Burnley 1-1 Saints - Reaction

[Dark Munster]

Ings is pretty pointless if he’s never on the pitch.

Long is pretty pointless if he’s ever on the pitch.

[Chez]

 

Credit to Slattery. He wasn't at the races at all in the first half but seemed to grow in confidence to contribute some nice touches in the second.

 

 

not feeling this Slattery love at all. I've never seen a player do so little as he did in the last 20 minutes. Was must have been blowing out his arse because he hardly bloody moved. Our midfield disappeared and he was a major part of that.I have no idea why he was not subbed.

 

Sorry. I am doing nothing but moan on here, but thats two Burnley trips in a row where we have been by far and a way the better side for large chunks but failed to get the win. Gutted.

[tajjuk]

Disappointed to lose 2 points, but overall a good point away from home against an in form team that are generally hard to beat and were unlucky not to beat a Utd side that had won 8 in a row previously.

 

Plus with Ings down, that was essentially Ings, Bertrand, Lemina, Hojberg and Yoshida out of the team, all of whom would improve that team.

 

We need to go beat Cardiff and Fulham at home now, and that will pretty much ensure safety as we will be on 30 points.

 

Oh and sounds like the pen was harsh as a foul on Stephens, the absolute slating some people are giving him here is completely over the top IMO.

[striker]

Could you imagine if the ref didnt call that handball pk? The stadium would have erupted. He would have needed a police escort to get out.

[badgerx16]

Could you imagine if the ref didnt call that handball pk? The stadium would have erupted. He would have needed a police escort to get out.

That shouldn't affect his decision making though.

[Batman]

lets be honest, they should have had a penalty earlier, which may have resulted in a red card for our keeper (probably not red but you never know)

[Chez]

despite Vestergaard we still struggled with hoof ball at the end of the game

[maysie]

Nine draws now this season, the most in the league by two. If only 2 or 3 of those had been converted to wins we'd definitely be looking upwards than nervously over our shoulders.

[Shroppie]

Could you imagine if the ref didnt call that handball pk? The stadium would have erupted. He would have needed a police escort to get out.

But if he'd been strong enough he'd have given us the free kick, which would have been correct.

 

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[foxy9143]

I agree. Stephens had his arm up above his head and the ref was entitled to say it was in an unnatural position and thereby stopped the header becoming a danger. Gutted but a point’s a point.

[OldNick]

The few snippets of the game ive seen shows Burnley should have had a pen in the first half. If they had gone 1 up there is no way that we 2ould have got a point.

[Shroppie]

I agree. Stephens had his arm up above his head and the ref was entitled to say it was in an unnatural position and thereby stopped the header becoming a danger. Gutted but a point’s a point.

But he was also entitled to say that Crouch had both hands on Stephens' shoulders holding him down, which should have been a free kick.

 

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[Shroppie]

The few snippets of the game ive seen shows Burnley should have had a pen in the first half. If they had gone 1 up there is no way that we 2ould have got a point.

I can see no logic in that whatsoever.

 

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[OldNick]

I can see no logic in that whatsoever.

 

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Im not surprised, if you think that had we gone 1 down we would have got back against a team like Burnley then fair play. We created very little it seems. Burnley would have closed shop.

[derry]

It was a poor game. Long is a ****ing idiot not going for the corner and going down. When we were ahead in the last minute we have to be ruthless. Throw ins down the line and concentrate on the corners. We play like a team with peanuts for brains. Crouch should have got nowhere near the ball. At least two players, as he was the target should have blocked him off. The penalty was nonsense because Stephens was facing the ball which was over his head, Crouch was behind him and headed the ball back onto his arm. Stephens never even saw the ball. Barnes made no effort to avoid the goalkeeper and took a heavy touch then just ran into McCarthy who was late rather than going after the ball he could easily have jumped over McCarthy.

[Badger]

Im not surprised, if you think that had we gone 1 down we would have got back against a team like Burnley then fair play. We created very little it seems. Burnley would have closed shop.

 

As most teams are able to. We -and I believe Fulham - are the exceptions. In fact we have excelled at this for a few seasons now.

[simo]

not feeling this Slattery love at all. I've never seen a player do so little as he did in the last 20 minutes. Was must have been blowing out his arse because he hardly bloody moved. Our midfield disappeared and he was a major part of that.I have no idea why he was not subbed.

 

Sorry. I am doing nothing but moan on here, but thats two Burnley trips in a row where we have been by far and a way the better side for large chunks but failed to get the win. Gutted.

 

Taters said he was cutting out a lot of balls and winning tackles second half from what I heard ?

