Summer Transfer Window 2019

[pimpin4rizeal]

It's a fair point. We consistently live within our means, which is fine but it means we have to constantly find the next Mane or VD, and for every one of those is a Juanmi, Hoedt or El Younoussi. We got 75m for VD; but we can't buy players for that price, so we went the 'quantity' route and didn't really get any better for it.

 

When you see West Ham and Leicester hitting the 40m mark on players, it leaves me a bit miffed that we've only ever gone halfway to that. At what point do we start breaking past our 12-15m threshold?

 

This, ^ I know our recruitment takes a fair bit of bashing but can we really expect to keep unearthing mane, vvd types on the cheap? I think this is the biggest problem with our buy low sell high strategy- once the purple patch of good signings inevitably runs dry you become in the situation we have found ourselves the last couple of seasons.

[SuperSAINT]

Not sure where the 30m is going to come from.

 

Boufal £8m

Reed £5m

Carrillo £8m

Austin £8m

Lemina £15m

Hesketh £3m

Hoedt £10m

Stephens £8m

McCarthy £10m

 

HTH

 

Cheers Faz. Realistically, we're nowhere near any of that though. The club is in a right pickle with these big contracts.

 

Players who I thought would be easier to shift (Lemina) are proving problematic. I thought McCarthy would go fairly quickly too.

 

We've effectively sold as many players as we've signed (& the squad was massive last season, and we had about 10 players out on loan then too).

[Mowgli]

This, ^ I know our recruitment takes a fair bit of bashing but can we really expect to keep unearthing mane, vvd types on the cheap? I think this is the biggest problem with our buy low sell high strategy- once the purple patch of good signings inevitably runs dry you become in the situation we have found ourselves the last couple of seasons.

 

Unless you invest more in the 16-19 age bracket as we are doing.

[SuperSAINT]

Unless you invest more in the 16-19 age bracket as we are doing.

 

It's a really smart idea. Like Martin Semmens said in that fans forum: 300k in the youth market gets you so much value compared to fee/wages in the first team.

[S-Clarke]

I think the nature of football and fans in particular is that success is seen as now, what's happening in front of them now. Majority are only interested in what can make an impact today, not tomorrow.

 

I quite like the approach to be honest, give it a couple of years and we'll have a bucket load of saught after players. Which we can sell for lots of money, rinse and repeat.

[SuperSAINT]

I think the nature of football and fans in particular is that success is seen as now, what's happening in front of them now. Majority are only interested in what can make an impact today, not tomorrow.

 

I quite like the approach to be honest, give it a couple of years and we'll have a bucket load of saught after players. Which we can sell for lots of money, rinse and repeat.

 

Exactly & if you can back up promises by bringing kids through and actually playing them it should really gives us an advantage in the future.

[Dellman]

Yes, but it all depends on having a manager who can give coaching and confidence to youngsters: Poch could, Koeman couldn't, Puel tried, the clown didn'e even try. In Ralph we hope

[revolution saint]

I think the nature of football and fans in particular is that success is seen as now, what's happening in front of them now. Majority are only interested in what can make an impact today, not tomorrow.

 

I quite like the approach to be honest, give it a couple of years and we'll have a bucket load of saught after players. Which we can sell for lots of money, rinse and repeat.

 

Problem is the club has been saying this forever - it's not a new concept and probably every club says developing young players is a massive part of their business model. We're not unique at all. Sometimes we're pretty good at it and other times we've not really produced anything at all but during all of these periods whether good or bad we've banged on about our youth system. I'll reserve judgement until we actually get some decent players through again.

[Faz]

Problem is the club has been saying this forever - it's not a new concept and probably every club says developing young players is a massive part of their business model. We're not unique at all. Sometimes we're pretty good at it and other times we've not really produced anything at all but during all of these periods whether good or bad we've banged on about our youth system. I'll reserve judgement until we actually get some decent players through again.

 

So England International James Ward-Prowse, the £17m rated left back Matt Targett, Jack Stephens, Yan Vallery, Michael O’bafemi, Callum Slattery, Jake Vokins, Luke Shaw is not sufficient for you?

[revolution saint]

So England International James Ward-Prowse, the £17m rated left back Matt Targett, Jack Stephens, Yan Vallery, Michael O’bafemi, Callum Slattery, Jake Vokins, Luke Shaw is not sufficient for you?

 

You didn't read the part where I said sometimes we're good at it and other times we're not, did you? For the record, no I don't really rate JWP, Targett or Stephens. Vallery has been OK so far and Obafemi, Slattery and Vokins have barely played so unlike you I can't really form an opinion on them. Luke Shaw was years ago and again, like I said, sometimes we're good at it. Now be a good boy and bother someone else.

