Everyone knows my prediction for this season (although will be infracted if I mention it), and I still think that is about right.