[Shroppie]

On my way home. Overall a good performance ruined by poor game management at the end. Long had the chance to boot a clearance into the corner but chose to try to get a free kick. We could have killed the game off there.

 

Hard to say we were robbed, although Stephens was fouled before the pen, as the McCarthy incident was at least marginal.

 

Disappointed that we lost two points but livid at Bournemouth at being so pathetic.

 

We need a win next week. Who's playing up front? Forster?

 

 

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[VectisSaint]

Taters said he was cutting out a lot of balls and winning tackles second half from what I heard ?

 

Was getting good review for his second half performance. May have been lucky not to have been red carded at the start. Looked good when he came on before as well. One of the better prospects to be fair. Apart from the rash challenge doesn't look overawed unlike Johnson and initially Valery.

[Wes Tender]

A decent point gained in an away match against a team who have turned their season around after a poor start, and were showing the sort of form in the past several matches that had them playing in Europe after last season's league position. They suffered the same sort of reversal in the PL that we and other teams do that have the extra matches without the squad size and quality in depth that is required to play in both. Having therefore been poor both in Europe and the league and exiting early from Europe, they had got back to the sort of form that made them hard to beat last season. They aren't a team of stars imported from around the World, they are a team of battlers, capably managed and very spirited and dogged. In their current form, it was never going to easy to beat them, but we came very close.

 

They are a totally different proposition to Palace who have more flair players and carried far more of a threat from speedy players and a more capable and deadly striker in Zaha, compared to the more blunt instrument threat that Wood and Barnes carried. Crouch was an entirely different proposition and made a big difference late on. Burnley as opposition suited us much more than Palace, as without the threat of being hit fast on the break and the lack of being closed down quickly, we could get forward in greater numbers and pass the ball around better. Hasenhuttl had chosen to continue with J Ward-Prowse as right wing back instead of Valery and with Slattery and Armstrong. No Hojbjerg or Lemina, so options restricted.

 

We started quite well and were the better team early on. Ings was one on one with the excellent Heaton, but couldn't get the ball past him. The ball rebounded towards Slattery, who was late on a tackle in the box and very lucky to get away without a card. The Burnley fans were incensed. Ings limped off injured on 25 minutes and Long came on. The best chance for Burnley came when Armstrong misplaced a pass and Woods strode forward and shot high, when he should have done better. Their next chance came when Barnes was denied a penalty when running into the box, he collided with McCarthy, who had dived towards the ball and failed to make contact on it. Barnes could well have jumped over the prostrate McCarthy, but made the contact that tripped him, but the referee Taylor denied the penalty and yellow carded Barnes for simulation. Barnes and the Burnley fans were incandescent with anger.

 

A couple of minutes into the second half, we had our first corner and a goalwards shot was cleared off the line by Bardsley. On 52 minutes, a fine header from J W-P needed a good save from Heaton. Our good period of play produced its reward on 55 minutes, when Redmond created the space to fire a good low strike to Heaton's right which he couldn't get a hand to.

 

Burnley had to pile on the pressure to get back into the game and pressed forward. On the hour, a Burnley header produced a good McCarthy save, but it ought to have been given offside, but the flag had stayed down. Dyche made his move tactically to turn the screw by introducing Crouch for Wood, so the threat would then be from aerial balls into the box. Hasenhuttl retaliated shortly afterwards bringing off Armstrong for Valery to strengthen the defence. With Crouch on the pitch, taking off Vestergaard certainly wasn't the option it was against Palace. Shortly afterwards under increased Burnley pressure, on 77 minutes Barnes should have equalised from close in, but shot straight at McCarthy. Again, lady luck was on our side when a fierce shot from Barnes hit the crossbar. With Burnley pushing up, there was always the chance we could hit them on the break and on the 83rd minute Redmond skinned Mee and would have been through on goal from the left flank had not Mee pulled him back, earning a yellow card. On 86 minutes, Austin came on for Redmond, whether for fresh legs, more bulk, or tactically, but the match was virtually over. We only needed to keep calm and keep possession for a few more minutes

 

There was one last piece of drama though, when Burnley's desperate efforts to gain the equaliser paid off with a penalty. We had the chances to have run the clock down, especially through Long, who should have taken the ball to the corner, or kept possession, but he lost the ball more than once and Burnley kicked it into the box towards Crouch. He impeded Stephens, who had the ball rebound off his head onto his arm. Sometimes the referee might have decided that Crouch had fouled Stephens and that if he had not called the foul, it was ball to hand. Stephens might even have argued that he had raised his arm to claim the foul, but had that been the case, then he has learned that it was not a good idea. But I suspect that at half time Taylor had looked at Barnes' penalty claim and realised that Burnley deserved to have it evened up. Added to the fact that Burnley hadn't been awarded a penalty for ages, he pointed to the spot and Barnes scored to rob us of two points right at the death.