[benjii]

So England International James Ward-Prowse, the £17m rated left back Matt Targett, Jack Stephens, Yan Vallery, Michael O’bafemi, Callum Slattery, Jake Vokins, Luke Shaw is not sufficient for you?

 

Stephens is League One level. Vokins and Slattery might be too, or they might be great. O’bafemi has barely played in the top flight.

 

Targett and JWP are make-do players.

 

Valery could become very good.

 

Shaw is class.

 

So that’s one player who is definitely good enough for a top PL team out of that lot.

[Matthew Le God]

Stephens is League One level.

 

I don't want him starting for Saints, but he is clearly above the quality level of League 1.

 

Vokins and Slattery might be too

 

They aren't

 

O’bafemi has barely played in the top flight.

 

I know he is Irish... but there is no ' in his name! It is Obafemi

 

Targett and JWP are make-do players.

 

What is a "make-do player"?

[pimpin4rizeal]

I think the nature of football and fans in particular is that success is seen as now, what's happening in front of them now. Majority are only interested in what can make an impact today, not tomorrow.

 

I quite like the approach to be honest, give it a couple of years and we'll have a bucket load of saught after players. Which we can sell for lots of money, rinse and repeat.

 

Trouble is it’s like a game of snakes and ladders as soon as we start getting near the top of the board we are picked apart and back to square one again

[Faz]

You didn't read the part where I said sometimes we're good at it and other times we're not, did you? For the record, no I don't really rate JWP, Targett or Stephens. Vallery has been OK so far and Obafemi, Slattery and Vokins have barely played so unlike you I can't really form an opinion on them. Luke Shaw was years ago and again, like I said, sometimes we're good at it. Now be a good boy and bother someone else.

 

I’ve not finished bothering you yet. My reply was very carefully crafted to show that since our return to the PL, we have produced a constant flow of PL quality players - perhaps more than any other, I can’t be arsed to find out. Whether, in your subjective view, they are “rated” or not is immaterial - they have in the case of the older players continued to play a significant number of PL games. In any event, your point was not about the quality of players produced, but whether or not we are developing them. I would argue O’Bafemi, Vokins and Slattery show the development process continues.

 

In short, we’re pretty good at it.

 

PS I forgot Callum Chambers. X

[grezz]

So with Brighton about to spend £20m+ on Andy Webster from Bristol City and Sheff Utd about to spend £20m on Swansea's Oli McBurnie, other than Norwich and Burnley, do we now have the lowest transfer record in the Prem? Whilst I accept high transfers fees are no guarantee of success (see Fulham last season), surely it gives a sense of transfer market muscle? I know Brighton's outlay will be as much about Lewis Dunk's impending departure but I can't shake the feeling our ability to compete financially is diminishing even against our lower/middle table rivals.

 

Hopefully, eventually shifting some of our unwanted higher earners will free up not only space but also our market competitiveness. I'm fine with Ralph suggesting we won't be competing in the £30 million plus market but surely the £20m - £30m market is achievable for us when squad space allows?

 

I think it's more about keeping the wage bill down than outright transfer 'muscle'. We're paying for past mistakes and whilst i'd like to see massive signings, I think it's vital we live within our means on a day-to-day basis. Too many teams have been crippled by trying to buy success when they can't afford it.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Don't know if he's been mentioned before but Olivier Ntcham from our feeder club looks like a perfect fit for us

[SuperSAINT]

https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2019/southampton-brighton-crystal-palace-enter-race-for-montpellier-right-back-ruben-aguilar/

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Upamecano still on if we can shift players...

[TWar]

Upamecano still on if we can shift players...

 

How do you know this by the way? I notice you have become a source on this transfer but I didn't catch why.

[Raging Bull]

What’s the deal with the window shutting and foreign players?

 

Can we still shift them abroad after the season starts?

[MarkSFC]

Upamecano still on if we can shift players...

 

What I dont get about all this "shift players first" malarkey is why one transfer of Upemecanos apparent talent is the key to it happening. Surely if he is that good we need to get him in and worry later...even if it means a dead January in terms of ins and even next summer. Another two windows and others will leave more easily than now. Shifting payments by a few months and the cashflow around shouldn't be a massive problem.

 

I so get why we may not get others beyond a CB until 4 or 5 have gone though as other postions are not as important. A CB is paramount.

[S-Clarke]

What I dont get about all this "shift players first" malarkey is why one transfer of Upemecanos apparent talent is the key to it happening. Surely if he is that good we need to get him in and worry later...even if it means a dead January in terms of ins and even next summer. Another two windows and others will leave more easily than now. Shifting payments by a few months and the cashflow around shouldn't be a massive problem.

