Gingeletiss Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I genuinely can't tell if this is a wind up. You're both absolutely fine with the idea that defenders should jump for a cross with their arm above their head, on the basis if he wasn't fouled his arm would have been ABOVE the ball and therefore wouldn't have hit? If that's the case then Cardiff should just stick in a bunch of crosses which are 6 inches too high. Then they will go over everyone's head but one of our defenders will punch the ball. I can see the argument that a shirt pull is a foul but for the life of me I can't even begin to comprehend what JS may have been thinking. Until VAR gets brought in, shirt pulling will remain. It's too widespread and refs know that if they see one they will miss about 30 in every game and get slated for being biased and inconsistent; so it's safer just to bottle all of them. Visualise your self jumping for that ball, your right arm is rising, possibly to waist height, to add balance, then you get a sharp pull downwards, from behind. Your body stays as it is, maybe even on a downward trend, but your arm is still rising for said balance. As for his reaction, it was one of bemusement I suspect, horror, not understanding what had just happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 (edited) I genuinely can't tell if this is a wind up. You're both absolutely fine with the idea that defenders should jump for a cross with their arm above their head, on the basis if he wasn't fouled his arm would have been ABOVE the ball and therefore wouldn't have hit? If that's the case then Cardiff should just stick in a bunch of crosses which are 6 inches too high. Then they will go over everyone's head but one of our defenders will punch the ball. I can see the argument that a shirt pull is a foul but for the life of me I can't even begin to comprehend what JS may have been thinking. Until VAR gets brought in, shirt pulling will remain. It's too widespread and refs know that if they see one they will miss about 30 in every game and get slated for being biased and inconsistent; so it's safer just to bottle all of them. No. Your arms come up when you’re initially seeking elevation and generating power from your trunk and legs, when you reach peak height, they come back down again and out of the way of the ball. Stephens was impeded mid-movement by Crouch’s pull - akin to image C. It’s basic physics. #mongboarderyatitsfinest Edited 3 February, 2019 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 A moderator of this forum is saying that a shirt pull and a push against Stephens isn't a foul. Let that sink in. A forum moderator on a football forum doesn't understand the basic laws of the game, then suggests people are on a wind up for saying it was a clear foul. I didn't think moderators trolled but clearly they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Albert Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I genuinely can't tell if this is a wind up. You're both absolutely fine with the idea that defenders should jump for a cross with their arm above their head, on the basis if he wasn't fouled his arm would have been ABOVE the ball and therefore wouldn't have hit? Not what I’m saying at all. Stephens’ body position as he contacted the ball with his head, was altered from the usual or textbook position because a canny, experienced player was pulling his shirt from behind and knocking him off balance as they both leaped for the ball. With both his feet off the ground, it would not be extremely hard for anyone to twist Stephens out of position and upset his balance, let alone an experienced 6’8 forward who once scored a goal for England at the World Cup while using a Trinidad and Tobago defender’s ponytail like a playground climbing rope. This was why Stephens was in such a strange position with his arm up as he headed the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Anyone recall a match in the last century against Villa when Crouch should have gone to the corner to run off some time but chose to centre it and Villa won the ball, went down our end and inevitably scored? Long did almost a similar piece of stupidity and could have gone into the corner but got robbed and the centre led to their 'non-penalty. Gave away two precious points. Yes, I remember that very well, stupid Crouch tried to score and shot right at the keeper who easily saved, next thing you know Aston Villa equalised at the other end. As you say, it cost us 2 points and we were RELEGATED that season. (Prutton shoving the ref and getting banned for 10 games didn't help either.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singapore Saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Going back to the first 'penalty' (I didn't think it was). Barnes played the ball away from McCarthy, who was diving at it, then ran across him leaving his foot there, and was bought down. Two things the ref will take into account, first, was the ball under control, imo, no. Second, could Barnes have avoided McCarthy, imo, yes, he could of jumped over him. So my conclusion, is that Barnes went down on purpose, looking for a penalty. All these highly paid young men are cheats, they all do it. Shaking hands before hand (fairplay) is a joke. Bang on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I don’t know what game some of you divs were watching. Both were nailed on pens, we got lucky with the first we didn’t with the second. Yes you could argue Stephens was fouled but it still wouldn’t have made him stick is arm above his head, was a stupid thing to do with 30 seconds left, a ridiculous thing to do and have the ref a chance to make up for his earlier error. A decent point but to draw after getting ourselves in a winning position feels like a defeat. Two massive games ahead and six points are Vital. Probably the most sensible post you have made for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 All well and good suggesting Stephens incident wasn’t a pen, the first one with Barnes absolutely was. Had that been given, I could not imagine us getting a point. A good point IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 A moderator of this forum is saying that a shirt pull and a push against Stephens isn't a foul. Let that sink in. A forum moderator on a football forum doesn't understand the basic laws of the game, then suggests people are on a wind up for saying it was a clear foul. I didn't think moderators trolled