 

To summarise, it was a good point in retrospect and Burnley had as much reason to have won it as we did. Anthony Taylor really annoyed the Burnley fans and manager with his poor performance and it makes a real change for it not being us being on the end of his incompetence. Taylor has over the last few years made "The referee's a w*nker" chant his very own.

[Saint Without a Halo]

Would have taken that before so not too unhappy and 5 unbeaten.

Any point away from home is a good point for most teams in this league!

 

Absolutely right as long as you win at home, ohhhhh

[Saint Without a Halo]

Did fat-boy Austin do ANYTHING when he came on for Redmond?

 

 

Not sure what that sub was about Sims would have been better on the break Austin was a wasted sub he needs to come on when we are pressuring others!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Burnley would have closed shop.

 

Like they did in the week and conceded 2 in the last 3 mins?

 

 

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[Saint Without a Halo]

Duh

Try jumping with your arms by your side, see how high you get.

Then try it again swinging your arms up with you.

Do you ever leave your sofa?

 

Particularly when you are trying to out jump Crouch! Why wasnt vestegaard marking him?

[ericofarabia]

It was a poor game. Long is a ****ing idiot not going for the corner and going down. When we were ahead in the last minute we have to be ruthless. Throw ins down the line and concentrate on the corners. We play like a team with peanuts for brains. Crouch should have got nowhere near the ball. At least two players, as he was the target should have blocked him off. The penalty was nonsense because Stephens was facing the ball which was over his head, Crouch was behind him and headed the ball back onto his arm. Stephens never even saw the ball. Barnes made no effort to avoid the goalkeeper and took a heavy touch then just ran into McCarthy who was late rather than going after the ball he could easily have jumped over McCarthy.

 

Absolutely this .... I'm normally the last person to call for this move... but today it was the only option of any use. We were winning, run down the clock. nobody in support. As culpable as Stephens maybe harsh .... but another 30 seconds would have seen us win!!

[Saint Without a Halo]

Like they did in the week and conceded 2 in the last 3 mins?

 

 

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That was a Manu team coming out of an Eight win win streak not Saints!

[Micky]

Just got home. Rather surprised with some of the above comments to be honest. Thought it was a decent away performance against a really bullish side who have started to show form of late.

Other than Shane Long, who contributed very little, and got bullied everytime he got near the ball, nobody really played badly. Couldn't see the penalty incident from the away end clearly, other than there was a hand very high, but overall I thought Stephens played pretty well. The first pen shout looked stone wall, so I guess the ref decided to even things up.

Shame we lost Ings, but Redmond was once again very good, great strike for the goal. But Shane Long, even during the shooting practice he was shocking, just the way he addresses a football looks awkward and clumsy. As others have said if he'd have knocked it for the corner flag and used his pace (his one good attribute), we run the clock down along the line.

Would've probably taken a point if offered, people are probably more gutted by the manner and timing of conceding, because it really was a pretty decent away performance all things considered.

 

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[disconnect]

Watched most of the match online. A fairly even game, either side could've won it, but a draw was inevitable. Main impression was that Burnley are quite a horrible team. Sad to say that players like Barnes and Bardsley seem absolute idiots - the kind of guys who would go to the pub just to try and have a fight. The way they were shouting and swearing at the officials and our players was pathetic, and a terrible impression to give to kids who look up to these guys. It's a real shame to see people being paid the sort of money most of us can only dream of acting in such a manner.

[LaptopSaint]

I

Just got home. Rather surprised with some of the above comments to be honest. Thought it was a decent away performance against a really bullish side who have started to show form of late.

Other than Shane Long, who contributed very little, and got bullied everytime he got near the ball, nobody really played badly. Couldn't see the penalty incident from the away end clearly, other than there was a hand very high, but overall I thought Stephens played pretty well. The first pen shout looked stone wall, so I guess the ref decided to even things up.

Shame we lost Ings, but Redmond was once again very good, great strike for the goal. But Shane Long, even during the shooting practice he was shocking, just the way he addresses a football looks awkward and clumsy. As others have said if he'd have knocked it for the corner flag and used his pace (his one good attribute), we run the clock down along the line.

Would've probably taken a point if offered, people are probably more gutted by the manner and timing of conceding, because it really was a pretty decent away performance all things considered.

 

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Also just got back and agree with almost all of this.