 

I so get why we may not get others beyond a CB until 4 or 5 have gone though as other postions are not as important. A CB is paramount.

 

But the problem is we have no cash flow now, zilch, nothing. We cannot budge or add any more to the wage bill until we get rid of those who currently polute it. That's more the problem rather than outright transfer fee's, although we do also need that moeny.

 

We're skint, basically.

[verlaine1979]

But the problem is we have no cash flow now, zilch, nothing. We cannot budge or add any more to the wage bill until we get rid of those who currently polute it. That's more the problem rather than outright transfer fee's, although we do also need that moeny.

 

We're skint, basically.

 

Our turnover to wages ratio is high, but not the highest in the league. Why are we a special case?

[S-Clarke]

Our turnover to wages ratio is high, but not the highest in the league. Why are we a special case?

 

Because we have an owner not willing to spend any money. We can only spend what we generate, wage wise and transfer wise.

 

Hence why Che didn't come in until we had shifted Targett.

[MarkSFC]

But the problem is we have no cash flow now, zilch, nothing. We cannot budge or add any more to the wage bill until we get rid of those who currently polute it. That's more the problem rather than outright transfer fee's, although we do also need that moeny.

 

We're skint, basically.

 

Seen the accounts then?? Please share, then we can all understand.

If we had zero cashflow and are skint as you put it we would be on the brink of bankruptcy so I think you are wildly inaccurate.

It could be the case that the bills are now higher than the income, but on the basis we sell some assets or reduce some bills in good time we can take on another loan (which is effectively how you buy players.

 

I think we are being prudent rather than are actually skint.

 

We need several players shifted and one or two in.

[Batman]

Seen the accounts then?? Please share, then we can all understand.

If we had zero cashflow and are skint as you put it we would be on the brink of bankruptcy so I think you are wildly inaccurate.

It could be the case that the bills are now higher than the income, but on the basis we sell some assets or reduce some bills in good time we can take on another loan (which is effectively how you buy players.

 

I think we are being prudent rather than are actually skint.

 

We need several players shifted and one or two in.

 

always a reason

 

the way we spend, it will not be long before we go down. And deservedly so

[Saint_clark]

Stephens is League One level. Vokins and Slattery might be too, or they might be great. O’bafemi has barely played in the top flight.

 

Targett and JWP are make-do players.

 

Valery could become very good.

 

Shaw is class.

 

So that’s one player who is definitely good enough for a top PL team out of that lot.

 

Isn't the point that players like Targett who we might not see as good enough still raise much more funds than they cost which enable us to sign the players we want?

[Dusic]

Upamecano still on if we can shift players...

What sort of fee would we be looking at, as far as you know?

 

Presumably significantly upwards of the £30m Arsenal paid for the vastly less experienced Saliba and what Badiashile is being touted for after 15 pro appearances?

 

According to Bild in Germany earlier this year it would have to be VVD type money:

 

https://m.sportbild.bild.de/bundesliga/vereine/bayern-muenchen/fc-bayern-dayot-upamecano-rb-leipzig-verteidiger-transfer-ausstiegsklausel-59958892.sportMobile.html

 

Unless something significant has changed since then it would appear miles out of our league regardless of being able to flog Lemina, Carrillo and Austin.

[redkeith]

Seen the accounts then?? Please share, then we can all understand.

If we had zero cashflow and are skint as you put it we would be on the brink of bankruptcy so I think you are wildly inaccurate.

It could be the case that the bills are now higher than the income, but on the basis we sell some assets or reduce some bills in good time we can take on another loan (which is effectively how you buy players.

 

I think we are being prudent rather than are actually skint.

 

We need several players shifted and one or two in.

 

Not having a great deal to spend and being unable to take on additional monthly outgoind ( wages) does not equate in any way to being on the verge of bankruptcy.

 

I myself have living on a fixed income for years. I could not, for instance take out a car loan without cutting other things from my monthly expenditure. It is thr Mr Mcawber way.

 

If Saints did keep adding players to the wage bill, even though it was already at it's maximum, then that would be starting out on the road to bankruptcy, but still not be on the verge of it until bills stopped being paid.

[Depressed of Shirley]

Seen the accounts then?? Please share, then we can all understand.

If we had zero cashflow and are skint as you put it we would be on the brink of bankruptcy so I think you are wildly inaccurate.

It could be the case that the bills are now higher than the income, but on the basis we sell some assets or reduce some bills in good time we can take on another loan (which is effectively how you buy players.