but clearly they do. This is a bit dramatic, he's just got an opinion that's all. He's a volunteer football board moderator not a monk living to some sort of higher moral code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 All well and good suggesting Stephens incident wasn’t a pen, the first one with Barnes absolutely was. Had that been given, I could not imagine us getting a point. A good point IMO You think, because you have posted this several times, it makes you right, but as you're wrong about most things, I think I will bow to the judgement of the Referee, the Linesman, and the Laws, governing football, all who said it was simulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 You think, because you have posted this several times, it makes you right, but as you're wrong about most things, I think I will bow to the judgement of the Referee, the Linesman, and the Laws, governing football, all who said it was simulation.Maradona's first goal against us at Mexico 86 was fine according to you, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 All well and good suggesting Stephens incident wasn’t a pen, the first one with Barnes absolutely was. Had that been given, I could not imagine us getting a point. A good point IMO The first one was a pen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 The first one was a pen. One of the more blatant ones at that. We dodged a bullet there until 30 seconds from the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I don’t know what game some of you divs were watching. Both were nailed on pens, we got lucky with the first we didn’t with the second. Yes you could argue Stephens was fouled but it still wouldn’t have made him stick is arm above his head, was a stupid thing to do with 30 seconds left, a ridiculous thing to do and have the ref a chance to make up for his earlier error. A decent point but to draw after getting ourselves in a winning position feels like a defeat. Two massive games ahead and six points are Vital. What do you mean you could argue that Stephens was fouled? Crouch had a fistful of shirt which needs no arguing, it’s a foul according to the rules of the game. You ****ing div. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 They were both very clear penalties. Some of you need to remove your red and white glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 No it wasn't. Barnes was already falling over before he reached McCarthy. He then left a trailing leg so it would be caught. That is why he was rightfully booked for simulation. For the second one Crouch is clearly pulling Stephens shirt. When jumping you use your arms for leverage and being pulled like that is going to move them from where you intended. It should have been a free kick to Saints for the shirt pull on Stephens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 No it wasn't. Barnes was already falling over before he reached McCarthy. He then left a trailing leg so it would be caught. That is why he was rightfully booked for simulation. For the second one Crouch is clearly pulling Stephens shirt. When jumping you use your arms for leverage and being pulled like that is going to move them from where you intended. It should have been a free kick to Saints for the shirt pull on Stephens! You would if been ok with the first one not being given at St Mary’s if that was Redmond taken out by the opponents keeper would you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Yes, I remember that very well, stupid Crouch tried to score and shot right at the keeper who easily saved, next thing you know Aston Villa equalised at the other end. As you say, it cost us 2 points and we were RELEGATED that season. (Prutton shoving the ref and getting banned for 10 games didn't help either.) You don't remember it that well because it was against Everton, not Aston Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 All well and good suggesting Stephens incident wasn’t a pen, the first one with Barnes absolutely was. Had that been given, I could not imagine us getting a point. A good point IMO Of course it would have been completely out of the question that we'd have equalised if we went 1-0 down against a team that are right next to us in the table. A bit like when we failed to equalise against Crystal Palace on Wednesday. Or when we failed to equalise against Burnley away last season when, at the time, they were a far better team than us. Bit of course, totally unimaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Nice tug on the shirt there Crouchie... The proof is right here in front of your eyes as to why it shouldn't have been a penalty and still some of you dinlos think it was ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 All well and good suggesting Stephens incident wasn’t a pen, the first one with Barnes absolutely was. Had that been given, I could not imagine us getting a point. A good point IMOI've watched the Barnes one several times now and, although I don't agree it was simulation I'm not totally sure it was a foul either. McCarthy dived to play the ball, Barnes pushed it past him, but out of control, then collided with McCarthy's legs. Contact, yes, and possibly a penalty but it's also arguably just a collision. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I've watched the Barnes one several times now and, although I don't agree it was simulation I'm not totally sure it was a foul either. McCarthy dived to play the ball, Barnes pushed it past him, but out of control, then collided with McCarthy's legs. Contact, yes, and possibly a penalty but it's also arguably just a collision. Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk Barnes claims, that he never saw McCarthy coming.....bullsh1t. Why did he poke the ball to the right like he did? He knew exactly what he was doing, and what he was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 it was a penalty all day long (barnes) hilarious people suggesting otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tajjuk Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 The first hmmn, IMO the ref has judged he has kicked the ball too far away from him, there is of course contact but is it enough to make him go down like that? not so sure, he is IMO looking for it because he's going too far away from goal, not as clear cut as many are making it out to be IMO, but I would also not have massive complaints if it had been given. I am also pretty certain there was no need for McCarthy to come out like that, he was never really going to get into a good position to score a goal he was too wide. 2nd one is a pen, but of course its also a foul in the first place, so what happens after is irrelevant. VAR, hopefully would have looked at it and seen that, awarding a foul for us. Plus to be honest Barnes is a despicable footballer, I am not surprised refs don't give him stuff, its karma for how he treats them, he should have been sent off for his reaction to the assistant. I am also not surprised Burnely don't get many free kicks, again because they are a dirty, whinging, horrible football team, they give refs hell over every little thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 3 February, 2019 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2019 No. Your arms come up when you’re initially seeking elevation and generating power from your trunk and legs, when you reach peak height, they come back down again and out of the way of the ball. Stephens was impeded mid-movement by Crouch’s pull - akin to image C. It’s basic physics. #mongboarderyatitsfinest Except Stephens had his arm straight up in the air the whole time. It's just been on again on the MotD replay, his arm is directly above his head the whole time. If we didn't get that at St Marys this whole board would be fuming. The proof is right here in front of your eyes as to why it shouldn't have been a penalty and still some of you dinlos think it was ! Absolutely agree... if the ref sees it. You can't go committing fouls in your own penalty box with 30 seconds of injury time left, on the assumption that the ref will see a shirt pull, which is hardly ever given. The ref wouldn't have seen the pull anyway from the angle he is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Doesn't really say much about the game that the only thing anyone is talking about are the two penalty incidents. I thought Redmond's goal was really well taken. I have to say the last two games we've been pretty average. Ralph has made us better by making us work hard on the pitch and be making us well organised, especially at the back, but the squad still lacks much in the way of quality. The subs bench the last two games has been really lacking which makes the lack of reinforcements in Jan baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Except Stephens had his arm straight up in the air the whole time. It's just been on again on the MotD replay, his arm is directly above his head the whole time. If we didn't get that at St Marys this whole board would be fuming. So what are you suggesting then? That Stephens intended to handle the ball? I know he's not exactly a fans' favourite and takes some stick on here, perhaps justifiably. But he really isn't that stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Except Stephens had his arm straight up in the air the whole time. It's just been on again on the MotD replay, his arm is directly above his head the whole time. If we didn't get that at St Marys this whole board would be fuming. He had his arm up the whole time because he was prevented from completing his jump by Crouch’s shirt pull downwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 3 February, 2019 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2019 So what are you suggesting then? That Stephens intended to handle the ball? I know he's not exactly a fans' favourite and takes some stick on here, perhaps justifiably. But he really isn't that stupid. I have absolutely no idea what was going through his head. Just like when he went he went in for that lunge on Townsend in midweek, on the halfway line when there was absolutely no danger. Or a whole bunch of other moments where he just seemed to switch off completely. Ander Herrera's goal for Utd being one. I first noticed it for Zlatan's winner in the EFL and he hasn't really cut it out his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 The 1st was a penalty IMO so we got away with that, the 2nd was some very cute play by Crouch but overall we can't complain - that was a fair result. Main thing was not to lose, have to be happy with points on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 The 1st was a penalty IMO so we got away with that, the 2nd was some very cute play by Crouch but overall we can't complain - that was a fair result. Main thing was not to lose, have to be happy with points on the road. totally agree gutting to drop points like that but a good point earned. dropping points at home to Cardiff, that will be very very very poor and a sign our new manager bounce is over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max_saints Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Nice tug on the shirt there Crouchie... At that point of time, I was thinking JS was stupid to have left his hand up in the air. Having seen this, I can understand why and how he might not have meant it. Do not think it is possible or natural for his arms to continue moving downwards while there is additional downward force from the tug. BUT does not excuse the fact that we escaped from the first half penalty call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 [emoji38] it was a penalty all day long (barnes) hilarious people suggesting otherwise.The hilarity is mutual [emoji38] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloggy saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 A lot of rubbish being written here about Stephens. It was a shame to surrender 2 points right at the death but an away draw against one of the league's form teams is commendable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Like they did in the week and conceded 2 in the last 3 mins? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalklol, against Barnes and crouch or against the Utd swathe of stars forwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Nobody seems to have mentioned that Barnes should have been sent off for his abuse of the officials. Whether he was right due to injustice he should have had a second yellow card. It was a terrible show of aggression Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Nobody seems to have mentioned that Barnes should have been sent off for his abuse of the officials. Whether he was right due to injustice he should have had a second yellow card. It was a terrible show of aggressionThis. If the ref was wrong to not award the penalty then he was equally wrong not to send Barnes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Pete Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Just watched the highlights. The first one has to be a penalty I’m afraid. McCarthy dives right across Barnes path and doesn’t get the ball. Yes, Barnes makes sure he goes over him, but any striker would do the same in the modern game. Penalty all day long. The second one is much more debatable as handball definitely not intentional. But given that ref was probably looking to give something due to earlier error, silly of Stephens to have his arm straight up like that. Would have been better to just let Crouch head it and defend it from there. Oh well, annoying to concede so late, but probably a fair result overall. The next game is huge, everyone needs to get fully behind the team for that one, whoever is on the pitch for us. Desperately need the 3 points in that one if it’s not to be another dogfight all the way to the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 No. Your arms come up when you’re initially seeking elevation and generating power from your trunk and legs, when you reach peak height, they come back down again and out of the way of the ball. Stephens was impeded mid-movement by Crouch’s pull - akin to image C. It’s basic physics. #mongboarderyatitsfinest This is absolutely correct as anyone who has ever played football will know. Crouch fouled Stephens 100% that lead to the error and the penalty decision. No way can you blame Stephens for that. Burnley should have had a pen 1st half, but two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 He had his arm up the whole time because he was prevented from completing his jump by Crouch’s shirt pull downwards. I don't think poor old Lighthouse has ever played football unfortunately, or perhaps just 5-a-side not allowed over head height. He's clueless on this but trying to use it as a stick to hit Stephens with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Nobody seems to have mentioned that Barnes should have been sent off for his abuse of the officials. Whether he was right due to injustice he should have had a second yellow card. It was a terrible show of aggression That is true. Much worse than zaha to be fair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Kent Saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 It wasn't Crouches first foul in the box ! but watching the penalty decision over again I'm not surprised the ref gave it . However their penalty looked like it would be given but ...... Perhaps a new law is required as so many players are looking for pens , several on MotD this weekend . Great goal by Redmond and good attempt by JWP with a header . ( and England won the rugger at last!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamesaint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 That is true. Much worse than zaha to be fair I agree and said so on the much thread. He was clearly swearing at the officials in a longer rant than Zaha the other night. I think that he got booked for the rant rather than for diving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 One good point from yesterday was seeing Gao at the match. Obviously there to see his new players in action. Good news also that he could afford the train fare so rumours of us being broke are just a little wide of the mark. Our football has sunk to an all time low when fans have seen very little to interest them other than a couple of fouls in the penalty area. We were promised high press, swift recovery and lots of fast forward play excitement as per the miles of video footage of RB Leipzig in action. Sigh! Those were the days eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 3 February, 2019 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2019 I don't think poor old Lighthouse has ever played football unfortunately, or perhaps just 5-a-side not allowed over head height. He's clueless on this but trying to use it as a stick to hit Stephens with. Perhaps you could go and patronise Jenas, Linekar and Shearer who've obviously never played either. I however am familiar with the concept of jumping, it doesn't involve waving your arm above your head, even if your shirt is being pulled back. There was no downward movement at all, as there is in figure E of Shurlock's diagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Perhaps you could go and patronise Jenas, Linekar and Shearer who've obviously never played either. I however am familiar with the concept of jumping, it doesn't involve waving your arm above your head, even if your shirt is being pulled back. There was no downward movement at all, as there is in figure E of Shurlock's diagram. That's because he never got to point E. The downward tug of the shirt from Crouch prevented him from even getting to point D. I admire your persistence, but sometimes you just have to hold your hands up () and admit you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disconnect Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 That is true. Much worse than zaha to be fair Yes, posted earlier how I thought it was a disgrace! Should get retrospective action - you can’t go up to a linesman or red and scream swear words over and over in their faces, especially in a Packed stadium!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 That's because he never got to point E. The downward tug of the shirt from Crouch prevented him from even getting to point D. I admire your persistence, but sometimes you just have to hold your hands up () and admit you're wrong. He hasn’t ever been right just a wind up and a right winge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint77 Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 That's because he never got to point E. The downward tug of the shirt from Crouch prevented him from even getting to point D. I admire your persistence, but sometimes you just have to hold your hands up () and admit you're wrong. He hasn’t ever been right just a wind up and a right winge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Kucho Posted 3 February, 2019 Share Posted 3 February, 2019 Don’t know if it has been said earlier in this thread, but why was Stephens marking Crouch and not Vestergaard? Both are more or less the same height and Vestergaard could have been more of a nuisance to Crouch. Shame about the last minute equalizer, but still unbeaten in 2019 (in the league). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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