 

Jack had a good game, and most of the criticism on here is bullsh1t. Couldn’t really tell from the other end if he was fouled, but the ref was determined to give them one last chance, and when Shane Long ended up on his arse off the pitch I just had a bad feeling. Like most people though I’d have taken a point at 1455. Good day out.

O

[mrfahaji]

Because defenders use their arms for elevation nearly all the time. His hand would have been nowhere near the ball if Crouch hadn't climbed all over him and boxed his arm in.

 

Fair argument, I will watch again on replays later as I was watching an intermittent stream on 4G and my battery died at FT. However, from the one or two replays I did see, I still felt his arm was in an unnatural position - it seemed to be straight up in the air (and his left arm wasn’t doing the same). Perhaps I’m wrong in blaming Stephens but it looked more of a conscious decision to put his arm up rather than a combination of elevation and foul. “Boxing his arm in” is an interesting take, you mean Crouch fouled in such a way that he couldn’t bring his arm down? Sounds unlikely but I agree that if that happened then it’s unlucky from Stephens’ point of view.

[mrfahaji]

People are rightly criticising Long for not taking the ball to the corner, but there was also a moment in the previous passage of play (in injury time) where I couldn’t believe quite how bad his ball control was (even allowing for it being Long!) I struggle to believe that people playing football every day for so many years can continue to be quite so appalling with the ball at their feet.

[trousers]

Nice tug on the shirt there Crouchie...

 

[waylander]

Let us imagine that the ref has awarded a penalty for that incident in the first half when McCarthy brought down Barnes - plenty of people thought it was a pen -and they scored. Redmond equalises on 55 mins and we play out a draw. We'd all be fairly happy wouldn't we (*except for Larry12)?

[Saint Albert]

Nice tug on the shirt there Crouchie...

 

 

Should never have been a penalty unfortunately. Clever of Crouch to tug where the ref couldn’t see, but it was still pretty obvious Stephens was being fouled from the awkward way that he addressed the ball.

[notnowcato]

Great result against an in form team. Yeah disappointing not to take the 3 points but we’re still on the up.

[mrfahaji]

Let us imagine that the ref has awarded a penalty for that incident in the first half when McCarthy brought down Barnes - plenty of people thought it was a pen -and they scored. Redmond equalises on 55 mins and we play out a draw. We'd all be fairly happy wouldn't we (*except for Larry12)?

 

Burnley would probably argue that things don’t even “even themselves out” because if they were in front they could have played a different game and won.

 

If you didn’t watch/follow the game live then maybe you check the score later and think “not a bad result”, but when you spend 39 minutes crossing your fingers or biting your nails as to whether we can hold on for a win, it is frustrating/depressing/annoying when you find a way to lose the lead with less than a minute left.

[Gingeletiss]

What a bunch of pathetic, whining, wan****s on here. Excellent point, gutted to give a pen but quite clearly Stephens was being fouled.

 

For those saying he's never a PL player - yes he is. You t***s are too far up your own arses to see it mind.

 

Honestly - it's pathetic. Burnley are no pushover and we never do well up there. Remember they were 2-0 up in mid-week against United.

 

We have 3 home games against Huddersfield, Cardiff and Fulham. Do the business there and we are pretty much safe.

 

 

Bunch of tarts

 

[Lighthouse]

Watching MOTD, both stonewall penalties. Not sure how Stephens’ arm being vertically up in the air is the result of a shirt pull.

 

Need VAR ASAP.

[Gingeletiss]

Going back to the first 'penalty' (I didn't think it was). Barnes played the ball away from McCarthy, who was diving at it, then ran across him leaving his foot there, and was bought down. Two things the ref will take into account, first, was the ball under control, imo, no. Second, could Barnes have avoided McCarthy, imo, yes, he could of jumped over him. So my conclusion, is that Barnes went down on purpose, looking for a penalty.

All these highly paid young men are cheats, they all do it. Shaking hands before hand (fairplay) is a joke.

[trousers]

Watching MOTD, both stonewall penalties. Not sure how Stephens’ arm being vertically up in the air is the result of a shirt pull

 

If the shirt pull comes before the handball then, chronologically, the handball is irrelevant as Crouch committed a foul first? Not sure why MotD chose not to show the Crouch challenge from behind...

[Trout-Tickler]

Going back to the first 'penalty' (I didn't think it was). Barnes played the ball away from McCarthy, who was diving at it, then ran across him leaving his foot there, and was bought down. Two things the ref will take into account, first, was the ball under control, imo, no. Second, could Barnes have avoided McCarthy, imo, yes, he could of jumped over him. So my conclusion, is that Barnes went down on purpose, looking for a penalty.

All these highly paid young men are cheats, they all do it. Shaking hands before hand (fairplay) is a joke.