 

I think we are being prudent rather than are actually skint.

 

We need several players shifted and one or two in.

 

Its not that we are skint, but that we will be if we have 30+ first team players, on first team wages, and 5 of them at least can't play until the PL list is changed in January. The problem with all of this is the wages, especially if we go down. We would be completely finished if we took that wage bill into the Championship.

 

It therefore makes perfect sense to try and move players on before we bring in others, but as we are finding, no one else will match the wages of players not good enough to get into a team that has finished in the bottom 5 of the PL for the last two years.

[Baird of the land]

Stephens is League One level. Vokins and Slattery might be too, or they might be great. O’bafemi has barely played in the top flight.

 

Targett and JWP are make-do players.

 

Valery could become very good.

 

Shaw is class.

 

So that’s one player who is definitely good enough for a top PL team out of that lot.

 

Stephens is easily championship level. He could do a Mings if gets the right move and applies himself.

Jwp is an England international, hardly a make do player.

 

Shaw is a guy who has wasted his talent so Far. Watching him getting embarrassed by Huddersfield and others last season was funny.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What sort of fee would we be looking at, as far as you know?

 

Presumably significantly upwards of the £30m Arsenal paid for the vastly less experienced Saliba and what Badiashile is being touted for after 15 pro appearances?

 

According to Bild in Germany earlier this year it would have to be VVD type money:

 

https://m.sportbild.bild.de/bundesliga/vereine/bayern-muenchen/fc-bayern-dayot-upamecano-rb-leipzig-verteidiger-transfer-ausstiegsklausel-59958892.sportMobile.html

 

Unless something significant has changed since then it would appear miles out of our league regardless of being able to flog Lemina, Carrillo and Austin.

 

No idea - just know been informed that we have serious interest and that he would also have "some" interest.

 

It may be that the agent is using Saints & Milan as a bargaining chip to get him a new contract - who knows.

Edited 1 August, 2019 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Convict Colony]

Dunno if it really is relevant but last season Orban (capt 26yr old) and Konate (20yr old) played 23 and 27 times respectively for RB.

 

Upacamecano played 14 times.

 

Now they have Amapdu on loan from chelsea in the mix.

 

Also maybe I've missed something but I cant seem to find Upa featuring in the pre-season friendlies so far........

[Dusic]

No idea - just know been informed that we have serious interest and that he would also have "some" interest.

 

It may be that the agent is using Saints & Milan as a bargaining chip to get him a new contract - who knows.

Don't doubt the info but when you see the prices this summer I would imagine they would want easily £40m plus for him, possibly a lot more.

 

No way he fits our budget, we won't spend £30m on one player any time soon, let alone what it would take to sign Upamecano.

 

Only a week to go now and still quiet on serious chat of ins and outs. Window started well, but if it ends without much more its a 5/10 for me - expected a lot more change to the squad.

[qwertyell]

Dunno if it really is relevant but last season Orban (capt 26yr old) and Konate (20yr old) played 23 and 27 times respectively for RB.

 

Upacamecano played 14 times.

 

Now they have Amapdu on loan from chelsea in the mix.

 

Also maybe I've missed something but I cant seem to find Upa featuring in the pre-season friendlies so far........

Also possibly not relevant but interesting nevertheless, Leipzig need to add at least two more Germans to their squad to meet Bundesliga rules, so a couple of foreigners probably need to be sold/loaned out.

 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk

[igsey]

I suspect we'll send a good few out on loan in the last couple of days, and probably some more abroad on loan after the English buying window closes. Maybe one more in.

[ally_uk]

I reckon we are being deceptive we have a few other links to players such as Benoit Badiashile. Could this be a smoke screen for Upamecano I'm starting to warm up to the idea of us bringing him in. I reckon Lemina will be off shortly...

[sadoldgit]

always a reason

 

the way we spend, it will not be long before we go down. And deservedly so

 

Little ray of sunshine, as ever.

[Lighthouse]

Don't doubt the info but when you see the prices this summer I would imagine they would want easily £40m plus for him, possibly a lot more.

 

No way he fits our budget, we won't spend £30m on one player any time soon, let alone what it would take to sign Upamecano.

 

Only a week to go now and still quiet on serious chat of ins and outs. Window started well, but if it ends without much more its a 5/10 for me - expected a lot more change to the squad.

 

I think we all wanted a few more outgoings but it was never really on with the wages we’re paying them. It’s a 2-3 year process really, waiting for contracts to expire.

[Bananaman]

always a reason

 

the way we spend, it will not be long before we go down. And deservedly so

 

Well, aren't you a bucket of unicorns.

[saint77]

Where prices are now so high, teams are doing deals where the installments are spread over a longer period. If RBL are happy with that we can do it....

 

interestingly you can only do this with European clubs and can be spread over 5 years however between PL clubs it can only be a max of 2 years

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Don't doubt the info but when you see the prices this summer I would imagine they would want easily £40m plus for him, possibly a lot more.

 

No way he fits our budget, we won't spend £30m on one player any time soon, let alone what it would take to sign Upamecano.

 

Only a week to go now and still quiet on serious chat of ins and outs. Window started well, but if it ends without much more its a 5/10 for me - expected a lot more change to the squad.

 

I just don't know. Could be posturing etc.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Where prices are now so high, teams are doing deals where the installments are spread over a longer period. If RBL are happy with that we can do it....

 

Yep - transfers are always amortised internally over the length of the contract anyway. £30m over 4 years, £7.5m p.a.

 

We have money in the company - we're just choosing not to spend it until we can get our fixed costs down (wages).

 

Austin - £70k = £3.6m p.a

Forster - £80k = £4.2m p.a

McCarthy - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Lemina - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Cedric - £55k = £2.9m p.a

Hoedt - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Carillo - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Elyounoussi - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Stephens - £40k = £2.1m p.a

Reed - £40k = £2.1m p.a

 

That's £28.9m p.a, or £115.6m over 4 years. That doesn't include the wages of incoming players, but essentially we could sign 3 players to replace that lot, on £70k pw over 4 years with transfer funds of an average of £24m per player - and that's just from wasted money on players we don't want.

[egg]

interestingly you can only do this with European clubs and can be spread over 5 years however between PL clubs it can only be a max of 2 years

 

Is that right? There'll be ways around that - a loan fee in year 1 for an amount equivalent to 25% of the intended transfer fee, same in year 2, then a transfer fee for half of the true transfer fee spread over years 3 and 4.

[northam soul]

Yep - transfers are always amortised internally over the length of the contract anyway. £30m over 4 years, £7.5m p.a.

 

We have money in the company - we're just choosing not to spend it until we can get our fixed costs down (wages).

 

Austin - £70k = £3.6m p.a

Forster - £80k = £4.2m p.a

McCarthy - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Lemina - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Cedric - £55k = £2.9m p.a

Hoedt - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Carillo - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Elyounoussi - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Stephens - £40k = £2.1m p.a

Reed - £40k = £2.1m p.a

 

That's £28.9m p.a, or £115.6m over 4 years. That doesn't include the wages of incoming players, but essentially we could sign 3 players to replace that lot, on £70k pw over 4 years with transfer funds of an average of £24m per player - and that's just from wasted money on players we don't want.

 

Reed on £40k a week - just shows how mad football is and how stupid we have been.

[wild-saint]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need to sell before we buy...but if you want a team to reduce the price of a highly rated teenage French CB down to a level that Saints can afford (under £30m), then convince the other team that it is not the only highly rated teenage French CB you're looking at.

 

surely that would only work of said team were actually looking to sell the highly rated teenage french CB? Do they want to sell and if they do why arent a bunch of other clubs all over him?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

surely that would only work of said team were actually looking to sell the highly rated teenage french CB? Do they want to sell and if they do why arent a bunch of other clubs all over him?

 

Wrong question - the question is "Does the player want to leave?"

 

If he does, then the likelihood is he will.

[Faz]

Yep - transfers are always amortised internally over the length of the contract anyway. £30m over 4 years, £7.5m p.a.

 

We have money in the company - we're just choosing not to spend it until we can get our fixed costs down (wages).

 

Austin - £70k = £3.6m p.a

Forster - £80k = £4.2m p.a

McCarthy - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Lemina - £60k = £3.1m p.a

Cedric - £55k = £2.9m p.a

Hoedt - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Carillo - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Elyounoussi - £50k = £2.6m p.a

Stephens - £40k = £2.1m p.a

Reed - £40k = £2.1m p.a

 

That's £28.9m p.a, or £115.6m over 4 years. That doesn't include the wages of incoming players, but essentially we could sign 3 players to replace that lot, on £70k pw over 4 years with transfer funds of an average of £24m per player - and that's just from wasted money on players we don't want.

 

You seem to be very well clued in on individual salaries and the clubs internal finances. Who are you?

[Scottie]

You seem to be very well clued in on individual salaries and the clubs internal finances. Who are you?

 

Not very well clued up given how many are wrong!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SuperSAINT]

Not very well clued up given how many are wrong!

 

First post in 7 years...

 

You should post more, Scottie.