 

Seriously?!? If that had been at the other end I'd have been screaming for a penalty. For the one that's given Stephens doesn't complain, just puts his head down disconsolately. Both penalties IMO.

[Gingeletiss]

If the shirt pull comes before the handball then, chronologically, the handball is irrelevant as Crouch committed a foul first? Not sure why MotD chose not to show the Crouch challenge from behind...

 

This, if it was VAR'ed, the the ref would give a foul against Crouch.

[trousers]

Going back to the first 'penalty' (I didn't think it was). Barnes played the ball away from McCarthy, who was diving at it, then ran across him leaving his foot there, and was bought down. Two things the ref will take into account, first, was the ball under control, imo, no. Second, could Barnes have avoided McCarthy, imo, yes, he could of jumped over him. So my conclusion, is that Barnes went down on purpose, looking for a penalty.

All these highly paid young men are cheats, they all do it. Shaking hands before hand (fairplay) is a joke.

My initial instinct was a penalty and I can still see why most people think it was a clear cut penalty, but I think your analysis is reasonable. It does look like Barnes pokes the ball too far ahead and to the right and in that split second knew that the goal attempt had run away from him so the best option left to him was make sure he went down rather than try and avoid McCarthy. Seems odd that the lino never intervened either.

[Gingeletiss]

Seriously?!? If that had been at the other end I'd have been screaming for a penalty. For the one that's given Stephens doesn't complain, just puts his head down disconsolately. Both penalties IMO.

 

I agree, but under the Laws of the game, it's not. Scream away, we are not ref's (well some of us are).

[Saint Albert]

Watching MOTD, both stonewall penalties. Not sure how Stephens’ arm being vertically up in the air is the result of a shirt pull.

 

Need VAR ASAP.

 

Without being pulled down by Crouch, Stephens would have cleared the ball with his header rather than heading it against his arm as he lost his balance, and Crouch’s foul preceded the handball in any event. Free kick to Saints was the appropriate call but the referee was probably unsighted.

 

Still, a decent result given that Burnley have been on a bit of a run.

[trousers]

My initial instinct was a penalty and I can still see why most people think it was a clear cut penalty, but I think your analysis is reasonable. It does look like Barnes pokes the ball too far ahead and to the right and in that split second knew that the goal attempt had run away from him so the best option left to him was make sure he went down rather than try and avoid McCarthy. Seems odd that the lino never intervened either.

Also... I reckon there's an inconsistency in Barnes' side of the story during his MotD interview just now... He said that he never even saw McCarthy had come out that far... If that's the case why was his last touch so heavy? If he hadn't seen the advancing keeper then surely the ball would have stayed at his feet?

 

Anyway, all immaterial now. Decent enough result at the end of the day. 3 points versus Cardiff and things will be looking quote healthy.

[shurlock]

Watching MOTD, both stonewall penalties. Not sure how Stephens’ arm being vertically up in the air is the result of a shirt pull.

 

Need VAR ASAP.

 

Without the shirt pull and Crouch pushing down on Stephens, his arm is way up in the air and not the height of the ball.

[Turkish]

I don’t know what game some of you divs were watching. Both were nailed on pens, we got lucky with the first we didn’t with the second. Yes you could argue Stephens was fouled but it still wouldn’t have made him stick is arm above his head, was a stupid thing to do with 30 seconds left, a ridiculous thing to do and have the ref a chance to make up for his earlier error.

 

A decent point but to draw after getting ourselves in a winning position feels like a defeat. Two massive games ahead and six points are Vital.

[warsash saint]

Looks like the massive gamble by our tight owners has hugely back fired already!! Gonna be stuck with the profilic Long & Austin up front for the next few weeks/months!!!

[Lighthouse]

Without being pulled down by Crouch, Stephens would have cleared the ball with his header rather than heading it against his arm as he lost his balance

 

Without the shirt pull and Crouch pushing down on Stephens, his arm is way up in the air and not the height of the ball.

 

I genuinely can't tell if this is a wind up. You're both absolutely fine with the idea that defenders should jump for a cross with their arm above their head, on the basis if he wasn't fouled his arm would have been ABOVE the ball and therefore wouldn't have hit?

 

If that's the case then Cardiff should just stick in a bunch of crosses which are 6 inches too high. Then they will go over everyone's head but one of our defenders will punch the ball.

 

I can see the argument that a shirt pull is a foul but for the life of me I can't even begin to comprehend what JS may have been thinking. Until VAR gets brought in, shirt pulling will remain. It's too widespread and refs know that if they see one they will miss about 30 in every game and get slated for being biased and inconsistent; so it's safer just to bottle all of them.